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Dear Phil,

You say: "Always supposing that the prisoner in Abergavenny was actually Hitler's deputy, this was not the first connection between the Hess family and Wales.

It is possible that Carl Hess, Rudolph's father, actually lived in Cardiff for a short while. Certainly Carl's first wife, not Rudolph's mother, was buried in the parish churchyard at Michaelstone-y-Fedw so there may be a degree of truth in the story."

I'm afraid the idea that Rudolf's father was named Carl Hess and married Elizabeth Mackie is a local myth based on nothing more than the presence in the churchyard at Michaelstone-y-Fedw of a gravestone and the publicity seeking assumptions of Elizabeth Mackie's 77 year-old brother, Edward Mackie in 1941.

Rudolf Hess was actually born in Alexandria in 1894, the son of a wealthy Lutheran merchant named Johann Friedrich (Fritz) H. Hess and his wife Klara Munch.

I have carried out a little research on Carl Hess, prompted by seeing the memorial in the church and although the connection with Rudolf Hess is non-existent, there is a very interesting coincidence or two with the Hess Affair itself.

If you are interested in hearing about it please contact me on [Personal details removed by Moderator]

Interesting comments - history, it seems, can belong to the one who shouts loudest or the one with the biggest axe to grind. I wonder how many so called "facts", things that we take for granted are, when examoned in detail, proved to be incorrect?

Thanks Phil. In this case I can imagine a number of originations for the story. I always wondered why a high profile prisoner like Rudolf Hess was permitted to visit the surrounding countryside (albeit under armed guard early on). It appears well-known at the time that he was held captive at Abergavenny yet it was supposed to be top secret.

Moving away from potential conspiracy theory there is of course simple "jumping to conclusions". Hess being an almost unknown surname in Wales, perhaps the Mackie family can be forgiven for surmising a link. In fact Hess is a common surname in Germany.

Remarkably when I examined the Carl Hess story, some very strange coincidences turned up, connecting Carl to Rudolf Hess' landing site in Scotland and his sojourn in Wales.

I have heard that Rudolf Hess was entertained (dinned apparently) at Tredegar House, do you know whether there is any truth in that, if there is the coincidence is even greater.

Finally, if you look at the Mackie family's website you will see it contains several utterly implausible personal profiles. Somebody in that family - possibly Edward Mackie himself (the one from back in 1941) - was something of a hoaxer.

Like you, Ralph, I have heard stories about Hess at Tredegar House. I do know that Hess and Lord Tredegar knew each other and had met in Germany in the early 1930s, before the Nazi Party came to power. I have just recorded a radio programme about that meeting - due to go out in the New Year on Radio Wales. Have a listen, it might be of interest to you. If Hess and Evan Morgan (Lord Tredegar) knew each other well it would not be beyond the bounds of possibility that they came together at Tredegar House during those war years.

Ok, I didn't know Hess and Evan Morgan knew each other but here's the coincidences I mentioned:

1) Elizabeth Mackie (Carl Hess's wife) was the daughter one of Lord Tredegar's foresters. Her family from the mid-nineteenth century lived on the Tredegar Estate. So Rudolf Hess knew the employer of Carl Hess's first father-in-law.

Strange enough?

2) Now we move to Scotland, about 15 miles from where Rudolf Hess landed on his secret mission in 1941 lived for 46 years a man named Wilhelm Hess, Carl Hess's brother! Carl was a witness at Wilhelm's wedding. Wilhelm died in March 1933 (the very month Hitler seized total power in Germany).

Stranger - what are the chances of two German brothers, one having lived near the place where Rudolf Hess landed in a remote part of Scotland and the other married into a family employed by Lord Tredegar. Millions to one I suspect, yet it happened.

I found all this out after seeing Elizabeth Mackie Hess' gravestone at Michaelston-y-Fedw and doing a little family history research just out of interest.

More grist to the conspiracy theorists' mills possibly but I just think its one of those amazing coincidences that history throws up every now and again to tantalise the discoverer.

Ralph

I don't know if this helps or not but my grandfather, Fred Foster, was chief male Nurse at Maindiff Court from the 30's until the late 50's. He remembered Hess being entertained by 'the local nobility'. My mother also recalled him being escorted around the local area by two MPs when he was on one of his painting expeditions.

I have an English translation of Hitlers 'Mein Kampf' signed on the inside cover -
with regards to (W?) Coates Sept 1st 1942 Rudolf Hess.

My Grandfather was Charles Coates who I assume must have been one of the guards assigned to Hess in Maindiff Hospital. Do you know any way of confirming this ?

Hi Chris, what a great thing to have - not that I'm condoning either Hitler or Hess - but a great momento. How do you confirm it? Do you know your grandfather's war record, where he served, his regiment etc. That's where I'd start. Maybe others will know more.

Hi Phil
It turns out that my Grandfather, Charles Griffiths Coates, was 50 years old when WWII broke out and was therefore not eligible for active duty overseas. One of his postings was Maindiff Hospital, which is where he would have met Hess. Thanks for the tip and for your interest in my little memento - like you I have no truck with Hitler or any of his cronies but Mein Kampf will be a nice little treasure to hand down to the grandchildren !
regards Chris Thompson

My father often spoke of his years guarding Hess at Maindiff - He passed away at age 82 in 2001. He spoke of the many outings that Hess had in the countryside to draw and paint. Always accompanied by 2 guards and male nurses. My father met my mother at Maindiff - she was a nurse on the "other" side of the hospital. They were married in Abergavenny in 1944.