大象传媒

John Clarkson

Transcript of being interviewed by the
WAR DEPARTMENT
When he was by then already in his 90鈥檚

JC= John Clarkson
WD = War Department

WD Could you tell me when and where you were born Mr. Clarkson?
JC I was born at number 17 Ripon Street, Blackburn

WD What was the date?
JC The date was 26th May 1899

WD And what did your father do for a living?
JC My father was a jeweller. He served his time to being a jeweller and then he left that and he went to be an engineer. We moved from that address to Audley Lane, Blackburn and from Audley Lane, Blackburn we went to Mill Hill.

WD In Blackburn?
JC In Blackburn, it鈥檚 the outskirts

WD How many were there in your family?
JC There were! I had two sisters and a brother 鈥� me, three of us there was.

WD And do you remember much about your early life when you were a kid?
JC There was pretty well nothing too unusual, no I don鈥檛 think so.

WD Was it a comfortable childhood?
JC O yes! Oh yes! O yes! And my father died eventually, we moved back to Blackburn by the way, and he could get a job anywhere that chap. He set up house then in, where did we go? In Alker Street, Blackburn

WD What kind of houses were they that they lived in, were they comfortable?
JC O yes! O yes! They were in a row of houses, there weren鈥檛 many semi-detached houses then you know, and er! We lived on there then until we moved again to Winchester Street, Blackburn. No 1 I鈥檓 wrong, too early, we moved to Park Road, Blackburn, Park Road. From Park Road we moved to Culvert Street, Blackburn and in Culvert Street my father died.

WD What year was that, do you remember?
JC That was, yes, it would be 1911, I would say 1911. I was only young; I was going to school anyway
WD Now you moved house quite a lot, why was that was it just as your father changed jobs?
JC As I say he could get a job anywhere and he picked and chose, I must admit he was brilliant chap, but he used his brains in the wrong direction and he never materialised what he would have done had he done as he could or should have done, he didn鈥檛 do, however, he come to die in Culvert Street. He was buried and from there my mother and two sisters we moved to Winchester Street.

WD Did it cause any problems when your father died? When your father died were the family able to manage without him?
JC Well, of course we got too, we got too, he had a stroke and he was an invalid for three years, three years and he gradually deteriorated until he eventually died.

WD Did you have enough money coming into the house during that period, during his illness and after he died?
JC O yes! O yes! So eventually he died and then he was buried, we moved then to Winchester Street. Well in Winchester Street I was getting ready for work I got halftime I was a Half-timer.

WD Just ask you, which schools did you go to in Blackburn?
JC I went to a three schools, St. Mathews Infants, Norfolk Street, Mill Hill and Christ Church in Mosley Street, that鈥檚 all Blackburn.

WD What sort of education did you get though?
JC Just an ordinary secondary education, just an ordinary one, I liked my school, oh yes.

WD Where you a member of any of the Boys Associations that were being formed at the time, Boys Brigade or Boy Scouts?
JC They weren鈥檛 to that extent that they are now, no, I don鈥檛 think I could do that

WD Any interest in sport?
JC I were a keen footballer, I was a keen footballer and I do think that if I had pursued it I would have gone far, although I say it myself, however!

WD Who did you play for?
JC Well it was only local teams, it was St. Mathews, mainly St. Mathews and Christ Church Boys School. I won a medal with Christ Church Boys School and from there I went!

WD You went half time you said. What did you mean, what were you doing?
JC Well actually, I鈥檓 still a school. I go to school until dinner times, and then at dinnertime I leave school and go to the mill and I work from half past twelve, no! Half past one until half past five. I am only twelve years of old. I do that for a week and then the week after I changed over to mornings, I go in the mornings to work and school in the afternoon.

WD So you went to the mill in about 1911 that was when you were about twelve.
JC It would be, yes, it would be

WD Which mill was it, do you remember its name?
JC Canton Mill, first I learned at Canton Mill

WD And what did you learn, what trade did you take?
JC Weaving, weaving and from there I was moved then to, my sister was teaching me, we moved to Baines, John Baines Cecily Bridge, Blackburn that鈥檚 been running until very lately I believe its just gone out of print at present it鈥檚 trailed on, the trades disappearing, finishing off, its just finished I鈥檓 very sorry.

WD You were doing half-time from 1911 was that until you were 14?
JC Until I was 13, I left at 13, only twelve months of this and then after 13 I鈥檓 full blown, I got two looms on my own at 13. I had two looms on my own.

WD How did you work the looms, do you remember what you did can you tell us?
JC O yes! O yes! (Laughter) Well you wouldn鈥檛 follow it if I鈥�

WD There might be some who would, so if tell us for the tape.
JC Well of course. The yarn comes in a great big roll, it鈥檚 put on and it weaves it and then shuttle goes backwards and forwards and it threads through, as it comes through it threads through and bangs it up and threads through you see. At the bottom it rolls up creates its own importance at the bottom until a mark will comes at say its finished, well you stop then and take that out and that foes into the warehouse and then it[s inspected then and if you have done something you shouldn鈥檛 do you will get fined three pence

WD What kind of thing might you do wrong that would get you fined? You said you got fined if you did something wrong, what sort of thing would you do?
JC Well if you were neglectful and you hadn鈥檛 done as you should have done, pick bits off, stop the loom if it was fast, it wasn鈥檛 going, there were threads coming as shouldn鈥檛 do, you stop the loom. Well if you were a bit negligent and let it go on, it rolled on and your mistake was going on there you see, so that when he inspected it 鈥淥 look at it, look at it, fetch him鈥� you had to be charged three pence, three pence.

WD Would you make many mistakes, did you make many mistakes?
JC (Laughter) Well yes and I got so far that I didn鈥檛 care two pence and of course I鈥檓 getting 14 and 15 and 16 and I thought this, I鈥檓 going to finish up nowhere here so
WD Hang on just before you go on there, what was it like in the mill you know as a factory environment what was it like?
JC Well there was mainly curtains mainly as a rule, window blinds. When you put them up at a window you can tell a fault straight away you see when you put them at the window.

WD That was what you were making?
JC Yes. Yes

WD And what was it like in the factory, was it noisy?
JC O terrific, deafening, I do believe that is why I wear a deaf aid now, through that, I do believe that, however I鈥檝e had good wear out of them so I can鈥檛 worry (laughter). So how far have I got, can I get on a bit now?

WD Yes alright.
JC Well I come to be 16 and the war was on, the war was on then

WD Hang on! Just before, so you were in the factory when the war was declared?
JC O yes, yes

WD Do you remember the day war was declared at all?
JC The day, I couldn鈥檛 tell you the exact day, I know the 4th August, but the day I wouldn鈥檛 know the day.

WD How did you feel when war broke out because you were only young, you were only about 15?
JC Well of course, I was young eventful and I thought that鈥檚 something exciting is that, something out of the ordinary.

WD You didn鈥檛 think it would involve you though?
JC Not then, not then.

WD What about, was there any mistreatment or attacks on Germans?
JC No, I wouldn鈥檛 say so.

WD In the town, any attacks on German shops?
JC No, no, no, and the remainder, a few went, a few reservists were called up and a few volunteered to go and of course they said 鈥淥 send him a parcel and send the other fellow a Christmas card and goodness knows what鈥� and I used to look and grin and I though if I were in I鈥檇 get them. So it come about, I thought I鈥檓 going to enlist. I said 鈥淗ey mother, I鈥檓 going to list鈥�. Well what for? 鈥淲ell鈥� I said 鈥淚t鈥檚 going to over with and I鈥檝e never gone鈥�. 鈥淲ell what are you bothered about?鈥� 鈥淚t doesn鈥檛 matter鈥� I said, 鈥淚鈥檓 going to go.鈥� So my sister said 鈥淭ell him he hasn鈥檛 to go mother, tell him hasn鈥檛 to go.鈥� So I thought well I have no father, now these only these three 鈥淥鈥� I said 鈥淚鈥檓 going to go.鈥� So of course they got that impatient that they said 鈥淕et gone then鈥� and true enough I went and 鈥榞ot gone鈥� I went and I listed.

WD How did you go about that which recruiting office did you go to?
JC I went to Canterbury Street Barracks at Blackburn

WD And what happened when you got there?
JC He said 鈥� er now then 鈥� he said, - I鈥檓 only 16. He said, 鈥淔etch your insurance card.鈥� I thought 鈥榥ow then鈥� I said, 鈥淚 hadn鈥檛 one鈥� 鈥淲ell then you鈥檒l have to stop at home until you have one then.鈥� So that put me back quite a bit, anyway I come to be 16, come to be 16; I thought I鈥檝e got him now. So I went again and the mate that I had he went in the, what did he go in? He went in the Artillery, Jimmy Carr, he went in the Artillery and left me stranded then, well I was all the more keen to go, more determined to go. So I went again and told him 鈥淚鈥檝e got my Christmas! My card鈥� so he said 鈥淎re you 18?鈥� I said 鈥淥 yes I am 18鈥�. 鈥淲ell鈥� he said 鈥渃ome鈥� how did he out it 鈥渃ome when doctors here he鈥檒l be here鈥�, this was about on the Monday and on the Wednesday he said 鈥渄octor will be here and he鈥檒l pass whether you are fit or not.鈥� So of course on the Wednesday morning I didn鈥檛 go to work, they said 鈥淎re you not going鈥� 鈥淣o鈥� I said 鈥淣o.鈥� I went down, passed exam 鈥淥 yes鈥� I walked it easy. So of course I鈥檓 blown then, so we get sworn in as well and I said 鈥渘ow then.鈥� He said 鈥渃ome tomorrow we will fix you up with your uniform.鈥�

WD What date was this do you remember?
JC Yes February 8th 1917, no! 1916.

WD So you would be 16 and a half?
JC That鈥檚 right.

WD And didn鈥檛 they notice at your medical that you weren鈥檛 built up enough to be 18?
JC Well yes! More or less yes and I felt like!

WD And they passed you anyway?
JC Yes easy, I walked it as I say I walked very easy, I felt really good.

WD And they didn鈥檛 say anything about you looking younger?
JC No! No! No! They said you鈥檙e the youngest there is in this lot and they say 89, he鈥檚 89, like as if they doubted me being in 89, he said 鈥測ou should be over 90鈥�. The reason for this is because I went when I was 16 that鈥檚 why. I鈥檇 made them years up while was 16.

WD So this was February 8th 1916 you went and were told to come back, what happened then when you went to report?
JC I went to report and got my clothes they issued me with my uniform

WD At Canterbury Street Barracks?
JC Yes, to take them home and put them on and report then the day after again back with my uniform on.

WD Did you know which Regiment then that you were reporting to because you joined the East Lancs.?
JC East Lancs., East Lancs., Yes.

WD That was the one; you knew you were joining them did you?
JC Yes they had got a feeding Battalion there going, they get their recruits and then they send them to these different centres where they are training them you see. Well he said, 鈥淵ou鈥檒l have to go now鈥� where did they send me to? They sent me to Southport, in billets in Southport, I thought, this is easy its good is this.

WD And which feeding Battalion were you joining do you remember the number?
JC Yes I was in the Fourth Battalion, the Forth East Lancs., which was a Territorial Battalion. The nucleus had gone they had to get more recruits into the Forth you see. Well I was sent to Southport, we were billets at Southport.

WD Look I got quite a few questions to ask you about your training so if we could just run through them in order just starting with your billets, what were your billets like at Southport could you describe them?
JC Yes, it鈥檚 funny is that we went with the daughter and son-in-law and we went to Southport and I said 鈥渢hat鈥檚 the street where I was billeted in Bridge Street, off East Bank Street I remember it well鈥� and she were a nasty woman that woman.

WD What was wrong, what was nasty about her?
JC There was two of us billeted in each house and me and this other fellow were in and it was cold weather just like it鈥檚 been this morning, bitter cold weather and the regulations say you should have one man to each bed. She put us in a bed and she tied a rope to divide it instead, so of course we didn鈥檛 know any difference, we kept our own boundaries, we managed that way. One morning in particular I only told the son-in-law this the other week, one morning when the war was on they couldn鈥檛 blow reveille, they sent the fellow round blowing his whistle, you see the neighbours complained so he used to blow a whistle and go round. I said 鈥淗ey whistles gone come on get up. 鈥淚t鈥檚 too cold鈥� he replied. I said 鈥渋t is cold, we鈥檒l not go then.鈥� So we didn鈥檛 go on parade. It鈥檚 only a rouse parade to parade you to see that you were up and then go back again. I said 鈥渨e鈥檒l be back again in ten minutes when we鈥檝e answered.鈥� This landlady is listening on the landing; they hadn鈥檛 gone to work that morning. She went to Company Office and reported that Clarkson and this other fellow, I forget his name, hadn鈥檛 been on parade that morning. So she come back 鈥渘ow then鈥� she said 鈥淚鈥檒l learn you for being so awkward I鈥檝e reported you.鈥� I said 鈥測ou what! It鈥檚 got nothing to do with you.鈥� So she said 鈥渋t doesn鈥檛 matter you should be out with everybody else.鈥� 鈥淲ell鈥� I said, 鈥渨e won鈥檛 be.鈥� We were fetched up at the Company Office. We were charged with being absent on parade and were given seven days C.B. (Confined to Barracks) we couldn鈥檛 go out at nights we had to stop in at nights for seven days, so after that I always remembered that woman, what a woman that was.

WD Did she provide any food for you or did you get that yourselves?
JC O yes, she used to say 鈥渄on鈥檛 think that I鈥檓 making a lot of money out of you, you know, but I鈥檓 not鈥� 鈥淲ell鈥� I said 鈥測our not underpaid, I don鈥檛 know what you are getting but we are not getting much moneys worth out of it you can鈥檛 be getting much鈥�

WD What meals did she give you?
JC I couldn鈥檛 tell you what we had it weren鈥檛 good by any means and we had a full uniform. We hadn鈥檛 to have it in the house, we had to have it in the cabin at the bottom of the yard, we had to go and clean our buttons at the bottom of the yard she wouldn鈥檛 have us inside doing our buttons, which is ordinary. We were glad to get away from the place.

WD So it was an unpleasant atmosphere?
JC Unpleasant, it was really, very unpleasant. O! Terrific woman

WD Did she live on her own?
JC O no! She had a husband, he was an invalid, he had a bad chest, very bad chest and she was an invalid.

WD So you didn鈥檛 see much of him?
JC No he only came in at nights, at dinner times and tea times and then we got nothing after, you had to go to the YM for a cup of tea and a cake.

WD So she gave you breakfast and dinner what about lunch?
JC Well we had lunch as well they provided for that.

WD You didn鈥檛 eat with the troops?
JC No that鈥檚 right we had our tea and after tea well we were finished there was no supper you had to go to the YM for a cup of tea and a bun if you wanted one.

WD What would a typical day be like, what time were you woken up by the whistle, roughly?
JC Well it was dark weather well as you can judge now, its dark weather half past seven I would say seven o鈥檆lock, its dark at eight o鈥檆lock really, I would say seven o鈥檆lock at least.

WD Seven in the morning. So when you had this whistle you went to this parade, what way did you go to this parade?
JC Only to go outside and line up in this street, I line up in the street, it sounds a bit idle doesn鈥檛 it. I wouldn鈥檛 have cared if it had snowed.

WD So after you lined up in the street, then you would go and get breakfast.

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