大象传媒

Once again a good read Tim, always the best thing about monday mornings. Lets hope that we get good responses this week and not the idiocy that some members posted last week.

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#2
It shouldn't amaze you at all, it's just as corrupt as elsewhere.

Great text as usual Tim, you hit the nail on the shortcomings of the club structure. I don't think the solution would necessarily lie on leaning more to the clubs as companies formula: the main issue as you correctly indicated is accountability and that could be tackled by stepping up what is legally required of clubs and their management. Brazil might already be on the right track, it all depends on how much enforcement the existing legislation will get.

Excellent blog Tim - puts the others on the 大象传媒 to shame.

Interesting points on the differing perspectives of 'success' and clubs as 'social organisations', though a better term may be 'cultural organisations' to reflect the fact that even fans can have radically different visions of what their club stands for in the wider scheme of things: which sometimes introduces obvious tensions and conflicts (e.g. the different shades of the Old Firm supports in Scotland). 'More than a club'?

And of course you raise the thorny issue of financial governance. Indeed the Peruvian League may be a good home for Glasgow Rangers since it seems that you can successfully negotiate your debts. I don't believe that indebtedness should be defended or rewarded but football is a murky business and not just in SAmerica.

I agree with Pato's lack of attitude, even during the match.

But don't you think he's in a tactical riddle nowadays? Like Aguero, he's not strong enough for the lone striker role, and not that suited to play as a wing-striker. Aguero is played behind the striker in a 4-2-3-1, where he doesn't need to do that much of back-tracking, but Milan don't play in that system. I think Pato would do much better in that role (Jonas also plays in that role for Valencia, which is perfect for him, no tracking the fullbacks), he should move to a team with more expansive tactics like a spanish team.

I think its difficult for some Brazilian players to adapt, because in Brazil he played in a simple 4-4-2 where he didn't need to be shifted to wings or track back that much, funnily enough, Abel yesterday had two wingers who tracked back Vasco's fullbacks constantly (especially Wellington)

By the way, what do you think of Wellington of Fluminense, Tim? Cheers

I had high hopes for Pato when he arrived, and it's fair to say he's not really lived up to those expectations. At his best though, he reminds/reminded me of Ronaldo; strong, with a sharp turn of pace, taking similar lines, and composed in front of goal - minus O Fenomeno's trickery.

Like someone before has mentioned, I think the growth theory may have some credence. He doesn't seem to have that acceleration any more. I remember being particularly impressed when he ran Mexes ragged in a game against Roma, but nowadays he rarely has the beating of his marker.

Also, I agree to some extent that the tactical side is not aiding his cause. I think the time has come for him to accept that he can't be the central striker, at least not in this Milan. And his heart doesn't seem to be in it when he's posted wide of Ibrahimovic.

As a 22-year old, with potentially eight to ten years left at the top level, he can look back on his infant career and be pleased with what he's achieved - practically a 1:2 goal ratio in Serie a is no mean feat for a player his age - but he still needs a little something extra to propel him into the elite.

I personally wish these players all the best and if San Martin want to take their ball home, I'm sure nobody will really notice apart from the players contracted to them, which really proves their point for striking in the first place; they have zero job security!

Hopefully other leagues' players will follow suit as I think most people are now sick of seeing clubs constantly getting into debt in the vain hope of being competitive. TV and moneymen (I mean the leeches) have ruined our game.

Hi Tim,

Apologies that this is off topic but it's really bugging me. Yesterday I went to the Carioca cup final between Vasco da Gama and Fluminense and thoroughly enjoyed it, good game, good atmosphere and just a lot of fun. Speaking to some of the locals at the game it was evident that it was an important cup to win, lots of local pride at stake. What I can't understand then is why was the ground half empty? People gave reasons like high ticket prices, or the game being on a Sunday when people like to have a churrasco or go to the beach, or even just that the game was on tv. If it's as important as the supporters made out, why doesn't it come ahead of things that people can do any other Sunday? Or why isn't the price of tickets lower? In England you rarely see 'important' games with empty seats, even fixtures like the charity shield (which is potentially the closest thing I can think of to compare this to) generally sells almost all it's tickets - especially if it were to be played between two local rivals. Any kind of explanation would be much appreciated!

One other thing that I didn't understand was why the Vasco players just left the pitch after the game, is it not common for the losing side in cup finals to receive a runners up medal and then stay to see the winners lift the trophy, out of respect as much as anything?

Thanks for your articles, I enjoy them every week.

@ #6

Pato has lost his acceleration? Just watch his goal against barcelona in last years champions league...

As he is quite a big physical player, I find it strange he isn't used as an out and out lone stricker more.

Too much, too young for Pato. He should have learned his craft in a league like France or Portugal - a good standard where someone with talent can flourish but also isn't susceptible to the intense criticism you would get in the Premier League or Serie A.

I think if he had joined PSG - then his career might have taken off again. Chance to win trophies and play every week in a set-up which suits him.

Amazing that the whole Player's Union took a stand, but I think it is a fair point. Here in Paraguay the big clubs are often 2-3 months late paying and it is worse when a player moves, they then have to wait ages to be paid by their own club. Recently a newly promoted club here, Cerro PF, went on strike over unpaid bonuses but it only lasted a couple of days and as no other teams joined them it was relatively small news.

*old club!

Another excellent blog Tim, one thing I look forward to every Monday.

I find it incredible how football clubs all over the world have been allowed to get away with this for so long. Any other business and many would have gone under a long time ago. I really think football needs a wake up call to see that this isn't sustainable - who on earth lends them this money to rack up such large debts? In my experience all banks are risk averse at the moment, surely letting a football club run a multimillion pound overdraft would be very risky given Pompy, Rangers and Darlington's problems to name but a few.

I hope the Peruvian players are successful in getting their clubs to start running a sustainable, profit making business - or at least one that breaks even and gives the players security.

Hi again, thanks for the response. I didn't know about the attendances in the semi finals so it's good there were 31,000 there. But even so it's only two thirds of the stadium so I was just a bit surprised when everyone around me in the ground was saying how important it was to them.

Thanks for the explanation, I didn't know it wasn't somewhere some people prefer not to go. Hopefully that won't be as much of an issue in 2016.

Great Article --- the same garbage that goes on in Peru is happening in Uruguay as well, I wonder too how a country like Bolivia manages to keep football afloat? Basically because a huge percentage of the fans pay discounted prices (sometimes for free) to see home-games, the Clubs never truly make a profit from the fans. In countries like Peru/Uruguay/Ecuador/Paraguay and Bolivia the standard of living depends largely on the strength of how strong or weak the dollar is... In Brazil for now their currency is strong while Argentina's bizarre structure (as you mentioned in your piece, the influence of the hooligan or ultra) is affected by standard of living costs and external violent cultural issues which give rise a voice and to some extent influence to the "ultra" --- Privatization might be the way to go, but then I think of all those rich Arab Owners that are the flavor in Europe, would they be so enthusiastic about buying lowly Bolivar or Cerro from Uruguay's league? And would there really be a mad-rush to invest in Tecnico Universitario from Ecuador? Private Ownership might be the solution to the big clubs in South America but the little clubs would get screwed over big time.

Great blog Tim and certainly a hot topic right now. It's brilliant and refreshing that the players held firm in this case. They hold all the cards and should not accept not being paid properly. Although it's strange that a team founded by a university in particular do not appear to be educated enough to see the bigger picture!

The issue is not only players' welfare, but of sporting fairness - it is inherently unfair for teams should to win titles with players who they cannot afford, but buy anyway, and then use the administration process to avoid paying theiur debts to players, other clubs and society in general.

Some good comments on the Pato situation - perhaps the growth issues have played a part, but he just looks like he's not in a good place mentally. How would any 22 year old feel given a marriage breakup, a spate of injuries and having your club trying to sell you?

He has also surely been a victim to the Milan formation and significance of Zlatan right now, and the way the team plays to his strengths. Pato has always looked better in a more mobile side IMO, without a static reference point like Ibra.

I don't think his quality should be in any doubt though. Last season his goals were very important to Milan and he had some brilliant games in the past couple of years. I also remember reading a while back that he felt Allegri didn't talk to him enough, so maybe he also doesn't feel wanted at the moment. Surely it's almost guaranteed he'll be on the move in the summer?

I'm Brazilian and I think that your blog IS awesome. You are totally right about brazilian soccer, our head coaches just think about defense and to counter-atack

Like Tim I too have heard the claim that the university wanted out of professional football and used this player strike as the pretext to do so. Actually this is a question I have wanted to ask Tim or anybody else here, there are many clubs throughout Latin America, but none in my own country of Argentina, where clubs are associated with universities, UNAM and UANL Tigres in Mexico, Universidad de Chile and Univeridad Catolica in Chile, San Martin in Peru, Tecnico Universitario in Ecuador are just a few examples. How exactly does that work, does the universities' rectors act as a board of directors of the club? Do these clubs have [i]socios[/i] (members)? I have always been curious about how these university associated clubs are organized.

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Another fantastic blog tim.

From this i get the impression that if these clubs were in english football they would be wound up and cease to exist.

i feel sorry for those that run san martin team however the players are to strike over the overall poor financial management of football. Peru could be the catalyst for a collapse of football clubs in south america. could happen in europe it just needs a club barca, real madrid, man utd etc to go under and the players stop playing. for the mess its the fan.

i bet the government will step in. there could be an argument that there is too much greed and money in todays football and not enough financial clout to keep a club running without going into the red.

21 - I麓ve been following Pums de la UNAM from afar for a few years now after travelling in Mexico. As I understand it, the club isn麓t legally owned by UNAM. I don麓t get exactly who does own it, hopefully somebody else can clarify on that point. They still play and have their cantera within the area of Mexico City set aside for UNAM and the association between the two is obviously still very strong.

Historically the team was created by the university but they were amateur to begin with. I麓m not sure when the link was ended, presumably when costs got too high sometime in the professional era.

In addition to Tigres and Pumas there are also Los Tecos in Guadalajara, also a university team.

隆Dal茅 Pumas!

Great blog Tim

Interesting to see that Spain鈥檚 La Liga is not far from the Peruvian championship. In fact, they had a strike that lasted a week at the beginning of this season. I just wonder if things have improved or not?

Tim, Pato is currently dating Berlusconi鈥檚 daughter. In fact, she is part of Milan鈥檚 board. I鈥檇 say that he has overcome his past marriage. But I can鈥檛 say how (or if) his present partner is affecting him. Any comments on that?

I just can鈥檛 understand why Pato鈥檚 football can be such a rollercoaster.

Tim,
Could you comment on what is wrong with Kaka at Real Madrid? Unlike Pato, Kaka had a good pre-season last year but then he 鈥渄isappeared鈥�.

Going back to last week's blog, Macnelly Torres and co made hay in the Uruguayan sunshine. 4-0 away from home. And while everyone is talking about La U being picked apart by european teams and their scouts, after a good Sudamericana campaign, is it the same case for last year's Libertadores losing finalists? On the other hand, Velez Sarsfield went far and they have started well this time round.

#5. joao ddm

I think Aguero has proved on numerous occassons this seasons that he can play up top by himself and his strength is unreal for a man of his size. I agree that Aguero plays in a different team with a different role. pato would do well playing wide right or left as a front three off Ibra.

Unbelievable times in South American football. The MLS seems to have a good system from what Tim has put but can anyonme explain the draft system to me please.

Thanks

Tim, is it possible that the Peruvian players might ultimately be shooting themselves in the foot in their quest for financial accountability from the clubs?

Might that not ultimately lead to a reduction in their wages and instead of being paid their present salaries albeit late on occasions, they might have to settle for half on time?

Signori, the draft system the way I understand it is similar to that in NFL/AFL. Basically, the league owns all the players contracts. So when promising new players become available, usually from college in American football (not sure if it is the same in 'soccer') the teams which finished the lowest in the previous season get first pick of the most promising new players available.

The idea is to create a more competitive league and ultimately a more marketable one naturally.

Thanks for the response Tim. It does sound like a bit of a cop-out, but what a shame for a side that has won 3 titles in less than 10 years. It is also disrespectful to the striking players, without whom they will not have a game. Albeit it doesn't sound like they will have that many disappointed fans!

#26 - I don't personally see anything wrong with Kaka, just a guy that needs to be playing every week now to get back to somewhere near his best and find a bit more sharpness. Not sure if he is still struggling fitness-wise but he does appear to be free of injury?

I still think he has so much to offer for Brazil, but who knows. I think it's daft to include Ronaldhino but not Kaka and they should really give him a shot now with still 2 years to go before the WC. He is obviously not going to play every week for Madrid when Ozil is now their main playmaker, and a tremendous player.

It would surely be better for him if he could get a move back to Italy in the summer and play every week, but I have no idea how likely that would be.

Whats the standard of football like in South America. I was always led to believe it wasnt too good. However, with such interest in it it must be doing something right!!

A great post as usual, Tim. Frankly, i dont know much about the South America, except for the 2 big names: Brazil and Argentina. Looking for more interesting news about them.

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