Adebayor's started so well for Man City
Why is it so hard to talk about losing a baby?
UPDATE (11:26 am 22/01/08)
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Help and support on baby loss
If you've been affected by any of the issues we've talked about you can ring the ´óÏó´«Ã½ Action Line for sources of information and support. The number is 0800 055 055.
We wanted to provide you with some links to support organisations. The usual disclaimers apply - we can't take responsibility for content on external sites.
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One in four women have miscarriages yet it's rarely discussed, you can't get a proper investigation on the NHS until you've had three miscarriages and many of you report not just poor treatment at the hands of the professionals but from insensitive friends and relatives too.
Jo emailed the programme:
The comments I heard regarding miscarriage was a mirror image of the ridiculous comments we endured when I lost my first baby. The best response, which was directed to my husband was, "well at least she didn't have to give birth to a dead baby, like our friend did". I have lost two babies, the second loss we just kept quiet about, because it was obvious that our loss meant nothing to anybody.
and Richard texted this:
Myself and my wife lost our unborn baby at 12 weeks whats worse was she was a twin our daughter was born 28 weeks later with very mixed up emotions. The other baby was still attached to the placenta. None of our friends or family understand what we feel. And the mid wife's were no better they were going to throw her in the bin. We took her home and buried in the garden. Still hard to talk about 3 years on.
We'll be talking about this from 9 am tomorrow.
We lost 3 babies, one at 24 weeks whilst on holiday in Cyprus. Each time we received a lot of sympathy, especially the late loss, we got a lot of support from a nun in Dublin, and gave her a proper burial in a baby grave in Dublin.
It is obviously very difficult to talk about it and at our daughter's christening(she was 4th time lucky) I had to mention our other babies who hadn't made it and this was incredibly difficult.
There are so many women who have miscarriages and we know at least 4 so we generally turned towards those who have experienced miscarriage
Thanks for discussing this. I had a miscarriage last summer at 10 weeks. I was totally unprepared for it and my husband and I were both at a loss how to cope. It seems to be the final taboo in our society. There is definitely not enough support or help. If I am lucky enough to get pregnant again I will be terrified for the first 3 months.
I am lucky to have supportive family and friends, although we have still been surprised and shocked at how quickly some people seem to forget or want to brush it under the carpet.
After losing my baby at 10 weeks, I continued to bleed heavily with cramps off and on for 5 weeks. I contacted the hospital and my GP, but they all said it was just my next period.
After 5 weeks, I collapsed, and was rushed into hospital with a temperature of 104. I was kept in for 2 days, and told I had an infection in my uterus, and now I don't even know if I'll be able to have another baby.
I've had 2 miscarriages, 1st and 4th pregnancies. Although my 1st was 10 years ago it is still painful to think about the daughter I had for such a short time.
I have come to believe that people find it a difficult subject for 2 main reasons- firstly people with no children seem to struggle to comprehend the agony of losing an unborn child, and secondly people who have children would rather concentrate on their living babies and not tackle the sadness of miscarriage.
I am very prepared to discuss the subject, but only seem to have the opportunity to do so with those who have also had miscarriages.
After four mc's @ 6wks, 2x8wks and 9wks all missed mc, now classed as recurrent mc , as more than 3 mc ,they do standard blood tests, cromo tests on myself and husband all test negative and have been told mc 's were just bad luck by hospital.
Mc association helped with advice and my lifeline is a website forum www.babyloss.com I have done own research on internet and asked others for advice at babyloss.com
also good book for anyone with recurrent mc is by prof lesley regan called miscarriage.
Women need to demand docs do tests and try to be referred to a recurrent mc clinic.
Try to get on a research program.
Please talk about mc on your show and highlight it, as this is the only way to stop it being refferred to as a taboo subject and will help to raise the cause for more research and awareness of tests and patient needs by hospital staff and consultants. thank you for talking about this on your show .
I have had 4 mc at 6wks, 2x8wks and 9wks, had standard tests at hospital still no answers as to cause, told bad luck by hospital.
Website www.babyloss.com has been my lifeline to cope with mc, women on forun very supportive and willing to share opinions, thoughts and research news.
mc association also helped with advice.
my other lifeline was a book by prof lesley regan called miscarriage.
Thank you for raising the profile of miscarriage on your show, it needs its taboo status removing for our society, only then will women and couples get the support they need to cope and research into mc funded better and taken more seriously by local hospitals. i advise women to push their doc for tests and referral to recurrent mc clinic if had more than two mcs.
Morning
Thanks to all of you for posting your experiences. I know it is often very difficult to talk about it, so I do appreciate your openess.
Victoria
I had a miscarriage last year on the day of my mum's funeral. We didn't think we could share the news with any family as emotions were so high until several weeks later.
Everyone just seemed to consider the double whammy something you just had to get on with and to be honest I did at the time. One women even told me it did count as it wasn't considered a baby until the 2nd trimester. Two week later she found out she was pregnant and kept telling me about her cravings and how she knew it was a girl on the 4th week - talk about insenstive.
A lot of our friends are now having children and it would help if people didn't keep saying "it'll be you next". I have found that I am happy for them and love their children but it is bittersweet as they could have been mine.
Since then we have continued to try for another pregnancy but at my age this is inlikely (46). Fingers crossed.
I had 3 miscarriages after having a daughter. My husband developed mental health problems after our daughter was born and didn't really want another child, so was not at all sympathetic towards me when I lost the other babies. I couldn't talk to anyone about it and went through the loneliest time of my life, often crying myself to sleep whilst hugging a babygro. After the last miscarriage, my husband refused to speak to me at all for 2 weeks because whilst in hospital having a D&C, I had been unable to get to a phone to call him at the appointed time he had asked me to. We separated some time afterwards and though I went for fertility treatment on my own, I was unable to conceive again.
Yes my daughter in law had a mis carriage last year and was devastated . She is now pregant again however and this time is post scan time and things are progressing well. I am surprised by the statistic that 1 in 4 pregnancies end up in mis carriage but it has got to be better for that to happen then give birth to a deformed or sick child surely.It must be natues way of making sure that only the strongest embryos survive and are born.
The best way to overcome the upset caused by it is obviously to get pregnant again and for it to be successful.
Losing our baby at 6 weeks was an awful experience. It happened 4 years ago and still haunts us even now.
The pregnancy was ectopic and as such carried significant risk to my wifes health too.
The doctors operated on my wife to remove the pregnancy but couldn't find the foetus and just stitched her up and sent her home the next day.
We had to return to the hospital the next day to monitor my wifes hormone levels to ensure that they were dropping, however they weren't and the pregnancy was alive even though the surgeons couldn't detect where it was.
Living 25 miles away from the hospital we insisted that she stay there incase there were any complications and eventually 3 days later the hormone tests revealed a drop and we knew that our little babies fight for life was over.
It was such a traumatic time in our lives and it has had a huge affect on our relationship too. Its put us under immense strain and we've had no help with being able to discuss this with anyone.
We've continued to try for a baby but its never happened for us. Next month we begin IVF treatment, this will no doubt bring with it many other hurdles we'll have to get over, especially if it doesn't work out for us.
We always thought that when we got married that making a baby would be the fun and loving experience that all our friends have enjoyed, however for us its been a life of doctors / consultants and nurses.
I run a dedicated miscarriage service in the NHS and the private sector. There is no difference in the criteria that I offer with regards to investigations and management.
Although in scientific terms recurrent miscarriages is defined as 3 consecutive successive miscarriages, I do not believe that it should be used as a criteria for offering investigations or treatment.
In my unit we sometimes investigate women even after 1 or 2 miscarriages, depending on age, type of miscarriage, etc.
Also the treatments on offer in some hospitals, in my opinion, fall short of what couples expect in 2008. This is due to lack of expertise in dedicated clinics.
The bottom line is that a miscarriage is not considered 'sexy'. It does not get the media attention or funding that cardiac disease, cancer etc get. Therefore, most couples will not get the management and treatment they deserve.
Hi Victoria, I am probably going to be one of those insensitive people. I had two miscarriages in a row before I went on to have my two boys.
The first one occurred at home the second occurred whilst I was being given an internal and the consultant actually pulled the baby out with her hand
The nurse sat down immediately afterwards and explained that this was more common than people realised and that most the time, there was something wrong with the baby in the first place.
Now I took this as a blessing, yes I cried for a while, but I founf her words a comfort and that it was probably for the best. It was some years ago now I accept and time is a great healer, but I don't think I hardly thought about it again once I had two normal births. So it may sound insensitive, but this is life, it happens, you have to move on.
My wife recently miscarried. Our NHS experience was somewhat mixed. We went to the GP together when we thought the miscarriage had started and I have to say that my wife's GP was somewhat cold and dispassionate. This however was in complete contrast to the staff at the Early Pregnancy Unit in Basingstoke Hospital where we were sent for a scan. The nursing staff there were very supportive and helpful.
Victoria, I had 7 consecutive miscarriages. After the second, I was 39 and asked to be referred for investigations even though this was not ordinarily done until 3, due to my age I was referred and was sent to a fantastic team at St Marys in Manchester, Dr Johnsons clinic, during my wait and initial assessments I had further miscarriages, I was diagnosed with a blood disorder, an immune issue which can be treated with close monitoring, twice daily injections, weekly scans etc etc, I eventually had a successful pregnancy, a boy who is now 3, the whole experience was debilitating and more, we have older children and are very lucky, but our early experience with some doctors left us feeling with no hope, if we had not been fortunate enough to be referred to this fabulous doctor and her team we would not have continued. The emotional roller coaster of our successful pregnancy is indescribable, but sooooooo worth it.
I cannot speak more highly of the NHS.
Lynn
After 2 or so years of trying, I conceived in Jan 07 and after the first 12 weeks we started to relax and tell a wider circle of friends and colleagues.
I reached 16 weeks and after some bleeding was taken for a scan to be told that the baby had died. I had looked pregnant and was totally unprepared for the shock. I had had 3 previous scans and the baby was growing as it should have.
The medical 'procedure' that we went through was so barbaric really and totally frightening. After taking medication we were sent home, the bleeding and cramps started and then the following evening my waters broke. We were told that the chances of this happening whilst we were at home was very unlikely. The maternity unit seemed very reluctant to take me in until I was bleeding heavy. They agreed that I go when my waters broke.
We saw our baby and are glad that we did.
I was then kept overnight and was in a room next to the new born babies!
This happened on 3rd May 2007 and I arranged to go for counselling some months after, this was only when I had slowly spiralled into what I can only describe as depression. When I went to the counselling I was at my lowest point - it has however been a godsend - it is run by a charity - there is no help or support via the maternity unit locally.
There is very little help and support - this subject is taboo really - the only understanding comes from other females (and partners of course) that have been through similar experiences.
Comments by medical staff, like 'you won't be needing that then', referring to my medical exemption card remain imprinted in my mind.
I found it difficult to even turn on the radio, my husband called me to let me know. Fortunately the loss has brought us together and made us stronger. Thanks for discussing this - I have dried my tears once again - we are hopeful!
I had 2 childrens and then suffered two miscarriages at 10 weeks, one of which was twins. I was so surprised after having had 2 children so 'easily'. I just wanted to find a reason but there isn't one. My first miscarriage was while on holiday in France. They were much more thorough there, with more scans and blood tests. The NHS staff were kind but it was just seen more as one of those things. Although the treatment was different it doesn't make any difference as there was still no reason. I didn't tell alot of people straight away as it seems such a common thing but when it happens to you it is so upsetting. I have since had a very bonny baby. I don't grieve for the miscarriages but don't forget.
We had been trying for a baby for a few years. I miscarried a baby at 5 weeks 12 years ago. I went to see the doctor with a lump in my breast, which turned out to be nothing scary but she said to me "You're not pregnant are you?". At the time I didn't know I was.
The next day I started to miscarry, but didn't know at the time. I was alone at home, my husband had gone to work. I phoned the doctor and he asked me to do a pregnancy test before
I went to the see the doctor! I had to phone my mother-in-law to go out and buy me one!
We have not been able to have children of our own, so the miscarriage is my comfort that I had a baby growing inside me for a few weeks.
Some of the comments were hurtful, even from close members of the family. Like, "well at least you know you can get pregnant". I think people who have children feel guilty that they find it so easy to conceive and give birth. They say something rather than nothing at all.
We had a happy ending as we adopted sibling girls 7 years ago.
After having one healthy daughter my second pregnancy ended in an unexpected miscarriage at exactly 12 weeks. My biggest regret is that no tests are offered to find out why. I went on to have another daughter without any problems during pregnancy or delivery. However, at 15 months she has global developmental delay ie not able to sit, talk, hold/play with toys - it is heartbreaking. Was there a connection? Did she slip through the 'safety' net nature provides. We will never know and currently after a barrage of tests, poor M remains undiagnosed. The healthcare professionals believe M's condition is not associated with the miscarriage and is rare. With this 'knowledge' in mind we have tried for a third child mainly for our eldest daughter's sake - I am 12 weeks pregnant today and have everything crossed.
I had a missed miscarriage in December 2005 and have had a baby since. As I had fibroids I couldn’t have a DNC so had to have a medically managed miscarriage. The only positive of having a miscarriage is that you have shown that you ARE able to conceive.
If you do have a missed miscarriage – we found out at the 12 week scan – if you are able to collect the foetus – you can have it analysed and possibly find out why it happened. In our case we discovered it had been caused by an abnormal chromosome which didn’t affect our chances of trying again. We used TDL for the analysis.
With DNCs it has been shown that sometimes you can have scarring afterwards which can affect your chances of conceiving again.
There is a book by Professor Lesley Regan which we found very useful called Miscarriage: What Every Woman Needs to Know.
My wife lost a baby at 21 weeks at Home, and until now I have kept my emotions in check. Listening to the programme today I realise that I am still upset , even though I now have two beautiful children aged 16 and 14.
In the middle of the night we called the GP and the following morning I had to take my wife into hospital for a D and C. She was put into the maternity ward which was more than a little insensitve.
The memory that lives on is my friends , well meaning, but asking the question "how do you grieve for something you did not know?"
My wife suffered two miscarriages, the first occuring 11 weeks into the pregnancy whilst we were on a honeymoon cruise in the Alaskan icefields. If the trauma wasn't enough, we had to be taken off the ship at Juneau - this just 9 months after '9-11' when US customs and passport control were still on heightened alert.
That said, the care was excellent, although I was asked to leave the room while they questionad my wife as to whether I had been violent towards her - the presumption being that the miscarriage may have been caused by myself. This may well be the case in a few cases, and I had mixed feelings as to whether I was glad they have to ask this routine question or saddened.
Being the only landlocked U.S. state capital, we were marooned in Juneau for four days until my wife got the all clear to fly out to Vancouver, for our flight home to the UK. It was in the Vancouver hotel where the dead foetus came out - again, a shock to both of us since we had not been properly prepared for this event by any of the medics we had seen in Juneau.
I will never know just how much this affected my wife, even though we have talked about the miscarriages on subsequent occasions. But other than with friends who have also suffered miscarriages, we do not talk about this, perhaps since we don't expect anyone else to even begin to know what to say to us. For this reason, miscarriages will probably have to remain the 'dark secret' for many couples.
I lost my baby at 11 weeks. I already had two children at the time. It was hard for my mother-in-law as she felt that maybe they got it wrong. I had to explain they did not and it was one of those things. I am a strong person and I think I felt that I had to get on with it, especially after I realised that it was so common. I felt I was comforting everyone else, as I come from a big family. My family were great. However, I do understand it is different for all women and feel that there should be more support/literature available to women if it happens to them.
I had a missed miscarriage in December 2005 and have had a baby since. As I had fibroids I couldn’t have a DNC so had to have a medically managed miscarriage. The only positive of having a miscarriage is that you have shown that you ARE able to conceive.
If you do have a missed miscarriage – we found out at the 12 week scan – if you are able to collect the foetus – you can have it analysed and possibly find out why it happened. In our case we discovered it had been caused by an abnormal chromosome which didn’t affect our chances of trying again. We used TDL for the analysis.
With DNCs it has been shown that sometimes you can have scarring afterwards which can affect your chances of conceiving again.
There is a book by Professor Lesley Regan which we found very useful called Miscarriage: What Every Woman Needs to Know.
I am from farming stock and used to dealing with life and death in animals, - you get used to being pragmatic - so when I had a miscarriage in 1991 at 16 weeks after several days of blood loss, I was very sad but knew that I had to get on with my life and focus on my toddler and husband. During the third day of blood loss I had been working at the ´óÏó´«Ã½, editing a report which would otherwise have been wasted, as I felt that if a miscarriage were going to happen it would happen, and lying in bed would not have made any difference. My husband was kind but we did not go into great agonising over it, and told ourselves that there was probably something wrong with the foetus that would have made it incapable of life. I was open about what had happened with friends, who all thought we were too matter-of-fact and needed to grieve, but I tend to feel that a bit more stiff upper lip would help everyone and that there is a new sentimentality which encourages people to fall in a heap when a perfectly natural miscarriage happens - or when some small pieces of tissue from a dead baby are found to have been kept - as at Alder Hey hospital. Sorry to sound heartless but my advice is brace up and get on with your life.
We had been trying for a baby for a few years. I miscarried a baby at 5 weeks 12 years ago. I went to see the doctor with a lump in my breast, which turned out to be nothing scary but she said to me "You're not pregnant are you?". At the time I didn't know I was.
The next day I started to miscarry, but didn't know at the time. I was alone at home, my husband had gone to work. I phoned the doctor and he asked me to do a pregnancy test before
I went to the see the doctor! I had to phone my mother-in-law to go out and buy me one!
We have not been able to have children of our own, so the miscarriage is my comfort that I had a baby growing inside me for a few weeks.
Some of the comments were hurtful, even from close members of the family. Like, "well at least you know you can get pregnant". I think people who have children feel guilty that they find it so easy to conceive and give birth. They say something rather than nothing at all.
We had a happy ending as we adopted sibling girls 7 years ago.
I have 4 lovely kids but miscarried between the 1st and 2nd and again between the 3rd and 4th. They were both at around 9 weeks and although I think about them occasionally and I was upset at the time, I am just very thankful to have the kids that I do have. After the first miscarriage I phoned the Miscarriage Association and found them to be very helpful and comforting. I had been to the hospital for a scan. The hospital staff were sympathetic but very busy and I left to sit in my car in the car park in floods of tears.
My second miscarriage was easier to deal with in some ways as I had been through it before and I knew it wouldn't affect my chances of becoming pregnant again.
I miscarried my first baby at 12 weeks and despite two healthy children later (with another early miscarriage in between) what I regret more than anything is the loss of complacency that everything will be all right. I'm sure I was overly anxious throughout my pregnancies and I do worry if that anxiety rubbed off on my children.
However, I'm very lucky, I find it easy to get pregnant and my heart goes out to those who lose a baby that they have been trying for them for months and even years. Or worse, those that miscarry late.
Miscarriage is so common and it's only after you have one you realise how common they are. I think you shouldn't keep quiet until 12+ weeks just in case, as if anything goes wrong (and it will for one in four), you have no support. Don't tell the world and your boss, but do tell some close friends or family, so that if something goes wrong you don't feel so alone.
I have had four miscarriages, one at six weeks, two at 11 and one at 13.
My treatment at the hands of the NHS varied enormously. At one hospital, where I miscarried the baby into the doctor's hand, she then gave it to me in a jar to carry on my lap down long corridors to the ward. I was horrified. They then put a woman with new-born baby in the bed opposite me. Once I got home, they sent me my 'happy pregnancy' forms about scans, blood tests, etc, and a week later phoned up to tell me off for not going to my 13-week scan.
On another occasion, however, when it was discovered at the 13-week scan that the baby had died, the nurses could not have been kinder. Though after the ERPC, I was turfed out without a word from anyone.
It seems that what the health service is interested in is the baby, not the mother. As a pregnant woman you're monitored, prodded, poked and hardly left alone, whereas as someone going through a miscarriage you can just be an inconvenience.
And, Julie Prince, the solution would be to have a successful pregnancy. This has continued to elude me, however, and gets more heartbreaking every month.
There are some really emotional and moving stories here. My heart goes out to all families who have had to deal with the trauma of losing a baby. I realise how lucky I am not to have gone through such a traumatic experience. My paternal grandmother had many miscarriages during the 1920's and 1930's, including stillborn twin girls and miscarrying my fathers twin.
This morning’s show has certainly made me aware of the need to think very carefully before offering any words of sympathy to anyone who has experienced loss of a baby.
I think discussing miscarriage is the first step in getting better services for those going through the physical and emotional trauma.
It is farcical that women who are miscarrying a baby are treated alongside women who have given birth to, or about to have, healthy babies. Up and down the country, EPU (Early Pregnancy Units) are part of post-natal wards in hospitals.
Cruel and unusual punsihment for someone coming to terms with the loss of their baby, to hear the cries of a newborn; long and painful the wait for the scan which will confirm your baby has died, as you queue with mothers with bumps.
Not good enough!!
Some advice for friends and relatives of those who have suffered a miscarriage-
It is impossible to know what to say and to imagine what the couple are feeling about their loss. Sending a card that simply says you are tihnking about them is enough.
Nobody is particlularly interested in your personal theory as to why their baby died: just to know you are aknowledging their loss is a massive comfort.
Kath (I have had 2 12 week miscarriages). I have kept all the cards people sent me - makes those precious babies seem more real.
Thank you Victoria for raising this difficult subject. I have had 4 ivf attempts and even though I never managed a pregnancy I felt for 16 days after egg implantation I was pregnant in my mind having seen on camera my developed embryos replace. I have listened to your programme and it has brought home the loss and pain for so many couples.
It unfortunately never goes away completely but it does diminish with time.
Please, please somebody help the man who has just been on. (Apologies that I don't remember his name). He has struggled with this for too long and has shown such huge courage to take the first step to talking about it. Please don't let him go on any longer without help. He sounds such a lovely man who cares so much for his wife. I really wish him and his wife well.
I think discussing miscarriage is the first step in getting better services for those going through the physical and emotional trauma.
It is farcical that women who are miscarrying a baby are treated alongside women who have given birth to, or about to have, healthy babies. Up and down the country, EPU (Early Pregnancy Units) are part of post-natal wards in hospitals.
Cruel and unusual punsihment for someone coming to terms with the loss of their baby, to hear the cries of a newborn; long and painful the wait for the scan which will confirm your baby has died, as you queue with mothers with bumps.
Not good enough!!
I suffered a missed miscarriage 2 years ago. I had a feeling something was wrong although no evidence to support this. Everyone kept telling me it would be fine but I couldn't get it out of my head that something was wrong. My local Early Pregnancy assessment Unit at the hospital agreed to do an early scan and although I thought I was just being stupid they confirmed to my horror there was no heartbeat and my baby had died. I was just 10 weeks pregnant. I was numb with shock and all I kept thinking was it was my fault. My partner was by my side and all I could say was "I'm sorry" over and over.
The hospital were amazing. They were supportive, honest but sensitive and talked me through exactly what was happening. I chose medical management and miscarried at home - very traumatic. However I eventually had to have surgery as the miscarriage was incomplete. Over all the process lasted 2 months and was a nightmare. But my experience with the hospital was fantastic, they treated me with the utmost respect at all times and gave me the hope and courage to try again. We now have a happy healthy 10 month old baby boy. There is always hope for everyone in this situation.
Just wanted to say a massive thank you for addressing this issue. It has really helped to share other people's experiences.
We lost our baby on Thursday night. I was 15 weeks pregnant. I have worked for the NHS for 13 years and as a health professional I was sadly disappointed by the care given.
I had severe abdominal cramps and went to A+E after the bleeding started. After an hour I was transferred to a treatment room on a ward. I was left alone in excruciating pain, offered no pain relief and an hour later my waters broke. I was told to wait for the doctor semi-undressed and bleeding. 3 hours after my admission I finally saw a doctor. She started to examine me and was immediately bleeped away. At this point I felt our baby being delivered. The nurse put the baby in a kidney dish and left the room with the doctor. An hour later I passed the placenta whilst on a commode. On the doctors return she told me what I already new that I had miscarried. I was then given a leaflet about cremation, a leaflet about miscarriage and led to a bed.
Although none of the staff were unkind I was offered no support. I was desperate to go home and after being told I would be reviewed first thing in the morning on ward round I then had to wait until late afternoon before re-examination by a doctor and discharge home.
My boyfriend is unable to talk about it which I respect as this is his way of dealing with it. I am extremely fortunate to have wonderful friends and family.
I'm glad I told people as I have had fantastic support. It has been wonderful when friends have phoned me to offer support as I have no-one else to talk to and I find it extremely difficult to pick up the phone to contact them.
Now I want some answers as to what went wrong but am doubtful that I will be given any. I know that miscarriage is extremely common and chromasomal abnormalities are the main cause. Earlier in my pregnancy I asked for U+E's ( measures of minerals in the blood) as I had previously had deficiencies. I was refused. I am not looking for anyone to blame I just want to avoid this happening again. I have contacted my community midwife and am still waiting to hear back.
I know that once you start to miscarry there is nothing that the medics can do which is why emergencies come first and you are left in limbo. It demonstrates the shortage of staff in gynaecology and indeed throughout the NHS. However I really feel the staff who were present on the ward could have given more support and information as to what was happening and what to expect. Just because miscarriage is a common occurrence this does not negate the need for compassion and adequate care.
My sincerest sympathy goes out to others who experience this loss.
Today should have been my due date, I miscarried in May @ 7 weeks and again in July @ 6 weeks. I thought I was being incredibly strong about it until I heard some of the ridiculous comments made on your show today and some of the even more ridiculous points made on the forum. I cannot believe there are so many insensitive people in the world who feel so strongly about this that they have to belittle other people's sense of loss. THESE PEOPLE ARE THE REASON IT IS SO HARD TO TALK ABOUT LOSING A BABY! I have no other living children to be thankful for like so many others who seem able to cope with their loss by counting their blessings. I am not being 'punished by God for being a potentially unfit mother' as I heard someone on the show hypothesise as the reason miscarriages happen, I believe I would be an excellent mother, I am married, own my own home, have three degrees, 28 years old, run my own business, I work with children and young people...I avoided caffeine and other harmful things from the moment we tried to conceive, this was not my fault and I did nothing to deserve it.
I was especially dismayed at those people who believe that before 14 weeks it does not count as miscarriage!!! I 'felt pregnant' on both occasions having unmistakable implantation pain and other symptoms from as early as a week before my period was due. This coupled with the fact that I took my folic acid, I avoided caffeine, alcohol, second hand smoke, using saunas and jacuzzis, eating too much tuna...all the things you are supposed to do when you find out you are expecting a baby, meant that I just couldn't 'ignore the fact that I was pregnant until I reached 12 weeks', like earlier generations of women did. Being pregnant requires a lifestyle change, which those around you will most likely take note of, being a responsible pregnant woman is a public act that is difficult to keep secret. The grief and loss I feel for what might have been is lessening with time but days like today are just a bit harder to make it through.
I miscarried twice last year at 6/7 wks, both were 'missed miscarriages'. I opted to wait to fully miscarry at home. The NHS will not investigate until the 3rd miscarriage so I sought help privately and found I had a blood clotting disorder. Had I not found this out I would have continued to miscarry. Sadly I have not fallen pregnant since. I still remember sitting in the Early Pregnancy Unit waiting for a scan to confirm my miscarriage and sitting alongside blooming pregnant mums and one lady who had come for a termination. It was a difficult experience. People sadly seem unsure what to say when you miscarry, when I returned to work most people said nothing at all to me, and that I found hurtful in the extreme.
The NHS Trust I work for (Worthing, West Sussex) support the policy I have written , Sensitive Disposal of Fetal Remains. This involves offering all parents who have lost a baby (regardless of age) the chance of a funeral.Every lost baby is cremated at the crematorium with our funeral director Even if the parents don't want to attend we can tell them the date and time . Some parents then release a balloon or go somewhere special etc. I work as a bereavement support midwife and work very closely with our EPU Nurse and the scan dept. I believe we offer as good a service as possible in these days of very limited resources.
I suffered a late miscarriage last July and it has been a very traumatic time. Being older I had lots of tests and suffered awful morning sickness. We were just starting to relax and enjoy the pregnancy when I lost the baby.
I had to go through a very traumatic labour and our baby was born perfect but two tiny to survive.
I have found SANDS a great help meeting and talking to other women who have been through the same.
I feel that I am a changed person and am struggling with my confidence. I am a teacher and usually have to just cope but I am still a long way from being the confident person I was last year.
Time is a healer but baby Constance will always be a part of our lives.
We had a service which really helped and the hospital chaplain and staff were wonderful.
I do feel that this subject needs to be discussed more as society paints this glowing picture of pregnancy and babies. Sadly for many this is not always the reality.
I have a seven year old daughter who keeps us going and we are so very grateful to have her.
Thank you for devoting so much time to this topic. I listened this morning and have just listened to a down load with my husband. We are having difficulty conceiving and are having treatment. We had a miscarriage in Nov 2006 at 4/5 weeks. Someone commented that people said "well at least you know you can get pregnant." This is no consolation. It has been so helpful to hear men comment on these issues especially Simon. It could have been my husband talking and it has helped my husband to hear/know that other men have the same feelings as him.
With my fourth pregnancy I had a late miscarriage at 19 weeks + 5 days. I went into labour and went to hospital.
I couldn't fault the nusres or midwives but the doctor was the ice queen and continued to call our baby 'product'(medical term product of conception).
The delivery suites in maternity were all busy, that was the impression we were given. Almost like your baby is dead we are giving the other women priority. Our room was a third of the size. A bed, two two seater chairs , two sideboards and monitors stacked up. This meant the door wouldn't close, just a curtain to separate us from other mothers giving birth and new born babies crying.
I delivered our son Logan, my husband and I weren't prepared that he was still alive when he was born. He died 3 hours later in my arms.
I left the hospital with a broken heart and empty arms. The midwife gave me a blue Peter Rabbit box with a certificate with his name, weight etc.. 3 photos, hand and footprints.
That was ayear ago he is forever in my heart and my family feels incomplete.
In the past 4 years I have had 4 miscarriages and an ectopic pregnancy. The ectopic pregnancy was my second pregnancy and I was very frightened it would be more difficult to conceive. This has however proven not to be a problem, although unfortunately the miscarriages have continued. So if you have suffered an ectopic prenancy and only have one tube - don't despair our bodies are very clever things.
There are a few things that over the last 4 years have come to light for me.
I have found that "western medicine" is ill equipped to cope with the after effects of this trauma. There is hardly any information given at the time of miscarriage and I only satisifed my thirst for knowledge by surfing the net. We are given hope by the doctors saying that they can run tests and may find the problem, but what they don't say is that they are unlikely to be able to resolve a problem if they find it, especially when experiencing early miscarriage. These tests are also only available after 3 miscarriages. I have had all the tests available in UK and have now moved to France where they have tested further as they are not on a budget. However having undergone these tests I have been told I am very healthy (I knew this already) and that they can find no reason for the problem. I have also been to see an accupuncturist who specialises in womens problems, she however told me that my body was incredibly run down. I found the accupuncture helped me considerably both physically and mentally. It helped to regulate my periods after each miscarriage and to give me a feeling of well being. Accupuncture can also help those couples suffering from infertility problems. I found all this out by looking on the internet.
After 4 years of disappointment we have decided it is time to stop letting the problem run our lives. I feel that for the last 4 years I have either been waiting to get pregnant, feeling disappointed because I am not pregnant; or worrying because I am pregnant and that I may lose yet another baby. I now feel a sense of relief that I have come to terms that it may never happen for us. If it does it is a bonus, but if it doesn't then c'est la vie. Life is for living and not for dwelling on disappointments. This has been something that I have only just managed to come to terms with as my last miscarriage is still fresh in my mind having had a scan on Christmas Eve to find that yet another baby was gone. I think this is important for all to remember, you can have a life without children.
I had my son when I was 37 soon after I had married the first person I had wanted to have children with. I had a good pregnancy with no problems. Another pregnancy didn't come along so I was shocked but thrilled to find myself pregnant at 45 four years ago. Being fit, well and in reasonably good nick, with an 8 year old and a much younger husband, I felt more than able to cope.
I knew I had a higher than average chance of miscarrying because of my age, but my GP was really encouraging and I tried hard to look after myself and do all the right things. I was very positive and felt that I was entering a new and fantastic phase of my life. I was devastated when I started bleeding at 11 weeks and a scan confirmed that I had lost the baby.
Although friends and family were sympathetic, it was clear from remarks made, that there was an underlying opinion that it was all for the best.. because of my age. People tried to soothe me with the idea that I might have had problems with the pregnancy and labour, problems with the baby etc etc. While all this might or might not have proved to be the case, it felt very cruel. Had I been the age my husband was at the time (38) and he had been 45, nobody would have had these views, or felt they had the right to express them. I ended up feeling that I had no right to be so sad and that it had been stupid to think that I could have had another child.
I have got on with my life - and with loving the child we have. But I know my feelings of loss are unresolved. I have found the process of approaching 50 impossibly difficult, and this is all tied up with losing the baby and never being able to have another one.
Listening to the first few minutes of your programme yesterday while parking my car at work, I found myself in tears again. People should never underestimate the impact of miscarriage - whatever the age of the person who has lost their baby. Nor should it be treated it like a medical 'blip' or 'blessing in disguise' as seems to be so often the case.
I didn't hear Victoria's piece on miscarriage.
My wife and I had 4 recurrent miscarriages some of which were very early on in pregnancy and one which was at 13 weeks.
We had previously had had 2 healthy children and, eventually, had a 3rd healthy child who's now 2.
Miscarriage is almost taboo we found. No one wants to acknowledge the fact you have suffered something akin to bereavement. It's an intensely lonely experience at times and something that stays with you.
I now tell people who I've got to know well enough about them (the miscarriages) as they are part of who I am.
Our 3rd child shows that perverse though it may sound, good can and does come out it.
As I say, i didn't hear the piece but it needs to be brought out into the open if only to stop crass comments such as 'it was probably for the best'. It's not as it's a horrendous experience.
thank you victoria for bringing this up.
I had 3 m/cs last year in March, July and October. My first miscarriage was my first pregnancy and I lost it at 14 weeks. I had contractions of increasing pain over 3 hours which got so bad I was taken to the Whittington. I had asked to go to UCH where all my pre natal contact had been and so all all my files but the ambulance drivers although great, would not do this because of the traffic. I was in awful pain and being sick every 2 minutes. After being stabilised in A+E for an hour with some amazing nurses, I was taken up to see a doctor. I was kept waiting another hour and a half to be seen. When I went in she asked what she could do for me. I was so surprised she had not looked at my notes. I then began to tell her everything - at this point I was very hazy with drugs and the trauma of what I had been through - she looked at her nails while I was talking to her, seemed bored and barely responded to anything I said. I could have been reciting the telephone book to her. She then said she had to take a sample as she called it. I bled all over the bed and she got impatient as I tried to mop up afterwards. To have had metal implements in me after what I had been through was very upsetting and has NEVER been done in any of my subsequent m/cs. She said she would operate - ERPC - and I was to go for tests. I asked her about letting it happen naturally and she dismissed this saying I would haemorrage and endanger my life. I asked her whether it would be quicker to go to UCH where they had all my blood tests and notes - at this point she got up and walked out angrily whilst I was still talking to her. I was astonished at this.
I was seen at UCH and after being monitored for a couple of hours, was sent home and had a natural m/c without the need for an operation under general anaethestic.
Miscarriage is so common that doctors often dismiss it. I really felt traumatised by my treatment at the Whittington as just another piece of meat and still feel angry that other women might have this experience.
Overall there is so very little information or advice given after a m/c - I have learnt everything on the site Mumsnet which has been invaluable to me. The NHS is letting women down. You have to go though 3 m/cs before you are seen for specialist tests. Other countries only require 2. Age should be a factor - i.e. you should be seen sooner if time is against you.
It will be very interesting to hear whether you will sound as sneering and hectoring when you get Gordon Brown on the programme as you did with David Cameron today. You certainly would have lots of scope!
Liz.