| Do
you want a fully independent Cornwall? |
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| Protesters
against the south west assembly |
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How
should our county be run? Have
your say on self-government, a south west assembly, Westminster
and the EU.
How can we preserve our unique culture and move forward in the 21st
Century?
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Do
you support the aims of Mebyon Kernow for a legislative Cornish
Assembly for self-government within the UK?
Or
do you think greater independence could put off investment from
the rest of the UK?
Would
we be better off as part of a south west assembly or would we
end up being governed by Bristol and Exeter?
Do
you feel Cornish, British or both?
*latest mail from the top
Click
here to have your say now.
Reply to the reply from Phil T, Cornishman
Well Phil T, thanks for the insults 鈥.. I really appreciate
the below the belt comments like how 'apathetic' I am and
'sitting back and doing nothing', oh, and thanks for the slur,
I know it鈥檚 OK because you were not insulting any Devonians
- just the rest of us. These and more 鈥榗onstructive鈥 comments
from a man that doesn鈥檛 agree with me 鈥 nice. You never know
Phil T, I might be ugly as well, or suffering from a disability
鈥 but one thing is for certain, I live the other side of the
Tamar, so I must have horns growing out of my head.
It鈥檚 good to see that your 鈥榮weeping statement鈥 material shows
no sign of diminishing 鈥 ever thought of becoming a politician?
Maybe something in the new 鈥楥ornwall Collective鈥, (where all
work in the county must be done by locals) You can鈥檛 be Commissar
for Culture though, that has already been promised to Mr Saunders
鈥 but how about the Propaganda ministry?
That鈥檚 the one were you ignore reasoned argument and keep
belting out the same old diatribe 鈥 on the basis that if you
say it enough times it will become true. After all Phil T,
judging by your previous postings you will soon be moaning
to 鈥楽ir鈥 that I am an outsider and am taking up valuable posting
space from 鈥榯rue hearted proud Cornishmen鈥 (Hey Phil T, that鈥檚
not a bad slogan 鈥 you could give that one to Bert Biscoe!).
Or how about becoming Chancellor, or maybe working in the
Ministry of Truth? 鈥︹. Maybe not.
I like the way you have revised the taxpayer contributions
figure for the Dome from 800 million downwards to 2 or 300million.
Where did you get that one from Phil T 鈥 yet another 鈥榝act鈥
just plucked from the air? And how have I belittled the "Eden
Project鈥? I said it was 鈥榲ery nice 鈥 a lot of green stuff鈥
The green stuff is the plants, Phil. You must be careful,
you are showing classic signs of 鈥榗hippyness of the scapuloid
area 鈥 it can be brought about by believing in fairy stories
and taking offence to emmet like creatures.
I just happen to believe in a free market economy where anyone
who is talented enough qualifies 鈥 as opposed to a post code
option, Phil T. The Eden Project is an internationally important
conservation & education site funded for the most part by
the National Lottery, it鈥檚 something everyone who has played
on has contributed to. I didn鈥檛 know Cornwall was off limits,
do you have your own special lottery?
Thanks for pointing out the 鈥極bjective 1鈥 stuff 鈥 and there鈥檚
me thinking that when Liverpool (population 600,000) was receiving
鈥極bjective 1鈥 funding it was because we were first out of
the hat!. Oh and one more interesting fact for you Phil T,
Toxteth in Liverpool (you know, where I was born) was once
designated THE poorest area in the whole of the E..C.
As I said previously, I love the way you automatically pigeon
hole people, apparently I am sedentary, spending my time taking
apathy pills and sitting back and doing nothing. BIG CLUE,
PHIL T 鈥 the last 2 words on my last posting are 鈥楥ARPE DIEM鈥
- latin for 鈥楽eize the Day鈥 It鈥檚 a call from me for an English
nation to grow up and mature into true nationhood. You accuse
me of not caring - Phil. If I didn鈥檛 care, why would I write
to sites like this? (Although I am beginning to wonder why
I am bothering 鈥 maybe you would like to just have a 鈥榬ubber
stamp鈥 type web - site, populated entirely with 鈥榶es men鈥
鈥 Cornish ones obviously).
Just for the record -- I am a member of a number of pressure
groups, including lobbying for an independent English state,
advocating an English Parliament 鈥 and another pushing for
a proper English national anthem. Is that OK with you Phil
T?
Steve Garrett, Lancashire |
Steve Garrett, you missed the point again. OK, so your company
benefited from the Dome for a very short period and you made
a bit of temporary money, fine, but I doubt very much that
many Cornish people got any long-term benefit from it, despite
your optimism.
And, OK, maybe it was only a 2 or 3 hundred million pounds
of taxpayers鈥 money and not 800 million that was wasted.
However, it still does not divert from the fact that no one
has any long-term benefit from the project. It also does not
alter the fact that the money could have been better spent.
Despite your attempt to belittle the Eden Project, at least
it is working and it is having a positive effect on the Cornish
economy, and that's what we, as Cornishmen, are really interested
in.
You are absolutely correct when you said that there were protests
by some members of the community complaining about further
expansion of the Eden project, but you will probably find
that the people who do complain are the ones that are not
on the dole, do not have businesses that will benefit from
the project, would complain about any major change to the
environment or are retired and are just looking for a quiet
peaceful retirement. There are always certain amounts of people
who are against any kind of change. In any case, to a certain
degree, they are probably correct. The area needs to improve
the local infrastructure before too much expansion is undertaken.
I believe the organisers of the Eden Project already have
this in hand though.
You mentioned that all the work on the project has been 'sourced
and done within the county'鈥 How very observant of you.
That was the whole point of the project. I see you are having
great difficulty in understanding the concept of Objective
One status. Objective One status means that Cornwall is one
of the poorest areas in Europe. It needs development. It has
high unemployment. It has low wages. It needs business development.
Building a project in Cornwall and asking you to come down
from Lancashire to undertake the work does not do the Cornish
situation any good, so that is why it was not done.
Creating employment in Cornwall means, creating jobs for people
living in Cornwall, not going to Lancashire to find labour.
And yes, I do think it is OK to exclude the 55 million people
across the Tamar. Just as the 55 million people across the
Tamar have ignored and excluded us for the past few decades
or so. Your next comment about other areas suffering from
poverty and degradation are noted and we accept that what
you say is correct. However, Lancashire, Liverpool, Scotland,
Newcastle and all the other areas where mines, shipyards,
and other industries were closed, have since received a certain
amount of government assistance, in varying degrees, and I
think you will find that none of these areas are recognised
as Objective One areas now. Although, Scotland and a few of
the other areas did get extra European help a few years back.
In other words they are not as badly off as Cornwall is now.
Everything else you mentioned was just confirmation of what
the problems are. You have not given any solutions. One possible
solution for Cornwall is to go it alone and sort our own problems
out. You even say that you yourself have lost confidence in
the British Government but you criticise and condemn the Cornish
for wanting to solve their own problems.
If everyone were like you, sitting back and doing nothing,
then there would never be change. Cornwall currently has a
unique opportunity to change its own situation and I think
we should go ahead and push for it. As far as financing a
Cornish Assembly, if you read my previous postings you will
see that Cornwall currently raises a great deal more tax revenue
than it receives back from the British Government, so we do
not need a rich partner to subsidise us. All we need is control
of our own affairs. There are ways and means for small communities
to remain financially solvent and I have lived in several
regions where this does happen.
I suggest that you stop taking the apathy pills and, if you
really want to change your own situation, that is if you are
not happy with it, and take an example from some progressive
thinking Cornishmen and lobby for changes. We will succeed
in securing a better future for our children no matter how
much opposition we encounter from across the Tamar. (That
is not meant as a slur on our Devonian neighbours by the way.
My wife and two stepchildren come from Devon so I have no
gripe with them). My gripe is with the British Government
and the way that they ignore not only Cornish problems, but
also rural problems in general. By the way, I meant the British
Isles, it has not been a United Kingdom since Scotland, Northern
Ireland and Wales received their
local powers.
Phil T, Cornishman in Oman |
Pearly King of London shows his ignorance. Cornwall is not
seeking to 'opt out' of the UK. It is simply seeking the same
devolved powers to an elected Assembly that London already
enjoys! You may not like the Mayor you have elected, but at
least you have a devolved Greater London Assembly that can
decide on transport policy for your region. We in Cornwall,
in the meantime, are stuck with scandals like the Iron Bridge
at Goss Moor, and other non-decisions or wrong decisions by
unelected bureaucrats in remote places - like London and Bristol.
Another good example is here in Falmouth with the long delays
to the opening of the new National Maritime Museum. It's great
that it's been built, but will it ever open? And the reasons
for the delay? Disputes over the contract between the builders
and the South West of England Regional Development Agency
- a huge remote bureaucracy based in Bristol, for which we
are supposed to be grateful as it doles out an unfairly small
part of our own tax revenues in an inadequate strategy to
counteract the weaknesses in the Cornish economy, because
its priorities are determined by the needs of Swindon, Bristol,
Gloucester, Taunton, Exeter and Plymouth.
The priorities of an apppropriate economic development strategy
for South West England (i.e. the Six Counties east of Cornwall)
are in conflict with those of Cornwall. Cornwall is a quite
distinct economic region with very different needs, strengths,
weaknesses and opportunities. And the biggest threat to Cornwall
right now is a Seven County Assembly that will preside ever
an even more London-like housing market, from which local
people are increasingly excluded.
Adrian Watts, Flushing, Falmouth |
Now then John House, temper!, temper! I was merely replying
to Phil T, as requested in his last post. It would have been
rude of me not to do so, or perhaps you would prefer me to
be rude to him. Thanks for the suggestion, but I do not need
to persuade my fellow Devonians of the advantages of a Devon
Assembly; they have made it quite clear that that is what
they want, without any prompting from me. I am quite sure
that if needed we could get a 100,000+ petition together,
but unfortunately, I am not sure that petitions/declarations
cut much ice at Westminster. I wish you the best of luck with
your campaign.
Bob Burns, Barton-upon-Humber |
Dear Phil T, Cornishman. In reply to your recent postings,
I think I should address your issues and concerns in turn.
Let鈥檚 start with the Millennium Dome and the Eden Project.
YOU SAY that the Millennium Dome was a complete waste of time
& money and cost the British taxpayer at least 拢800,000,000.
The Eden Project however, (you say) is a tribute to local
enterprise, didn鈥檛 cost the British taxpayer a red bean, creates
local jobs etc.
You say the 拢800,000,000 could have been better spent on the
peninsula. Well Phil T, Cornishman, you are badly awry on
those sweeping statements, firstly, BOTH PROJECTS were financed
to major extents by The Lottery (Millennium) Commission. They
also put up a lot of the money that subsequently baled out
the Dome during the year 2000.
The 拢800,000,000 that was spent on the Dome could not have
been spent on 鈥榯he peninsula鈥 infrastructure because The Lottery
(Millennium) Commission money does NOT cover that sort of
project. (Hospitals, Roads, Schools etc are all outside its
remit, so Phil T you appear to have fallen into the 鈥榮weeping
statements鈥 trap where truth becomes the very first casualty
for the sake of a dramatic line).
So, to claim that 拢800,000,000 of TAXPAYERS money was wasted
is entirely bogus. The Dome WAS rubbish, but I believe there
were a number of reasons for its failure to engage the British
public. Its inability to tell the story of a great nation
(that鈥檚 OUR nation Phil). The way it was used as a political
football by all of the major political parties鈥, the inability
of politicians to organise anything, and the way it was just
assumed that everyone was going to traipse down to Greenwich
to see it.
One thing I would say in its defence however was that it certainly
spread the work around the WHOLE COUNTRY (that鈥檚 including
Cornwall, Phil). We are 200 miles from London and we got some
work out of it. (No Phil, we are not a multinational, we are
a very small company of 3 people). So, your other sweeping
statement "and benefited no-one except foreign and some British
businessmen, most of whom were already wealthy". to say that
seems really hollow and basically ignorant of the facts. How
do you know? Or is that just ANOTHER sweeping statement? It
DID create work! for an awful lot of businesses, both big
and small companies ALL around the Country. By ALL around
the Country Phil, I mean the U.K. And finally Phil, there
is no way that the Dome could create any permanent jobs 鈥
how could it? 鈥 It only lasted a year!!
During my recent holiday to Cornwall we went to the NATIONAL
Eden Project 鈥 after all the hype we had to go. Very nice
鈥 a lot of green stuff - and whilst I was walking around I
noticed all the 鈥榗ontributions boards鈥 dotted around the site.
Do you know what Phil, I had great difficulty in finding even
ONE contributor from outside Cornwall. Virtually everything
appears to have been sourced and done within the county. Phil,
do you think if I wanted to do work for the Eden Project,
they would have wanted to see if we were competent to do so,
or would they first have looked to see where our office was
located?
You seem to confirm this 鈥 and even revel in the exclusivity
of it all with your statement "Whereas the Eden Project has
created hundreds of jobs employing almost all local labour".
So do you think it鈥檚 OK to exclude the 55 million across the
Tamar? If I didn鈥檛 know better Phil, it鈥檚 almost an exercise
in Cornish centralisation. Oh and by the way, some people
haven鈥檛 been reading the script, The people that live around
the Eden Project just don鈥檛 appear to know what is 鈥榞ood鈥
for them. I noticed last week that there were local demonstrations
against the further expansion of the Eden Project.
Believe it or not Phil, we have grinding poverty and degradation
up here. I was born in Liverpool 8 鈥 known to everyone else
outside Liverpool as Toxteth. So I don鈥檛 need any lessons
in hardship from anyone, I鈥檝e read the book, seen the film,
bought the 鈥楾鈥 shirt and missed the square meal. And before
you re-iterate the schools closure thing, my secondary school
has closed 鈥 and about 90% of my former class mates have either
gone abroad or moved to other parts of the Country (Tim Saunders
take note).
The gripe list you supply seems VERY exclusive, don鈥檛 you
think the rest of us have the same problems? For example MINING
鈥 that will be Tin mining then. Phil it鈥檚 down to World prices.
The global price for tin makes it uneconomic for it to be
mined in Cornwall. Your average Cornish miner is in competition
with some peasant miner in South America being paid 3 quid
a day. It has nothing to do with any Government conspiracy.
BUT, during the 1980鈥檚 however, the power industry started
to build Gas powered stations, hence losing the Country鈥檚
reliance on King Coal. So Phil, how many Coal miners have
lost their jobs in Yorkshire, South Wales, Lancashire, Nottingham,
Clackmannan, Kent etc during the last 15 years - 30,000? 40,000?
50,000? 60,000? Or more? - go on, have a guess.
Next, FISHING 鈥 Phil, we are part of Europe and quotas鈥 are
given out from Brussels. General fish stocks have fallen 鈥
(and this will really shock you) not only around the coast
of Cornwall but all around the British Isles and beyond. The
quotas are a way of limiting the catch in order to help recovery
of the stocks. Did you not hear of the controversy of some
fishermen (yes even Cornish fishermen!) selling their quota
allocations to Spanish fishermen? So how do you revive 鈥榶our鈥
fishing industry? Withdraw Cornwall from Europe? Put a 200
mile exclusion zone around 鈥榶our鈥 coast? Don鈥檛 you think these
problems have affected Fleetwood, Buckie, Whitby, etc, etc.
FARMING, - Phil, when you go to the supermarket and you are
browsing the shelves, what are you looking for? I bet you
are not consciously looking at supporting the local farming
industries. That nice bit of bacon was probably grown in Denmark,
but who鈥檚 bothered as long as it鈥檚 cheap and looks good. If
that wasn鈥檛 the criteria then the supermarkets wouldn鈥檛 have
the stranglehold that they now have. How would YOU support
your farming community? Pay extra, (a lot extra) for local
stuff that would be in season one week and out the next? Ban
the large chain supermarkets from Cornwall territory and convince
the local population to shop at the corner grocery store?
(Very popular I鈥檓 sure) Don鈥檛 you think these problems have
affected ALL the rural areas of the country? If people in
the countryside supported their local stores, why are so many
closing? Would it be people not using them, or is it a Government
plot鈥. Hmmmm.
INFRASTRUCTURE, - If you want to improve your hospitals and
schools then prepare to stick your hand in your pocket. Of
course, everyone wants improvements, they say they are prepared
to pay for them and that they will pay more tax 鈥︹. Until
they get into the voting booth that is. And Phil, I can tell
you like paying tax, that will be why you are in Oman then.
How do you think Parliaments are paid for - that鈥檚 right us!
And you want to increase that total by adding yet more? Haven鈥檛
you seen Portcullis House (the new MP offices) opposite the
House of Commons 鈥 it鈥檚 cost a fortune 鈥 the finest of everything
has been used, money no object. Then there is the Scottish
Parliament, millions over budget and years behind schedule
whilst everyone bickers and backstabs on and on. The European
parliament is in Brussels, right 鈥 well no, half the week
they all decamp to Strasbourg at great expense, for no other
reason than the French want it that way. You will guess that
I don鈥檛 like politicians much and the prospect of paying for
even more fills me with dread.
Next 鈥 I鈥檝e to convince you that you would benefit from remaining
within the Governance of the British Isles 鈥 presumably you
mean the UK? Phil, I wouldn鈥檛 be that presumptuous (even if
you have made that presumption about me) because I don鈥檛 really
believe in the union any more. I would like to see the home
countries going their own ways. I don鈥檛 see any sense in bringing
in mini parliaments 鈥 for heavens sake Phil, England is a
Country smaller than all but the smallest U.S. state. I want
to see an English Parliament. I simply don鈥檛 understand how
a country of England鈥檚 population and profile somehow doesn鈥檛
qualify to have its own democracy. Scotland, Wales and Northern
Ireland all have theirs, so why don鈥檛 we have ours?
I believe, with an English Parliament there would be an awful
lot more focus, attention (and cash) on the problems in all
areas of OUR Country 鈥 and that includes Cornwall. An English
Parliament (in another building, simple and cheap), the House
of Lords dissolved and Westminster changed to a sort of 4
country senate 鈥 maybe 100 members max 鈥 they would be a talking
shop for 4 country matters). And an aggressively open mind
on Europe, an appraisal on what鈥檚 in it for us and how it
will work to our advantage. So Phil, what do YOU want for
Cornwall? Total independence 鈥 but staying in Europe? Could
be a problem Phil, half of impoverished Eastern Europe is
about to join, most of the restructuring cash will be going
eastward (along with the manufacturing jobs). Maybe you want
total independence and be out of Europe, becoming a tax haven
for the rich and dodgy.
Do you think Phil that the local population will want to be
employed as a service industry to the super-rich? Or maybe
you want independence within the union of the U.K? Now that
could be a real problem. This alternative is only viable as
long as there is a rich partner to subsidise it. And if others
want to do the same as you want to do with Cornwall (like
all the other English counties) who are you to deny them,
even if it will mess up both your own and MK aspirations.
The sleeping dog is stirring and I don鈥檛 think that people
within the rest of the country will want to bankroll another
Parliament and yet more Westminster MP! s鈥 having more 鈥榃est
Lothian鈥 power over us and yet more 鈥楤arnett鈥 formulae being
devised for our neighbours. Do I sound fed up Phil? What I
need to do is invoke the spirit of King Arthur (a mythical
person based on a dark age King at Cadbury Hill which is not
in Cornwall). Or how about Trevithick? (an able engineer who
didn鈥檛 win the Rainhill trials in the mid 1800鈥檚.) Sounds
pathetic doesn鈥檛 it 鈥 but it didn鈥檛 stop Bert Biscoe using
the analogies recently (minus the stuff in the brackets) in
his sweeping statement fest!!!! I wonder if there is a night
school course on 鈥楽weeping Statement鈥 Oratory 鈥 Phil, can
you ask your mate Bert Biscoe which one he went on? CARPE
DIEM.
Steve Garrett,
Lancashire |
Bob Burns, simple fact: Cornwall has 50,000+ declarations
of support for a devolved Assembly, Devon does not have an
equivalent number for such an Assembly there. Face it. You
have had your say on Cornwall on numerous occasions. Why don't
you concentrate your efforts on persuading your fellow Devonians
of the advantages of a Devon Assembly on the 大象传媒 Devon website?
While relatively amusing as a novelty, a stuck record can
get very tedious after a while.
John House,
Britain |
|
Do I feel Cornish, British or both? At this moment in time
as a person who has spent his whole life in Cheshire I gladly
support the Cornish people who would like their own assembly.
Devon and Cornwall could be one regional assembly that has
two seperate governing areas but still work as one in economical
terms.
The
traditions count for nothing anyway under the nations current
regime. Cornish traditions should be encouraged, that is
part of its heritage, I wish others cared as strongly about
English Culture as the people of Cornwall do about theirs.
If the opportunity ever arises, and I hope it does, I would
be happy to spend my life in Cornwall.
In answer
to the original question do I feel Cornish, British or both,
the answer is definitely CORNISH..
Brian Taylor, Hyde, Cheshire
|
|
Perhaps
Phil T would care to have another look at what I wrote in
my last post. He will see that I did not say that Cornwall
should remain in the current state of exploitation by Westminster,
but merely stated that others are in the same boat, including
their immediate neighbour, so Cornwall hasn't been singled
out for victimisation. I later stated that if the Cornish
wanted their own assembly, then they should go for it, but
they would have to present valid reasons for doing so, and
not the ridiculous twaddle about why they are so completely
different from Devon, which will only weaken their case
and alienate them in the eyes of the Devonians. I am pleased
to say that Phil has not been one of those who has promoted
this line of approach, but does at times seem to have been
blinded by those who have.
Phil
is not quite correct when he states that this forum is only
for the discussion of a Cornish Assembly. If he would care
to read the header above this discussion he will note that
the agenda is somewhat wider. I only got involved in this
forum when I discovered that false assertions, either directly
or indirectly, affecting Devon, were being used to promote
the case for either Cornish devolution or Cornish independence.
Now I am sure that if the boot had been on the other foot,
and it had been Devonians making false assertions about
Cornwall, Phil and several others would have jumped in and
protested (and quite rightly so). The pronouncements of
Bert Biscoe are merely the latest case. If a Devon Councillor
had stated that Devon should not be represented by the mega
region, because it would result in further impoverishment,
but that it would be OK for Cornwall, Dorset, Somerset etc.,
Phil and the others would have red hot keyboards by now.
I have
only ridiculed those aspects of the Cornish claim, which
would not stand up to any serious scrutiny. Is it not better
to suffer some ridicule in this forum, than to go forward
with those aspects, only to have them thrown back in your
faces as being absurd? I have only resorted to ridicule
when other methods of logical persuasion have failed, just
to show how silly they look from an outside perspective.
Remember, it is outsiders you are going to have to persuade
in order to get your assembly, so you don't want them to
think you are a pack of idiots, do you. I wish you well
in your battle for an assembly, but please do bear in mind
what I have said. I would hope that you would also be prepared
to wish the Devonians well in their chosen route, whatever
that turns out to be and that, as neighbours, we should
remain the best of friends.
Bob Burns,
Barton-upon-Humber
|
|
Steve Garrett and Bob Burns have still not answered the
fundamental question. Why should Cornwall wish to remain
within the current situation whereby they are exploited
by a British Central government, or a future regional government,
who, like them, do not listen to claims by Cornish residents,
so that Cornwall can remain one of the poorest and most
under-developed areas in Europe? And remember, probably
more than 50% of Cornish residents are not Cornish and 10%
of the Cornish population have already signed the petition
stating that they agree to a Cornish Assembly.
Bob,
I would also like to comment that this is a forum supposed
to be discussing a Cornish Assembly etc. Believe it or not,
some of us do understand the historical relationship between
Devon and Cornwall but firstly, this is not the forum in
which to discuss Devon and secondly, Cornwall feels that
it would be better represented by its own people rather
than getting attached to another region, larger in population
and area, with a chance of being in a similar situation
to what we are in now, having someone else, who's loyalties
are elsewhere, determining what is best for Cornwall.
And
Steve, convince me that I would benefit from remaining within
the governance of the British Isles. Explain to me what
the British Government intends to do about supplying my
county with adequate schooling, hospitals, employment and
public services. In the past few years we have seen schools
close down, hospitals close, crime increase, unemployment
increase, the fishing industry decline to almost extinction,
the mining industry collapse, the farming industry in turmoil,
the rail system shut down, and public transport deteriorate.
Are you telling us that we are incapable of doing a better
job than that?
Continuing
to try and ridicule our claims for a Cornish Assembly only
makes us more determined. Believe it or not, before I came
onto this forum I wasn't at all pro-nationalist. In fact
I was quite liberal minded and willing to be convinced by
either side. However, after reading some of the comments
directed at Cornwall and the people fighting to give the
Cornish people a better future, it has angered me to such
an extent that I am now convinced that we, as a separate
region, should fight as hard as we can to achieve a Cornish
Assembly. It is the only way we can expect to get a better
and fair deal for our children.
Phil
T, Cornishman in Oman
|
I feel that it is about time that I addressed the points raised
by Phil T, as he seems to have got it into his head that I
am anti-Cornish, which I am definitely not. I would like to
see a prosperous Cornwall as much as he would, but there are
ways of going about it, which may succeed, and there are ways,
which will only open the Cornish up to criticism and ridicule,
and none of us want that.
Firstly, being self-centred and inward looking is the path
to ruin. It would seem, from posts to this forum, that we
Devonians know quite a lot about Cornwall (and the rest of
Great Britain for that matter), whereas many of the Cornish
posting here seem to shut out anything East of the Tamar,
or regard it as being uniformly malign towards them. In particular,
they seem to know next to nothing about their immediate neighbour
Devon.
Living in such a vacuum leads to a persecution complex, e.g.
that the Government is picking on Cornwall, deliberately singling
the Cornish out for economic deprivation. The truth is far
less sinister. It is much more a case of incompetence in dealing
with regions remote from London. By taking the trouble to
look outwards at the rest of Great Britain, it quickly becomes
obvious that the further one gets from London, the more the
local economies are suffering from neglect.
One doesn't have to look as far as Cumbria or Northumberland
to see the effect, as there are examples right next door to
Cornwall if the Cornish would only take some time to look.
To quote from The Economist (5th August 2000), "Cornwall has
for some time been England's poorest county and its economic
performance is all but matched by that of its sluggish neighbour,
Devon". This is not some Government misinformation to fob
off the Cornish. There are postcode areas in Plymouth, which
are among the poorest in Britain; just take a look at the
figures some time. Again, one only has to read the posts to
大象传媒 Devon, on the topic of devolution, to see that the same
complaints about neglect from London and the belief that the
Devonians could do a better job if they had a County Council
or Assembly with increased powers.
If proof is needed of the damaging isolationist attitude of
some of the leading figures in Cornish politics, one needs
to look no further than Bert Biscoe, and his remarks that
I highlighted previously. His assertion that the mega region
would bring further depression to the economy of Cornwall,
but would be perfectly OK for the rest (including the only
slightly less impoverished Devon) precisely illustrates my
point, about only looking inward. I was appalled by such lack
of insight, and that coming from such a prominent figure in
C! ornish politics.
I agree with Phil entirely about the waste of money on such
white elephants as the Millennium Dome, but I am realistic
(or cynical) enough to realise that if it had not been built,
the money saved would almost certainly not have found its
way to Cornwall (or Devon). Oh by the way, don't kid yourselves
that Westminster is contemplating giving devolved government
to Cornwall. One only has to read the White Paper to see that
this is not the case. If the Cornish people want their own
assembly (as the Devonians appear also to do), then go for
it, but you are hardly likely to succeed by issuing 'pie in
the sky' demands, or attempting to justify your case by presenting
indefensible, inaccurate, imaginary claims that you have nothing
in common with Devon.
Such claims can easily be demolished by knowledgeable people,
and only succeed in trivialising your case, while drawing
attention away from the justifiably valid points. Also, you
will end up alienating the good people of Devo! n, who would
otherwise back you to the hilt, as long as you were willing
to back them. I hope that Phil will understand my point of
view better now, and see that I am not the anti-Cornish bigot
that he had assumed I was. I do admit to using sarcasm sometimes
to illustrate the folly of adopting a siege mentality, and
to show how ridiculous it appears from an outside perspective.
Cornwall has a lot to offer, so please don't throw it all
away by appearing to be a bunch of isolationist cranks to
the outside world.
Bob Burns,
Barton-upon-Humber |
To the Pearly King and 'Passport to Pimlico'..... Dear Pearly,
leave it awwwt! Never heard of irony? No, I'm not talking
about ferrous metals, more a 'subtle' dig at those who think
they are SO different that they need to have their own self
governing regime. But only limited to a couple of areas in
England mind you, because the rest of the Country has to subsidise
the venture. So let's take the arguement to an extreme. Cornwall
has a population of about half a million. Now, if every area
within the Country of England of half a million souls wanted
to have their own parliament there would be over 100 parliaments.
You wouldn't be able to move for statute books, 'culture'
overdoses .... and politicians. Oh, - and that would also
mean there would be no central cash to subsidise the fledgling
democracies. You see Pearly, devolution only works if it is
limited to 'special cases' - but who decides which special
cases are valid? If they have shouldn't everyone get it?
Steve Garrett, Lancs |
Devolution must be argued on its own merits - claims based
on centuries-old documents are simply absurd. Passport to
Pimlico was fun but it was only fiction boys.
Pearly King, London |
|
Dear Korev
Can I reiterate the point that I made previously that it
is up to you to decide the democratic structures for your
region. It is not for me to comment on how people in Devon
decide to organise their affairs. I certainly am not advocating
any particular position. The example of the Wessex regionalists
was there to illustrate the fact that some people in England
have a different view of regional government to that proposed
by Whitehall.
If you
advocate a different option for Devon that commands popular
support - good luck to you. Devolution is an admirable objective
for all communities and I wish you well in pursuing that
objective. However please don't put words in my mouth or
surmise that I have any view on how you should organise
your own affairs.
Conan Jenkin - Comm. Officer MK, Truro, Kernow
|
|
Speaking as a Devonian (and I don't think that too many
here need telling that), I think I can assure Conan Jenkin
that he will have the support of the majority of the Devon
people in rejecting the Governments proposed South West
Region.
After
all, what do the Devonians (or the Cornish) have in common
with Gloucester or Swindon? But if the South West Region
is a non-starter, then the Wessex Region, as proposed by
the Wessex Regionalists (stretching from Plymouth to the
outskirts of both London and Birmingham) is totally unacceptable,
and stands no chance whatsoever of getting the Devon vote.
Now this may come as a surprise to Conan Jenkin and his
Nationalist pals, who thought they had done a deal with
Wessex Regionalists. Well you guys, the days of Devon being
kicked around like a football by the two of you are over.
We Devonians are currently in the process of telling the
Wessex Regionalists and their cronies just what they can
do with their Wessex Region.
Devon
was never an integral part of Wessex any more than Cornwall
was, and we don't intend to become such now, just because
it happens to suit the Cornish or the Wessaxens (whoever
they may be). Just in case Conan Jenkin thought it was time
to bring out the old, Athelstan and the Tamar (Celts one
side, Saxons the other), distortion of the truth again,
I must warn him that he is too late, as we have already
comprehensively demolished that nonsense once and for all.
No, if a Cornish Region is good enough for the Cornish,
then nothing less than a Devon Region is good enough for
the Devonians.
If
Conan Jenkin thinks that I am a lone voice in the wilderness
among Devonians, then I suggest he has a look in on the
equivalent 大象传媒 Devon board. We Devonians are not easily
roused, but when we are, I don't think you would want to
be on the other side in the argument. We don鈥檛 pull
our punches Conan Jenkin.
Bob
Burns, Barton-upon-Humber
|
I agree with Conan, in that this discussion should be about
Devolution - not about 'absolute' independence. However I
think I would point out that Conan's point about 'those across
the Tamar' who say that only size is important - is incorrect
- at least to a majority of those that have expressed their
views there.
Most (and the vast majority) on the Devon message board (have
a look) have stated that they seek an assembly for Devon (alone)
- none of this seven county nonsense - and none of this Wessex
nonsense either!!!! Neither Devon nor Cornwall were ever an
original part of Wessex. Saxon Wessex may have conquered both
Devon and Cornwall but neither of us are 'Wessaxens'.
Most of Devon respondents want BOTH Devon and Cornwall to
have an independent assembly each - or to stay as we are.
Only if it is a matter of 'unite or die' have Devonians suggested
we unite. The Wessex Society (all 35 of them - if you visit
their website) seek Devons inclusion into Wessex - based not
on what was originally part of Wessex (because Devon never
was) but rather on the basis that we all speak with a westcountry
accent.
Cornwall is only excused (for now - they were originally included!!)
because of MK opposition. Perhaps Conan would like to see
Devon included in Wessex because that makes a nice counterpoise
to a Kernewek assembly - perhaps he would be as keen to put
Kembry (Wales) or Bretan Vyghan (Brittany) to the sword if
it suits them short term. What lovely ethics! What Celtic
spirit? However - lets look at the bigger picture.
Why not an independent Devon AND an independent Cornwall.
We do have much in common - and one of those things is a desire
for independence and autonomy - and democracy at a 'local
level'. Is this so tough for MK to acknowledge. In a very
'uprising' the Cornish have ever had they have joined with,
or bee joined by, the Devon people. The Western Rebellion
(which started in Devon), the Cornish rebellion (when Cornish
partisans were joined by Devon yeoman as soon as they crossed
the Tamar), we have always acted with our different but common
but different interests at heart. Look into your hearts now.
We are not your foes.
Real victory will come when every each and every region within
Britain has true democracy and power. If the South East/London/"england'
wants a separate government - then fine - let those who want
it achieve it for themselves - but I don't see either Devonians
or Cornish wanting a bar of it. Neither do we Devonians want
the MK to turn traitor against the democratic ideals they
say they stand for. Surely if it is good enough for Cornwall
it is good enough for Devon. So - let me suggest a compromise.
The MK should shoulder an 'international' mantle and say that
as for Cornwall, Devon should only form part of a 'South West'
or 'Wessex' regional assembly if it democratically chooses
to do so. None of us have had that say yet, and we never will!!
Dun Alemma!
Coref, Noss Mayo, Devon |
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