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Do you support the
aims of Mebyon Kernow for a legislative Cornish Assembly for self-government
within the UK?
Or do you think greater
independence could put off investment from the rest of the UK?
Would we be better
off as part of a south west assembly or would we end up being governed
by Bristol and Exeter?
Do you feel Cornish,
British or both?
*latest mail from the top
Click
here to have your say now.
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Levels plumbed to new depths in cheap shots fiasco鈥︹.
Well
Adrian, I鈥檝e heard of new slants, getting a different angle or nuance
to an argument but your latest posting defies credibility, even
coming from one that has gone so far down the road to conversion
as yourself.
I
have to admit, I am still gasping with incredulity at the affront
of it all. You are well out of order, Adrian and you should be ashamed
of yourself. You have the absolute gall to compare the Tudor rose
with the Swastika and everything that means to a generation that
are in the twilight of their years. Yes Adrian, we are talking about
events that took place 60 years ago, not 500.
If
we are talking history, I don鈥檛 know whether you have heard, but
William the Conqueror has laid waste the North of England in an
act of reprisal. Thousands killed apparently. It only happened 1,000
years ago, but folk up here are still seething when anyone mentions
Normandy, sees bottles of Calvados or cheap reproductions of The
Bayeaux Tapestry (where is that spraycan). Do you see how absolutely
pathetic that sounds?
Please
do not try to intellectualise and justify your paper thin argument,
it aint right and it aint clever. The two do not bear comparison
in any context whatsoever. Your mind boggling justification for
all those brave boys and their spray can handy work, is that when
they see a Tudor Rose, they see a Nazi style Swastika 鈥︹ Do me a
favour!
But
rest assured Adrian, those sign spoilers will still go about their
anti social business as long as the pipe smoking, cardy wearing,
dusty history book reading 鈥榠ntellectuals鈥 continue to goad them
on, giving them alibis鈥 of intent and a biased sense of history
鈥 from a safe distance, obviously. (Oh if I were only 20 years younger,
I would be there with you brave chaps at the 鈥榮ignpost front鈥 doing
my bit for our land 鈥︹ yeah right).
Steve Garrett, Lancs
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I don't know what Adrian Watts hopes to gain by claiming that I
have misquoted him. All he is succeeding in doing is digging himself
deeper into the mire.
How
could I have misquoted him when all I did was 'copy and paste' from
his post? Well, if he wants egg all over his face, here it comes
for all to see.
Anyone
wishing to check the validity of my quote, merely has to scroll
back through the postings to Adrian's post which begins:- "Well,
Tim, John Prescott is the monkey not the organ grinder." The penultimate
paragraph ends with the sentence:- "And historically, culturally,
ethnically, economically and politically Cornwall is quite distinct
from and different to Devon and points East."
So
when I attributed the words "ethnically different" to Adrian, when
referring to those from East of the Tamar, I was quoting his very
words. Adrian should try harder not to make a fool of himself in
future. Perhaps he should take a lesson from Phil T, who makes his
points using reasoned arguments. One may not agree with everything
Phil writes, but at least one can respect his views.
As
for the use of the Tudor Rose on signs, and the Tudor Monarchs being
sworn enemies of the Cornish following the Rebellions of 1497 and
1549, Adrian is again choosing to forget that large numbers of Devonians
took part (and died) in both rebellions (the 1549 Prayer Book Rebellion
actually started in Devon). We do not find the Devonians claiming
that the Tudors were sworn enemies of Devon and the Devonians, and
defacing signs with the Tudor Rose on them. To describe the Tudors
as being quintessentially English shows an ignorance of British
history. According to the Encyclopaedia Britannica, the House of
Tudor was an English royal dynasty of Welsh origin. In my book,
Welsh = Celtic. Certainly by the time of Elizabeth I, the Cornish
seem to have been well and truly allied to the monarchy in its opposition
to the threat from Spain. It would have been remarkable indeed if
"An Ordinale Kernewek" (The Cornish Ordinalia) had described the
Tudor monarchs as villains, as the three pieces were written circa
1400, about 85 years before the Tudor dynasty in England began,
and about 97 years before the first of the rebellions.
When
Adrian asks JL if he is ignorant, isn't it a bit like the pot calling
the kettle black? This only confirms a point I made previously,
that when ordinary Cornish residents try to express views, which
are not in agreement with those of the Nationalists, they are either
accused of being ignorant or just told to shut up by the Nationalists.
Whatever
happened to Cornish democracy and freedom of speech?
Bob Burns, Barton-upon-Humber
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I am a 14 yr old Cornish Boy and I feel that:
a) The Cornish Language should be re-generated here.
b) Cornwall should be a seperate country from the rest of Britain.
When people ask me what nationality i am, I say Cornish!! I don't
consider myself to be English, or British. Feel and Sound Cornish
because I am CORNISH!!!
KERNOW BYS VICKEN!
Jamie Best, St Austell
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Would the Israeli Tourist Board use a Swastika on signs to tourism
destinations within its territories (forget the occupied territories,
I mean within the pre-1967 border)? How would you feel if you were
Jewish or a gypsy or just non-German and saw a swastika on a tourist
signpost, anywhere in the world?
I would be offended, and I am sure most readers of this website would
be. My wife is German and she would be too, just as much. Both she
and I would feel proud to use spraypaint to do 'criminal damage' in
order to remove the offending symbol, were it ever to be used in such
a setting. we would be willing to go to jail for our beliefs in this
matter, as any self-respecting Briton would (or should) be. In India,
of course, the swastika has a different meaning and connotation. Rudyard
Kipling used one as a kind of personal logo. That use of the symbol
would not offend me. But the use of the Tudor Rose on signs in Cornwall
I, as an Englishman, find singularly inappropriate. Were I Cornish
born I would feel the same way about it as if it were a Nazi-style
swastika. All power to the spray painters' elbows, therefore!
The Tudor Rose became a symbol of unity after the civil wars between
York and Lancaster that almost destroyed medieval England. It has
since come to symbolise the English renaissance under the Tudors ...
and is thus a very appropriate emblem for the English Tourist Board,
for use in England (i.e. east of the Tamar). But the first and second
Tudor Kings, and their successors, were sworn enemies of Cornwall
and the Cornish, after 1497 and 1549 - unsurprisingly, givent the
role of the Cornish in almost ending their power and eventual dynasty
before it had properly begun. Any English person living in or visiting
Cornwall should read their history books if they don't believe my
assertion of an emotional and cultural parallel between the swatiska
and the Tudor rose, in this context.
I am sure Bob Burns can provide some apt references for suitable historical
sources (even if he has failed to prove his point in misquoting my
earlier posts). I would merely quote the Cornish Ordinalia, and the
references to King Tudor as the ubiquitous villain of the piece! JL,
by the way, are you Cornish, English or just ignorant?
Adrian Watts, Flushing, Falmouth |
Andrew Rowe describes
himself as a 'civil rights activist'. The London media gives very
little attention to what's happening in Cornwall. Perhaps Andrew -
or one of his brave comrades - could fill us in about the situation
down there. I, for one, want to hear about the detention camps, state
assassination of Cornish nationalists and institutionalised racism
against the Cornish by the English settler regime.
Pearly King, London |
Pointing the way like I was saying 鈥 鈥榮ignage鈥. Round where I live,
signs are for helping you to get from A to B via C, (without going
into the River Dee). I鈥檝e never consulted my kids about whether or
not there should be a representation of a Cheshire Cat, Lancashire
Hot-Pot, Scouse Mouse, Wigan Pie or Preston Guild on the signs that
鈥榩oint the way鈥. So I thought that Andrew鈥檚 justification for defacing
the brown signs of Cornwall was both overly romantic (a la Mel Gibson)
and vaguely hysterical.
Apparently, it鈥檚 because the kids of Cornwall, when asked, said that
they wanted some Cornish i.d. on each and every sign. Seems a bit
political don鈥檛 you think Andrew, almost like a bit of brainwashing
going on. I think they would be better served playing bouncy ball
or doing double Geoggers 鈥 rather than role-playing junior politic鈥搒peak.
It鈥檚 manipulation 鈥 pure and simple, to justify a streaky means to
an end, I dare say, Andrew that if you鈥檇 have asked them whether they
wanted Sonic the Hedgehog or the 鈥極bby 鈥極ss then the prickly one would
be adorning signs to The Lizard 鈥.. Tell me Andrew, they don鈥檛 have
little red books do they?
Of course, Andrew鈥檚 condemnation of JL regarding the brown signs issue
was not that he thought he was ill informed, or misguided 鈥 but rather
than he was ignorant of the facts 鈥 and moreover, the reason he was
ignorant was because he was ENGLISH. A nice bit of stereotyping don鈥檛
you think. Racist? Who knows? Well Andrew certainly does! All JL said
was that he was a RESIDENT of Cornwall. Apparently, on the planet
鈥楢ndrew鈥 that must mean he is an 鈥榠ncomer鈥. And if he is an incomer,
then obviously he MUST be English. 鈥 QED. What鈥檚 up Andrew, doesn鈥檛
JL qualify for an opinion? Ever read 鈥楤rave New World?
Steve Garrett, Lancs |
Well JL (North Cornwall), now you have the answer to your question
about who would represent Kernow if it got its own assembly. If Andrew
Rowe and his gang of paint spraying 'patriots' had any say in the
matter, it would be Kernow's primary school children. Andrew isn't
even waiting for the assembly to become a reality, as he is already
doing what the primary school kids are telling him to do. I expect
that if the Cornish one-year-olds started to throw their toys out
of their prams, he and his gang would have oversized prams constructed
and do likewise. Is this the shape of things to come in the Brave
New Kernow? Andrew Rowe clearly didn't heed my previous post here,
when I pointed out that the ancient monuments, such as the menhirs,
dolmen, stone rows and circles, are no more the heritage of the Iron
Age Celts of Kernow, than they are the heritage of the English, whoever
they may be. My ancestors, the Bronze Age People, built these monuments
before Kernow or St. Piran even existed. So Andrew Rowe and his gang
of vandals have no right to change or deface the signs in the name
of the descendents of the upstart Iron Age Celts. But then, I don't
suppose that his knowledge of the history of Kernow even matches that
of his seven-year-old future assembly members. Den
an Fro Breidh, Teh Kren Hueh, Keas Grim |
I would like to
reply to JL (north Cornwall) ignorant attitude towards the 鈥渧andals鈥
of the brown tourist signs. I would like to inform you that the county
council gave the decision to the children of Cornwall鈥檚 primary schools,
to which there answer was, almost without exception, that there should
be the flag of St Piran on the brown tourist signs. I do think that
your statement about 鈥渂urning down holiday cottages鈥 was simply out
of touch and exactly what I would expect from an Englishman living
in Cornwall. We as Cornish civil rights activists sprays the signs
because of what our children said and because we fundamentally do
not agree with English symbolism in Cornwall. Andrew
Rowe, PZ |
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Signs, fines and much maligns... I had packed away my mouse to do
something a bit more productive, vowing not to post on this site
again. Now and again, just occasionally, I dip in to see what the
regular contributors are saying. Of course, there would come a time
when I would rise to the bait 鈥 and here I am! Needless to say Tim
from Cardiff is the catalyst 鈥︹ So 鈥 Signposts, what could you possibly
find 鈥榠naccurate and offensive鈥 about some of the signage in Cornwall?
Men at work? School children crossing? St Ives town centre 1 mile
ahead? Don鈥檛 seem too controversial do they? Nothing there to get
too wound up about. What about the places of interest? 'Eden Project
7 miles', 'Chysauser village straight ahead'. Well they seem OK.
But maybe they are 鈥榠naccurate鈥 because it鈥檚 not 7 miles but only
6, and it鈥檚 not straight ahead, but slightly to the left鈥. No, I
don鈥檛 think so.
But perhaps I am missing something 鈥︹aybe it鈥檚 because they are
made of metal 鈥 and the people that used to make them out of wood
are throwing their toys out of the pram 鈥 doesn鈥檛 seem too likely
though. There must be another reason 鈥︹. No Tim, I can鈥檛 see it,
you will have to give me a clue; hang on though, whenever I am looking
for 鈥榯he baddies鈥 I go through my 鈥榰sual suspects鈥 file. Got it!
Sorry I鈥檓 a bit thick 鈥 but I鈥檓 English, so you have to make allowances.
It鈥檚 us, isn鈥檛 it Tim? We鈥檙e the problem, or rather our descriptor.
鈥楨nglish鈥 - and its terrifying and presumptuous amalgamation with
the words 鈥楬eritage鈥 and 鈥楾ourism鈥.
WOW,
I can see what you mean, it鈥檚 political dynamite alright. I can
see the shadow of the Teutonic jackboot already across your green
and pleasant land propagated via the cunning plan of blanket sign
coverage. It鈥檚 got me thinking though. Tim, you live in Wales, you鈥檙e
probably aware of their version of English Heritage 鈥 鈥楥adw鈥. Preferred
slogans of that organisation 鈥楬eritage of Wales鈥 and 鈥榃elsh Historic
Monuments鈥 Well Tim, it works for me, or does it? Browsing their
web site I read that apparently 鈥楢t no other time has the conservation
of our heritage and environment been so important.
If you cherish our country's heritage, traditions and splendid architecture,
become a member of "Heritage in Wales" and help us protect the threatened
landscape and buildings in our care鈥. So, presumably that includes
the massive chain of castles commissioned and built by Edward 1
and his English builders to subdue the Welsh. Indeed, Caernavon,
Conwy etc are the star attractions of Welsh Heritage. Funny, but
I couldn't see Owen Glendwr looking at Conwy castle and thinking
鈥楪osh, it鈥檚 a fine example of Welsh gothic鈥.
Following your line of thought I as an Englishman, should be getting
all hot and bothered, because they are English castles and NOT Welsh.
Following your line of thought, I as a 鈥榩ublic spirited citizen鈥
should put the matter right myself. Presumably, I will need to get
rid of the Cadw Celtic cross emblem on all castle directional signs
and then whack on a Tudor rose motif. If I did it Tim, would it
in your words 鈥楪ive a very positive message to all concerned鈥, and
鈥榳ill not allow bureaucratic arrogance to get away with trampling
on my rights鈥. Do you really think that Tim? Or do you think that
the group of over sensitive, immature vandals that attacked the
signage in Cornwall should be denounced as the hooligans they are
rather than be nobly defended as some sort of lexicographic freedom
fighters by 鈥榬ight鈥 minded contributors to this site?
Steve Garrett, Lancs
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On the history of relations between Paw Saws and Kernow (England,
or more literally, 'the country of the English', and Cornwall) Bob
Burns may not have heard the 大象传媒 Radio 4 programme aired at 3pm on
Tuesday 19 November. This gave chapter and verse for ethnic cleansing
by the early medieval English Kings against other peoples within Britain.
Bob has previously argued that no such thing ever happened. Radio
4 quoted sources, including the Anglo Saxon Chronicle, for a decision
by King Aethelread and his Council for the massacre of all male Danes
within England (probably just the South) on St Brice's day, November
13th 1002.
There is evidence that this policy decision was implemented with the
slaughter of Danes in Oxford and possibly Exeter and elsewhere. If
Wessex could follow a policy of deliberate ethnic cleansing against
the Danes (with whom the Kings and later Earls of independent Cornwall
were allied) it seems unlikely that they would have hesitated to do
so against the Cornish, as Bob has argued. He has questioned the evidence
that such a policy was carried out by King Athelstan, whom it is widely
accepted in Cornwall did make it lawful for Saxons to take the lives
of the 'wealas' (including Cornishmen) both in Devon (especially Exeter)
and Cornwall, and unlawful under Saxon law for the Cornish to hold
land West of the Tamar.
These are still known to Cornish historians as Athelstan's Statutes
... this may explain why the Charter of Exeter Cathedral (granted
by the King of the English) in 1050 was witnessed solely by nobles
and churchmen with Saxon names. Not one name of any Cornishman or
of the Defnas. for that matter, signed that charter, which abolished
both the existing diocese of St Germans in Cornwall and of Crediton
in Devon, in order to concentrate West Saxon church and military resources
inside the Roman walls of Exeter ... against raids by large Danish
(and possibly Cornish) forces by land and sea. Not that this matters
much today ... especially since for as long as Bob is living by the
Humber, he will have no vote in any devolution referendum in Cornwall
or Devon. Neither will Pearly King or Steve Garrett! And everyone
living in Cornwall can make up their own individual minds about a
Senedh Kernow when the time comes to vote!
Adrian Watts, Flushing, Falmouth |
Valid points from JL, but do you honestly think that Cornwall is incapable
of finding a few competent local politicians from a population of
over 500,000? As for who pays, if tax revenue was the same as it is
now and Cornwall was to control all of it, then we would receive 350
million pounds more than we do now, without increasing taxation.
I think that Cornwall could improve if it were given a similar status
to say Bermuda, where I lived for three years. They are a self governing,
self financing, British Protectorate who receive very little financial
support from the British Government. Admittedly they have a very small
island (approximately 50 square miles) and only about a 50,000 鈥渋ndigenous鈥
population, but they survive very comfortably, mainly because of tourism.
Their health system is a semi-private scheme where private insurance
payments are necessary if you can afford it. If you cannot afford
it then the government pays for your treatment (similar to the NH!
S here).
There are many ways of raising indirect taxation, for example, in
many countries hospitality taxes are enforced for things like hotel
bills, restaurant bills, etc. We could use the old technique of reducing
prices to encourage increase in sales on items like alcohol, fuel,
etc. where there are already taxes applied. From an industrial point
of view, Cornwall could sell it鈥檚 surplus water and environmentally
friendly electricity (which could be obtained through wind power,
sea power, or wood-fuelled power stations).
There are many ways we could improve the local economy utilising resources
that we already have, for example farming, horticulture and forestry.
We could also encourage high tech industries into the county using
many types of incentive. For example Falmouth could become a Free
Port, and obviously we have tourism to fall back on. I realise that
a lot of my ideas may be very ambitious, but none of them are impossible.
There are better brains than mine out there who could sort it out
and make it successful.
Phil,T, Cornishman in Oman |
Cornwall has some
excellent politicians at Westminster. Paul Tyler, for example, represents
the interests of his community very effectively at the centre of power.
Who could we expect to form the majority of those sitting in a Cornish
assembly? Our current local authority councillors perhaps? Overnight,
the Chairman of the Bogs and Drains Committee would become Minister
for the Environment of Cornwall. Frankly, the prospect does not fill
me with confidence.
While we have some very committed local politicians, I simply do not
believe they would be up to the job of administering a Cornwall detached
from central Government. And who would pay for the increased administrative
costs and trappings of power that a Cornish assembly would inevitably
demand? The people of Cornwall, of course. Another excuse to increase
the local taxes of one of the poorest areas in Europe is just what
we don't need. Returning to the subject of tourist sign vandalism,
how exactly does graffiti give a positive message of any sort? On
the contrary, it gives a message that there is a small group of unrepresentative,
half-witted vandals roaming the County. It is ironic that certain
people who profess to love Cornwall seem intent on turning it into
vandalised slum.
JL, North Cornwall |
Just a quick reply
to Bob Burns, I do acknowledge the fact that there are some areas
that are ALMOST as impoverished as Cornwall, but this site is about
the Cornish situation and what we should do about it. I actually live
(when I'm in England) in one of those Plymouth postal code areas which
are so impoverished, and it's in Cornwall!!!
Most of South East Cornwall has a Plymouth postal code. I agree some
areas of Devon are nearly as impoverished as Cornwall, but not Pymouth
as a whole. Plymouth, by the way houses something like 30% of the
total Devon population. Some areas of Plymouth do need help, not so
much Stonehouse, but Devonport certainly does and so too North Prospect.
That, unfortunately is a result of inner city decay and, in Plymouth's
case, the reduction in government spending on the Armed Forces, especially
the Naval Dockyards.
It is quite obvious that we are primarily interested in our own families
and friends situations above those of, say, Lancashire e or Liverpool.
It is only natural. We have waited decades for the British government
to recognise our situation, without any real progress being made.
A lot of us now feel that the time has come to start pressurising
the British Government into actually doing something about the decay
and deterioration that we are experiencing in our part of the planet.
After all, it's the only part that really matters to most of us. It
may be narrow minded, and it may not suit other people, but we are
fed up with being exploited and ridiculed and some of us intend to
do something about it, for the benefit, mostly, of our families.
Phil T, Cornishman in Oman |
I'd like to venture to disagree with JL on two counts.
Firstly, to follow his argument to its logical conclusion, we ought
to abolish elections entirely. The quality of elected public representative
depends entirely on us, the electorate. And far from 'punching above
our weight', we scarcely even register on the consciousness of the
Protecting Power's rulers in London. Only an elected Assembly with
full powers of self-government, repsonsible to us, will have the clout
to ensure that our concerns get any attention at all. Secondly, when
the persons responsible for inaccurate and offensive signs refused
to correct them, public-spirited citizens were left with no choice
but to put the matter right themselves. This gives a veru positive
message to all concerned, of a community that has self-respect and
will not allow bureaucratic arrogance to get away with trampling on
our rights.
Tim, Caerdydd |
Well we're not going to get a choice, despite the title of May's White
Paper, "Your Region, Your Choice". I responded to the White Paper
under the heading, "Our Region, Our Choice", arguing that Cornwall
is our region (in the terms proposed by the Government) and that is
our choice.
I argued that if and when there is a referendum for a devolved South
West Region (the Seven County model proposed by Whitehall) then there
should be two questions, as was the case in the Scottish Devolution
Referendum. In the case of Cornwall (or for that matter any of the
other six counties in the Government Office Region of the South West)
there should be two questions:
(a) asking whether or not voters agree in principle with devolution
of some Westminster and Whitehall powers to an elected regional assembly
as set out in the White Paper or a future Bill and
(b) whether that assembly should serve Cornwall in its own right,
or all seven counties. This is the Government's reply to my letter,
dated 2 October: "Dear Mr Watts, Thank you for your letter of 24 August
about the Government's proposals for elected regional assemblies.
Your comments have been noted. I apologise for the delay in response.
"Ministers are aware of the arguments in favour of a Cornish Assembly.
It is their belief, however, that the boundaries, which Government
Offices have, and which elected regional assemblies will follow, are
a credible size to support the sort of strategic assembly that the
White Paper proposes. Regions significantly smaller than these would
raise major questions about the distinction between regional and local
government.
For example, simply giving Cornwall the same powers that Ministers
envisage giving to elected regional assemblies would lose the benefits
of joining up policies that affect a far wider region - such as economic
development - under a directly elected body.
As the White Paper says, there will be scope for regional assemblies
to organise their activities sub-regionally where they think this
would be desirable. Ministers had places like Cornwall in mind here,
and in their view, this could well represent an attractive way forward
for the county.
"Yours sincerely, Robert Cringle, Regional Governance White Paper
Team, Office of the Deputy Prime Minister."
I am not happy with this reply. Indeed I find it patronising, arrogant
and bloody-minded. Part of me says 'if that's the way they want it
...' But before I reply, or start organising (with others) a campaign
of non-violent civil disobedience in order to ensure that any such
referendum asks at least one fair question, I would like to know what
readers of this website think. So please post your thoughts here.
Thank you.
Adrian Watts, Flushing, Falmouth |
I don't disagree with your ideas, Phil, except that I'd put it the
other way round. Our people need an assembly for Cornwall. The only
region for Cornwall is - Cornwall. What our neighbours on the other
side of the Tamar want is up to them. I, and most people I know, would
feel bound in priniciple to endorse their choice. By the same token,
we will expect them to endorse our choice.
Tim, Caerdydd |
According to Bert Biscoe then the choices are:
1) Stay as we are
2) A seven county assembly, all with equal rights
3) A seven county assembly, with extra rights for Cornwall
4) A six county assembly and a separate Cornish assembly.
I personally think that number 4 is the best way to go for Cornwall.
Phil T, Cornishman
in Oman |
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I submitted my previous post before Conan Jenkin's reply to Coref
appeared. Having now read that post, I unreservedly withdraw what
I said concerning apparent complicity between Mebyon Kernow and
Wessex Regionalists. It was unfortunate timing that Conan referred
to Wessex Regionalists at a time when Coref and I were in disagreement
with the Wessex Movement over their apparent hostile take over bid
for Devon. I would reiterate what I said before, that we Devonians
want nothing to do with the mega South West Region or Nick Xylas's
preferred Wessex Region. Therefore, it is most likely that Devonians
would vote against the Government defined South West Region.
Nick
Xylas declares that Wessex never claimed Cornwall as part of its
territory, so what a pity that he and his pals in the Wessex Movement
cannot seem to get the message that they are not wanted in Devon
either, despite overwhelming evidence for this from posts on the
大象传媒 Devon Devolution board. Nick states that he doesn't believe
that what is posted on such boards is reliable evidence, so why
is he reading, and posting to, this board?
Bob
Burns, Barton-upon-Humber
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The Cornish Constitutional Convention is the organisation leading
the campaign to establish a devolved regional Assembly for Cornwall.
It is a cross-Party, cross-sector democratic organisation. Could
I also point out that a new report, "The Cornish Question: devolution
in the South West region" has been published this week.
It is by Mark Sandford of the Constitution Unit of University College
of London. Here is its Executive Summary, which may help some of
your correspondents to focus upon a real constitutional issue -
and one which will be achieved.
Executive
Summary
鈥 The South-West Region is diverse and contains a wide range of
economic, social and cultural variety. There are no pre-set or 鈥榦bvious鈥
boundaries which a regional assembly in the South-West must follow.
鈥 There is a need for more research into the economy of the South-West
Region, and greater detailed exploration into how it inter-relates
with possible new democratic structures and what exists in the way
of regional identity. The knowledge base on these issues in the
UK is almost non-existent.
鈥
The proposals made in the Government鈥檚 White Paper, Your Region,
Your Choice, allow for elected regional bodies which will have only
limited influence whatever regional boundaries are used. It is therefore
unlikely that assemblies covering any geographical area will be
able to effect high-profile capital-spending projects. A small population
size should not be an insurmountable hindrance to regional government
under these plans.
鈥
The South-West Region has little in the way of regional identity:
however, there a strong case that a stronger identity exists in
Cornwall. Territorial identities need not automatically map directly
on to government structures, but can be advantageous when creating
new political institutions.
鈥 Three models are suggested for elected regional government in
the South-West Region. Model 1 is a single elected assembly for
the entire region, as implied under the Government鈥檚 proposals.
Model 2 proposes an elected assembly for Cornwall and another elected
assembly for the remainder of the South-West Region. Model 3 proposes
a single elected assembly with a variety of special arrangements
for Cornwall.
鈥
A Cornish assembly, with the powers and functions proposed under
the White Paper, would be administratively feasible. However, since
very few government departments locate any staff in Cornwall at
present, much governmental reorganisation would be required to achieve
it. Under current Government plans its budget runs the risk of being
very small, possibly in the region of 拢40 million.
鈥 A unitary authority for Cornwall beneath a South-West regional
assembly would strengthen Cornwall鈥檚 voice in negotiations with
that assembly, but would represent only a small difference from
the current structure of local government. It is unlikely that a
South-West regional assembly would be able to devolve responsibilities
to a unitary Cornwall under a Regional Assemblies Act.
鈥
Model 3 suggests a variety of special arrangements for Cornwall
within the context of a single South-West regional assembly. These
include an executive office for Cornwall, a Cornish scrutiny committee
(potentially with members co-opted from Cornish local government),
a joint Strategy for Cornwall, and over-representation for Cornwall
in the South-West regional assembly.
鈥
This model would require further thought with regard to how a separate
Cornish Office would contribute to the strategies and high-level
targets that assemblies will have to meet. These could limit the
Cornish Office鈥檚 room for manoeuvre. The Cornish Office would be
subject to similar budgetary pressures to those of a Cornish assembly.
鈥 The decision to establish a Cornish assembly, if taken, should
be subject to a referendum in Cornwall only.
鈥
The claim that a Cornish assembly would not have enough 鈥榗lout鈥
to make a difference is not clearly articulated. It is open to debate
whether population and budget size would be critical in intergovernmental
negotiations. Moreover, inter-regional redistribution through public
funds will continue after any elected regional assemblies are created
in England.
鈥 Politically, the Government is very unlikely to create regional
assemblies on any other lines than those set out in the White Paper.
The potential controversies around establishing a Cornish assembly,
in the overall light of English regional policy, is likely to deter
the Government from engaging in complex debate on the fundamental
issues involved. M Sandford UCL
This report was jointly commissioned by the Cornish Constitutional
Convention and the SW Constitutional Convention, with funding from
Joseph Rowntree Foiundation via Campaign for English Regions (CEFR).
Copies
will be available from Cornish Constitutional Convention priced
拢6 (+拢1.50 p&p). I hope that the contents above inform and extend
the debate which is at the forefront of Cornish affairs.
Bert Biscoe, Chair, Cornish Constitutional Convention
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A factual correction, Cornwall has *never* been part of Wessex Society's
definition of Wessex. We were well aware of calls for an independent
Cornwall, dating back 50 years or more, but these calls for an independent
Devon are a new one on me, and all the other WS members I have spoken
to say the same thing. We would not seek to stand in the way of
a Devon independence movement, if that's what the people of Devon
want. I have already made these points on the 大象传媒 Devon website.
Nick Xylas, Bristol, Wessex
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Dear Korev
Can I reiterate the point that I made previously that it is up to
you to decide the democratic structures for your region. It is not
for me to comment on how people in Devon decide to organise their
affairs. I certainly am not advocating any particular position.
The example of the Wessex regionalists was there to illustrate the
fact that some people in England have a different view of regional
government to that proposed by Whitehall.
If you advocate
a different option for Devon that commands popular support - good
luck to you. Devolution is an admirable objective for all communities
and I wish you well in pursuing that objective. However please don't
put words in my mouth or surmise that I have any view on how you
should organise your own affairs.
Conan Jenkin - Comm. Officer MK, Truro, Kernow
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Speaking as a Devonian (and I don't think that too many here need
telling that), I think I can assure Conan Jenkin that he will have
the support of the majority of the Devon people in rejecting the
Governments proposed South West Region.
After
all, what do the Devonians (or the Cornish) have in common with
Gloucester or Swindon? But if the South West Region is a non-starter,
then the Wessex Region, as proposed by the Wessex Regionalists (stretching
from Plymouth to the outskirts of both London and Birmingham) is
totally unacceptable, and stands no chance whatsoever of getting
the Devon vote.
Now this may come as a surprise to Conan Jenkin and his Nationalist
pals, who thought they had done a deal with Wessex Regionalists.
Well you guys, the days of Devon being kicked around like a football
by the two of you are over. We Devonians are currently in the process
of telling the Wessex Regionalists and their cronies just what they
can do with their Wessex Region.
Devon
was never an integral part of Wessex any more than Cornwall was,
and we don't intend to become such now, just because it happens
to suit the Cornish or the Wessaxens (whoever they may be). Just
in case Conan Jenkin thought it was time to bring out the old, Athelstan
and the Tamar (Celts one side, Saxons the other), distortion of
the truth again, I must warn him that he is too late, as we have
already comprehensively demolished that nonsense once and for all.
No, if a Cornish Region is good enough for the Cornish, then nothing
less than a Devon Region is good enough for the Devonians.
If
Conan Jenkin thinks that I am a lone voice in the wilderness among
Devonians, then I suggest he has a look in on the equivalent 大象传媒
Devon board. We Devonians are not easily roused, but when we are,
I don't think you would want to be on the other side in the argument.
We don鈥檛 pull our punches Conan Jenkin.
Bob
Burns, Barton-upon-Humber
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I agree with Conan, in that this discussion should be about Devolution
- not about 'absolute' independence. However I think I would point
out that Conan's point about 'those across the Tamar' who say that
only size is important - is incorrect - at least to a majority of
those that have expressed their views there.
Most (and the vast majority) on the Devon message board (have a look)
have stated that they seek an assembly for Devon (alone) - none of
this seven county nonsense - and none of this Wessex nonsense either!!!!
Neither Devon nor Cornwall were ever an original part of Wessex. Saxon
Wessex may have conquered both Devon and Cornwall but neither of us
are 'Wessaxens'.
Most of Devon respondents want BOTH Devon and Cornwall to have an
independent assembly each - or to stay as we are. Only if it is a
matter of 'unite or die' have Devonians suggested we unite. The Wessex
Society (all 35 of them - if you visit their website) seek Devons
inclusion into Wessex - based not on what was originally part of Wessex
(because Devon never was) but rather on the basis that we all speak
with a westcountry accent.
Cornwall is only excused (for now - they were originally included!!)
because of MK opposition. Perhaps Conan would like to see Devon included
in Wessex because that makes a nice counterpoise to a Kernewek assembly
- perhaps he would be as keen to put Kembry (Wales) or Bretan Vyghan
(Brittany) to the sword if it suits them short term. What lovely ethics!
What Celtic spirit? However - lets look at the bigger picture.
Why not an independent Devon AND an independent Cornwall. We do have
much in common - and one of those things is a desire for independence
and autonomy - and democracy at a 'local level'. Is this so tough
for MK to acknowledge. In a very 'uprising' the Cornish have ever
had they have joined with, or bee joined by, the Devon people. The
Western Rebellion (which started in Devon), the Cornish rebellion
(when Cornish partisans were joined by Devon yeoman as soon as they
crossed the Tamar), we have always acted with our different but common
but different interests at heart. Look into your hearts now. We are
not your foes.
Real victory will come when every each and every region within Britain
has true democracy and power. If the South East/London/"england' wants
a separate government - then fine - let those who want it achieve
it for themselves - but I don't see either Devonians or Cornish wanting
a bar of it. Neither do we Devonians want the MK to turn traitor against
the democratic ideals they say they stand for. Surely if it is good
enough for Cornwall it is good enough for Devon. So - let me suggest
a compromise. The MK should shoulder an 'international' mantle and
say that as for Cornwall, Devon should only form part of a 'South
West' or 'Wessex' regional assembly if it democratically chooses to
do so. None of us have had that say yet, and we never will!! Dun Alemma!
Coref, Noss Mayo, Devon |
Of course, this discussion is not about independence its about devolution.
A Cornish Assembly would acquire 'powers' presently centralised in
Whitehall. Other assemblies in England would presumably choose to
do the same, if the will of the people demand it.
We believe in Cornwall that there is a coalition of support that will
agree to devolution to a Cornish Assembly. Personally as a Cornish
Nationalist, I would argue a similar case to our colleagues in the
Scottish National Party and Plaid Cymru for much greater independence.
In Cornwall, we believe that we have had a raw deal from central government
and that small is beautiful - a Cornish region is a natural cultural,
geographical, political and economic region. I would urge all those
in England to argue against the prescribed regional borders issued
out of central government and press the case for regions that better
reflect the traditional communities and identities - it is up to you
to decide and argue the case.
For example Wessex regionalists see a very different set of borders
than those proposed for the South West. Most arguments against greater
devolution for Cornwall are the same that were formally presented
against Wales in 1930s and 1940s, Scotland and Ireland in the previous
century.
The two principle arguments include:- You are too small... You are
too heavily subsidised... Size, despite the prevailing view across
the Tamar is irrelevant - its what you do with it! There is a substantial
list of self-governing states & regions across the globe which are
of comparable size or smaller than Cornwall either in terms of landmass
or population size. (Iceland as just one example). The fiscal relationship
between the taxpayers of Cornwall and central government is complex.
However in a recent article in the Business Age magazine this relationship
was described as Cornwall being fiscally raped by central government.
The tax take is way more than has ever been returned in any subsidy
including Objective One. We are of course like many other parts of
the UK subsidising London and the SE of England. Perhaps our compatriots
in England should be arguing for the devolution of public services
out of London to the hard pressed regions of England to alter the
economic disparities within UK. I wish you well. Oll an gwella.
Conan Jenkin - Comm. Officer MK, Truro, Kernow |
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