´óÏó´«Ã½

Remember that governments can issue their own money. No banks needed. The main problem is that there is not currently a sustainable model that would refrain governments from being irresponsible in that money creation (they must also destroy that money when it comes back to them as taxes).

How is this different from private and "independent" central banks controlling money?

Fictional or non-fictional conversation, love it.
The only thing that I'd add somewhere in this piece is: "Mr. Lender, you have created 600 TRILLION worth of derivative or derivative offshoots, like CDOs - most of it not worth the paper that it is written on. The entire global GDP is 65 TRILLION. How will you pay that back? How will you make that right? That's why you're so scared of default because, Mr. Lender, your house of cards will fall like the paper it is. How dare you talk to me about being austere, or buying over my spending capability. Who authorized the loans? Who kept sending me credit cards? Who kept telling me spend, spend, spend. How dare you take any bonus when you created this mess, encouraged my lending when you should have gone bankrupt long ago?"

Amen, brother!

'I should warn you that I can't vouch for its accuracy -- indeed, it may for all I know be a piece of total fiction -- but I thought I'd share it with you anyway ...'

Go on then. I think we're used to it, if not as satire, mind.

Athens News

5.45pm Finance Minister Filippos Sachinidis has said he asked Prime Minister Lucas Papademos to decide whether the country will pay a remaining amount of 430 million euros of a bond maturing on May 15, which was not part of a major bond swap. "I have not taken a position on whether the bond should or should not be paid," Filippos Sachinidis told Reuters. "I have sent a letter to Prime Minister Lucas Papademos asking him to consult with political party leaders and make a decision," he added.

--and Mikis Theodorakis -- reviving the Greek Civil War hatreds.

3.41pm Noted Greek composer Mikis Theodorakis, a well-known leftist icon in the country, on Friday expressed a view that Greece should be led to new elections, saying he will be "present". "I will take part in (upcoming) elections, however, with whom and how is something I will announce later. I will be on the front-line," he said.

For years now I have been warning about the ´mental condition´of Greece and its society --and over the years have given many website links to demonstrate and support my conclusions and personal experiences of Greece.

No Greek behavior (or utterances) has surprised me since my first visits almost 40 years ago -- the society has continued its path with no need for self-reflection, as it achieved its wishes -- with no positive effort on its part and at others expense, whether internationally, nationally or locally.

This continues -- no debt repayments, but they must stay in the EU and Euro for the future ´free gifts´.

More than one Greek contributor on the ´óÏó´«Ã½ blogs have threatened (with honesty)
" If we fall we will take you with us" -- and it seems many Greeks hold that view, Syriza´s popularity is increasing --as more Greeks believe it is possible and not only a blackmailing ´pipe dream´.

Even if they are thrown out of the EU and Euro, Greece and its society will not change --the self-delusional and ´cork-screwed´logic will continue. The old Civil War rivalries are still there and are re-appearing --and already one Greek has said on ´óÏó´«Ã½ (or NPR) -- that Europe will be responsible for any renewal, if it does not give Greece more money.

-- Unfortunately not only Greek logic. Those who have never bothered to study Greece and its society --and yet put blame on others for its mess -- Should be confronted with the dilemma if the EU should feed starving Greeks or starving Africans -- if ´push comes to shove´.

However I do wish to be fair.

They did not steal from themselves.



"During the World War II, the Governor of the Bank followed the Greek Government into exile. The Bank' s gold reserves were transferred first to South Africa and then to London. "

Nor did they steal from their dead grannies.



Nor did they steal from the blind.



I strongly protest at such false accusations.

#2 BluesBerry

-- Life is not that simple --but just as complicated.

Mr Voter reminds me of a man who went into a restaurant, picked up the menu and said: I democratically choose to order soup, steak, wine etc. He was served, ate his food and got the bill. Then he said: Now I democratically choose that I don't have to pay for all this. It is my democratic and sovereign right and I refuse to have it taken away from me by some fat restaurant owner.

This is not to say I have any sympathy for Mr Lender. But if I was Mr Voter (ie. if my opinions were anywhere near a majority), I would follow this logic: the sweetest revenge I can take on Mr Lender is to go through structural reform and become less dependant on his money. Then I can set the terms of the game and the roles will reverse.

Spiegel-Online (German)

Summary

´Even if Greece leaves the Euro, the billions will continue to flow for the bond payments -- only the funds directly to the Greek government should be stopped (Schauble). With the Drachma, Greece will continue to be helped- as any other EU country with their own currency and be paid for by all 27 EU countries instead of only Eurozone countries.´

This also implies that all EU assistance will also continue (CAP etc.). EU taxpayers have the right to demand a stop to all misuse, corruption and blackmail from Greece (or any of its citizens) resulting from their transfer -- at all levels of its society --from the government downwards.



(The left side of the page gives the history)

Greece has demonstrated that it is both incapable and unwilling to enforce any ´rule of law´ within its society and for that reason the time is long overdue that it be faced with the choice -- either it becomes an EU Protectorate (until the ´clean up´occurs) -- or all EU subsidies must be stopped immediately thus ensuring EU taxpayers money not be squandered, misused or stolen.

#9 Pawel M

Mr Lender is not only the banks --but the EU citizens who are forced to pay the Greek bill for years to come.

Greek democracy appears to be when a majority of one occurs --with only one voter -- on a topic it alone decides.

--as in your example.

There is a conspiracy at work at the heart of the establishment. the subject is the untruth that we have to save the banks. This is a lie. They are not too big to fail. Indeed they must fail before we can recover. And by recover I mean create more jobs and so productively employ our citizens.

I'll not go into why the conspiracy exists or its historical antecedence. It does exist.

The consequences are an arithmetic disaster. So long as the establishment and the banks maintain the fiction that the loans that they made on property are worth more than half their face value they depression is a certainty. These 'fake' valuable loans prop up property prices and so cripple all businesses and keep wages uneconomically high.

The other side of this is that the banks rely on the value of these loans to create a semblance of solvency - and prop up their absurd remuneration structures - part of which is to offer grossly overpaid jobs to politicians. This effects all economies. Indeed the more absurd the house price the worse and longer an economy is crippled.

This is what happened before in the 1870s property/debt bubble - it took over two decades for the capitalist system to rectify itself. If anything the situation is far worse today and we will suffer longer.

The cause is/was the underpricing of money that permitted the asset bubble to expand so absurdly and unaffordable - so blame the Bank of England and the FED.

The way out is to reprice money.

This will collapse the banks, but they are dead men walking sucking the lifeblood out of the global economy.

It will also create a small tsunami of repossessions - but this is essential to get property prices down too economically affordable levels. My analysis suggests that the number of repossession will be nowhere near as large as feared - perhaps 50000 or so in the UK.

We must reprice money to get it to a position of being valuable again or capitalism cannot restart.

Ìý


Ìý
Please, no more! My ribs are killing me! *snigger*

#13 Scotch Git

-- My views on the CAP are well known -- and that they are the MAIN reason the UK stays in the EU -- ´The Oath´should not be underestimated in ALL that Britain does.

Ìý
You're right! Time for that referendum! You know, the one our Prime Minister promised us. With a cast iron guarantee.

#12 J_f_H

-- I agree with you on many (most) points. However I would use the term ´national governments´ instead of the vague ´establishment´-- even if in most cases they are identical. All was avoidable-- Germany had no housing bubble (high deposit necessary) and as far as I can see -- neither a personal debt bubble.

As EU governments have ´Sovereignty´over taxation -- the money supply could have been restricted --even when low interest rates existed (please correct me if wrong)

With money being created at one stroke of a computer key --only a strict(?) fiscal policy appears to be available to at least keep national government spending and new personal debt under control --until (as you say) --money retains value.

The idea of a two tier Euro may allow (until and if) others to ´catch up´-- but a low Euro would only get the German industrial Juggernaut into yet another higher gear. A much higher Euro for the first tier countries would also cut not only into their 2nd tier exports -- but also their ´world exports´

Does the Euro have its ´fair average value´in the world ?

With Germany having said that it will accept a slightly higher inflation rate -I am confused if they mean over the 2% (April 2012, 2.1%)

Maybe this will help us in this mess ?



--or another shot of Scotch Git´s 30 year old malt may be better ?

#16 Scotch Git

-- The CAP money will be paid by you under a different name --remember Feu-duty and the Poll tax tricks Scotland fell for ?

-- Do you really believe the 2 house owners were in mind ?

-- she got a Baroness title for that trick.

Ìý
Fell for? Imposing a tax that, if one refused to pay proved impossible to collect, was silly!

´óÏó´«Ã½

"Alexis Tsipras: "As long as they insist on the bailout, to a policy that the people have rejected, they cannot ensure social stability"

"They're not seeking an accord with Syriza... they're asking us to be their partners in crime and we will not be their accomplices."

"Democratic Left's leader, Fotis Kouvelis, said before Sunday's talks that any coalition government should "immediately" cancel legislation that slashed the minimum wage and facilitated lay-offs, and start to "disengage" Greece from the bailout."

"The stumbling block appears to have been Syriza's insistence that any new government must cancel austerity measures agreed in return for EU-IMF loans worth 130bn euros ($170bn; £105bn)."

"The leader of New Democracy, Antonis Samaras, said Syriza had refused to join or back a coalition government, even if it pledged to "renegotiate" the loan agreement."

-- My #6 appears to be a reasonable and fair judgement.

According to Nadeem Walayat (market oracle uk), the Eurozone is faced with two unpalatable choices: a slow steady descent into deflationary depression via its current austerity regime or inflationary depression under the new growth imperative portended by the uncertain outcome of the Greek election. Since it appears likely that another election will be necessary in June, the inevitable has been postponed till then. If Greece chooses to abandon austerity then its ouster from the Eurozone could come soon after the next election. The question of how this will be handled is crucial. If handled badly then the future of the Euro could be in jeopardy given the tenuous though less perilous circumstances of the other PIGS economies especially Portugal, Ireland, and even Spain.

Re- Gavin Hewitt´s European blog.

"Which brings us back to Greece. Anti-austerity parties believe that Greece is slowly being strangled economically. They want the terms of their bailout deal renegotiated.

They also do not believe that the EU or Germany will allow them to exit the euro, with all its "incalculable consequences".


What is THAT for false and devious statements ?

It appears that Mr. Hewitt does not even read Greek newspapers (in English) and knowingly is spreading false information -- to the UK anti-EU ´converted´

The bond payment due today will be paid by Greece.

I presume not all of the ´Golden Dawn´voters hold this view.

The issue has always been about regulation and separation of investment banking and the governments that failed in their over-sight responsibility. If the governments are too weak or owned by the bankers to pass responsible regulation than the people will take control. the party is over and the bankers are sticking everyone else with the bill. It wasn't just the banks that failed, it was the governments as well. Elect responsible candidates and stop falling for election campaign rhetoric. They will all campaign on job creation although they refuse to deal with what caused the need for job creation. Honesty and integrity have a place in this world and should return as a expectation in business and government. Consolidated wealth and power always ends poorly.

More ´laughs´ from Greece-





A State of Emergency must be declared --or the corrupt military should take power. (the lesser of two evils ?)

Since Monday 900 million Euros have been withdrawn from cash dispensers. (Spiegel- Online)

This is also a good one--

A new urban development project for central Athens.



"Once the best proposal has been identified, the relevant feasibility studies will be drawn up by authorities and efforts made to secure European Union subsidies for the project."

I don't think that the CDOs' or toxic debt packages are that hard to understand. You don't need a rocket scientists to know that dodgy high risk loans were bundled together with some low risk loans and then sold. The return relied upon people paying at least the capital sum and then some. The "then some" was the profit. So in an ideal world the risk of the dodgy loan defaulting would be offset by the low risk loan, which kind of makes sense. The rocket scientist could then assess the likelihood of defaults of low and high risk loans and a price could be set for the bundle.

Straightforward! Yes but then you need to factor in greed. Greed which caused loans to sold to people who should have never got a loan, greed by the banks who were selling these CDO's for huge profits, greed by the CEO's who were making short term gains from the profits. This house of cards came crashing down. The banks were bailed out. Knighthoods were lost but the poor people who were just going about their everyday lives, buying into the nonsense that borrowing was necessary for the economy and future prosperity were/are being stung.

CDO's are not complicated, this is a myth which has been perpetuated to take pressure away from the regulators who were far too cosy with the financial institutions. Greed is what has caused this problem and the ones responsible for the financial mess are sitting in their yachts laughing all the way to ... their bank!

There should be no question in anyone's mind that the banks brought this catastrophe on the public by dropping customary standards on loans, pushing false ideas such as the widespread belief that house prices could only go up - trapping an entire generation of borrowers in the belief that there was no risk to buying a home - and in the case of Wall Street investment banks selling bundles of sub-prime mortgages mixed with less risky conventional mortgages to trusting investors like pension funds and bribing credit rating agencies such as S & P, Moody, and Fitch to grossly overrate these bundles of investments. And as we know the austerity "solution" puts the entire burden adjustment for the crisis on the public workers and the general working class. It is hardly surprising under the circumstances that there has been a widespread protest movement against the austerity program that has only recently reached the political level with the Greek and French elections of the past month. We also know that the "solutions" being pursued are only designed to "kick the can down the road" by postponing the inevitable need for drastic measures that can only worsen the plight of growing unemployment in both the public and private sectors.