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Scotland player ratings

  • Rob Hodgetts - 大象传媒 Sport journalist
  • 17 Mar 07, 04:25 PM

Rob Hodgetts London - France beat Scotland in an exciting match which all but clinched the Six Nations title for Les Bleus.

The Scots were clinging on at 20-14 down at half-time but were blitzed by a barrage of second-half scores, including Elvis Vermeulen's all-important last-gasp try.

See if you agree with my ratings of the Scotland team.

Paterson - 7: The captain played with his usual hustle and bustle and is becoming something of a talisman. Moved to fly-half when Parks was substituted and made a couple of good breaks. Sound in defence and his long pass set up prop Euan Murray's late try. Mixed day with the boot.

S Lamont - 7: Another good game for Scotland's stand-out back. Scored from his own tap-and-go penalty and launched several other promising attacks. Wrongly sin-binned when his brother Rory put in a late hit on David Marty.

Dewey - 6: Not much chance to shine against a combative flat-standing French midfield.

Henderson - 6: Struggled to have any creative input and largely anonymous in attack.

Walker - 6: Snatched the ball from the hands of Clement Poitrenaud to touch down off Dan Park's lofted cross-field kick. Otherwise had his hands full opposite the lively Vincent Clerc.

Parks - 5: Disappointing from the fly-half who was replaced by Paterson in the second half. His cross-kick set up Walker's early try but looked increasingly fallible.

Lawson - 7: Impressive stuff as the battle for the Scottish scrum-half spot intensifies. Broke clear following up his own chip-and-chase and enjoyed a hugely influential phase in the first half.

Kerr - 6: Plenty to worry about at scrum time opposite the combative Pieter de Villiers. Grafting effort around the field though. Replaced late on for Jacobsen.

Ford - 6: Line-out throwing mixed but involved in the loose and always willing to lay his body on the line for his country.

E Murray - 7: A stout defensive effort and an industrious performance from the cornerstone of the Scottish scrum. Popped up on the left wing to take Paterson's long pass for Scotland's late try.

Hines - 5: Comprehensively skinned by Cedric Heymans in midfield for France's first try. Lacklustre around the fringes though solid enough at line-out.

S Murray - 6: Not as effective as in past games and went off injured in second half. Replaced by Hamilton.

Taylor - 7: Superb defence from the Scottish blind-side, including one crucial hit on French lock Jerome Thion. Eager and involved in everything.

Beattie - 7: Industrious at the breakdown and tireless in defence but possibly overshadowed by Julien Bonnaire. Replaced by David Callam on 53 minutes.

Hogg - 6: Decent ball-carrying performance and good defensive effort but nothing eye-catching.

Replacements:

Hamilton - 7: Came on for the injured Murray seven minutes into the second half and did nothing to disgrace himself.

Callam - 6: Replaced Beattie on 53 minutes. Not been on long when he put in a massive late hit on Poitrenaud.

R Lamont - 6: On for fly-half Parks, but as a wing, with Paterson going to stand-off. His illegal tackle on David Marty led to his brother Sean being sin-binned.

Cusiter - 7: On for Lawson with 15 minutes to go. Some lively sniping around the rucks.

Hall - 6: Replaced Ford on 64 minutes.

Jacobsen - 6: On for Kerr after 64 minutes.



Comments  Post your comment

  • 1.
  • At 06:12 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • Hannah wrote:

think that Parks was good enough. Sean Lamont was fantastic as was Chris Cusiter when he came on. With Blair still out and will for for at least another 2 months think it might be Cusiter and Lawson in France this year. Lawson was really good as well. Nikki Walker also had a very good game I thought?

  • 2.
  • At 06:18 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • Richard wrote:

This is not sour grapes, or maybe it is I don't know - but can anyone tell me how the TV ref posibly awarded the France Try in the dying seconds? - There is no possible way that he could have seen that ball grounded !!

fair dues to the French - a great team - but you have to feel for the irish

  • 3.
  • At 06:20 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • ancient-hibby wrote:

Is the Scotland result against France just some needed justice for the henious accusations (unfounded and never withdrawn) made by one EOS??

  • 4.
  • At 06:51 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • Livid Lissa wrote:

I don't know, I love and adore Chris Paterson, but for me that was his worst performance to date. I can't believe he missed that first penalty. The real story of the match, though, was the referee. He could see Johnnie Beattie's penalty but not the French guy who then stomped on him? He called back Sean Lamont's forward pass to Chris Paterson, but not both French forward passes that led to tries? And of course, the sin-binning was just a complete disgrace. -10000000000 to the referee and his shoddy assistants.

  • 5.
  • At 07:29 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • liam meighan wrote:

#2
Are Scotland the "chokers" of the tournament. Why oh why did you let the French score in the last minute? Oh wait we let the Italians score in the last minute too!!
just finished watching three exciting games of rugby, it was the Super Saturday that had been billed.

  • 6.
  • At 07:33 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • emerald star wrote:

as an irish fan a round of applause to the scots for trying their best to give a game and succeeding until the 2nd half where tiredness let france run amok! i wil not say anything about the last try as if ireland can only beat scotland by a point and france can score lots more points then france deserve the championship but fair dues to scotland. lamont very good. seriously i think ye'll give most teams a game now!

  • 7.
  • At 07:41 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • France Supporter wrote:

So the Tournament winners do not deserve a rating? Tss, tss

  • 8.
  • At 07:41 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • Steve-O wrote:

What can be said about the game... scotland did well showing potential at times proving that there is a beast there, but when playing a game of 15 vs 16 and at one point 14 vs 16 with a wrongly sin bin. Betson for France should have been sent off for the amount of times he was off-side and interfered with play. Good going though France. Overall look of this six nations for the world cup, All Blacks are coming...

  • 9.
  • At 07:57 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • mark wrote:

To Richard, The Video Referee was asked for any reason not to award the try - the referee thought it was a try but was making sure.

On the performance, I felt Scotland did reasonably well, but needed to maintain their early intensity, which they failed to do. Still, all credit to both teams for a thrilling match

  • 10.
  • At 07:57 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • France Supporter wrote:

Livid please go to the 大象传媒 website and look at the highlights and then let us know exactly were you saw to French forwrd passes. Please. -1000000 to Livid Lissa and her sour grapes. ;-)

  • 11.
  • At 08:05 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • sam wrote:

shocking performance by the referee and his team! why does hadden persist with parks when paterson is our best option?? fair enough he didnt hav a great kicking day and messed up the chance to finnish the tournament with a 100% kicking record but he is the best!!!!!

  • 12.
  • At 08:15 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • luckyrugger wrote:

I think these ratings are highly questionable. Henderson "anonymous"?!?!? Were you watching the same game? I think Scotland should play these backs every time. Dewey and Henderson are by far our best centres.

  • 13.
  • At 08:21 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • DG wrote:

A fitting end to the tournament - tense to the last. Scotland were outplayed at the crucial phases, and lacked the midfield penetration they needed today. Too many mistakes at the breakdown and ran out of ideas after Plan A was over.

Taking nothing away from France, the refereeing today was again lacking. When we are out-played, poor decisions by the Match Officials are all the more difficult to take. How on earth could Tony Spreadbury advise the Referee that it was Sean Lamont who should be sin-binned for the late challenge, when SL made the last tackle of the move - and it was his brother Rory who actually was involved. Get a grip!!!!! Are these split-second decisions really credible when they can't even get the right player?

'Rub of the green' indeed. How many forward passes and squint scrum feeds did we see today in the three matches? What exactly are the touch-judges for? Also, I was always taught that a rucking player should remain on his feet when entering the ruck, otherwise he might be penalised for diving over (and killing) the ball. It seems now that this is not relevant to the modern game, and it is much more important to release the ball as soon as you are touched by a tackling player. Which rule book is in force today, and which will be in force for the World Cup?

What to do for the next 6 months? Golf is for dandies, and isn't really a sport anyway. Maybe I'll start collecting stamps.....like John Beattie.

  • 14.
  • At 08:32 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • Neil Macdougall wrote:

Decent showing by Scotland today.
Still think we need more competition at Stand-Off.
Shocking officiating.
Donal Courtney is a clown as was the referee.
Two of the French tries should never have been referred to the TMO.
the IRB should take a look at the refereeing in todays game as at times Craig Joubert would have been as well being out there in a French jersey & Courtney seems to have a gripe with us.
This still doesn't detract from what was a great French performance at times and over the piece they deserve to have won the 6 Nations.

  • 15.
  • At 08:44 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • dave bartholomew wrote:

I thought it was a strange championship all round. Teams seemed to be up for it one week and not the next. Ireland hammered England but nearly fluffed it against Scotland. France looked invincible and then get a taste of their own medicine against England. Wales save all their effort for the last game. No one was outstanding but no one was disgraced and I think overall, apart from the second weekend, it was super entertainment.
But are any of the teams showing the sort of form which can challenge New Zealand? I think not.

  • 16.
  • At 08:47 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • dave bartholomew wrote:

I thought it was a strange championship all round. Teams seemed to be up for it one week and not the next. Ireland hammered England but nearly fluffed it against Scotland. France looked invincible and then get a taste of their own medicine against England. Wales save all their effort for the last game. No one was outstanding but no one was disgraced and I think overall, apart from the second weekend, it was super entertainment.
But are any of the teams showing the sort of form which can challenge New Zealand? I think not.

  • 17.
  • At 08:49 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • audrey wrote:

fair enough we lost. but i'm gutted we ended up with the wooden spoon - our performances throughout this six nations have been better then wales.

anyway, aside from that, i can't believe that last try was awarded. surely the tmo has to actually see the ball being grounded, not just guess it was? the referee could do that himself. and poor sean, sin binned for no reason. thats just ridiculous in international rugby. the touch judge can't tell a blonde from a brown haired brother? or did it just not matter as long as a lamont was off the pitch?

feel sorry for ireland, they must have thought they had it.

  • 18.
  • At 08:50 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • biped wrote:

Two big memories of this years 6 nations - exciting but caused by all teams playing well below par and the appalling refereeing/linesmans decisions regards the forward pass and straight put-ins at the scrum and lineout. Let's hope things improve later in the year.

  • 19.
  • At 08:54 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • steve dawson wrote:

im sorry but for me Scotland are light years behind the other teams in this championship. And this comes from a Scottish fan, they have a good pack of forwards, a toothless back division and even worse a soft mentality. They do have talent but their inability to back themselves or show a mental toughness in tight matches is sorely lacking.

You just knew they were going to give up the points to France today.

Its hard to be optimistic for the World Cup, though it was good to see Paterson as stand off when did you last see a Scottish number ten throw a pass like the one he did for the Scots last try.

  • 20.
  • At 08:58 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • Dominic wrote:

Well that was an entertaining afternoon of rugby.

About the Scots, as a frenchman, I can only say that they did their best, but their best was never good enough, even though they managed to score 3 tries.

But shouldn't we all agree that the irish team is by far the most entertaining european team ? Their backs are marvellous.

But can any european team be a real threat to New Zealand ? My answer is no.

  • 21.
  • At 09:05 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • rtb wrote:

the ref should be struck off, so should the lino Donal Courtney that indicated the wrong player to be binned oh wait wasn't he the 4th official that awarded the non try against scotland by Jonny..oh wait again wasn't he the ref that didn't award the ally hogg try and the 4th official that awarded the try today from ulster must have a pair those special optical express glasses issued by the IRB

  • 22.
  • At 09:08 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • Gordon McFadyen wrote:

I feel for the irish, they certainly deserved something out of today. I agree with Richard, how could the ref award the try in the dying seconds of the game, even at home watching the game and with the benefit of TV I colud not decide if the ball was grounded.

  • 23.
  • At 09:09 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • Stuart wrote:

As a Scot and a sad romantic with over expectation as my biggest fault.
I do wonder why when we are playing "better" luck runs against us, We had a penalty a week ago at the death - ignored
Today the french back row spent the whole game off-side and a week ago hines did 10 in the bin
Then the binning of any lamont was questionable.

Not even mentioned JW try!

I just hope we keep this young team with potential and CP at 10, bring back JW and build and believe till we get/earn some luck - mabye just to much to expect!!

  • 24.
  • At 09:23 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • Kenny wrote:

Sorry for Irish. The video ref has just just been discredited completely after that try was given in Paris at the death. The ball wasn't seen from any angle and he still gave it, totally wrong.

  • 25.
  • At 09:28 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • David wrote:

Wasn't really expecting much from the tournament given the injuries etc but losing to italy at home was a pretty sore one to take and getting the wooden spoon is disgraceful.

Yes the referee was atrocious and it should have been a far narrower victory however Scotland have brought it upon ourselves in recent times not to get the benefit of the doubt from refs as we are consistantly sloppy and are constantly giving away some really avoidable penalties through sheer calamity.

  • 26.
  • At 09:57 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • ginzberg wrote:

Hope you don't choke on the wooden spoon Scotland. You were rubbish - again -

  • 27.
  • At 09:59 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • rugbymadlass wrote:

Oh goodness - what a match! Agree with ratings- I think Scotland actually played very well, the scoreline doesn't do them justice. Lamont was outstanding (as usual) and well there seem to be a lot of determination about the pack- shame it was against France who are just devastationg when they have the ball! Oh and I must add IM SO SORRY IRELAND really would have liked to see them win the championship. But hey roll on the world cup!

  • 28.
  • At 10:04 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • Andy Gilmour wrote:

DB (post 9).

Agreed it was a very strange championship - home advantage seemed to be more influential than ever? apart from our lovely late christmas present (or all 3 of them) for Italy, naturally! :-)

best thing about 6N 2007:

Italy - truly scary pack, and Berbizier has worked wonders with them. Just a shame they had to get their away win at Murrayfield.

worst thing:

Many of the Refs. Inconsistent application of laws (eg, not releasing, rucking, offside, advantage); non-application of laws (scrum feed, rucking, etc); & unacceptable incompetence (C'mon, sean's got daft streaky hair and poncy orange gloves!)...and I'm a guy who usually defends reffing as a horrendously difficult and thankless task.

There must be some good refs in south africa, surely?

:-)

Clive Woodward award for whinging:

Eddie O'Sullivan. (very strange, because he never used to...?)

  • 29.
  • At 10:06 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • massif heed wrote:

What on earth are Scotland going to do at stand-off for the World Cup? Parks CAN be solid, but really he's not going to spark us into anything special. Godman hasn't provided enough to suggest he's ready for it, but has shown plenty to suggest he's not, and Patterson isn't sharp enough - both in speed of thought and movement - to be there at the moment. We're absolutely stuffed! We can give teams a good game (like we did today, but still lost by 27 points!), but without an inspirational ten we'll struggle to beat Italy and escape from our group. Patterson should've had 10 on his back from the kick-off at Twickenham - we've finished bottom anyway so how much worse could it have gone?

What about the centre partnership? Dewey was quieter at outside centre, but that may be as much to do with the opposition as anything. Henderson and Dewey may be the solution...? I'm just grateful Di Rollo is out of the picture, please may he not return!

Hannah - I have to disagree with you. Blair should be fully fit for the World Cup, and that'll leave the excellent back-up pair of Cusiter and Lawson to battle it out for the bench spot. Blair is our best scrum-half in my mind, and by some distance.

My Scotland player of the tournament would be between Lamont, Dewey, Euan Murray, and Taylor, with Taylor taking it for being the most consistently excellent performer.

Now let's all do a World Cup prayer for Patterson at 10, Mike Blair to be fit, and our outstanding back row of White, Hogg, and Taylor to be fully operational. And if Santa could come a few months early to deliver us David Sole circa 1990, and Alan Tait circa 1999, we'll be more than a match for anyone...ranked lower than 5 in the world!

  • 30.
  • At 10:11 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • BJ wrote:

You gotta be joing about Andy Henderson and Rob Dewey' being the best centres we have got. They must qualify on the basis that they are 'big guys' AH has no skills whatsoever, especially in attack and Rob Dewey is a crash ball - nothing else. I wouldn't give these guys a start in club rugby - never mind internationala. Is this really the best best we have? 5f so we shouls resign ourselves to the C divison in international rugby along with Sierra Leone, Egypt and Germany etc

  • 31.
  • At 10:22 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • James wrote:

Ross Ford coughed up 2 turnovers which led to tries and an overthrow which also led to a try. He should have been subbed earlier. Not too bad a display by Scotland but one which seemed that they were going out for damage limitation. Too many times Scottish backs got ball static.

  • 32.
  • At 10:28 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • phil wrote:

Just a quick note on the video ref and the awarding of the last minute French try..... the video ref can only look at the issues requested by the man with the whistle, and as he stated that he had 'seen the ball grounded' the video ref could only look at knock-ons, interference etc. The issue of whether the ball was grounded or not had already been decided.

  • 33.
  • At 10:30 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • Mark Lee wrote:

If O'Gara had slotted the points then the ridiculous decision going to the French in the dying seconds would not have mattered. How can you give a try without seeing the ball??
Also, the French were in the driver seat knowing what they had to do to win as opposed to the Irish who were 1st out. I don't think that was fair although made for great viewing!

  • 34.
  • At 10:34 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • Niall wrote:

I'm assuming no.15 is of Irish origin and is looking for a scapegoat on which to blame ANOTHER 6 Nations where Ireland, believed to be potential grandslam winners did not live up to their hype?

I hope you realise if Ireland werent so "rubbish" against Scotland or Wales (and complacent in the last few minutes against Italy and France) that they really could and should have had the title sewn up with a massive points difference.

I look forward to the world cup and seeing Ireland the hope of the northen hemisphere falter under the pressure, before another 6 Nations where, yes thats right they don't live up to their promise!

(as witty as your comment was, you really must get over this rumoured choking incident, and contrary to the image my comment gives off, I acutally do have a soft spot for Ireland, afterall they are our celtic cousins...just the sour note in which yours was written annoyed me somewhat!)

  • 35.
  • At 10:36 PM on 17 Mar 2007,
  • Ronny wrote:

Ginzberg, shouldn't you be in bed? Leave the insults out, you clown.

The referees today were an absolute disgrace. Some of their decisions were hillarious.

As for Scotland, we played well in stages, and the forwards looked good from broken play, but struggled badly in the scrums. As for the center partnership, neither Dewey or Henderson have the pace, or the abiltiy to find gaps to be international 13's. Too many times were the French back line allowed to run 10 yards before being tackled in the middle of the park. Parks is not up to international rugby. Walker and Sean Lamont had very good games.

Overall, the team compeated well, and maybe with a little luck, and better refereeing, Scotland might have pulled something off. I look forward to the World Cup later this year.

  • 36.
  • At 12:06 AM on 18 Mar 2007,
  • emerald star wrote:

ya agree that ireland only have themselves to blame to be honest! blew the championship by failing to finish the game when we had the chance and we shouldt have had to depend on scotland. anyway we still are the strongest out of the home nations judging by todays results but i reckon italy are the next big improvemnt! we finished with the same amount of points as the french scored roughly the same amount of tries throghout and to be honest, altho havent got the championship, we'll take the triple crown. we're still well set up for the world cup. altho scotland do seem to improving. the score line flattered the french. have to say lamont is some player!

  • 37.
  • At 12:09 AM on 18 Mar 2007,
  • BUSHY wrote:

Re TMO he didnt give try - ref thought ball had been grounded and he was in far better position as it turned out as all tv angles were inconclusive. Better than the usual when ref goes upstairs for decision when he is best placed.

Would have loved Ireland to have won c'ship but combination of being unlucky (again) and not coming up trumps when it really mattered (again).

Bizarre 6N with all sides having good games and shockers but final table pretty fair.

Hadden - you MUST play CP at 10 as just about everyone is telling you. Parks couldnt tackle a fish supper and is no attacking threat, Godman no better and as you (bizarrely) dont think Ross is good enough you MUST give CP the jersey. But you wont as you cant seem to accept you got it wrong.

Your comments that we were close to competing for c'ship are ludicrous; we won the Wooden Spoon in case you didnt know !!! We conceded an average of over 30 pts a game and relied hugely on CP to kick the goals to keep us in games and to beat Wales !!!

Dont blame injuries, look at the many Welsh, english and French players injured and yes i know we have far fewer players than all of them but apart from White and possibly Webster (as a centre) who else would have made a difference. Yes I know Blair is an excellent scrum half but so are Cusiter (despite Italy nightmare) and Lawson so difference with Blair would have been marginal.

I am travelling to the RWC in France to support Scotland with even less confidence than when I went to the last one in Oz - if we can beat Italy and get to the quarters I will be amazed - and delighted.

But please prove me wrong Frank, nothing would make me happier.

  • 38.
  • At 12:34 AM on 18 Mar 2007,
  • Shiels wrote:

Niall, Look forward to the world cup(and seeing Ireland the hope of the northen hemisphere falter under the pressure) but the fact is Ireland are the only team from the Home Nations with a chance of doing anything in the World Cup, they destroyed England & Italy, won in Scotland & Wales & lost by one score to a French team that played better on the day-I'll live with our shortcomings safe in the knowledge that we played some great rugby-particularly today-and are playing the type of game that can trouble the All Blacks. You should be embarassed with that post- Scotland were a joke today & you have the neck to criticise Ireland for the failure to live up to the "hype".
Well done on keeping the French to 30 points-I'm sure very proud.

  • 39.
  • At 01:30 AM on 18 Mar 2007,
  • maxime wrote:

I) First, I'd like to say that there is not only one winner in this six nations.
8 points for 2 teams is the real result.
Goal average is good for football...

II) Then , you can't say Ireland is the only chance of NH for the WC. They don't have players enough: just one team.
Afetr some match, with injuries, they won't be able to show a complete team.

III) Today was a good day for rugby. I saw 3 good games, and I'm happy for France and Wales, but Scotland was not so bad too.
England loosing after what we had last week can only be good to me...but I'm sure they w'll be there in september.

Maxim, french supporter.

  • 40.
  • At 02:31 AM on 18 Mar 2007,
  • drew paterson wrote:

How simple it is to criticize after the event.

I'd just like to give a few of awards:

1) Most improved team: Italy - don't think many would argue with that one. They could just do with a few more decent backs to come through.

2) The "Stop me if you've heard this before" award : A tie here - Scotland (same old excuses and same old failures); Ireland (same old big game nerves and same old great for one game, sloppy for another); and Wales (same old stick with your mates no matter how badly they play and same old "save it for England" attitude).

3) Brightest future: This is the struggler but I have to plump for England. Maybe not in the short-term but in the long-term - England have a good crop of youngsters breaking through to the full squad, something the All Blacks and to a lesser extent the Wallabies are always doing. Sorry but I can't see the rest of the NH teams looking beyond this summer.

4) Special award (1) for outstanding contribution to this years 6N: France, for leaving it to the last minute to settle things and keeping everyone on the edge of their seats.

5) Special award (2) for outstanding contribution to this years 6N: The officials - yet another tournament goes by and the officials seem to get away with some atrocious decisions. It has been said before but these guys know how to ruin a tournament. The only consistency amongst them was that they were all inconsistent. Timekeeping, scrum feeding and scrums in general, line-out throwing, gaps, rucking, player identification, mauls, deliberate knock-ons, length of advantage - all of these are supposedly the areas that the IRB has once again directed must be looked at more carefully by the officials and once again the officials have done their own thing. I can't think of one nation this year that hasn't suffered.

OK - you spotted the criticism - have an award!

  • 41.
  • At 05:26 AM on 18 Mar 2007,
  • Annoyed Scot in Aberystwyth! wrote:

I just got home from the Massive Day of Rugby. Have no sympathy for the Irish, still waiting for EOS's apology for his accusations last week.

Fair dues to Wales who did more than their position suggests, and we deserved the wooden spoon (which I carried around all night!).

But seriously - the officiating in this championship has been APPALLING! How did a touch judge - standing 5 feet from the incident - mistake Sean Lamont for his brother?! What are these guys paid for?!

Also, I know the ref asked for reasons not to award the try at the whistle, but shouldn't he have asked for reasons to award it - ie, the grounding of the ball?!

  • 42.
  • At 05:33 AM on 18 Mar 2007,
  • Annoyed Scot in Aberystwyth! wrote:

also, not a hope for any northern hemisphere side in WC - All Blacks 3rd team woould destroy any one of the six teams - including our champions France (which the did, in the autumn, by cf 40 points) and Ireland (who are nowhere near as good as people think)...

  • 43.
  • At 07:38 AM on 18 Mar 2007,
  • benoit wrote:

well, would suggest that before posting on a forum, anyone moaning about a referee's decision swap the teams for which decision were made. eg, should Ireland have scored a 6N, last second try simalar to De Marigny's scored and be denied, how would I feel? just one example amongst many.
And when ref gets a decision BLATANTLY ( not 50/50) wrong (eg Wilkinson's try against scotland, Ireland try just before half time against Italy), let's accept it and not turn into football fans... Rugby Players actually give the supporter a great lesson here (compare with football.... )
So let's enjoy this great ball game instead of moaning, and reflect on an amazing, thrilling 6N, where you could not really find an logic in the results, where all teams had some highs and lows, even the two winners (below par Ireland in Scotland- but winning :), appalling France in Twick).

as to Ireland not winning it? in all fairness, more than the last minute tries in Rome or Paris, is more O'Gara's misses that cost them dear, but even more, by a thousand miles, the fact that France played after them. This is why, personnally,I am more interested in Wins/Losses number than who technically wins it. so praise to Ireland and France... and I really wish that Ireland was not in the same group as France and Argentina in the WC, it'll be tough for any of these three. Brave thou say come first/second in this group... but hoping that all would improve because as of today, I'd rather be a New-zealander than what I am... French... :)

cheers


  • 44.
  • At 08:01 AM on 18 Mar 2007,
  • Jubilant but realistic Napoleon wrote:

That surely had been an exciting tournament, and perhaps we should look no further! Drama was here, as well as good actors and amazing directors. Great show!
Because many ingredients bring the trophy in one of the teams' cupboard, perhaps we should stop magnifying the details, stand back and look. And what do you see? Be honest: France wan 4 times out of 6. Surely not all due to funny refereeing and lucky bounces. Such luck would make everyone apply for french citizenship. Now, are the All Blacks to be feared? Come on! Enjoy the game, stop spoiling what is a great tournament wityh endless self-tormenting speculations.
Great job from all the teams for taking us away from painful Tesco shopping and useless DIY in the garage.

  • 45.
  • At 08:36 AM on 18 Mar 2007,
  • France Supporter wrote:

With regards to refs, I agree there were some poor decision (by the way, although you could not see the ball, just by looking at the replays does any of you "complainers" really believe the ball was not grounded?). But poor decisions do not matter as long as it is consistent for both teams. Then the team that adapts best to the type of refering has the upper hand.

With regard to Ireland at the WC. I like Ireland's style of play, but I sill cannot undersand the hype about this team. If BOD or PS does not play this team doesn't seem to be able to perform. This is therefore not a strong team. Remember that France are the champions this year yet who played at #10 for them? Skela who had one cap before the start of the tournament and Beauxis who started his first game ever against Scotland. Who played at #9 efficiently? Mignoni who was never a regular in the team. These are two crucial positions and the fact that France can win in those circumstances gives me confidence for the WC (at least to make it to the finals). The only other team with deapth is England. Until Ireland can have the same I do not see them making any big progress in the WC. I do not say this out of dislike of Ireland (I really like watching them play) but the statements made day in day out about their potential is really unrealistic.

  • 46.
  • At 08:36 AM on 18 Mar 2007,
  • Ian Millar wrote:

In response to Richard's comment (2), i think the referee was happy he saw the grounding, but he checked with the TMO for a knock on. I agree it was unjustified but that's rugby!
Sean Lamont for captain anyone??? (In big Jasons' absence of course). 2 years ago against Wales he was atrocious. He has however become one of Scotlands' most improved and probably outstanding players, he has a great future. Is Alan Jacobsen in the squad just to make up the numbers or what? Is he really the water boy, asked by Frank H to bring his boots just in case? ;-)

  • 47.
  • At 08:55 AM on 18 Mar 2007,
  • DJC wrote:

Ronny 35.

Dead right about GinzBERK.

This blog is for fun and serious discussion for rugby lovers, not abuse. He should collect up his toys and go back to his native country.

  • 48.
  • At 10:19 AM on 18 Mar 2007,
  • emerald star wrote:

no 42 ireland nowhere near as good as ppl think! that's such rubbish. the fact is ireland can play badly and still beat teams like scotland! when we're playing well than watch out. i agree ireland can't blame anyone but themselves for the loss of the championship but some of the comments here by the scots just reek of sour grapes and jealousy. we didnt really play well in this 6n- england and italy games aside and we still managed to end up with 8 points the same as france. and the triple crown which is better than the wooden spoon! i praised the scots fort heir effort yesterday- pity some of the fans are eaten up with jealousy!

  • 49.
  • At 11:26 AM on 18 Mar 2007,
  • massif heed wrote:

Emarald Star - Wales played some good rugby against Ireland, Scotland stifled them, and France are at least their equal, so to say you played well in the two games you won convincingly and badly in the others is doing a disservice to your opposition. I don't think Mr Aberystwyth is trying to suggest Ireland are not the very good team they are, merely that New Zealand destroyed Wales in Cardiff, and the current Scottish side won't come within 15 minutes of beating the All Blacks when they come to Murrayfield in a few months time. I hope Ireland do brilliantly in the World Cup, in fact I'd love them to win, but they will have to play at another level again to overcome New Zealand.

  • 50.
  • At 11:27 AM on 18 Mar 2007,
  • The Continental Op wrote:

Just 2 quick points to try and lift the gloom of a disappointing 6N.

1. All of the european sides would have been comfortably beaten by France in paris yesterday and I include Ireland in that. France playing with the focus that they need is pretty dangerous. Thought we did some good things but could not afford players like Hines and Parks to be making mistakes. We should take heart from the emergence of E Murray, K Brown, Beattie, Callam and Lawson in this tournament.

2. The refereeing cannot cover up the inability of Scotland to turn good possession from a decent pack into points (that is for FH to improve on before the RWC). However, we were badly penalised by awful refing this year. Ireland's victory last week was a product of a referee who allowed blue murder at the ruck and who inconsistently binned Hines and overlooked persistent infringement on their part. Yesterday's guy just allowed the French to win every ruck they entered without any competition. For one of their tries, Ibanez could be seen holding on to the ball on the ground for several seconds but not by the ref. Not sour grapes as we should be honest about where we are but not good enough from the officials.

I still feel we can rise back and improve to beat the Azzuri and get out of our pool but we must be more bold in the backs. If you look at the 3 early tries v Italy and 1 v Ireland you see that we conceded from trying to develop a cutting edge that was not there. FH must now give players like Dewey, Webster, Walker and the Lamonts the chance to go through the RWC. I don't want us to be the sterile boring, limited side that just edged past Fiji with a driving maul in the last RWC.

  • 51.
  • At 02:25 PM on 18 Mar 2007,
  • Tam! wrote:

i think there are many positives 2 come from that game. at last, we have 2 line brakers on the wing. when webster comes back, i would put him at 13 with dewey at 12, where he's most effective. paterson at 10, with lawson at 9. southwell at 15. in my view, that's the answer.

  • 52.
  • At 02:40 PM on 18 Mar 2007,
  • Mmmmm....... wrote:

How did the ref get 2 brothers who dont look a thing like each other mixed up and what a stupid decision about the grounding of the last try.Have to say though a good win by the french although I feel sorry for the irish.
Sean Lamont for scots captain!!!

  • 53.
  • At 03:26 PM on 18 Mar 2007,
  • David wrote:

these ratings vastly overestimate the scotland performance... france could score at will or so it seemed....


-a disgruntled irish supporter

  • 54.
  • At 04:48 PM on 18 Mar 2007,
  • Johnny Farrell wrote:

Donal Courtney couldn't run a bath, let alone the line or the pitch in a rugby union international. The man must be stupid as well as blind - or is it that he just enjoys assisting any team that plays against Scotland ? After 4 clearly idiotic decisions in 3 games it makes you wonder...

  • 55.
  • At 04:59 PM on 18 Mar 2007,
  • emerald star wrote:

no 49 massif head- totally agree with what you said- we'll have to move to another level to even be in with a chance against nz. of course. all im saying is we still were better than most of the other home nation teams in this years 6nations. you can judge a team not just by how well they play but how many matches they win!dont mean to sound arrogant but it is a reality- ireland and france are the strongest northern hemisphere sides at the moment. but anything can change between now and septemeber.

  • 56.
  • At 05:55 PM on 18 Mar 2007,
  • Carole Young wrote:

I couldn't believe my eyes!! The wrong Lamont being sent off was plain crazy plus awarding the try, thus Ireland losing out on The Six Nations? You couldn't see a damn thing, surely the point should have been replayed or suchlike??

  • 57.
  • At 06:00 PM on 18 Mar 2007,
  • funkentelechy wrote:

that spoon had wales all over it, & you ended up with it you idiots. doh!

scotland have to be the most uninspiring side in the 6N. boring, predictable, staid, really low entertainment value. so much so that even when they win, it doesn't matter. you've not a hope in hell of getting anywhere at the RWC this year, you really need to woodshed & sort the basics out. back to the drawing board like all sides must at certain points.

you gotta love the way the 6N makes it alright to vent the latent hatred for our adjacent countries we all have inside us, if only for a short time. i'll love you again tomorrow my celtic cousins, but right now, your rugby team sucks badly.

  • 58.
  • At 06:00 PM on 18 Mar 2007,
  • funkentelechy wrote:

that spoon had wales all over it, & you ended up with it you idiots. doh!

scotland have to be the most uninspiring side in the 6N. boring, predictable, staid, really low entertainment value. so much so that even when they win, it doesn't matter. you've not a hope in hell of getting anywhere at the RWC this year, you really need to woodshed & sort the basics out. back to the drawing board like all sides must at certain points.

you gotta love the way the 6N makes it alright to vent the latent hatred for our adjacent countries we all have inside us, if only for a short time. i'll love you again tomorrow my celtic cousins, but right now, your rugby team sucks badly.

  • 59.
  • At 07:02 PM on 18 Mar 2007,
  • Geoff Anderson wrote:

Yes, sorry Ireland I do feel for you. Well done France too, you played some great Rugby.

I also agree with all the (adverse) comments about the refereeing - worst to date in a very poor 6 Nations for the men with the whistle - except maybe for Alain Roland who I thought had a great game yesterday.

My reason for why the last French try should not have happened - the last scrum decision was a travesty. Aly Hogg kept the ball in the air, the French had taken it into the scrum hence it was a maul and a Scottish (not French) put in. It was right in front of the ref. Watch the replay - Hogg was furious. Sadly of course we might have lost the scum anyway as our set piece play was a bit average...

  • 60.
  • At 07:28 PM on 18 Mar 2007,
  • Andrew wrote:

Nikki Walker - out of his depth. Scored his second international try (the first was dubious enough) but was flapping in defence and ponderous in attack. The sooner Simon Webster is fitter again the better. Scotland may have picked a big back line but it is slow. Pace is required to go with size.

  • 61.
  • At 08:24 PM on 18 Mar 2007,
  • Abdullah wrote:

I agree with somebody quite a few comments above. Henderson and Lamont were the two most effective backs in the side. I've always been a big fan of Henderson and its good to see what Scotland have been missing. I know Dewey is a beast but Henderson is a better all-round footballer with a great off-loading ability. Dewey made contact and almost always went to ground.
Henderson made more ground and took at least a couple of French players with him. With Henderson and somebody like Webster or Robbie Kyyd of Northampton outside him Scotland could have a dangerous midfield.
Oh yeah and that South African ref Joubert had a shocker. France got away with so much it wasnt even funny by the end.

  • 62.
  • At 08:41 PM on 18 Mar 2007,
  • Ayrman wrote:

Scots 2007. We really are pathetic specimens, clutching at straws to give a positive spin on our woeful efforts this year. "Right idea but the execution was flawed" etc. Pleeeeeease! Stop making excuses for them .
New blood required and a more positive attitude from management and coaches. Defensive mind set, tactics and system and a lack of conviction and confidence all round. Bring on Thom Evans, Rory Lamont, Simon Webster and John Barclay. I'd rather we scored a few tries and lost heavily, than put up with this 'stifle the opposition' bullshit mentality. We have to provide a threat and all we can provide currently is defence.

  • 63.
  • At 09:11 PM on 18 Mar 2007,
  • Ronny wrote:

Emerald star, what was it you were saying about this blog reeking of Scottish sour grapes?! (number 57)

I like Walker, he should have been in the side from the very first game. Webster at 13 may well be a worth while shout, but he would have to bulk up something massive, and soon.

Ireland, I'm sorry, dont have a hope of beating New Zealand. France will be too strong on home soil, not to mention the possibility of comming up against SA or Oz. Argentina wont be easy either. But you paddys must take heart that rugby fans are stating that you may well get far enough to play them in the first place!

As for us, I'm confident that we will beat Italy later this year, if the right changes are made.

  • 64.
  • At 09:57 PM on 18 Mar 2007,
  • brian wrote:

i jus think that a weekend end of great rugby and heart ache for us irish fans was ruined by utterly appalling refereeing! when sean lamont was sin binned for the late tackle that his brother commited i just could not believe it! it was appaling and the ref in the scotland game missed lots of othjer things as well! granted the ref int eh irish game may have missed a few forward passes but sending off the wrong player is unheard of!!

  • 65.
  • At 10:13 PM on 18 Mar 2007,
  • emerald star wrote:

ronny i personally feel nz will win the wc! they're too good for anyone. all i said was france and ireland are the 2 nh teams capable of giving them a game! anyway ireland will beat argentina! if ireland play like they did against australia they could beat france but i agree with you about nz ronny. they're too good! have to say it's nice to be on speaking terms with the scots again after last week lol!

  • 66.
  • At 10:24 PM on 18 Mar 2007,
  • Stephen F wrote:

For all the different things the TV referee can and can't do, surely he can tell the referee that he's carding the wrong man? If it's that the referee has to usually ask for help, then some initiative has to be used by someone objective who knows what happened. To share the feelings of other posts, what do linesmen do again? The most blatant decisions upset me the most, because that wasn't even a dubious interpretation of the rules, unless there's one that says if a player commits a foul, penalise his brother instead!

There's some talk of forward passing, well I saw some forward passing for an Ireland try more than I saw it for the French tries.

I'd go with Italy's progress pleasing me the most, though they still lack enough stars in the backs, Scotland looked far from the uselessness of a few years back, Wales' vaunted creativity failed to materialise when it mattered, Ireland do continually choke - the France game showed that, as did the first period of their first Croke Park game, England may finally have got over their World Cup win, even if it is two steps forward, one step back, and France deserved to win the thing despite being insipid against England. A bizarre but entertaining championship.

  • 67.
  • At 07:23 AM on 19 Mar 2007,
  • Andrew wrote:

This Scotland team has showed a lot of promise in a number of areas (am particularly glad that Lamont is starting to show some consistency in a Scottish jersey). However, they have just struck me as being slightly headless in this championship. Paterson, although a fantastic player, does not seem to provide the same psycholgical boost that the team seemed to get from knowing that a man like Jason White was going to be leading them on to the field. White was definitely an element that was badly missed by Scotland this year and - while i am very uncomfortable by relying on any single player too much (Wilkinson syndrome)- i think that one or two of the Scotland results might have been reversed had he been available. Get better for the world cup Jason!

  • 68.
  • At 07:52 AM on 19 Mar 2007,
  • Andrew wrote:

Also, can we stop with the sour grapes comments please! Ireland have had the poorest record in the history of this tournament (before the Italians came in) and as i grew up they were the guaranteed victory for every team except wales. I'm sure nobody begrudges you your recent years of success. However what you are calling sour grapes is merely being realistic. Ireland on their day are one of the best teams in the world. But they are not always "on their day" and even at their best they have not looked to have more than a slight chance of beating AB's. Lets just hope that somebody manages to pull off this seemingly impossible feat in the world cup!

  • 69.
  • At 08:02 AM on 19 Mar 2007,
  • Gavin David wrote:

I personally wouldnt rule out the NH in the world cup. After all winning the WC does not definatly mean beating the all blacks, just leave it to NZ to bottle it against either Auz or SA like the have done for the last 4 times round. Last one is a perfect example of that as england were fully capable of beating Auz, if NZ had beaten Auz in the semi and got through to the final then i think they would have taken england apart. So i think if either england, france or ireland end up in a final against any team other than NZ, then i think they are in with fighting chance.

  • 70.
  • At 08:58 AM on 19 Mar 2007,
  • emerald star wrote:

andrew must admit sour grapes comments made by me were a bit harsh but it just seems to me that there are some commentys here that do begrudge the success. ya we had a porr record in the 6n but to be honest look at the last few years. and we have won the grand slam and the chanpoinship before.also ya we can play better but to be honest we still won matches so i reckon we;re saving it for the wc. not that we'll necessarily win it but we can cause major upset! i just wish some fans here wouldnt be so glad ireland didnt win the championship-it's so fickle and it does come across as jealousy even if that wasnt the intention.

  • 71.
  • At 01:09 PM on 19 Mar 2007,
  • Steve wrote:

At the end of the day Scotland unfortunately don't have enough top class players. Therefore when we lose our best players to injury we don't have the strength in depth. Last year our back row was on fire with most people regarding Jason White as the player of the tournament. To have him missing and Ally Hogg short of match fitness was always going to leave us stufed. However it was good to see Euan Murray start to fill the gap we have had at 3 since Ian Milne retired. What we need now is for Chris Paterson to leave Edinburgh and join a club where he can get a regular game at 10, our first choice back row to be fully match fit, the emergence of a loose head in the tradition of David Sole and Tom Smith and someone with a bit off pace who can offload once in a while to play in the center.

  • 72.
  • At 02:05 PM on 19 Mar 2007,
  • John wrote:

Has anyone watched Robbie Kydd play for northampton? he's not bad but he's nothing special.
I think the Scotland team which finished + White, kelly brown, Blair is the best one we have and we should give it some game time.
It was asking a lot to go to france with 3 debs and a couple of guys who have been in and out of the team/ injured like Walker and lawson and ask them to win! They did their best.
Scotland's biggest problem is a lack of confidence which is becoming a full on inferiority complex, hence their obsession with pick and drive.
In your own 22 pick drive kick is a good option, but in the oponent's 22 it's easy to defend and predictable.
Against italy they needed to pick and drive in their 22, against france they should have given the ball some air once over the french 10 metre line.
I hope Frank Hadden sticks with the line up and lets them come onto a game. They're better players than their results suggest.
As for suggestions this was some kind of karmic revenge on E o'Sullivan - i think most scots would have wanted ireland to get the championship.

  • 73.
  • At 11:01 PM on 20 Mar 2007,
  • jonny wrote:

A decent scottish effort with some good young talent on show, but the question remains, what to do with Simon Taylor once White is fit, callan looks the real deal at 8 and Hogg/Brown have 7 between them, or do we have an embarrassment of riches yet again in the back row? Still come the world cup and the Blacks who knows??

  • 74.
  • At 12:33 PM on 21 Mar 2007,
  • David wrote:

re. #24 The rules now state that the Ref must ask the 4th official if there is a reason not to award the try. If the 4th official could not categorically see if the ball was grounded, then there is no reason not to award the try.
A partial grounding is also OK.
Anyway the Irish were lucky with one try from a forward pass, and damn stupid to let play continue in injury time.
On top of that, the French beat the Irish in Dublin, so I say the better team came first.

  • 75.
  • At 12:40 PM on 21 Mar 2007,
  • Wise old owl wrote:

I have to question some of Frank Haddens decisions. He is complaining in a report on the 大象传媒 website that he would liked to have been more consistent in his selection but for injury. But it was him that has chopped and changed the debacle at S/O saying it was horses for course. Surely that sends out the wrong message and he should be putting out what he thinks is his strongest team and not the opposition dictating which team he picks. To compound this he is also saying in the Metro that one of the positives was when Patterson moved to S/O. I think everybody in Scottish rugby has been saying that for years that Patterson should be given an extended run at S/O now he is thinking about it with only 2 more game before the world cup. He seems to contradict himself continually or is he only saying what the public want to hear but acting differently?

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