Irish party falls flat
- 18 Mar 07, 02:04 PM
I left Rome on Saturday night. There was a tentative plan to rearrange a flight and stay and experience this intriguing drink you call "Guinness" in the Italian capital with a big, bald former hooker. I'm glad I didn't.
Has a celebration ever fallen so flat?
The Six Nations may have been criticised for a lack of quality. Kiwis will be sleeping soundly in their nests. But I can't remember a more dramatic conclusion to the competition. In fact, it was one of the most dramatic afternoons I can remember in any sport.
It was all going so well for Ireland - the tries were pouring in. But - and perhaps it was because of a lack of leadership with O'Connell in a suit on the sidelines and, for the last 20 minutes, O'Driscoll joining him with his brittle hamstring -
Decision making? From our position in the commentary box it was easy to suggest that Ireland should have taken a kick at goal when instead Leamy ran. From Irish pubs and sitting rooms the cry will have been the same. But we all know what happened next.
We had an official time-keeper in our trucks, and Roland De Marigny's try (no double-movement, Flannery had lost his hold on him) was actually scored in the 85th minute of a game which had had plenty of injury delays.
Amazing. And in that moment, Irish players and supporters seemed to know that it wouldn't be enough.
Phillip Matthews had to leave quickly. One of the players in the last Irish side to lift the title in 1985, he feared the worst. I passed another, Hugo MacNeill, on a brisk march to the press-room and all he could do was shake his head.
But still there was hope for Ireland.
Some 10,000 supporters made their way south to the city centre to watch events in Paris on a big screen. (Some native Romans will have been deeply confused by this gathering.) And an ever-increasing swell of journalists assembled in the press-room.
The poor Italian scribes who were trying to file their musings on Italy's efforts didn't have a quiet workplace. But clearly they have a healthy disregard for the French and by the time Euan Murray bundled over, they were happily joining in raucous celebrations. I swear one of them tried to kiss me and I explained that we didn't really do that sort of thing in Scotland. He looked a little bit rejected.
But then, a bizarre and heartbreaking finish.
The bizarre was a Stadio Flaminio official showing remarkable courage in the face of 50 excitable journalists by choosing the 79th minute of the Paris game to try and turn off the television because he wanted to close up and go home. His body may never be found.
The bizarre was also, as the French were a metre or two short, the picture on Italian television disappearing. (I found out later that because the game was running slightly over its allotted time, French television had cut the feed to other countries - did it disappear in Ireland too?).
, the Italian broadcaster then switched to shots of thousands of Irish supporters in a piazza in Rome.
This was torture of the cruellest kind because they had no idea now if France had scored.
Finally, the picture was restored at the time of the TMO decision. Poor Simon McDowell. An Irishman who could only respond to the specific question he had been asked by referee Craig Joubert and thereby deny his countrymen the title.
Remarkable. A gloom enveloped the press-room. My Italian journalist friend now looked as if he just wanted a hug. Again I had to refuse.
The gloom there was nothing compared to that felt in the Irish team hotel to where my colleague Craig Doyle had been dispatched. There he found inconsolable players and coaches who knew that France had done it to them again. They had taken a Grand Slam from their grasp in the , then taken the title from them
But perhaps worse than that was the feeling, which some of them expressed, that through their own play and mistakes they had actually given it to France and not had it taken away.
There was gloom, too, out on the streets in the warm Roman evening.
It wasn't supposed to be like this. The St Patrick's Day script would, of course, end with an Irish win and a night of celebration. Did He not hear their prayers in
Keith Wood's shamrock had wilted badly in his pocket. Post mortems were being held. If O'Gara had landed his goals, if they had just hoofed it into touch. If Scanavacca had missed his conversion, if Paterson had landed his. If, if, if........
Supporters, though, are resilient creatures. Even more so when they are Irish on St Patrick's day in Rome and they have plenty of the black stuff . By the time I left the city to catch my plane the mood was still dark but there were signs of recovery.
This near title-miss and the cruel manner of it will not easily be forgotten but Irish rugby is still in rude health and on 21 September they will have their chance for
An amazing end to the Six Nations.
Roll on the
Wales 27-18 England
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Ireland have nobody to blame but themselves really - but for one poorly fielded kick off they would have been celebrating a Grand Slam.
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Ireland didn't deserve to win the championship. Three of their tries came from forward passes which the officials missed and their forwards were cleaned out by the Italians.
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A bit harsh mark....
Deciding the title on points diff seems just a bit wrong te me. It would be ok if both teams had the same number of home games, played the same teams home and away etc etc but its not balanced enough to be fair....
Or am i just an irishman looking for excuses? (we did dcore more tries than them)
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I agree 100% with Mark - the final whistle in Rome should have signalled Grand Slam celebrations for us. We were undone in our 2nd game against France. For me, the first 20 minutes of that match were particularly gut-wrenching. We just didn't turn up. On the bright side, English sides prior to 2003 had to go through the mill a couple of times before finally winning a GS, hopefully Ireland can learn from all of this & come back stronger. I still maintain that we are the best team in the Northern Hemisphere.
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The cruelest of blows but in reality, the loss against the French at Croker had already drained the life out of our six nations campaign. It didn't really matter all that much that we didn't win the championship.
I did predict a Welsh win so I'm pleased about that. Was delighted to see England come crashing back down to earth. Guess Flood, Geraghty et al ain't gonna be the saviours of english rugby afterall. They were quite pathetic. The bbc blog after their french win annoyed me so much. Typically every english man and woman had audaciously exclaimed that their team now had a chance at retaining the WC! Haha!
Ian B if you're reading this, you must be eating one great big humble pie! Does it taste good? I doubt it.
I still maintain that Ireland will beat France at WC '07 and go on to the semis, if not the final. No sweat! And I don't think NZ are "sleeping soundly in their nests". They will be worried about any team that can run 8 tries past a vastly improving Italian team. Our forwards will come good! Our scrum and lineout will improve. Our backs will dance around every team that they'll come up against. Maybe even Irish dance around them...
Great 6 nations. I enjoyed it no end.
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Man. so many close calls. that`s sport. that`s why I love it. roll on the World cup.
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Bridesmaid Today, Bride in October. The best thing that could have happened us. The French fell for it. This time next year we will be watching a grand slam from the world champions.
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But it didn't go flat in the West Indies!!!!!!
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Incredible championship - great for rugby - and even if we (Ireland) were on the wrong side of the final result, couldn't be anything but proud of the team, who play with such initiative and determination (and skill most of the time!).
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The feed in Ireland did get cut, by the way. A less-than-overjoyed pub was staring at a test screen until the sharp barman switched from RTE to 大象传媒, which had pictures.
I don't know what RTE did, but when we switched back a few mintutes later things were back to normal.
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No 3, I'm afraid ireland had an easier draw than france actually-they both had 2 home games, but france had to play wales and scotland, which they would hope to win anyway, whereas ireland had 80000fans to support them when up against france and england, much tougher tests than wales and scotland. Besides, you can't expect to lose to a side then win the championship ahead of them on points difference-that would be much more unfair. (PS i'm welsh so it makes no difference to me either way)
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Very sad finish for the Irish team. I believe they did deserve to win this championship. Yes they made some mistakes, but they still play some fabulously attacking rugby.
Ireland will have learned a lot for this years championship and will come out of it stronger.
The real disappointment from an Irish point of view is that both O'Connell and O'Driscoll are injured and will miss the rest of the Heinicken Cup campaign for Munster and Leinster. Its a shame we wont get to see Leinster great back line (probably the world's best) in operation throughout the spring.
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Also, again for no 3, ireland effectively had a home game against italy, as the itlain rugby board made errors in the sale of tickets. Ireland have ridden their luck as far as it will possibly take the, and although 2nd 5 times out of the last 7 is quite impressive, the fact is that this team are consistently not the best side in europe, and never have been-they will always be number 2 to someone else.
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I find the above article a bit trite and over the top. It somehow paints a ridiculous notion that Irish people need a rugby championship win to properley celebrate St.Patrick's Day. Arse! As an Irishman I'm dead proud of how we performed in this championship. We gave it a great lash, played some fantastic rugby and scored some wonderful tries. If's, but's, maybe's and hindsights do not win championships. So what...the French scored in the last minute? So what...we conceded a try in the last minute? You can't go into the fine details of 5 rugby matches over 8 weeks and pick out "where it ALL went wrong for Ireland" over 2 or 3 incidents. The important thing is that this Irish team is in fine fettle ahead of the World Cup. Luckily we've discovered we've a lot more to do if we're to challenge the AB's or France or Australia come September. Put it this way, it could be worse. We could be English supporters !!
p.s. The Irish cricket team win against Pakistan more than helped Irish people to drink on yesterday and celebrate the feast of the most feted Welshman in Irish history....St.Patrick himself !
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What do you mean by a "healthy disregard for the French"? No bitterness there then. Been hanging out with Mooro lately - he of the he's only French who cares if he gets hurt remarks? Good old 大象传媒. I have always admired the generous way the British have embraced French sporting success over the years. It must be that British sense of fair play which I have heard so much about.
As for Irish fans, you are beginning to get on my nerves. I think you have a good team and do really well given the player base but you beat France about once every 20 years on average and I believe you have never ever beaten the All Blacks in 15 or so attempts. Graham Henry is right, and it pains me to say this as I would far rather see Ireland win but England probably have a better chance of winning the World Cup than Ireland.
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What peeves me off is that we have no proper anthem to reeve this Irish team up. I feel deflated listening to that Phil Coulter dross, 'Ireland`s Call'. All that`s missing is Darby O`Gill and a few leprachauns dancing around in front of the band.
'The Soldiers Song' is a rousing anthem that gets us pumped up in the Republic. It is a tune the majority of the team identify with.
I respect the Northerners and believe someone can pen a decent anthem to bring both traditions together- but this 'Irelands Call' mularchy does neither side any favours. Most people I`ve talked to can`t stand it!
PS Good old Brace obviously laughs at us to hide the embarrassment of his own team. Rugby is a minority sport in Ireland. Nobody I know plays it. In fact I don`t know anyone who knows anybody who plays cricket- yet we`re going to the Super Eights. What about Engerland?
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Some comments in this blog are enlighting, some amusing, some provocative and some arrogant. At least there is a blog, sign of a healthy democracy. I am french and did enjoy this tournament for the fact that it didn't go according to scripts. Nobody has been able to foresee the end, and what an end! England have some great talents coming up, Wales have played some wonderful rugby at times (still the team I fear the most), Scotland can actually have a real go at anybody, Italy have improved so much it looks like they were the pumas with a roman mask, and Ireland have proved that the winners are not the only great teams. Would you guys drop pub-style hostility and enjoy a tournament that brought excitement for several weeks? Can't you drop nationalistic attitudes and come to realise that sports should be valued for their impredictability, therefore no point hanging on to cliches, useless predictions...The world cup is coming and if NZ trashes everybody on their way, good! If Ireland beat France, good! But don't talk of "revenge" as why should there be one? Have we stolen the trophy off them? Is the fact that France wan 4 times out of 6 this great tournament just a flick of luck that will never be repeated and has disgraced the rugby world? Good luck to all, I hope you come to France in a positive frame of mind and don't start building up some feelings that could easily lead to rugby hooliganism. It all starts with this kind of petty stuff. Right now it's only words. Well done to all for allowing me to get my mind off the essays I have to write. Gosh! What am I doing? Only 3 days left! Sorry, must go!
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Brace's comments are a bit sad, needs to grow up, it doesn't help using derogatory terms. Ireland lost the plot at Croke Park but they played some great rugby. However France did not win the title they were given it by the Irish mistakes. I feel for them but as I am also a dyed in the wool Scottish supporter I have bigger worries. I do hope that EOS has not soured the good relationship between the 2 sets of Celtic fans and we can get back to normal in 2008. The 6 nations is so exciting, I hope the WC provides even half of that excitement. I think SA will be the dark horses.
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France would give a couple of Championships to be victorious on the 21st September.
If BOD and D'Arcy can be fit and ready for that one. I can`t remember both actually playing together against the French. BOD was missing this year and last.
PS Brian Carney is just after switching codes to Union. Now we`ll have BOD and God in the same backline!
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I wouldnt have dreamed of posting before coming upon these pages a few weeks ago. It has been fun to read the many perceptive comments and to see how many well-balanced and humorous rugby supporters there are from all countries. (One can even enjoy criticisms of one's own side, when made with wit.) But there are a few exceptions, who only seem capable of puerile gloating. I am a disappointed Irishman, like many another today , but lets not make those people any happier by rising to their bait. Ive watched Ireland for 40 years and the current side is miles better than any we have had in that time. I believe a combined 6 nations table from 2000-2007 has Ireland winning only 1 fewer game han France in that time - yet not a single championship. Hard to take, but there is always next autumn...! I dont think we will win but it isn't impossible to think that we might. And when could that ever before be said of Ireland?
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Ireland do have nobody to blame but themselves. On two occassions they were in control in the final minutes and blew it. These are not mistakes that WC winning, or challenging teams make.
That being said...AA Jones...I am not sure that a side that has its forwards cleaned out by the opposition would be in a position to run in 8 tries...even 8 tries that were forward passes.:)
Ireland had a fair championship. They were inconsitent and need to gain some focus of they hope to advance out of the pool stage. They can beat France...they have outplayed them for long periods both this year and last (which was in paris). However, my fear is they will once again grab defeat from the jaws of victory.
And yes, i am Irish and an Ireland fan...but I am also realsitic to recognise my own teams shortcomings.
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What if Ireland went for the lineout instead of the 3 points in that last minute against France? what if the performance against Scotland could have matched that of the England game? what if Ronan O Gara put away those conversions in Rome? what if Ireland kicked the ball out instead of looking for more points in that last minute? what if France played first yesterday? What if the Irish TV ref yesterday had have thought to himself "I could just say I didnt think it was a try", (it wouldnt have been the first bad call of this 6 nations). Ireland's sporting history is plagued with "what ifs"... and for the most part, its our own fault but heres a few more...what if between now and the world cup we learn to play for 80+ minutes and not just 79, what if we turn up for every game like its an England game at Croker? What if we get a bit more luck come September? What if war breaks out in NZ and they cant make it over for the world cup?..then who knows, Ireland World Champions? Sorry, naaah who am I kidding, more likely we will be leading NZ in the 79th minute of the quarter finals only to see us drop the ball and watch them score..more what ifs..
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#13
So you are going to hold it against us that we have fantastic traveling support???
Ireland have been the second best team for a while now but to suggest they will always been 2nd best is absurd. Thats similar to me saying thet ireland have been better than wales since the 80麓s... ohh erhh wait!
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Couldn't agree more Orbandsceptre. Bring back Amhran na bhFiann! Irelands call is just embarassing. Did anyone notice Drico yesterday during our "anthem"? He barely opened his gob he was that ashamed!
Aurora Snow - talking through your proverbial!
I'm glad we're getting on your nerves. I think we have a fair enough right to consider ourselves strong favourites for WC '07. We marginally lost the championship, were only beaten by a last ditch french try (on a day when our team didn't show up) to lift the Grand Slam, won the triple crown 3 out of last 4 years. Have THE best backs in the WORLD. Have potentially the best Back Row in Wallace, Leamy and Easterby. And you're starting to throw this nonsense about having not beaten NZ in 15 attempts or the French in 20 years at us? This is a team that's coming together at just the right time. And a lot of people will be proved wrong come October. Mark my words ;o)
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Congratulations @ X for the well written observations.
Totally agree with your arguments - and if your essay is as good as your comment here, then there'll be top marks, I'm sure.
As for the pure drama of the matches on this last Saturday: you couldn't have written a better script!
However, it also draws attention to the fact that professional rugby demands a lot from the bodies of the players - and I wish BOD a speedy recovery!
As in any competitive sport, one team will have to be the winner. But as far as I'm concerned, there were no losers. Every team showed more or less prolonged glimpses of skills and passion, of battling strength and flair.
This Six Nations was a brilliant advertisement for the sport, and I am looking forward to the World Championships in the hope of seeing more inspired and inspiring Rugby!
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It was a fantastic championship. It was a great St Pat's day full of tension and sporting occasion. The Irish team have to learn to be an 85 minute team not a 79 min team. This championship showed what are between the Irish and French is basically a kick over 5 games and that is not a lot. That the English are basically crap, the Scots are brave and the Welsh if the get there act together are dangerous. Consider it, if the French team had turned up in the Match against England the English could be even worse off.
Sep 21st will be my 40th birthday I won't expect birthday presents but a win would do me the power of good to start the next 40. Best of luck to all the decent people who posted over the time and the guys who wrote the articles. For the self haters I would say switch sports. This 'Mans' game isn't for those who cant take a beating. 43.13 England for the WC NOT!
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I won't make a partisan prediction re. the World Cup. I will say it's more open than it has been since inception.
And that's good for the game.
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I think that ireland are the best european team out there at the moment, but i think their chances of winning the world cup are as slim as england's because they don't seem to turn up at the big matches especially when brian o'driscoll isn't playing, i understand any team is weak without their talisman, but they should have played better during the first half against france. If they can't play well enough for 1 game without o'd during the 6 nations then they can't win the world cup
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Ireland has a better chance of winning the Cricket WC then they do the Rugby WC. At least it seems like they will get to the 2nd round of the former.
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This tournament was great. The Italians really improved, and the Irish proved they were a good team. Sadly enough, the Irish full potential never materializes and you guys often miss a win by a thin margin. It is probably psychological. Do the Irish really want to win.
However, as a French I do not think the French or the Irish have a genuine chance of winning the WC. It is all very well to play one great game but our teams are not consistently good. Sure, we will get to the semis, there are not enough southern hemisphere teams to prevent that, but the European level will need to improve a great deal to hope for more.
BTW, agree with you about the stupid new anthem: it makes me cringe too.
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...so, fantasy Lions time....how about this lot
Hayes
Best
Jenkins
O Connell
O Callaghan
Taylor
Jones
Wallace
Peel
Hook
D'Arcy
BOD
Lamont
Horgan
Thomas
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How many times are we let down by O'Gara missing easy kicks in important matches. He does the same thing for Munster.
For this reason he will never be described a great player like Wilkinson or Carter.
He is not in the same class.
He is paid to kick the ball. On one occasion against Italy the ball was pointing towards the corner flag. How he could then kick it straight defies the laws of physics.
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Just back from Rome. Why is our national side such a choke-outfit? Some comments pointed out that they played good rugby - only in pockets, sporadically. They are professionals and well-paid and should perform as such. We lost the championship because of unprofessionalism at the end of two games and a lack of leadership. The eternal optimists would like to think we will learn from these lessons. The realists might point out we haven't before. I will be at all the games in France either way - sucker for punishment.
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First, one of the best 6 nations tournaments ever and the best team won the championship. Second, England have a huge amount of rebuilding to do. Third, with the help of Ireland, Wales, Scotland they will do it a lot quicker than without them. Once again the tournament has shown us that the Celtic nations are only interested in one strategy - beat the English. And if they do that, then they've had a great tournament. Take the Irish - believed their own hype that they are on the edge of being a "great" team. Never have been and never will be. Sunday Telegraph made some great calls about the injustice of some of Irish tries yesterday - read it and read the truth. The prima donna's in the Irish team (O'Driscoll and O'Gara) are a disgrace to Ireland and rugby culture - they are no better than poncy football players who think they have no right in being tackled. Wales? After reading a lot of comments about "just beating the English" frankly it just confirms that you will never be any more than a second rate rugby nation. Said it before and I will say it again - England will win the World Cup again before any of the other Celtic nations win it. There's only the French who have the same level of commitment and bottle that the English have, who have any chance of holding the World Cup. And that's from and Englishman..
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P.S. I would like to make a formal complaint to the IRB about the Italians - after their performance this year they've just added an extra 30% to the price of a ticket and probably 50% to the price of the hotels in Rome for next year. Not acceptable - they should be thrown out before they show any more improvement in performance, putting the price of tickets beyond the average man and into the hands of the Corporate monster...
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I dunno some of the comments on here make me worry a bit about the game. We`re getting carried away. I have been a follower of Irish rugby for 30 years now and have enjoyed a few ups and downs. But have never taken any of them too seriously. So we missed out on a championship. So we might have won it and for once probably should have won it. But what the hell. Isn`t it nice to lose out while playing such exciting rugby. Never in that 30 years have I been able to say that. If the world cup is as interesting for us as this 6 nations I`ll settle for it now.....
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To 34 Peter Purdy
Perhaps if you are to win the WC again before any Celtic Nations wouldnt the 6 N be a good place to srart beating them instead of losing by 30 points ?
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As an Irish fan, I can't believe some of the comments on here about being potential WC winners. To be honest, I'll be happy if we get out of the group given that the Argies are in it. Our front row is murder and could be murdered by Argentina in that game. Yes, our backs are the best in world rugby but they aren't going to do much if they haven't got the ball.
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A great tournament marred by Eddie O'Sullivans headline grabbing "choke claims" and poor time-keeping in the Italy v Wales match.
Player of the tournament:
Dennis Hickie (Ireland)
Flop of the tournament:
Marcus Di Rollo (Scotland)
Moment of the tournament:
The last 5 minutes of France v Scotland when the title was thrown away and then snatched back at the death.
Find of the tournament:
David Skrela (France)
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Purdy - from your first word you talk absolute rubbish. You obviously haven't a clue about rugby and if winning the WC is so important you can have it. Sadly for you - being such a pig headed prat - you'll never be part of the rugby fraternity that enjoys a good (or bad) game and can have a drink and a laugh afterwards. England will get to the semi's (the draw favours them) - France have chance of going all the way. Ireland - well only the media believe the hype - I hope we play some decent rugby and if we can get past both Argentina and France we'll have a party. Watch it on your own mate cause you'll bore the pants off anyone else unlucky to be in your company. As an Irishman I would love any of the Northern Hemisphere teams to win but most importantly - I'll have an enjoyable time and meet new friends from all nations. Cheers mate - stay at home!
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#37 (Jimmy); Point of order - I don't think that England will win the World Cup this year. It may take us another million years to win it (doubt that of course), but it will still be before any of the Celts...
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Oh well, it seems that Ireland have fallen just short again.... shame. I mean with all their acclaimed 'cheating' in the Welsh game the false accusations in the Scotland game that still have never been backed up with proof and no apology forthcoming from EOS plus how they bottled it against France I don't really see how they would even be considered worthy of winning the championship, they belong in second place and long may it continue
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Yeah were going to win the world cup - the cricket world cup that is! Who cares about O'Driscoll when you whoop Pakistan's ass. Ireland! Ireland!
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So Peter Purdy to win the WC and in next 4 seasons in 6N finish in 3, 4, 4, 3 , thats a a fair commitment from a World beating team for that reason alone the Celts have been away better teams and been the nearest to the French who in your words " have the same level of commitment and bottle that the English have"
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So, the Celtic nations are only interested in beating England. Well, I have to admit for me a victory over England does have an extra sweet taste, but I would not say that Ireland is only interested in beating England. If memory serves they lead the championship in tries scored and, at the risk of feeding teh English who feel the need to comment on our shortcomings, were within minutes of a grandslam.
I love how the tabloid English media continues to pick apart our performances and comment on our deficiencies. When we win well, we cheat or play dirt, when we lose...it proves how c**p we really are...as it says in the bible, perhaps they should first remove the mote from their own eye. I didn't see either the English or media offering to discount the Wilko try against Scotland even though it was blatantly out of play. Referee's can an do get it wrong...sometimes it is in your favour, other times it is not...see the Ref calls in the French and Italian tries for example.
As for the O'Gara choking incident..let it go. Somehow, someway O'Gara was deprived of oxygen at the bottom of a pile of bodies...I don't think drawing attention to the result of this incident, accident or otherwise,necessitates an apology.
Anyway, overall, I have to say I enjoyed this 6N's. Every team deseres credit for a good tournament. That being said every tam will need to significantly raise the level of their game between now and September of they want to challenge for the RWC.
As for me, by that time I will be living in Ecuador and am dreading the possibility that I will not be able to watch the games.
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Look, I am a fan of the Irish team though not an Ireland fan. After France and Wales Ireland are the team I would most like to see win the WC. I think Ireland have a great team at the moment and do unbelievably well when you consider what a small player base they have compared to England, France Wales etc - a bit like the Aussies.
But the Irish backs are not the best in the world. Apart from BOD - probably, who of the Irish backs would honestly get into a world xv? Girven Dempsey, Peter Stringer, Ronan O'Gara? The Irish backs are all good players who benefit from playing their club rugby together and from having played in the same Irish team for some time now. But anyone seen the All Blacks playing recently? They are on a different planet. The only sides I believe that can beat them at the WC are a fired up French team or possibly South Africa - they are the last team to have beaten the AB's. But I wouldn't bet on it.
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Steve 42. I'm presuming you're English. If you're Scottish - your comments would be funny. But supposing you're English allow we to deal with your comments implied and the bitter undercurrents therein.
Better to fall short by 15 seconds in second place than become a ineffective, impotent and inept third place - after yet another false English dawn.
Look at the last seven years of 6n's. Look at the recent results versus the SH sides. Look at your own national team's demise, the prattling arrogance replacing an appreciation of actual performance, a stuttering mess. And the Celt-envy that many english rugby fans are now displaying simply underscores the pathetic, faccile state of the game in England. It's sad really, and your snearing, desparate coments are just an expression of this 'sadness'.
Yeah, it's second place - again. Yeah, we've choked - again. But, hey, if that's the best you've got to throw at us, we'll take it.
Just like the way we continually take England consistently making your team look like a passionless ordinary, disoragnised rag tag of over paid jsters - 4 out of the last 5 meetings!
Oh yeah... let's also look at our ability to actually compete against SH teams - something England are having some difficulty with - even versus a weakened Bok side on tour.
Comments like yours underscores everything that's wrong with the English game, it's 'Moore-ism' gone mad - a product of a wider cultural malaise and neo-colonism endemic in little England.
When I look at the teams from the UK I wonder when are the structures going to catch up with ours - when will England and Scotland become competitive again.
Perhaps you should ask your self this question: with the biggest pool of players, the Guinness premiership etc. England have failed spectacularly to stand up to the green machine.
why is that?
and I've just watched your cricket team... another sport you invent and then forget to manage properly... oh dear!
Good luck in the WC.
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steve what kind of comments are they? pathetic really. can we get over the whole incidentt in scotland? we finished 2nd in the 6 nations same points as france and won the triple crown! ya what a shame really! where are you from? if youre scottish then i totally get the bitterness. just wondering if frank hadden would apologise if the boot was on the other foor? and if nothing happened at then why demand an apology for nothing?
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Ireland are in a crossfire here,
its quite sad actually we have our baby celtic cousins jealousy to contend with mainly the welsh, and sad english guys like purdy annoyed that they are never able to produce gallic/gaelic flair players the likes of BOD and darcy and even some welsh players, unless they are of a different background
If you think ireland thrashing england made our championship your to old mate, it was a nice day no more
face the future purdy time to fade away like the old big routine plodders you are and let the new boys in town shine and please leave frances coat tails alone it smacks of desperation, chalk and cheese buddy
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Well Steve (post #42), with all the faults you list it's amazing, isn't it, to have such a close competition at the end between France and Ireland?
So, from your comments, you think the six nations will always be France first and Ireland second? Even I would never have the cheek to write off Wales that way. Or were you thinking of Ireland as being consistently second in world rankings?
:)
Steve said of Ireland:
they belong in second place and long may it continue
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What is it that Irish officials and in particular McDowell hacve against Scotland and Ally hogg? Mcdowell was the TJ who said Hogg had a foot in touch 2 years when the try would have lead to a Scottish victory in Paris and it was him again yesterday who ruled Hogg had not got hinslef under Elvis at the end of the match. What irony that it deprived his own nation of the chmapionship! Also it was he who was in middle when courtney was TMO and gave Wilkinson's try agaisnt us at Twickenham this year.
Scotland flattered to deceive and di Rollo was flop of tournmant and should be allowed to regain confidence before being selected again. I hope he does as when he is on his game he is an exciting player. We still need to find a fly half - still wish Paterson would get full game there as each time this season has moved there from wing or full back he has had Scotland firing. Is he the answer? Lets find out by playing him there for Edinburgh for rest of season and then in warm up tests. We dont want to do what happened in RWC03 when he was move there in the must win game against Fiji. It worked though.!
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look we can blame the referees till the cows come home but the facts are ireland didnt end the match when they should have and scotland were already being hammered! noone has anything against scotland ally- the irish were praying that the try wouldnt dtand either but the fact is scotland were dead and buried by then. although there were flashes of brilliance from the scots through the game. felt sorry for the lamont who got sent off- was he the impressive one?
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Dolly , you're out of order. where did you get your name, by the way, would it be from Dolly Fossett, the ole Dublin hoor? Probably. Expect to get steamrolled in Paris in September, ya mouth. Remember where you heard it first
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It was a awful pity to see Ireland go out by such tough means. If O Gara had his kicking boots on we would be celebrating a glorious win but it was not to be on the day.Also Italy are a improving side so expect them to compete in next years Six Nations!!
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THE PARTY'S NOT FINISHED IN THE CARRIBBEAN!! SO WHAT IF ST PADDY'S DAY FELL FLAT FOR A BIT, IT ONLY LASTED FOR A WHILE! CRICKET, I LOVE IT! OH YEAH. NO DOUBT ABOUT IT, ITS CRICKET. I LOVE IT!
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all this optimism from irish supporters seems a little misplaced in view of ireland's well deseved reputation as 'chokers'!
choked in 2002 against england, choked in the 2003 WC against france, against france again in 2005 - oh and against france again in 2006 and 2007!
But dont worry as in this years wc ireland have been grouped with .....er....france!
So to suggest that this ageing team of chokers can beat france in france in september is frankly laughable - it aint gonna happen! In a group also containing argentina just coming second is probably the best ireland can hope for. But then it'll be the all blacks and i suspect this ageing team of nearly men will be ruthlessly exposed for the ordinary, limited and rather boring outfit they are! Maybe if ireland actually tried playing a bit of rugby for once - instead of just keeping it tight or preying on others mistakes - they might lose this reputation as being chokers and actually win a championship for a change!
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Crazy thought i know but maybe Ireland should be celebrating another triple crown to add to the ever increasing pile. While i do rate ireland up there with the best of them, i totally disagree that they are the best in Europe. I think France are deserving champs looking back at each game on merit. No point bringing refereeing into the argument as ireland would probably only have won 2-3 matches if the referees were spot on throughout the competition. I do sometimes think Ireland show a lack of confidence in that i hope for their sake that O'Driscoll is fit throughout the WC as i have watched far too many ireland games where they fold like a deck of cards against lesser teams the minute he is not in the starting lineup. Never the less well done to France for the champs and well done to Ireland for another great triple crown.
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I do agree with A Jones, 3 of the Irrland tries must have been refuse beaucause of forward passes. So Ireland do not deserve the title.
The most disapointing thing in the tournament is the match lost agains England that cost us the Gran Slam lost...
Well let see what will hapen in the WC. Hope the latin teams will show to anglo team that they are ready to win (I think about France, Argentina and Itlay of course)
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Leigh at No.56 said "Maybe if ireland actually tried playing a bit of rugby for once - instead of just keeping it tight or preying on others mistakes". You are either new to rugby or perhaps just watch the occasional Ireland game, or perhaps you're of limited intelligence...I can't work out which. Now take note of this Leigh....Ireland were the top try scorers in the campionship. How did we do that by "playing it tight"? As for the accusation of "chokers' (obviously latching on to Brian Moore's myopic comments like so many other myopic non-Irish rugby fans) this is one the best teams we've ever had. We have an inordinatly small pool base of players to choose from compared to France or England and our progress over the last 4 years or so is nothing short of staggering considering these limited resources. We also beat SA and Australia in the Autumn. We have a very tough group in the WC but i believe we will beat France and Argentina and progress. The French will be under massive pressure at home to win, just as we were at Croke Park. If you want to talk about historic chokers just look at the AB's over the last 4 WC's. They are there to be taken by some team to who dares to believe....and Ireland are just the team to do it.
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As much as I respect readers of the 大象传媒 website, there are a lot of very bizzare comments on this blog. Not least by pudgey purdy, but especially #56 Leigh. To say that Ireland, having scored 8 tries, 7 from the backs against a resilient Italian side, are boring is myopic to say the least. Have you even watched a game? I suspect that you are english and in that case we should feel sorry for you because, historically I do not think there has been a more boring team to watch than the lilly whites. Only Guscott has ever sparked interest with the ball in hand, even the world cup winning side were lugubrious and coma inducing at the best of times
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Let's clear a few things up here...
England's failings don't come down to a lack of quality on their part. I think many people would agree that players like Tom Rees, Toby Flood, Shane Geraghty, Harry Ellis and Dave Strettle have come to the fore, and are worthy of their places. The current team is inexperienced, but the potential is massive. After the World Cup, England lost a number of vastly influential players (Johnson, Back, Leonard, Greenwood, Dawson, Woodman) to retirement, not to mention injury (Wilkinson, Vickery, Thompson, Hill). In the meantime, the chopping and changing of players due to form, injury or personal preference of whoever is in charge has led to a lack of continuity.
Ireland, on the other hand, have a well-established side - their backs play together almost every day, and have a fantastic understanding of each other's games. But they aren't getting any younger - who can come and fill the boots of O'Driscoll, Hickie, O'Gara?
Teams that grow together, generally dissolve together. It happened to Australia, it's happened to England, and it will probably happen to Ireland. I just hope they can make the most of it as well as Australia and England did, because special talents like O'Driscoll deserve international success.
I thought the championship was excellent - fabulous standards shown by all teams involved, played in the correct spirit, and what a final day!
More Super Saturdays, please!
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I think the real loser last weekend was not Ireland but rugby. I think journalism and the news in general is spreading for want of a better word hatred into rugby. Look back at the Ireland-England game, was it going to be a battle of the outhalves?, a battle up front?, nope, it was how will the irish react to the national anthem being played in Croke park. When commentators like Brian Moore are being allowed to spread there biggoted ideas about the irish, french, in fact all things nor english then it is a sad day for rugby. I watched the france england game last week and when a french player got fouled Mr Moore said he deserved it for being french, my god how we are changing. We should all support each home nation in the upcoming world cup and just be happy that we can compete with the rest of the world and not be so small minded as to think we are celts, or english, we are all fans of a great game, lets not go down the soccer road please.
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September will be another story for everyone. The French will no longer have the pressure of being selected, (40 players in this year's Six Nations) therefore should (hopefully) show some good old flair. I am confident all the teams will be ready. And I also believe South Africa is the dark horse. The Sharks are impressive in this year's Super 14 unless the Wallabies... we never know the Western Force is doing pretty well too, and the Wallabies are the Germans of rugby. Always there when you don't expect them. In a nutshell, the 6N have a lot of work to do, the only thing we know for sure, one a good day everyone in the Northern Hemisphere can create an upset. The performance of each team was overall very much up and down.
ABs do not seem to have problems with consistancy. Fortunately, Rugby World Cups are always unpredictable!!
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Hopefully this 6N will provide a valuable lesson to the Irish team. They need to avoid the mental lapses in the WC that occured against France and Italy. Ireland are capable of winning the group and getting to the final of the WC. What worries me most are injuries to BOD or POC. This team looks a lot weaker without BOD and the pack is a lot weaker in the set pieces without POC. The lineouts were a shocker this w/end. They'll be gutted with losing the 6N but hopefully it'll give them a reality check on what they need to improve on in order to make the final 4 in France in Sep. On balance France are worthy champions of Europe.
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As a Frenchman, I would first like to congratulate the Irish on a great tournament run. If Ireland keeps playing at this level, they will take home a 6N title and GS within the next year or two. However, we deserved our title this year. Better point differential or not, we won in Dublin.
The 6N should have the result of the head-to-head match serve as the first tiebreaker if teams are even on points atop the standings. I am not in favor of the bonus point system, because that would make it possible for a team to win the Grand Slam but not the tournament. In fact, this would have happened in 2002. France won all five of its matches, but under the bonus point system England would have come out on top of the table.
At this point, I feel that September's France-Ireland match is a toss-up, much like last month's match in Croke Park.
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The feed in Israel went out too. There was a group of confused israelis as i hurled abuse at the TV until it came back on. Just Typical being Irish, great result for rugby, heartbreaking but not suprising for Irish.
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Yesterday would have been a Ge out of Jaul card - Ireland lost to France so end of story but it is a pity that match wasn't yesterday.
Decision making is Ireland's Achilles Heel. Against France, Scotland and the final minutes yesterday. But it's a great team otherwise and generally a street ahead of other teams on these islands.
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Its funny how bitter alot of the comments are! English fans accusing the Irish of chocking, Irish fans accusing the Scottish of chocking R O'G, Welsh fans keeping quiet and French fans being very diplomatic about the whole tournament. As a kid in Ireland my school didnt allow the playing of Rugby (stupid political reasons, Gaelic football only), to see how far the sport in Ireland has come in recent years is amazing. My old school played their first ever Rugby match this year, Ireland U21s have just won the Grand Slam! Croke Park is proud to host a Rugby match. The sport is fast becoming something that everyone is behind and we will only improve...so 2nd place with so much still to come, yeah I can live with that.
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Interesting reading many English fans gloating at Ireland`s second place in the Championship. If we had won the Championship they wouldn`t give us credit because we didn`t win the Slam.
How these people can still talk after the humiliation they received at Croke Park is beyond me. And chokers- don`t make me laugh. Who choked at the death in Twickenham last year when Horgan went over to seal the Triple Crown?
Rugby is a very much a minority sport in Ireland. I find it hard to believe we have such a talented bunch on the international scene. Our U 20`s also won the Slam at the weekend. We were v close to beating New Zealand on their home turf last summer and we`d give them a good game of it at the mo.
We could well go out at the group stage of the W C, but if I was a French man I would be nervously looking over my shoulder.
Listening to all this goading and deep criticism proves to me how far this Irish team has come. To put over 50 points against this Italian team in Rome was a great achievement.
The reason we conceeded at the death was because we threw caution to the wind and attacked at every given opportunity to put more points on the board. Hats off to the lads, you let nobody down- If you can taste both victory and defeat and treat both these imposters just the same- thanks for the great efforts and entertainment provided thus far. Somehow I don`t think we`ve seen the best of this lot just yet.
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The least I can say is that I'm surprised by the Irish reactions. I thought that we, French, had the monopoly over sore losing.
To all the ones who still believe there is no last minute French try, I invite you to have a look at the 大象传媒 website and check the France-Scotland match highlights. At the end, you can clearly hear the referee telling the TMO that he's seen the ball grounded and he's just asking wether there would be a reason to invalidate the try. Ball grounded, no fault... try... end of argument.
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Leigh in post 56 wrote: "....all this optimism from Irish supporters seems a little misplaced in view of Ireland鈥檚 well deserved reputation as 'chokers'....choked in 2002 against England, choked in the 2003 WC against France, against France again in 2005 - oh and against France again in 2006 and 2007..... Maybe if Ireland actually tried playing a bit of rugby for once - instead of just keeping it tight or preying on others mistakes - they might lose this reputation as being chokers and actually win a championship for a change"
I have never heard such clich茅d rubbish in all my life! Firstly, we have a right to be optimistic seeing as both our international and club teams have had some successes over the last number of years, i.e. two triple crowns for Ireland, and Munster winning the Heineken cup, to name but a few. Optimism is good, and can be used to motivate a team and a nation, particularly when such optimism remains grounded in reality, however, I imagine you guys in England would struggle with that particular concept seeing as how the UK media hype up the English national team no matter what the sport. I'm thinking; the football team (every four years you expect to win the world cup and of course you never do, no one outside of England is surprised by this yet you all seem to be in a state of shock when you get dumped out), your cricket team come up with one win every ten (the last ashes series is another prime example of optimism blinding you all), Rugby (a lot of commentators and so called experts before the Ireland game suggested England could win the world cup), need I continue?
Non English people have put up with your blinded optimism for years and have had to grin and bare it, and surprising though it may seem for someone like you, we have on occasions recognised good English performances and congratulated you on your successes. (When England won the GS in Dublin in 2003 your efforts were recognised by all those present and by the Irish media as a whole and people genuinely believed that you deserved to win the GC after much heartache previous to that day!)
As for the Irish being "Chokers".. I'd love to know what you mean exactly by the term "Chokers"?? Could the All Blacks be deemed Chokers for never having won the WC? Could France be deemed Chokers for having reached two WC finals and lost? Could your beloved England be defined as Chokers for their failed attempts at securing the GS prior to their 2003 success?? Any great sporting achievement is based on hard work and learning from defeat and hardship. When the likes of BOD, O' Connell, O Gara, finally hang up their boots we will and should make a call on whether they were truly successful or not, however until then I suggest you are a little more respectful in your comments particularly in light of the things these guys have done in the game.
Finally, you say that if Ireland tried playing some rugby and stopped playing so tight and relying on others mistakes then they may get over their choker tag!!!!
I can see now that you were building up to a big crescendo of down right bulls?t and with that comment you certainly hit the mark!!!! We could and should be accused of making mistakes in this tournament and It could be argued that we don鈥檛 have enough leaders when the likes of BOD is not around, however, to have a go at the way we play is down right ridiculous and silly, considering we scored the highest number of tries and probably ran the ball more than any other team.
Leigh, I suggest you do something else with your Saturday afternoons in March and if I were you I'd avoid the world cup as well, if only to ensure that we don't get anymore posts of this ilk and from people so blinded like yourself !
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Well well as per usual the Welsh Bloggers(Iwan #13)have proven that there a crowd of begrudgers.
What great tournment. However I must now give my own little moan.
There was a huge advantage for France by having played second on Saturday. Do you think that without knowing the result of the Ireland game and with 30 secs on the clock and having been awarded a penalty that France would not have gone for the kick at goal inorder to try and get some last minute points. Instead they knew that this kick would only have drawn the level with Ireland and Ireland would have won on Trys scored.
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Leigh in post 56 wrote: "....all this optimism from Irish supporters seems a little misplaced in view of Ireland鈥檚 well deserved reputation as 'chokers'....choked in 2002 against England, choked in the 2003 WC against France, against France again in 2005 - oh and against France again in 2006 and 2007..... Maybe if Ireland actually tried playing a bit of rugby for once - instead of just keeping it tight or preying on others mistakes - they might lose this reputation as being chokers and actually win a championship for a change"
I have never heard such clich茅d rubbish in all my life! Firstly, we have a right to be optimistic seeing as both our international and club teams have had some successes over the last number of years, i.e. two triple crowns for Ireland, and Munster winning the Heineken cup, to name but a few. Optimism is good, and can be used to motivate a team and a nation, particularly when such optimism remains grounded in reality, however, I imagine you guys in England would struggle with that particular concept seeing as how the UK media hype up the English national team no matter what the sport. I'm thinking the following to name but a few; the football team (every four years you expect to win the world cup and of course you never do, no one outside of England is surprised by this yet you all seem to be in a state of shock when you get dumped out), your cricket team come up with one win every ten (the last ashes series is another prime example of optimism blinding you all), Rugby (a lot of commentators and so called experts before the Ireland game suggested England could win the world cup), need I continue?
Non English people have put up with your blinded optimism for years and have had to grin and bare it, and surprising though it may seem for someone like you, we have on occasions recognised good English performances and congratulated you on your successes. (When England won the GS in Dublin in 2003 your efforts were recognised by all those present and by the Irish media as a whole and people genuinely believed that you deserved to win the GC after much heartache previous to that day!)
As for the Irish being "Chokers".. I'd love to know what you mean exactly by the term "Chokers"?? Could the All Blacks be deemed Chokers for never having won the WC? Could France be deemed Chokers for having reached two WC finals and lost? Could your beloved England be defined as Chokers for their failed attempts at securing the GS prior to their 2003 success?? Any great sporting achievement is based on hard work and learning from defeat and hardship. When the likes of BOD, O' Connell, O Gara, finally hang up their boots we will and should make a call on whether they were truly successful or not, however until then I suggest you are a little more respectful in your comments particularly in light of the things these guys have done in the game.
Finally, you say that if Ireland tried playing some rugby and stopped playing so tight and relying on others mistakes then they may get over their choker tag!!!!
I can see now that you were building up to a big crescendo of down right bulls?t and with that comment you certainly hit the mark!!!! We could and should be accused of making mistakes in this tournament and It could be argued that we don鈥檛 have enough leaders when the likes of BOD is not around, however, to have a go at the way we play is down right ridiculous and silly, considering we scored the highest number of tries and probably ran the ball more than any other team.
Leigh, I suggest you do something else with your Saturday afternoons in March and if I were you I'd avoid the world cup as well, if only to ensure that we don't get anymore posts of this ilk and from people so blinded like yourself !
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Has anyone mentioned the fact that Italy's injury time try, which proved so significant in making France's task easier, came from Ireland running the ball from their own 5 metre line, when they could have just kicked the ball into touch and cashed in their 30-point advantage. They believed that with the whistle imminent, they were more likely to score a try from under their own posts, than they were to give away a penalty, or get turned over, despite the fact that Italy had scored moments before. That showed unbelievable disrespect to Italy, and ultimately, Ireland paid the price for their arrogance.
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Well done to France, a narrow, but derserved win. Ireland also a had a good run, a triple crown isnt a bad season. Enough of the bitter and infantile comments. Bitterness has no place in Rugby. The world cup will tell all.
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Leigh's comments either suggest a very limited understanding of the game or simply the begrudging rantings of a Welsh or English supporter who have received little from the tournament but frustration at the standard of rugby being played by Wales and England.
Ireland's journey towards the 3rd ranked team in the world has so far been consistent and measured and I would rather see them continue to improve along the lines that they have then to see a 'flash in the pan' team as Wales were a few years ago.
Becoming the best is a process not an event.
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Brian O'Driscoll has gradually worked his way into becoming an influential captain of the Irish rugby team.The fact that he was not on the field when France scored their last try to snatch the win at Croke park and not available to order the kicking into touch of the ball at the end of the Italy game to leave us with a 31 point advantage over France, bears testament.I think he would have made the right call in those situations.However I do no for certain that if Ireland had any natural leaders like Ciaran Fitzgerald or Willie John McBride on the field there would have been no question of the outcome.We know the strengths and weaknesses of this Irish squad and they will be considered as a team with a real ,if outside chance of lifting the Webb Ellis trophy.But it is in the margins that is the difference between winning and losing and correct decisions,under pressure are vital.
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Not the same Jim as #67.
Talk about nationalistic tendencies!
Why does everyone assum that, unless you have an Irish/Scottish/Welsh name that you must be English?
Brian #73 has clearly been upset by Leigh but , whilst I see nothing to suggest that he isn't English, I see nothing to suggest that he is either.
I disagree with Leigh, I think that Ireland are not chokers I think that their problems are more deeprooted than that.
The present squad has been built since 2003 and there is no doubt that they have played the rugby of this tournament and the understanding 11-15 is astounding.
But that is essentially because they all play for the same club. Remove or change an element of the back line and it is more than weakened, it is a diasaster. Remove a stand out player like BOD and its even worse.
The same in the pack, lose O'Connell (who I think has been a little anonymous anyway apart from the England game) and all communication in the lineout goes.
England were in the same boat last time out, the squad had been building over 5 years and was obviously weakened with the loss of players like Greenwood and Hill. The difference though was that the replacements had been given enough game time to ensure that the damage was not terminal.
I'm not so sure about Ireland.
Ireland could win the WC, if they keep everyone fit. Unfortunately, I can't see that happening.
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Would England have won the world cup without a fit Johnny wilkinson?...NO
So for English fans to say Ireland arent a good side because they rely too much on their best players really takes the biscuit.
One game i would put my house on ireland winning in the world cup if they are all fit for it is the French game, they wil probably loose against argentina and maybe not get out of the group...nothing like revenge to drive a team.
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This is currently the greatest Irish rugby team we have ever had, however talk of winning the WC is absolutely ludicrous.
Please people can we try to maintain a bit of reality because talk like that is setting us up for a huge fall.
It's like those people who were saying we will stroll to the Grand Slam. I don't know where this new national arrogance has come from, maybe the Celtic Tiger has something to answer for here, but it stinks.
I am all for Ireland no longer being in tournaments to make up the numbers. I even quite like the fact that the Welsh, Scots and English don't seem to like us anymore. Good, its because we scare them. However there is an irish mental block that seems to stop us from going the extra mile that stops us from winning things.
As for the WC, we are miles away from being any sort of title contenders.
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Ireland huge favourites for the grand slam going into the 6 nations fell flat on their face. A 1 point win over scotland, scrappy result against wales and loss to France was hardly the finest performance by a team in the 6 nations over the last decade. They currently have no chance of winning the world cup against the southern hemisphere teams aswell as the hosts France. I actually think England and Wales have more of a chance if they can get evryone fit and find form as for most of that tournament that was Irelands finest !
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Thomas.Thomas,Thomas,
While I agree Ireland should have kicked into touch(Hindsight) but the fact that they didn't has nothing to do with lack of respect for Italy. What a ridicules comment and fueled with bitterness.
Ireland knew they had a job to do and that was to get points on the board for every available situation.And yes they paid the price for that, but if they played a cautious game they may have only won by 5-10 point if at all.
Get real Thomas
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81#
you are delusional... Ireland have beaten wales england and scotland for what 4/5 years on the trot (bar wales 2005)
and the french game was ours bar 50 seconds at the end of it. Take away those 50 seconds and we would of had a GS... yeah BIG difference!
All in all i think that puts us in better condition than anyone else and its 50/50 to whether france beat us or not, they deant exactly steam roller us did they!
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Whatever nationality Leigh is, why is it that anyone who dares to criticise Ireland, or support their opponents, causes so much offence? Imagine if every anti-English post got so much reaction, there would just be a never-ending succession of slagging each other off and no rugby talk at all (a bit like this thread really!) I remember watching Ireland v France in a sports bar in Moscow two years ago. A few people (South Africans and Americans as well as English) cheered, when France scored - provoking some very unpleasant reaction from Irish fans who obviously couldn't cope with neutral fans not supporting them. Of course it is the God-given right of any Irish/Welsh/Scots to go into English pubs and vocally support whoever England are playing. Getting good results means Ireland aren't the underdog anymore, and naturally lots of the neutral support is going to wane. England rarely have any neutral support even when they are the underdog, yet people don't get so touchy about it.
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Ronan
Thanks for your response. I agree that Ireland's job was to get the biggest winning margin, so therefore, conceding points was just as damaging as scoring them was necessary. As much as Ireland wanted more points, they must have realised that Italy scoring would have been much worse for them than the game finishing with no further scores. And yet they obviously didn't think there was any risk of this happening (this is on their own line) So I stand by my comments that it was disrespectful to Italy. (rather like when England ran the ball in 1999 instead of taking a spot-kick against Wales which also cost them the 6 nations. That was rightly so labelled arrogant and disrespectful). By the way, I'm not bitter in the slightest (is bitterness the new arrogance?), I had a very enjoyable Saturday!
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France are the best team in the Northern Hemisphere by far, they play, on a good day with a passion and flair that no other 6 Nations team can rival. They deservedly won the title on Saturday and in my eyes were always more likely to win than Ireland. Ireland hyped themselves into this ridulous title favourite/second best rugby team in the World role. They appear to have totally overlooked the fact that the "actual" second best rugby team in the World won the Six Nations yet again this year!! Vive la France oh and well done Wales, nice to see you bag a win, it was well deserved.
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If If If If If If If If If???????
France won the 6 nations end of.
Ireland would have won it IF they had beaten France at Croke.
Ireland would have won it IF Ronan O'Gara had scored soem points with the boot.
Ireland would have won it IF they kicked the ball out at Full time.
Ireland would have won it IF the Scots had kicked a few penalties instead of going for tries.
Ireland would have won it IF the great Finn McCool (apologies for spelling) had reawoken and stomped on the French team bus as it was pulling into the Stade de France.
Eddie O'Sullivan summed it up "never die wondering". Exactly the right attitude to take.
Hindsight should be used to learn not beat yourselves up with.
Ireland are the best team in the northern hemisphere at the moment despite their lack of squad depth. They have played the best Rugby of the tournament by a mile unfortunately just not against France.
Bye the way Hawkiliam #79 - IF JW did not play in the 03 WC final, Paul Grayson would have played, in form and no mean kicker himself. I think we would still have won.
I guess we'll never know!! - now, back to Ireland v France without O'Driscoll.
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I knew it! Ireland never had a chance. England has got this in the bag so you may as well stop moaning now.
Sorry Ireland, your just not good enough.
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Ordinarily I would have been quietly hoping for Ireland to sneak it over France. But after the ridiculous outburst following Ireland's game against Scotland I was very noisily rooting for France.
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Brett - after Ireland beat Wales on the opening weekend, I had been hoping they would go on to land the slam. However, your comments make me want to take back that sentiment. Three pieces of cruel luck in the dying seconds of 3 different games deprived them of the title, if not the grand slam, which was a shame. Wales' "flash in the pan" in 2005 was a well deserved slam, we played some terrific rugby. In 2006 half that side seemed to be injured or disillusioned and out of form after the disastrous Lions tour; which continued into this season (Gavin Henson a case in point - he really needs to cheer up a bit, and start playing with a smile on his face, rather then gloom in his soul). We had glimpses of what we can do, but when going backwards before you get the ball in most matches, was going to be tough. Still, had we finished off some of the created chances against Ireland, that is, if we had had any of our first team wingers on the field - who knows??? Ah - if only our pack had played the whole tournament like they did against England!!
Every team seemed to have at least one really bad day at the office - Wales v Scotland; Scotland v England; France v England, England v Ireland; Italy v France; except Ireland, who had just 2 mins of madness against France, and boy did it cost them.
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tom no irish fan is taking offence at critiscism. we are taking offence at the fact that we are now being called chokers despite the fact that we finished level on 8 points! i really resnt the pathetic choking comments made by i can only assume to be welsh, scottish or englsih fans. as far as i can see we are the only side really capable of challenging france and giving nz a proper game.constructive critiscism is fine. id admit we didnt play to our full potential but it's the measure of a team that can play badly and still win. back a few years when ireland were in the 6n to make up numbers, the mentality was to give it a lash and unequivocal praise even when losing. now we are happy to only win matches! constructive critiscism is fine but calling us chokers and arrogant and overrated etc etc when we're still 3rd in the world is ridiculous aqnd petty.
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Britishbeefsteak...obviously that is what is between your ears...go drink some warm beer and continue to dream of past glories...because that is all you have.
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guy- can u not get over the scotland game ? and like irish fans really cared if u didnt support them after that. . very good u were rooting for france! how intersting for us to know that. and you know you can see how the players were affected by it putting 51 points on the board and all. the italians had more reason to be annoyed with the referee than the scottish and you know what they congratulated ireland and irish fans and were completely gracious. the italian fans are amazing!
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Some strange comments. This was a great 6 nations - it is still by far trhe best annual international sports competition in existance. Ireland had a great tournament, and came so close, but they didn't win - fact. They probaly have the most talented team in the competition and sure as hell the most spirited. But we made some mistakes - well, grow up, that is life. I for one didn't have a miserable St Patricks day - it would have been great if the French hadn't scored the last try and if the Italians hadn't scored theirs - but there you go, they did. But we played some fantastic rugby and for those suffering from short memory syndrome, it is not so long ago we wouldn't have been able to dream of this type of performance.
Are we in with a chance in the World Cup - hell yes. Is it a done deal, hell no. But with the support the team has enjoyed over this tournament and that the team can look forward to in France, it is probably the best chance we have ever had. So, lets enjoy the successes, refelect hard on the moments of weakness, in particular the performance in Scotland, and be ready to support the most exciting team in the Northern Hemispehere.
One last learning point, the French crown gave fantatsic support to their team in the last minutes and we must do the same for our lads. I for one, with the many thousands of others, will be there to support the team make all of our dreams come true.
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What a great days rugby but an unfortunate outcome.
Never mind the If's and buts it's done now.
Ireland have an excellent chance in the RWC this autumn but like all the home nations have to consistently perform as a unit. The backs cannot be relied upon to run in tries willy nilly against the SH teams. The Irish pack on its day is formidable but then so is the Welsh pack, as displayed against England.
It has to be the most open RWC ever.
NZ are the side to beat and that has to be the aspiration for all the nations rather than getting excited over beating a recovering England.
This 6N has been so up and down it's unreal. Only France have shown any consistency.
Roll on the Autumn because as a true Rugby fan I will be shouting for all the home nations!
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emarald star.
You obviously cared enough to write a reasonably long rant about it. But I suspect you are too blinkered to see the inherent irony in your own post.
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Yes, Ireland messed it up at the end but i don't think we really deserved it anyway, hopefully this loss will put some fire in our bellies when we go over for the WC, do to France what they did to us!
The cricket cheered us up no end!
To all the people saying England have the WC won - am i mistaken or were you whipped by Ireland and Wales??
In fact the only team that Wales could beat? At least you guys are optimistic!
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Emerald Star did my ears deceive me or did the Italians not boo you off the pitch at half time on Sat and back on again for the second half?!
I also find it funny that you seriously consider Ireland to be the only 6N team capable of beating France when Scotland managed a win against them last year and England this. Oh and didn't Wales do it the year before that! Care to remind us non Irish fans how many times it is that you have beaten the French in the past decade or so?
Selective hearing and memory I suspect! As they say pride comes before a fall, looks like come September we'll all be back here reading a whole new heaps of Irish what ifs.
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guy 89. Wat are you on son??!! the 'irish' ouburst against the scotish???? i think you have your teams mixed up there mate. The scots nevere left o'gara in peace in that first half, and when o'gara scored your dirty full back came up and started giving him a run for it??? just cause use can't win a game, no need to give us grief for it...
Then odriscoll gets done by the ref for sticking up for his team mate (ogara) who was getting hit with late tackles left right n centre from 2nd rows, what do you expect odriscoll to do??! sit n watch??!! you need to get your facts right mate
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I always wondered why the Australians & New Zealanders always keep referring to the English as "whinging poms" but it all make sense now. Just because you're once proud rugby nation is in the middle of a deep chasm,with an awful team, you now find it necessary to attack a far smaller rugby nation like Ireland (only our 4th most popular field sport)which has had little success over the past century, but is doing ok recently,( now whose got the chip on their shoulder hey)
And as for the Scots, will yous stop whinging aswell, your just jumping on your master's bandwagon.
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Just spent last 25 minutes reading the comments over the last few days about the finale to the 6 Nations & my feeling is that this facility is like being in a soccer chat room. We're better than you..no we're better than you..no we're better than you. It was the best finale to a 6N in years & whether you're a Scot who nearly turned over Ireland & gave France a hell of a scare, Welsh who turned over England,English who turned over France or Irish who went so close to winning the 6N we should all be proud of the rugby we played & I genuinely hope one of us is celebrating holding aloft the Webb Ellis trophy & I for one will not be back on here critiscising whoever has won it for being chokers or arrogant or whatever other terms were thrown up earlier...good luck to you all.
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.. Big Pity the mentality of some supporters on this blog. Purdy's comments #34 for example would have english players cringe quicker than a rendition of Ireland call.. especially one of England's new outhalfs whose parents are irish.
Personally I was cheering for England against France as I generally do for the underdog team. With comments like his and others on this blog, makes me wonder why I bother. Oh well, better rise above it. October is a while away with plenty more games to play and conditioning to do before then. I Will be watching NZ versus the italians and should be clapping along to italian national anthem like 17,000 irish supporters were this weekend in Rome.
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I had the best St. Pats day ever! What a finale to a fantastic tournament that brought thrills, spills and amazing entertainment!
I cried, I cheered and I drank to a fantastic Irish Italian game an edge of the seat scottish french game and a glorious win at the end for wales. They really are a great side.
I love rugby and i love ireland. I wish they had beaten the french in croke park but there you go! The french won and deserved to win the championship. As Denis Hickie said yesterday, we can't expect others to do our work for us.
I revelled in the fantastic dancing display our backs gave us yesterday. What fantastic rugby! I delighted in the English Fine win against France. I cheered the scots and welsh on yesterday! The Italians are really coming on and making this tournament the best in the world and to the French Congratulations!
But guys as an Irish person who has grown up in the era of "arra sure we gave it our best shot" you cannot blame us for loving and talking up our team! We love the game and we have the most exciting team in the NH at the moment. They played thrilling rugby this tournament and some not so thrilling. We are just so delighted.
Arrogance does not sit well with irish people. We want to express our feelings of absolute joy and optimism! That is all we are doing! Allow us our euphoria!
Here is to a great world cup and that one of the NH teams gets it, cause either way i will be rooting for the NH!! Come on one of us will beat the ABs!!!
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99 hodgey.
I think the knee jerk has undone you!
You will notice I said the ridiculous outburst FOLLOWING the Scotland game. The one I am referring to is the unfounded and unsubstantiated accusation of "attempted murder". Not my words.
As for all the your team, you and use (sic, I'll make allowances for English not being your first language). I'm not a Scot so your outburst is very badly directed.It's possible to be annoyed by unfair behaviour without being partisan!
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Well said Katie i couldnt put it better than that
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The only thing to separate arrogance and confidence is winning or losing, its that simple.
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Well I've read dozens if not hundreds of these messages over the past few weeks, and the most dominant theme seems to be to put Ireland down at every opportunity, and the main culprits are the English fans(I think it's their national passtime) but only they dont seem to realise it,(weird),and indeed the Scots (which I think is just sours grapes after O'Gara-gate),if Scotland managed to win a few games, then I might respect them more .
I've now had to completely revise my thoughts when it comes to the WC, those bitter and twisted fans have completely turned me off their rugby teams probably for ever.
As for this whole cetlic botherhood charade between Ireland & Scotland it's a load of gargage, I dont believe in it one bit, it's all spin.
PS, hope Wales and Italy have a great World cup, decent fans those Welsh and Italians.If the French make the final against any of the SH then I hope they win it, it would be good for the 6N.
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oh dear i seem to have really upset our irish friends with my observation that ireland have on numerous occassions in recent years failed to deliver when it matters most. With such occassions being in 2002 against england, the WC qtr final against france in 2003, the grand slam 'decider' against france in 2005 aqnd another grand slam 'decider' in 2007 against france. These faliures by the irish team to perform well when it matters most are simply fact and surely reflect more on this group of irish players than on my rugby knowledge? This of course does not mean ireland are not a good side - they are! Or that they are not one of the strongest teams in the NH - they are! But they could and maybe should have achieved more than they have given the group of players they have had over the last 6 or 7 years! That they havent is due to the limited game plan ireland generally employs -im afraid a few tries against italy cant reverse 100 years of spoiling and scavenging!! Also none of the apparently enraged irish rugby fans on here appear to have noticed that this has been your 'golden era' - and they still havent won anything meaningful - fact! After the WC this year this team will be ageing and need to be broken up - fact! A couple of triple crowns and a couple of WC quarter finals - not much to crow about from a 'golden era'! Sorry but there's nothing been written on here to change the fact that this ireland team are chokers - i know it hurts but face up to it its the truth!
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sorry was i reading a rugby or soccer blogsite? I have a feeling some of the comments were written just to raise the hackles. Can we not respect our fellow man? Do we have to boo and whistle if someone is taking a penalty?
Will snooker be the last professional game where if someone commits a foul they stick their hand up and admit it?
Can we not be happy for our opponents in their victory, and console them when they lose?
Is winning now the be all and end all?
I have just finished watching a fabulous six-nations, with some great and woeful rugby, and all six nations have something to be proud of, and something to regret.
So roll on the World Cup.
By the way I do not know who is hyping Ireland to win the WC, must be the British Media.
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leigh it's completely fine to criticise the irish but you'd want to look at your own team before shooting your mouth off at ireland. anyway i lve the way the fact that ireland have win the triple crown 3 times in 4 years means to the other fans it's not so important anynmore. whatever. we'll take a trophy seeing as it's been a while since england scotland or wales have won one (altho wales got the grand slam). still not really upset by your comments leigh as in fact it's kind of funny that you persist in calling us chokers! it's also funny tho ppl apparently hate brain moore, they can't stop copying him! to say we havent won anything meaningful is plain wrong and in fact delighted with our triple crowns and this year too! seeing as we finished joint top in points with france! i'm fine with constructive critiscism- ireland can play better than they did this 6n but the fact is belittling what we have won and what we are proud of having won and calling us chokers is just petty and not constructive!
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agree with #109. This appears more like a soccer blog than a rugby one. One thing that makes rugby so distinct from soccer is the sense of respect that players and fans have for each other. This blog may aswell not be here if it's just going to be a case of my team is better than yours etc...
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Everyone claiming that Ireland have no chance of wining the world cup should not even bother watching the event. I am guessing that they can only see a NZ victory. Why even watch it then!!!! Both Ireland and France have a great chance of wining. They are both going through a purple patch and have exciting payers. Anything can happen on the day as SA showed in 1995. A NZ/Ire final is highly probable. The Ire/France pool winner will face the Scottish 'powerhouse' and then either SA or Aus, both of which are beatable.
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Got to agree with #16 I was at the Scotland game. If you'd of heard the version of Irelands call played. It was some awful 'Country 'n'Irish' rubbish played too fast but, not fast enough that it was over before we had to hear it which would have been the ideal solution. The song lacks in focus the song has no real pride and passion just as the game was lacking in the aforementioned. I'm not sure what the protocall is but the scots band did not play it was some bad recording played over the spekers. I'm sure had it been a real athem the Scots would of showed it more respect and had the band play it. The band at Irelands home games play the athem of both sides. Irelands Call is the type of song (in most of the version I've heard) that shoulsd be on a CD with a donkey and cart on the cover.
No recently penned politicial correct rubbish like Irelands Call will ever stur the emotions like a countries anthem. Granted we have to consdier the feelings of the players from up north (whose anthem is God Save the Queen, as long as it's going on it's still odd that any free and sane person would want to sing a song in worship of another humna being).
But we do have better songs The Fields of Athenry for example, there are many great old Irish songs that I'm sure our friends in the north would not be offended by.
On the subject of song's if Leinster ever want to have the kind of support Muster enjoy they may want to condsider a change in tune. Molly Malone. Lets compare to The Fields of Athenry and Stand up and Fight. I rest my case. As mush as I support Leinster the idea of standign in the corner of a stand home or away and singing that silly silly wet rag of a song is beyond me.
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Clearly a great reader of the game, Leigh. Lovely to see you revel so much in the Irish team's misfortunes.
A little bitter and sanctimonious and mean spirited.
The fact is that Ireland didn't choke this year against France. They were beaten by a better team, somewhat unluckily.
It is easy to call someone favourites and then label them chokers when they don't win. The fact is that anyone who knew anything about rugby wouldn't have put Ireland as favourites this year. They were in with a good shout, sure.
Ireland haven't beaten France in so long now, it is embarrassing. France has a team that can exploit Ireland's weak front row and they do it year on year. They have the ammunition to use the extra possession that gets coughed up. The only other team that has successfully beaten us up front is Italy but they have nothing outside as we saw on Saturday. God help us all when they find some backs.
Some of the other occasions of Irish choking that you quote are as uninformed. Lansdowne Road against England in 2002. Didn't those guys win the world cup the following year? Again they were the better team and deservedly beat Ireland that day.
Your other examples just seem to be listing every Irish loss in the last four years and have no bearing whatsoever on the quality of the opposition. Losing to good teams isn't always choking. Sometimes a team is just beaten.
Just because you read something in the media and throw it down on a blog like it was your idea that doesn't necessarily make it true.
I don't think Ireland will win the world cup. I think New Zealand will. Unless they choke, of course....
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I cannot bite my tongue any longer & I鈥檓 unsure as to who I鈥檓 more disappointed in, The Irish on here bleating about "bad luck" (makes us sound like sore losers), The Irish who are biting the English bait by getting annoyed at some of their provocative comments or the others (mainly English) who seem to revel in the fact that we came up just short.
I think it鈥檚 plainly clear that France and Ireland are by far and away the best teams in the NH. If some England fans get some crumbs of comfort by us not winning the title or by calling us chokers then so be it, I can live with that. Leigh (post 108) seems particularly pleased that we have failed to win again, but he has made a few mistakes in his post. He seems to like his FACTS & points out that 鈥渢he Irish have failed to perform well when it matters. Correct me if I鈥檓 wrong but I would think that every game the Irish play 鈥渕atters鈥 does it not? For 4 years in a row now Ireland have beaten England, 2 years now we鈥檝e lost the title on points. Between 99 and 02 England failed to win the grand slam on each occasion. Did they choke? I wouldn鈥檛 have said so. These sorts of agonising defeats should be what make a team stronger, and that certainly was the case with the 2003 England team.
I think the world cup might come around just a year too soon for Ireland, but I can appreciate where we are going. Leigh also seems to make a point of the fact we have a few fella鈥檚 around 30 in the team. What he is not allowing for is the fact that Ulster & Leinster have some terrific young players on their books at the moment, the under 20鈥檚 just clinched the grand slam and I鈥檓 sure Munster have a good few forwards waiting in the wings! Leigh finally reveals his complete lack of rugby knowledge by declaring that 鈥淚reland generally employs a limited game plan鈥 and says 鈥渁 few tries against Italy can鈥檛 reverse 100 years of spoiling and scavenging (has he been around that long?!)鈥. What about the 3 tries we scored on mostly the back foot against Wales? Or the 4 Tries against England? Limited game plans don鈥檛 allow for that kind of thing. I think we have a nice blend of powerful back 5 play (would like a more dynamic front row) and expansive rugby when the backs get the ball and the 17 tries we scored throughout the 5 games would seem to back that up.
France are certainly more then a match for us and Argentina are very strong at the moment so I do not think it鈥檚 a foregone conclusion that we will even qualify. We will have to play well in both matches as it could come down to points again. If we were to beat France I doubt that anyone would fall over themselves with shock. What concerns me (and why so many England fans feel the need to comment on our WC chances is beyond me. I really couldn鈥檛 care less about the English unless we had to play them) is our ability to put back to back performances together, consistency really is the key in a WC, although on the flip side we do seem to be able to get results when we don鈥檛 play to our best- and every good team needs to have that ability.
All in all I think it鈥檚 a measurement of how far we鈥檝e come that we can be disappointed with finishing as runners up behind the 2nd favourites for the WC, and by 4 points difference too. Yes we have a talented pool of players, but so do France so it is no disgrace by any means.
As for England, & I think most Irish fans will agree, Ireland have bigger fish to fry.
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It appears Ireland are the chokers and not the Scots as previously alledged.
Or maybe it's just that the Irish team are as ridiculously overhyped as St Patrick's day.
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#3 David. You can't use a Home / Away excuse as to why Ireland lost the champs, they lost a home game!!!.
And when your'e 35 points up you shouldn't let in last minute tries home or away.
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Ireland are chokers. Nothing matters outside the world cup and Ireland will shown up as the chokers they are. NZ to win the world cup, Ireland to go home early, like the utter losers they are.
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The Irish, French and the British nations are second rate rugby teams. None of the 6 nations teams will feature in the world cup final. The Welsh are boring me with tales of the past. Who cares? The Irish are decent players, but chokers. The English are full of hot air. Scotland are rubbish and the French, the best of an average lot.
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are ireland fans not allowed to have a moan about refereeing decisions the same way the scots english french italians and welsh are allowed! those last 2 comments are disgraceful. typical attitude to the the teams that didnt perform in the 6nations that the wc is the only thing that matters! i would rather be an irish "loser" "choker" etc etc than an english or scottish one any day! absolutely pathetic.
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Clive Woodward said last time something like: 'To win the WC you have to be able to win in your bad days as well as on your good days'.
Sadly SA v NZ seems inevitable on current form, only England and France have squads big enough to challenge throughout the tournament and they are not currently good enough to push the SH teams.
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Clive Woodward said last time something like: 'To win the WC you have to be able to win in your bad days as well as on your good days'.
Sadly SA v NZ seems inevitable on current form, only England and France have squads big enough to challenge throughout the tournament and they are not currently good enough to push the SH teams.
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I think everyone needs to place this 'choker' tag in the correct context.
England were accused of a similar failing in the years prior to the world cup where they lost one grand slam decided after another before they got it right and won both the Grand Slam and the WC.
NZ have had the same charge leveled at them at every WC since the first.
In fairness, there was some justification to this lable as in each case England lost the final match of the Championship, and in NZ's case, they were probably the No 1 team in the world going into most of the WC's but couldn't justify their ranking.
Irelands situation is much more complex than these examples. They have won as many key games in the final minutes (V Eng in 2006 for the TC, V Scotland in 2007 for the TC) as they have lost (V France in 2007, V Aus in 2003 WC group match), therefore I don't agree that it is appropriate to lable them as chokers - I think it is just a convenient lable for people who do not look closely enough at the situation.
When looking at the Irish team and it's performances, you really need to split the period into before the 2005 Autumn Ints and the period from then on. Prior to the 05 Aut Ints, Irelnd played a Munster style rugby based on pressure, a good kicking game and grinding out results. It was successful to a degree, but it's shortcomings were also apparent as we were unable to put away teams that were not as talanted. I think the matches V France and Wales in 2005 were seminal in changing the teams style.
The 'sea-change' occurred in the 05 Aut Ints where the current open flowing style has it's origins. The current team really needs to be judged in terms of their development since then. The 05 Aut Ints were the harsh beginings, this continued into the begining of the 06 6nations V France where they conceded 40 points before their game clicked together. Since then there have been 4 defeats. The French match was lost in the final minutes through an inability to gather a restart, the 2 away NZ matches were lost in the final 10 minutes and the away Auz match was lost in the final 20 minutes. All this suggests that Ireland are there or there abouts with the best teams in the world. At the same time, it suggests that it is now down to whether Ireland will be able to grasp the opportunities to close out games as to whether they will be in the shake-up for the WC or not. Keeping Irelands key players fit will be essential.
Ireland beating France in CP would not have made this team a great team, similarly, failing to do so does not make them a poor team.
All the indicators are that Ireland are one of the teams that have a chance of winning the WC. Player fitness and performance will decide how they get on.
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To all who mock the Irish Team.
It will be a cold day in hell before any success becomes of any of your teams.
Ray# 116
It will also be a cold day in hell before Scotland are challenged for the wooden spoon.
Ted Egan #118
Go back to blogging on the tennis. Rugby is not your thing.
Enjoy the World Cup everyone. I know the French and Irish will.
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steve (#42) said regarding ireland "they belong in second place and long may it continue"
why the anti irish sentiment? i agree they belonged in 2nd place this season. but i would be happy if you could explain why you hope we never win?
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ted egan (#118) wrote about ireland: "like the utter losers they are"
why the anti-irish sentiment?
it baffles me.
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Couldn't agree more with comment #124, all 3 of the other Home Nations teams are woeful anyway, so why should we worry about what they think? Frankly, beating them continually (bar one slip in '05) is becoming rather tedious.
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tim your comments are spot on! cant believe some of the comments on this page! calling us losers is horrible and really sad! i also must make clear that most decent fans from the british isles are probably not thinking along the lines of people like ted egan and ray who arent true sports fans! it's just coming across as really bitter lads! people can criticise the irish performance in a decent way but to be honest if they are scottish,welsh or english then they'd be better off looking at their own dismal showing over the years before they start preaching about ireland being chokers! (and yes i know scotland beat france last year)
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France is guilty. Guilty to have win. Guilty to fight with heart until the end. You believe it was easy to score against scots,Irish forget that against them Ireland win by only one point.
French are guilty for the sadness of Irish people because it was the day of St Patrick and they want an historic day for fun and joy. In the same way, at croke park it was symbolic. I respect this even if I don't understand why, I don't argue about this, I respect. But Rugby is a sport just a sport, Ireland has proved that it was very great team, France too ,It's difficult to tell which team is the best . I'm disappointed by the Irish fans reactions , very disappointed.Instead of me Rugby is not Football, not Hooliganism but fraternity. The only winner should be the Rugby.Irish fans far away have banter an irish player named Trevor Brennan, Mister Brennan,His career is over now I'm very sad for him, Why ? Rugby is a sport, a fraternity not a war ,not a hate.
P.S. excuse my poor english, I do what I can
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Ireland are a very good team 鈥 certainly good enough to win a grand slam. However, we do not have the depth in players to do so 鈥 without our key players (we all know who they are) we suffer massively. The loss of BOD against France was massive and cost us the game, no question about that. A fully fit Irish team is to be feared. That will determine how we do in the RWC.
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Re: Post 115 - TipperaryFlyer wrote: "As for England, & I think most Irish fans will agree, Ireland have bigger fish to fry."
We already fried that fish, it tasted like smoked kippers and left a bad taste in the moouth, a bit like most of the English comments on this blog!!
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Some Shocking postings lads, leigh and Purdy, no need for em, negative rubbishing, I'm Irish and fell in love with this tournament at an early age, in the Mid late 80's, when Ireland were a woodens Spoon team, but i watched everygame, be it Ntamak scoring trys for fun against us, ieuen Evans (excuse the spelling)doing the same, Guiscott, Carling, Johnson and Wilko or the great Gavin hastings hurting us with huge kicks. i watched with hope in my Heart that Ireland would upset, as back then that is all we could do, but we had great players too, and to see Simon Geoghan or Brendan Mullins cross in the Corner for a try was all we could grasp onto in those days.
Now we actually have a team of great players and they get slated for coming second by less than a score (unconverted Try), fair play to France for winning the best 6 Nations ever, but as pointed out by one of my Fellow Bloggers they had a bad day at the office too against an English team that flattered to Disceive. Every team in the Comp had atleast one great showing and this adds to the tournament
on Irelands mistakes or arrogance, Fair play to them for going for a try from the own 22 after the 80 were up, it wasn't out Disrespect to the Italians, it was to sleep easy that the did everything in there power to Win by a sufficent margin, it wasn't to be, when Italy turned over Possession they didn't boot out the ball either, and fair play to them for that, it wasn't for the French or the Scoreboard they did this it was for themselves, and again fair play to them, Troncon to me is in with a shout for player of tournament, and that says alot for Italy.
Scotland although getting humbled by France ran over 3 try's and when they went over in the last ten, it wasn't for their neighbours they did it, it was for Pride, sadly Elvis went over at the end and that was that, but i will say this Ibanez's French men knew what had to be done and did it, they had the advantage, but they did it.
anyone that said Ireland should have put the ball out, ask yourselves What would France, NZ, SA have done if they had been put in the exact situation, France would have ran it too and i believe that.
Can Ireland Win a WC, yes, but we need our key players fit and this i'm afraid will be difficult, without BOD, POC and ROG it'l be near impossible,
let us use this blog to share great moments rather than insult the other teams in the tournaments, our respected teams don't deserve it, for me Ireland did me proud, heres Hoping for a good showing from the NH and one of us to Win
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At least justice was finally done on St Patrick's Day. The Irish blew a chance to set an almost impossible points target for the French in their earlier game against Italy. Scotland gave them some hope by scoring a late try at the Stade de France, and then the French were awarded a dodgy try in added time by the incompetent Mr Joubert.
I couldn't have scripted it better! I hope the immature, unsporting Mr O'Sullivan has had sleepless nights since then. You never know, he may now choose to believe in karma and belatedly apologise to the Scottish team he so disgracefully maligned.
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Yes Saturday was disapointing but not as disapointing as The "not turning up until it was too late" performances against France, Scotland , and Wales. I feel that the "never die wondering" attitude was applied to all 5 games Ireland would have been confirmed without a shadow of doubt. I don't want to sound too down heart and hard on Ireland, as I remember when to finish 4th in the old 5 nations was seen as a good tournament for us, but now we have the players and the set up to impose ourselves as one of the Rugby powers in the World. Rugby is on a high in the country and we should use this to carry the game forward. I know for a fact that there is still a dislike for rugby in GAA circles, but if I am not mistaken GAA has its BIG events ( Sorry for forgetting National league and Club championships( in the Summer as rugby is played in the Winter. GAA skills can make for good rugby players. A combined populations of 5 milllion can be utilised to boost the game in the whole Island.
I watched Ireland against England and also new deep down that we would struggle against Scotland ( the best spoiling Team in the 6N when they want).
As for the world cup I feel that we need to ask all the players to be leaders of men If POC is out and BOD as well the team seems to struggle and look rudderless ( bring back A Foley ) and inept. The players of munster have ground out results when there backs are up against the wall and Leinster and Ulster players don't seem to have the mental strength as the Munster.Come September I feel that Ireland can and will surprise some pundits and plat to there potential. Semi-final spot I feel.
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As "Oscar Wilde said it's better to be talked about than not"
All this attention and flak that the Irish team is receiving from the sore Brits, can only mean one thing, they're blatantly jealous that we have a genuine chance in the WC, along with NZ,AUS,SA & FRA, while poor little England are been left behind, far behind, in the wake of the BIG 5. At the end of the day all this criticism, doesnt amount to a hill of beans (casablanca). I'll tell you something else English fans, listen to what the sports media in the SH are saying about your losing team, and their prospects, you're simply not been taken seriously by anyone OK, outside your own deminishing jurisdiction. So it's not just the Irish (and many Welsh & French) who dont rate you much.(Incidently Graham Henry said NZ hardest home game of the past two seasons was against Ireland)
There should be a blog to discuss the many deficiencies (which are deep)of the English team, though I wouldn't be surprised if you then suddenly all lost the use of your fingers and went quiet, because it's obvious you're sore losers and hating the fact that we are a far superior side (get use to it).We'll win in Twickenham again next season (5 in a row).
PS. If yous put all this pent up frustration and bitterness and aimed it constructively at the "jokers of twickers" you might start improving and be taken serious again(unlikely though).
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immature and unsporting? eos!do you even realise the irony of your statement? that was possibly one of the most unsporting comments ive ever resd! being glad that ireland lost the championship because of the rog incident- really takes the biscuit in unsportsmanship.
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immature and unsporting? eos!do you even realise the irony of your statement? that was possibly one of the most unsporting comments ive ever resd! being glad that ireland lost the championship because of the rog incident- really takes the biscuit in unsportsmanship.
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Enough about the supposedly 'Maligned' Scottish team.
Go on Utube and look at the incident again.
There was no incident involving Hines just as we were not misled about WMD in Iraq.
The sixnations was excellent this year and I can't wait for the WC.
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I a an Offaly man (or a Bifo as affectionately known back home). I see major similarities here between the present Irish rugby team and early Offaly success in both Gaelic football and hurling. Over the years it took Offaly time to earn respect from the more 'traditional' Irish counties in both football and hurling respectively.
Since we began to win All-Irelands in both codes, Offaly have won more titles at All-Ireland level than any other county in the country. We are the only county to hold All-Stars in every position in both codes of Gaelic games. We had to beat respect into certain counties such as Kilkenny in hurling/ Dublin and Kerry in football, until these dominant counties began to respect us.
England/Wales and France like us, but don`t truly respect Irish rugby because they still see us as the little brothers of international rugby. When you beat another team enough times respect is gained. Until we win at least a Championship, a G Slam or a World Cup we will not gain this respect and I don`t blame them.
I believe this Irish team has the capabilities to capture this World Cup- but until they truly start believing in themselves, they will always be second best. They may hammer England every now and again but so what? What of Australia, France, South Africa and New Zealand- thats where the true greatness lies. Talk is cheap however- ask Kerry in 1982 (5 in a row) Limerick in 1994 (5 points up in 1994 with 5 minutes to go and were beaten by 6)
To reach the stars forget what the Wales, Englands, New Zealands think of us and lets go and kick some ass. Australia for me are great role models and show a great never say die attitude! Outside of the the top three in the southern hemisphere and France, the rest are paper weights. Lets quit pussyfooting around and go win this W C- not to gloat about it, but because we can. And we definately can- the only limitations are in our own minds!
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re 135 & 136
You're not the smartest, are you munster? Apart from posting the same comment twice, you obviously don't read too well either.
Nowhere in my comments do I make any reference to being glad that Ireland lost the 6 Nations because of the O'Gara incident at Murrayfield. Like all true rugby fans, I'm delighted that O'Gara has fully recovered from what was obviously a frightening and potentially life threatening accident. My issue is not with O'Gara but with O'Sulivan, who made disgraceful allegations about the Scottish team, and who still not apologised despite NO EVIDENCE being found which backs up his allegations. That's why I view him to be immature and unsporting, and also why I enjoyed the poetic justice of Ireland losing the championship in the way they did on Saturday. I hope that's clear enough even for someone as intellectually challenged as you, munster.
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Enough about the supposedly 'Maligned' Scottish team.
Go on Utube and look at the incident again.
There was no incident involving Hines just as we were not misled about WMD in Iraq.
The sixnations was excellent this year and I can't wait for the WC.
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Enough about the supposedly 'Maligned' Scottish team.
Go on Utube and look at the incident again.
There was no incident involving Hines just as we were not misled about WMD in Iraq.
The sixnations was excellent this year and I can't wait for the WC.
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wow talk about touching a raw nerve! You tell a few home truths bout the irish rugby team and suddenly every rugby following irishmanpops up to defend their malinged nations 'honour'! Have no problem with people being partisan but its bit rich to be lectured on the fine points of the oval ball game from followers of one of the least successful nations in rugby history. you gotta admit that one measley grand slam in your entire history is a pretty dismal return for 130 years of effort - FACT (yes i do like my facts)! Never been past the wc qtr finals - fact - even wales and scotland have managed a semi each! No championship win since the twinkletoed trevor ringland's days - fact! No win in over 100 years of trying against the all blacks - fact! No dont need to be a centenerian to know that just read the history books mate, but then reading such books will make painful reading for followers of irish rugby!
Yes you do have a good crop of youngsters - this season - but where are they going to play? It now looks increasingly likely that the welsh regions will join up with their english bretheren at some point in the near future - so bringing the dire celtic league to a thankful end and thus leaving these 'gifted' youngsters with only a few games between each other every season!
Face up to it my irish friends you've repeatedly messed up chance after chance of breaking your grand slam duck and you've blown it pure and simple! Anyway here's to another century of spoiling and scavenging from the men in green (jack kyle, tony o'reilly, mike gibson, tony ward and dennis hickie excepted of course)
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Re springford:
ROG was choked off camera in the ruck against Scotland. Do not be so inept as to believe no malice occurred. Scotland are no saints. It will be remembered though, and N Hines will know to be careful when he meets Ireland again.
EOS would not cite an incident unless there were valid grounds for doing so. What little you know of karma when you wish sleepless nights on someone. If you knew better you would know you were wishing it on yourself!
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Dear Andrew,
when you start a blog about rugby, could you ask the boys and girls to stop making petulant comments about each other, it makes finding good comments hard to find. I thought this blog was about Saturdays win and how the French spoiled our party. Not how Ireland will never win anything, just because we haven't as yet won the World Cup. To those who gave proper insightful comments, thank you. And for those who were just malicious, grow up. Rugby is just a game.
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Springford,
all your "facts" are well acknowledged. But a historians job is to look beyond the facts at the causes. In the amateur era the irish team was truly that...as was the management. Howabout looking at the professional era...especially the last 5-7 years and we are talking about a
different irish team....they may not beat the AB's in the WC...but that day is coming.
As for the dire Celtic league...it seems to have bread a fair bit of European success...not bad for an island with a combined population of around 5 million, where rugby is probably the 4th sport.
Yet again, and as others have pointed out...what have England done since 2003...diddly squat...and it looks to stay that way for a while to come.
Springford...EOS has nothing to apologise for...he did not malign the Scotland squad...he called them honourable...he simply stated that his player was choked...which we could all see on the footage and still photos...or maybe ROG faked the whole thing.
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To springford and anybody who still thinks EOS owes Scotland an apology:
Go to the youtube.com and view the following two video clips:
1. Ronan O'Gara injury against Scotland
2. The Ronan O'Gara incident in SlowMo
In the beginning of the first clip, examine closely at O'Gara's two legs. O'Gara was tackled onto the ground, two seconds later, his two legs were clearly seen to start kicking, and six seconds later, after some more desperate kicking, his two legs went flat on the ground, motionless; presumingly he had become unconscious. Therefore, there were only eight seconds between when his body hit the ground and he became unconscious. The alleged choking couldn't last more than six or seven seconds.
O'Gara is 183 cm tall and 83 kg in weight. What kind and how much the force needs to be used to choke a person of O'Gara's body build to the degree of unconsciousness within 7 seconds? If it's accidental, then could the sheer weight on O'Gara's throat actually knock him out within 7 seconds? One would imagine though, the weight on the throat would be more evenly spread out. Besides, it must have come from a body part that somehow locked in to the shape of the throat. You wouldn't think that somebody's flat chest or wobbly belly would be able to inflict such a damage as shutting off a strong man's air supply completely within 7 seconds.
Or, this incident has to be a result of more forceful, downward, penetrating power over his throat to knock him out within 7 seconds. Therefore, an intentional foul play must have occurred. Even though I am not a forensic expert, by common sense, the verdict seems obvious.
View the second clip to find out the player who was closest to O'Gara's head and upper body in the ruck. He appeared to wear the blue jersey.
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147 truthfinder (ironic name that!)
And Princess Diana was murdered by Prince Phillip. JFK was shot by at least 3 martians on the grassy knoll.
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Truthfinder, that's a strange name for one who makes up tall tales. Ireland deserved to miss out on the championship and EOS should be charged with bringing the game into disrepute. Ireland have no chance of winning the world cup, allez les blues!
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are the sctos still bringing up the rog incident? how ridiculous ans unreasonable are they? altho from what ive seen the english arent much better. i cant believe they are still demanding an apology from eos. if youre going to bing it up again- i will too. it could well have been an accident but something did happen. why would ronan o gara be put into the recovery position if nothing had happened. in denial scottish fans. and eddie o sullivan didnt slag off the scottish the way you "fans" are slagging off the irish. pathetic and meanspirited.
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leigh whatever about home truths the fact is that most of the so called "home truths" are in fact nasty and malicious comments about the irish team. yes ireland didnt win the championship but throwing around the word choker doesnt make it true. in fact it's the opposite and are we supposed to just let malicious comments and unreasonable rants about the irish team go without at least making our own comments on the matter. the fact is that most of these comments are not constructive critiscism rather an excuse to have a go at a team of players that most of the other nations would love to have playing for them. are the irish supposed to just let petty and vindictive comments pass. and i'm sorry but calling someone a choker isnt a home truth.if we're going to talk about chokers what about the english team- who despite winning the wc have done sweet fa since then! we have pretty much the same squad of players since the last wc and i think we'll do well. not necesssarily winning it but i wouldnt be writing us off just yet. no offence to real englsih fans-the majority of you have been pretty decent and i do reckon will be back at the wc but to those who make nasty comments about the irish team (not those who have genuine concerns- there's a difference)you'd do better to concentrate on your own failings and not ours.that goes to any other "fans" too.
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147 truthfinder
Um 7-8 seconds is about how long it takes to knock anyone out, regardless of size, if it's done properly.
It has nothing to do with air supply but to do with oxygen supply to the brain. If you apply pressure to the correct side of the neck you can very quickly stop oxygen getting to the brain which causes loss of consciousness in a few seconds (about 8 is the shortest I've seen but 5 is the shortest knock out in this manner I've heard of from a reliable source).
I's hard enough to achieve properly in training after years of experience, and if it was achieved on a rugby field intentioanlly I'd be gobsmacked. 999-1 it was an accident, and if it was intentional it was very lucky indeed.
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There is no pleasing some people....
Had Ireland won the Six Nations from France by however many points last Saturday we would still have the same mealy mouths calling us 'chokers' for losing the Grand Slam in the last minute at Croke Park.
In my opinion only three teams emerge with any credit from this year's tournament: France for overcoming the thrashings they received last autumn from the All Blacks, Italy for discovering their form in the second half against England and taking it into all of their remaining games, and Ireland for turning in some exhilarating performances and producing quite possibly the match of the tournament against the Italians.
Roll on the summer tours, the Tri-Nations and all that will follow. The 2007 Six Nations has now been written into the history books, and the spiteful and pitiful should be left rooting through the dungheap for whatever nourishes them in their drab lives.
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I'm an Irishman and even though we have been foiled by france in points difference for two years running, i wouldn't change any of the points formats in the six nations. The tension experienced last saturday was amazing, it was just a pity we didn't sneak it. I think a bonus points format would ruin the competition.
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Some very bitter people commenting here, but it seems to be mostly those who finished third or below in the table.
The French deserved to win the championship. If Ireland had won, they too would have deserved it.
But this is typical of English 'sportsmanship'. If they are performing poorly, they will attack those who are better than them. Those England supporters who moaned about the Irish forward pass conveniently forget about Wilko's 'try' against Scotland. Bad decisions are made in rugby but had the Irish try have been spotted as forward and not awarded, they would still have won and come second.
But can you decide which side of the fence you are on - you say that we can't rely on 'ifs' but then do so yourselves in you own arguments.
Even if Ireland do win the WC you will still find a reason to say why it wasn't a 'proper' win. It's dull.
You need to be magnanamous in defeat and stop living in the past.
On a lighter note, congrats to the French on a well deserved win and well done to Italy who really made an impact on this tournament. A number of commentators have been asking if Italy deserve a place in this tournament - well I think the questions have been well and truly answered. In fact it was only Italy and France who played for the full 80 minutes of every game.
Roll on September
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depressing depressing depressing....
A bunch of sheep who follow one of the most idiotic men in the history of sports commentry and sports journalism. Has no one an original thought in their heads? Chokers? Can someone please explain to me where this comes out of? And where the evidence comes from that the irish team are arrogant?
Please look at comment 103. This is how the majority of irish people feel about their team and the teams of the NH. It really is getting to be like a soccer blog on here. With too much influence from the so called denizens of rugby(Brian Moore??? COME ON!!!). He may be a lawyer? but he still is no good as a public speaker or an insightful rugby commentator. A good one should be able to stand back and look at a game and inform not throw all his toys out of the pram when something happens he does not like.
Can we please put away all these disgusting, pathetic and frankly annoyingly childish comments and get back to discussing rugby honestly. Get over your wins and losses and get on with it!
Ill certainly be watching the world cup with interest and cheering on all the NH teams. But of course the one thats closest to my heart is Ireland. COME ON THE NH!!!
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Katie (156) it is depressing isn't it. All those posts that call people names like sheep and the originator of the blog an idiot.
Sound familiar at all?
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katie well said!
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As a Welshman, I would have to be honest and say that I am a bit envious of Irish success but from a wider perspective Ireland have been remarkably effective in sustaining huge improvements in their game from a small playing base - including recently the adoption of a more swift, attacking game-plan. Can these improvements be sustained? I think demographics may be significant. I'd say the band of players in the 24-32 bracket represent quite a substantial chunk of the population. Maybe this will change as the size of Irish family units decreases. I'd say to the Irish, just enjoy the wins and don't worry about the rivalry that success creates. The higher the stakes, the more exciting the games!
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Guy at 157
I did not call the originator of the blog an idiot! All my comments were directed at Brian Moore who has started all this resentment between fans of rugby which were before on the whole respectful of each others opinions.
In one foul swoop, Brian Moore has created bad feeling between fans. He belongs in the soccer world where this kind of journalism and commentry is welcomed.
Original thinkers dont just quote one journalist??? willy nilly and recycle it over and over again. Wow grab on to something and run with it!
We dont deny that we did not live up to our potential this year. I have no problem with that! Absolutely not! But, I would never disrespect fans for having a blind optimism for their team because that is what supporting your team is all about. But dissapointment does bring out the best in some and the worst in others. People react differently.
All this backbiting and general bitchiness(cause that is what it is) is DEPRESSING!
Come on everybody, back to rugby the game we all love hopefully.
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Guy
Forget the explanation to you. I've just read all the posts and you just seem to be there to wind everyone up. You did not make any original posts just reacted sarcastically to others posts.
So forget my explanation you dont deserve one!
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An Englishman here with some constructive and respectful comments.
Ireland did not win the 6N this year because they lost concentration at crucial times. It's not "choking", it's a lack of knowing how to kill a game off. It will come through these types of experiences, maybe come the WC.
Wales beat an inexperienced England outfit. Well done, Wales, you played very well. But where were you the rest of the 6N? Seems the English are the only catalysts for opposition teams to up their game.
England have definitely been on a steep learning curve since the WC and the Celts have wallowed in that lack of success; this is probably the reason for the recent comments from English people. I took it for years then come the hour, it was all worth it.
Yes, they relied on Wilko and Jonno but what WC-winning teams don't rely on a kicker and a lock? Think Australia and Eales, think NZ and Grant Fox/Whetton, think SA and Andrews/Stransky. To think you can win a WC without either is naive.
Look. Ireland are the strongest home union teams right now. But come the WC? They need to win consistently against top opponents home and away to prove themselves then time it all for the tournament and half a dozen hard games.
England did it. Can anyone else?
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paul mycroft- your comments are perfectly reasonable and valid! yes we do need to win consistently but one loss in 8 matches is pretty consistent i think (8 matches being the autumn internationals and 6 nations). however fair point made by u about the wc. yes we will have to play like we did v the aussies but i reckon we will at least make it put of our pool! and if we dont get anywhere we will still be proud of our team! to be honest i'd rather be ibn our group because if we had "easier" opponents we'd be under alot more pressure as it is we are the underdogs again and that's much better.
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Katie
Oh, I'm glad you explained that.
So, it was Brian Moore you were calling an idiot. Now that you've explained that it fully backs up your post about not calling people childish names!
I would suggest that Brian Moore is no idiot and probably knows a fair bit more about international rugby than many of the bloggers on here.
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If ireland were not in the group of death I would not be as worried about us making a semi final. As we are no doubt in top 4 in the world (as confirmed by IRB rankings). However unlike any other group ours has 3 top 10 teams (3 in top 6) and therfore it will be difficult to progress full stop and then the draw gives the second place team NZ in a quarter!! If we were in group instead of England we would be playing teams we have beaten in the last meeting up to semis so I would be confident.
Did any of the English folk watch Ireland's tour to NZ in June? Ireland were the better team in both tests in my view. We can challenge any team in the world which I don't think can be said for England, Wales or Scotland.
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guy if brian moore is so wise and knows so much about rugby then why does he come out with comments like "it doesnt matter if he's hurt he's french!" as a commentator you have to cop on and not make hare brained comments like that. granted there is a certain amount of bias from each commentator towards their team- davies for wales, wood for ireland and moore for england but you cant come out with comments like that! there would be outrage if a one of the other pundits said it about england! i dont really think he's that bad tho. if anyone has seen rte (irish channel) and george hamilton commentating- he makes brian moore look like the beat commentator in the world! irish fans will know ha! reckon bbc should poach will greenwood from sky. he's very good!
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munster girl.
On face value that comment written in black and white does sound bad. But it was clearly said as a tongue in cheek comment and you could hear the jokey tone in his voice as he said it. It's the sort of jokey comment you will hear all the time in a rugby environment.
But leaving that aside, you just can't gainsay the fact that he knows quite a bit about international rugby. That remains true whether you like him or his style or not.
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Why is everyone picking on the Irish, exactly what have we done to deserve all the bitterness? As for Ireland being bad in the past, we can't change what has happened but we can and are doing far better in the present and future. There's no point in dwelling on past inadequacies or glories, you're only as good as your team on the day, which has been proved numerous times this Six Nations by all teams. How about congratulating Italy on their championship performance instead of slagging off other teams. I'll be in France for the WC and I can't wait!
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We lost to France at Croker, the chapionship was over from there on in. I stood in Piazza Del Poppalo and even when Scotland ran in their last try, I somehow knew France would still do enough in the closing minute to secure the championship. You either beat France beyond reproach or you don't. You don't give them the opportunity to claw it back. Give the French a glimmer of hope, and they'll seize the opportunity.
The heartbreaking thing is that Ireland underperformed for the whole championship. We were lucky against Wales as there were some awful refereeing decisions. We still would have won but not by such a margin. We completely screwed up against France - we threw the game away in the first half and then mangled the closing minutes when we should have scraped a win. We should have beaten Scotland by at least 20 points. We threw away 12 points again Italy in the closing minutes.
Ireland need to learn to stay focussed for 80 minutes in EVERY game. No sitting back. No enjoying a large lead. High intensity, full aggressiong - for 80 minutes. Play like the All Blacks and you win silverware. Get complacent and you don't.
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We have to give it to guy(#167 and before) he knows an awful lot about rugby. That is why this particular blog is full of his insightful comments on the game and the different strategies and weaknesses which make particular teams better than others.
He has his own opinions and has them on his own. he does not have to get his opinions by just diagreeing with everyone else. He really does have a sharp mind and a razor sharp wit!!!
Well done guy, keep up the good work cause believe it or not im getting a great kick outta ya!!!
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Ireland are just an average team. I dont think NZ will be too worried about any of the teams in the 6 nations, except France. Don't forget how bad the Irish were against a very poor Scotish team. Dont forget all the forward passes that were over looked in the Italy game. Beating the Welsh and a poor English team is no great achievement.
I'm not from Ireland, but before this 6 nations, i thought they had a real chance at the world CUP. Now, however,i dont.Infact i have lost a lot of respect for the Irish and there supporters. Instead of admitting that they choked, The Irish are doing the "english" on it and making excuses.Why not address the issue?
It is amazing as a neutral,i'm not from any of the 6 nations, how arrogant the Irish have become. They sound just like the English fans.
So what have Ireland done to make the Irish sound like they are world beaters. From a neutrals point of view, the answer has to be NOTHING much, so far.
However, this Irish team still has potential. More potential than the boring Welsh, terrible Scots and the stagnant English. Maybe if the Irish address the tendancy to choke at important game points and addresses the issue of leadership on the field they may feature in the world cup semi's or final.
World cups are not won by making excuses and pompous attitudes. Get real Ireland, or face an early exit from the world cup.
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Read 156 and then read 170.
Great irony there. That was the point I was trying to make but somehow I reckon the author is just not going to get it.
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Re comment #143
That is utterly disgusting that you come on here & proclaim that Ireland deserved to lose the 6N. At no point did I or would I begrudge anyone winning a 6N or a WC title. When France went over for that last try it showed tremendous tenacity to keep going when other teams would have dropped & even though I was gutted I still had the manners to shake hands with the French man watching from the next table in the pub & congratulate him. I recognise the effort involved in winning the 6N in those circumstances & whether it was France, England or anyone else for that matter I still would not have been sore about it. Thats why these events are called sports, bitterness like that is unnecessary.
Previous blogs about Ireland being a country being used to sporting failure should recognise that we have had several boxing world champions such as McGuigan & Collins, a football team that has beaten some of the elite world teams in recent times, Italy, Germany, England even Brazil being turned over & we even had a cyclist who won the Tour de France, Giro d'Italia & the World Championships in 1987. We also have several gold medal winning athletes at Olympic games so I think to say we are used to Sporting failure is like coming on holiday to Ireland & expecting us all to have eye brows on our cheeks & wear green hats & smoke pipes while cutting turf. Move on people Ireland certainly has....
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muahhhhhahahaha
Keep going! Thanks guy! one a day just for me yeah?
Am i annoying you yet?
Just thought a bit of childish humour would really send you up?
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If u compare England (pop' 50m approx)against Australia (pop' 20m approx)over the past few years on the world scene across many different sports , only one conclusion can be reached, and that is that England's overhyped sportmen have been under achieving and choking for years, example cricket you have yet to win the WC as for the ashes, that's frankly embarrassing!!! the national soccer team,your national sport,you've only managed to reach one solitary final at the World cup or Euro championships again despite all the blind hype, tennis grand slam winners are non existent, ur golfers excluding Faldo 15years ago always choke in majors, and in countless Olympics yous never punch your wait.
The fact that a royal member, in Zara Philips was voted you're sports personality of the year for that ever popular high profile,common mans game EQUESTRIANISM really says it all, even then the horse does most of the work. Is she the best you can throw at the rest of us.
PS how many more years of hurt do you want.
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Some salt and vinegar with that chip, Bob?
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brisbane bob have you run out of steam yet? agree with many of your views but some are a bit extreme! yes the english soccer team and their fans are hilarious- every tournament they are under the misguided impression that they will win it and also that they have the right to win it. every year, they are kicked out by a much better team. this year's world cup being a great example. england were crap and went put because they were crap not because of ronaldo! but bob this is a rugby blog so i dont see what equestrianism or soccer has to do with anything! as for the cricket, if the ashes are nothing then why were australia hammered by england a few years ago.
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A bit late in commenting I know, however, I thought I would anyway.
The banter has been fun, and like many I seek my pleasures in any victory my team, has though limited this year(Wales).
This tournament has been scrappy, but in doing so has provided more excitement than any I can remember. So, I was dissappointed to read many of the partisan comments in this BLOG, particularly as my neighbours at the match, and in the bar later, were generally the opposition, and the conversation was usually balanced, good natured but not insulting.
For those of you who shared my experience of the tournament I look forward to meeting you either at the ground or a bar during the World Cup ... as for the rest of you ... I hope you will join me to.
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Well Mr O. I have not seen any sign of that
port coming my way after you lost our little
bet on the ireland england result ??????
Are you going to let me down >?????
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