These messages were added to this story by site members between June 2003 and January 2006. It is no longer possible to leave messages here. Find out more about the site contributors.
Message 1 - Pigeon hole message
Posted on: 27 May 2005 by ritsonvaljos
Hi Tom,
I've posted some information for you in your 'Pigeon hole' about the plane crash you saw. I hope this is helpful to you.
听
Message 2 - Pigeon hole message
Posted on: 30 May 2005 by tom_coyne
To ritsonvaljos
Hi I have not been able to retrieve your message as I lost my details, and I have renewed my membership.
Regards, tom_coyne
听
Message 3 - Pigeon hole message
Posted on: 31 May 2005 by tom_coyne
ritsonvaljos
Many thanks for your last email, plus the information relating to the wartime incident.
It is strange how something like that stays with you all of your life.
Reading the three other contributions, one was talking about the air-raid shelters up at St Mary's RC Church. The shelter we had in Ennerdale Terrace was a steel table in the front room.
It will most likely be July when I come to Whitehaven, as I have a full calender for June. The Chase will have a room as I know the one in town near the raiilway station you have to book well ahead.
Regards, Tom Coyne
听
Message 4 - Pigeon hole message
Posted on: 11 June 2005 by ritsonvaljos
Hello again Tom,
Some further information for you about the Allied plane crash you saw on 14 October 1943.
I was visiting the Cumbria Archives Office, Scotch Street, Whitehaven and decided to look at 'The Whitehaven News' back copies of October 1943 to see what it had reported about the plane crash. There was absolutely nothing mentioned about it! I found this very strange given that everyone in the town must have known it happened.
I did find a report in the edition of Thursday 21 October about the visit of Flt Liet David M. Crook DFC to the town and his presentation of Whitehaven's "Wings" for raising money to pay for aircraft production. I know this RAF officer visited the crash site with the editor of 'The Whitehaven News' on the day it took place. I assume there must have been some censorship (voluntary or compulsory) that a report about the plane crash was not to be printed at the time.
Nevertheless, there was a local history book in the Archives Office that does mention the plane crash. It is entitled 'West Cumberland at War' by Jeff Wilson (1999), ISBN 0 9534645 04. If you do come across this book look at pages 63 and 64 for the plane crash. Mr Wilson may have more details in his research notes. My guess is that the plane crash was reported in the local press, but perhaps a long time afterwards. While I am not personally acquainted with Mr Wilson, he has written an excellent book.
Sorry I didn't get any better information via this route. It just shows what censorship was like in the war. Anyway, good luck with your own research.
Bi
听
Message 5 - Pigeon hole message
Posted on: 15 June 2005 by tom_coyne
To ritsonvaljos.
Many thanks for your last email. I took your advice and went down to my local library.
They did not have a copy of West Cumberland At War by Jeff Wilson, they traced the only copy there is to West Cumbria.
The librarian said with a bit of luck they may let us borrow it, but sadly when it is archived there is not much chance.
However my thanks to you again for your help.
Kind regards
Tom
听
Message 6 - Pigeon hole message
Posted on: 27 June 2005 by ritsonvaljos
Hello Tom,
An update about your query. I was at the Whitehaven Maritime Festival last weekend, which also doubled as the official Cumbria county 60th Anniversary 'Victory Parade' for WW2. I went into what is known as 'The Beacon' and found they still have copies on sale of the 'West Cumberland at War' book previously discussed.
After speaking to Mr Wilson (author of the book) he told me that, as I suspected, references about the plane crash you witnessed were supressed at the time. However, he says there are original sources about the event that should be accessible either in the local Archives Office, local library or other archives.
The manager of 'The Whitehaven News' who went to the crash site a little after you (Mr J.R. Williams) wrote a book some years later on about his life in journalism. This plane crash is mentioned in that. Someone else has catalogued details of wartime plane crashes in a book called 'Air Crashes in Cumbria' (I don't know the author's name I'm afraid). Another gentleman called Mr G. Rothery has researched air crashes in Cumbria and these documnets are probably in one of the Cumbrian archives.
If you are visiting West Cumbria in the near future, I hope this gives you a start. At least you may be able to ask the right question at the Archives Office of local library. Ennerdale Terrace, where you used to live, is still there but the houses will have had some modernisation done since the time you remember. The plane crash site you should be able to identify and there are a lot of people around who say they remember it when I've asked them.
Good luck again and best wishes,
JR
听
Message 7 - Pigeon hole message
Posted on: 28 June 2005 by tom_coyne
ritsonvaljos
Many thanks for your update on the American Bomber.
I would not be surprised to see it all fall into place some day.
Best regards,
Tom
听
Message 8 - Pigeon hole message
Posted on: 09 July 2005 by ritsonvaljos
Hello Tom,
Hope things are going well for you.
Just to let you know I've written up the notes I've been making about the Plane Crash you witnessed.
This is the link to the story:
A4411388
Hopefully it puts a lot more into place. Some of the details are still restricted, or perhaps they are obtainable at the National Archives in Kew. That's too far for me to travel. It's hard going hunting in Archives Offices as well!
Anyway, if you do ever make it across to Cumbria again you should be able to find the original documents in the Archives Office from the information I've given in the article.
Good luck!
听
Message 9 - Pigeon hole message
Posted on: 10 July 2005 by tom_coyne
ritsonvaljos
You have certainly researched this story very well. You will have put a lot of minds at rest when they realise how the story fits into place.
What I witnessed in 1943 is unbelievable to realise the story behind the crash. What has emerged about the crew their origins ages etc,it is really heartwarming.
I am confident that the scriptwriters could really make something of this story which occurred in Cumberland during WW2.
tom_coyne
听
Message 10 - Pigeon hole message
Posted on: 10 July 2005 by ritsonvaljos
Hello Tom,
Thanks for the comments!
Hopefully, the account I've written is of some interest to those like your good self who witnessed the crash. It may also be of interest to relatives of the fellows who died if any of them ever search the site.
It's odd really that I must have passed by the crash site thousands of times and rarely given a second though about there actually being a crash.
One time when my granddad was alive we walked into town that way and he talked about it. Occasionally, someone might mention it briefly in a conversation. A lot of what was passed on by word of mouth has proven to be correct.
I'm sure it must have been talked about a lot in the Kells / Seacliffe / Woodhouse area at least (where my mother's family lived at the time). When I've asked people about it, nearly everyone round here has had the idea the fellows who died were Canadians. I think the family you lived with must have been told they were Americans. Of course, it now turns out 3 of the lads were British, 1 Canadian and 1 American.
If the other photos I've taken of the area come out OK, I'll pass them on to you.
I've watched a little of the VE / VJ Day commemorations on the TV today. It will soon be the 'last round up' for commemorations I suppose!
Best wishes to you
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