大象传媒

WD Did you, what about gas, any gas precautions?
JC Yes we had gas masks but we hadn鈥檛 these has masks it was a lump of blanket with two goggles in and we used to call it a bap in your mouth. You sucked in and when you blew out you blew through this, we had that on and then had to dipped in disinfectant, that was stinking stuff and then wrung out and then given to you carried in a case that was supposed to be waterproof, pull it out and put it on, oh! That was nasty stuff, nasty stuff.

WD Did you have to go through a gas chamber?
JC Oh yes we went through a gas chamber, we pretty well touched everything.

WD Did you do any special training yourself I mean in machine gun or signalling or anything like that?
JC What I did was SOS, scouting, observing and sniping yes I wore a green badge, I was given two stripes.

WD And you did that at Codford, at Codford you practiced that. What was that then SOS, can you tell us about the training for that I鈥檝e not heard of that before?
JC I was sent to another school then to be trained for this.

WD Where was this special training school?
JC It was not far from Codford, just outside Codford, only a small place and we were on map reading. I had to map read and different things out of the ordinary and we used to rail and be able to direct and instruct anybody to go wherever they wanted to go and we would trace it on the map and say you will do such a thing and you will go somewhere and you鈥檒l turn and follow the bearings.

WD So what about the sniping, you practiced sniping?
JC Yes I practiced sniping, that鈥檚 where my good shooting came in.

WD How did you practice that?
JC When we were in the trenches they would instruct us to go out and make a place out there and watch him and pick him off when you saw him coming.

WD Hang on, I鈥檒l be coming to that, but did you practice that at this school outside Codford, did they actually train you in it?
JC Oh yes I practiced this and then we went to a village and we were outside a village they would miss a brick out in the wall and we used to go upstairs and look through these and watch him, you could see him in the distance and get ready and pick him off.

WD I鈥檒l come to your sniping. You were training at Codford, then you did your advance training, then you did this SOS training and you were made a corporal were you?
JC Yes I was a corporal.

WD Did you go out to France from Codford?
JC No, hey where did I go from? I鈥檓 blowed if I know.

WD Was there another training camp you went to after Codford or did you go straight, because you said you went to the Eleventh?
JC I went to Accrington Pals the Eleventh, yes I鈥檓 trying to think, where did I go to France from the first time? I went twice to France?

WD Do you remember what month it was when you first went out to France or roughly what time of the year?
JC No, no.

WD Was it before Christmas 1916 or after Christmas 16?
JC Just a minute, on the 7th June 1917 there was the Messines Ridge, that鈥檚 right, it鈥檚 coming now that鈥檚 better.

WD Was that when you were sent out?
JC I鈥檇 been out a few months in 1917 up to this June 7th I鈥檇 been out a few months with the Eleventh Battalion.

WD So you had gone out in early 1917?
JC That鈥檚 right early in 1917

WD So when you went out do you remember anything about the crossing?
JC Yes I remember the crossing, nothing outstanding just an ordinary thing.

WD And then what happened?
JC We were sent to the 19th Division a Butterfly Division. I said 鈥淲hy Butterfly?鈥� Well they said 鈥淚t鈥檚 always flitting about it never stops anywhere long.鈥� We were sent on different fronts because it was a Butterfly Division.

WD Where were the Eleventh when you joined them?
JC It鈥檚 getting hard now! You mean what part in France, you mean what front? We were facing up to as I come back to the Messines Ridge. He was on a big high ridge and he looked down on us and whatever went on he could watch whatever was were doing. If the ration party was coming on he鈥檇 blow it out, whatever was going on he blew it out, so the authorities said 鈥淲ell we can鈥檛 walk up the hill to him what we will have to do is tunnel underneath him, they tunnelled underneath him. They put an order out 鈥淒oes anybody know anything about mining or have they experienced any mining.鈥� So they got a few results, a few lads volunteered and they went to be colliers and they dug underneath him on the Messines Ridge. It took about a month or so however, they took it underneath and then it was ready and on the 7th June they had packed that with explosives and we went up, we were about, I would say a quarter of a mile away waiting for it to go up and then we were to go then we were going to go to be in the middle of it if we weren鈥檛 careful so on the 7th June at half past three in the morning a scorching how day it was this went up. We were in the trench and it just went like this (WD- Rocking from side to side?) blowing up just like that, terrific.

WD Could you hear the noise, what was the noise like?
JC Yes it was terrific you were going into Hell he said we are going into Hell, nay we鈥檙e not, yea we are, what a mess. Well it eventually stopped so after, there was certain period, I don鈥檛 know how long it was while we let it settle down and then we were off, over. So over we go and this broken territory, what a mess! What a mess!

WD What do you remember about it, do you remember it in any detail?
JC Yes I remember it well.

WD Could you tell us about then?
JC I鈥檓 walking along with my bayonet, full marching order and a box of bombs, an extra bandoleer of bombs around your chest and we are walking on and in the distance, we never thought we would see anybody, in the distance, cordite was stinking, in the distance I could see one fellow, he must have been a German, and we shouted of him to come back, whether he heard us or not but he wouldn鈥檛 do, come back! Come back be a prisoner but he wouldn鈥檛 he kept on running. So we could see we couldn鈥檛 overtake him so what we did, well what I did, I stopped and I had one in the breech ready and I took aim and I stood still for a minute and let him have it. Oh! I hit him lovely; he dropped just like that just! (At this point there is a long pause and Mr. Clarkson can he heard becoming very emotional until he continues in a still very emotional state) well I鈥檓 looking at my rifle like that when there was a shell burst very very close and all at once I get hit here鈥�

WD Your left shoulder
JC My left shoulder I didn鈥檛 know where so oh! I said I鈥檓 hit and nobody heard me they went on and left me, well I dropped my rifle threw it down oh! And I staggered I staggered but where am I hit I didn鈥檛 know. So I undid my belt and took my epaulets off and got out, left my stuff there and I slid down this hole that has been made by these shells, slid down and I was laying about 45 degrees then. I was gradually going worse I couldn鈥檛 breathe so I thought what am I going to do but where am I hit, I didn鈥檛 know where am I hit. So after a long time I鈥檓 laid there and it was scorching oh my tongue was way out just then two stretcher bearers came along so they said 鈥淗ello we haven鈥檛 to take nobody back as is too far gone, we have to leave them and carry on to them as is more able鈥� So I said 鈥淚鈥檓 alright, I鈥檓 alright鈥� I couldn鈥檛 talk I had to tell them as best way as I could 鈥淚鈥檓 alright.鈥� They have a meeting and they said, 鈥淎lright, we will take you back then鈥� so I was fortunate. So they took me back put me on a jinni road a little jinni road that they had and they out the stretcher on and let it go back and they carried on again. So they took me then to a clearing station, CCS Canadian Clearing Station. This clearing station they looked at you, like a first aid dressing placer that鈥檚 all. Look at you and said 鈥渨e can鈥檛 do nothing with him he鈥檒l have to go back, take him back, anywhere Rouen, either Rouen or Etretat take him back.鈥� So I was bundled back and then I gets to this hospital, it were a proper hospital then and they had to find out where I was hit. Well blood, this sounds a bit bloody, blood had seeped straight down to my shoes, in my hoes, blood everywhere I hadn鈥檛 a drop of blood I don鈥檛 think I had a drop of blood. They had to cut everything off, shoes everything off, strip me naked, what a mess! Dear! Dear! Dear! (Here again Mr. Clarkson became very emotional) terrific! So they said 鈥渨e鈥檒l have to do the best we can to find out.鈥� Well they looked they said 鈥淥h you been hit in your shoulder blade, the bone has turned it down it has gone through your lung and come out at your back.鈥� 鈥淣o鈥� I said 鈥渋t鈥檚 not come out because I can feel something there.鈥� 鈥淲ell we鈥檒l have a look we鈥檒l turn you over鈥� and true enough they turned me over and at the bottom of my back just a black dot, just a black dot (again Mr. Clarkson became very emotional). Well he just nicked that and he put one of those enamel kidney things in that they can press to you and pulled it out and it dropped out and it tinkled (again a pause and emotion) terrific dear, dear. (Very quietly) 鈥淚鈥檝e never told this tale.鈥� He said 鈥淚鈥檒l have to operate.鈥� Well they operate I was better but it weren鈥檛 right no, my lung kept filling up, there was black blood, where it were coming from I don鈥檛 know, just like treacle, nasty stuff. So they said 鈥渢he only thing is we will have to put an aperture into your back to drain it off bottom of your lung as your making it you鈥檙e draining it off.鈥� Well they had to have another operation then. You have ribs at your back, cut a rib and fit a tube into your lung; mind you it鈥檚 1918 you see there was no blood infusions then you had to make your own blood. So he put this into me and every morning it had to taken out and washed out and if they thought it was draining cut a little bit off and put it back again. So they said 鈥渢hat鈥檚 that only think we can do now for you, we can鈥檛 do no more, but you鈥檙e no good here you are in the way here now we鈥檒l have to send you back.鈥� So of course I got back, back to England. Well I was sent to Bury St. Edmunds, that鈥檚 right in Suffolk I think. I鈥檝e never been to that place, I鈥檝e never been yet to it, however it鈥檚 an ordinary hospital, just a General hospital and they sent for my mother and my sister to come down to me. So they came down (again Mr. Clarkson became very emotional) however they stopped for about a week and eventually they went back. So I was improving a little bit, a little bit, I got up then knocking about but I couldn鈥檛 bear, I had to have this still in my back, I had to be very careful, I couldn鈥檛 pretend to lie on my left side always on my right. So it got better and better and they said 鈥渇rom here we can send you to another place now where you can be more convalescent.鈥� So I got sent to Newmarket, Tate and Lyles Racing Break at Newmarket and they had a separate place where they used to go when there was racing on, they had parties there when there was racing, of course the war stopped all that, so it was turned into a hospital. I was at Severals House for five or six months and I had another operation it wasn鈥檛 draining as it should be, so I had to have this other operation. What they did I don鈥檛 know, but anyhow I felt better after it. So when I鈥檓 16,17,18 of course you are not developed properly and I was doing extraordinary well so they kept saying 鈥測ou鈥檙e getting over this very well aren鈥檛 you鈥� and I said 鈥淚鈥檓 getting better now I鈥檒l soon be shut of this lot now.鈥� So they nipped and nipped and kept cutting a little bit off and then I got as I could do without it and I let it heal up so they said 鈥測ou鈥檒l have to very careful now, your flesh will grow into that and fill it up and you鈥檒l not know you鈥檝e had it done.鈥� I used to show my wide I said 鈥淟ook there鈥� however I still got this here, I鈥檇 show if I didn鈥檛 have a collar on and it splintered the collarbone and turned it down well he had to pick lumps of this collarbone it shattered the bone anyway it got done. So now it鈥檚 very good the only think now if I get a cold it flies there.

WD So you only went out to the front the once and then you were wounded?
JC I was wounded yes I had about four months and then I was wounded. From there I left Severals House and they said, 鈥淵ou鈥檙e fit now you鈥檙e getting fit but you will never do anymore soldiering. So go on a fortnight鈥檚 leave, your hospital leave and then report to Colwyn Bay, no not Colwyn Bay, Redcar go to Redcar in Yorkshire and report there and they鈥檒l see what they can do with you.鈥� So of course I had a fortnight at home just before Christmas in 1917 and I was back in Redcar.

WD So you had been in hospital about six months?
JC Six months yes

WD You had gone to Redcar, now who were you joining at Redcar?
JC I was joining a feeding battalion but when I passed out at Redcar to go to France again second time I was taken to the Second East Lancs. Eight Division Second East Lancs.

WD When you went to Redcar you had been told you wouldn鈥檛 do anymore soldiering?
JC Yes I鈥檇 been told I wouldn鈥檛 do any more soldiering, well I鈥檒l give you an instance when that was changed. I got to Redcar I reported at the office there and they said 鈥淲ell go to a billet.鈥� In Redcar it鈥檚 like Blackpool all lodging houses at the front I鈥檝e been evacuated, with being sitting in the North Sea very dangerous there in the North Sea straight opposite Germany, they said it鈥檚 straight opposite Germany, no civilians lived in these houses they out them in for billets everything was stripped off only the boarded floor, nothing else. So there were so many in a room so they said 鈥済o to number so and so promenade, take your bed from here your blanket or your sheet take your bed and go to this number so and so on the promenade.鈥� I went to this promenade and I knocked at the door, there were a few in, I asked if there was any room and they pointed some out. So I settled down and looked round and asked what they were doing. They were cleaning their buttons and their shoes I said 鈥渨hat are you doing that for?鈥� 鈥淲ell we have to do.鈥� I said 鈥測ou shouldn鈥檛 have to do that, they are putting us here away from everybody and you have to do this.鈥� 鈥淵ou鈥檒l see in the morning when he comes and he鈥檚 a big bully and he鈥檚 this and the other.鈥� I said 鈥渋s he, well him and me are going to have a row that鈥檚 all.鈥� So true enough, went to bed and fell asleep, fast asleep and it was still dark when he came, throws door open bang, bang clapping his hands 鈥渃ome on, come on, kicking that board that goes round 鈥渃ome one, come on get up.鈥� I said 鈥渉ey no not me, look,鈥� I said 鈥淚鈥檓 not getting up for you.鈥� He said, 鈥淵ou鈥檙e not!鈥� If you鈥檙e not out of that bed I鈥檒l dump you out.鈥� He was going through the door and my shoes were down here and I picked my shoe up and threw it at him I hit the door, I missed him I hit the door. 鈥淲ho threw that?鈥� I said, 鈥淚 threw that.鈥� 鈥淒o you know what you鈥檝e done?鈥� I said, 鈥淚 know what I haven鈥檛 done, I haven鈥檛 hit you which I should have done.鈥� 鈥淪o alright I鈥檒l report you, I鈥檒l fix you up.鈥� I said 鈥渨ill you, get me fixed up then I can鈥檛 do this cleaning buttons its ridiculous.鈥� So of course I鈥檓 due to Company Bunk, Company Officer and he looks he says 鈥淒o you think because you鈥檝e been to France you can do what you like.鈥� I said 鈥淚 don鈥檛 think that at all but I know I don鈥檛 need to do that what he wants to do, cleaning.鈥� 鈥淲ell鈥� he said, 鈥淲e鈥檝e got to have a certain amount of order.鈥� 鈥淥rder my foot,鈥� I said oh I rhymed of at him. 鈥淵ou know you鈥檙e getting a difficult fellow,鈥� he said. I replied 鈥淚鈥檓 not that difficult, its common sense.鈥� So he said 鈥渓ook if you don鈥檛 want to go you don鈥檛 have to do it.鈥� So I said 鈥渨ell what about these lads?鈥� 鈥淲ell鈥� he said, 鈥渢hey are different.鈥� I said 鈥渢hey are no different than me I鈥檝e been where they haven鈥檛 been maybe but beyond that they are lads just like I am,鈥� they were same age group I would normally be called up with them had I been in a civvy. So I get seven days notice seven days CB (confined to barracks) again. So of course I do and am not able to go out at night but it was pitch dark then you formed about it was shocking because they daren鈥檛 have a light on there. So my time went on there and then it came one day and it said we are picking a draft, there鈥檚 one for Egypt and one for France, and you are down for Egypt. I said 鈥淎lright I鈥檒l get you exchanged and they鈥檒l jump at the chance to change you.鈥� So he picked somebody to take my place in Egypt and I went to France, so I got back to France.

WD Hang on, why didn鈥檛 you want to go to Egypt, what didn鈥檛 you like about that?
JC I didn鈥檛 want to go to Egypt; I didn鈥檛 want to get fried up.

WD You didn鈥檛 like the heat, weren鈥檛 you scared about going back to France?
JC Oh no, no, as I said I feared nothing when I was well, I didn鈥檛.

WD What about your wound had it healed up properly?
JC Yes it had healed fine and I gave it every encouragement to heal up I didn鈥檛 trail in. So eventually I got back and I was drafted to the Second East Lancs. Eight Division right on the front, they were a Line Battalion; they were soldiers, real soldiers.

WD About what month was that?
JC I honestly couldn鈥檛 tell you.

WD Was it into 1918?
JC Well it would have to be, it would have to be, wouldn鈥檛 it? Yes the last year of the war and we were in mobs that we would have to fight our way out, we were being driven back and then it came 鈥渘obody must retreat you haven鈥檛 got to retreat.鈥�

WD That was March 1918, was that when you joined them just during the German attack?
JC No, it was before then, I wasn鈥檛 long when I left Saltburn, I wasn鈥檛 long, was it Saltburn?

WD Redcar, you said Redcar.
JC Redcar yes. It wasn鈥檛 long before I was there, it would be early in 1918. This is messing you up isn鈥檛 it bit I can鈥檛 help it.

WD You鈥檙e doing fine; it鈥檚 a long time ago, 70 odd years ago. Do you remember any of what you were doing in trenches in 1918?
JC Well of course it was slow moving up to March, up to April really, he drove us back and then we made this stand and we said nobody will retreat now.

WD Do you remember anything about the retreat before you got that order, could you tell us about it?
JC We got to Amiens and we had the civvies to evacuate, we used to wheel a truck and get the civvies they had to flit their stuff out so the troops could come in. We held Amiens and then form Amiens we marched on and we went every day more and more catching him, but we could never get hold of him. He used to go the night before or the afternoon before and we never for him we never for in contact with him. He was on the retreat and we were on the go until we got to Little Mons, not Big Mons, Little Mons, where the War first started Mons, well we got to Little Mons just before that and then the Armistice came. We were absolutely tired we could never catch up to him; however we got one night in Little Mons.

WD Hang on, before you go on, do you remember anything about fighting? Any stories that you could tell us to show us what it was like.
JC No, I don鈥檛 think so as I said you could never get hold of him.

WD You said you were a sniper can you tell me something about that?
JC We couldn鈥檛 get to snipe them, they had gone we couldn鈥檛 catch them, I finished with it then.

WD When did you do your sniping then, could you just tell me what you did as a sniper what you actually did, how would you go about it?
JC I waited till he would bob-up, just come up; spot his tin hat, but I could never get him.

WD Where would you hide?
JC I was in anywhere in an outhouse or anywhere like that I could get some cover.

WD Weren鈥檛 you worried, wasn鈥檛 it very risky in trying to snipe, that you would be sniped yourself wasn鈥檛 that a risk you took?
JC Well I was in charge of snipers really.

WD You can鈥檛 remember much about it?
JC No, I鈥檝e forgotten those are the little things; you took them with a pinch of salt.

WD So you don鈥檛 remember much more about your service on the Western Front?
JC No not really, o yes a little tale end here. When the war come to be finished the Second Battalion, a Line Battalion every one all old time servers they sent out all them that had been signed on for the duration of the war, I was one too and they said 鈥淗ow about joining up, having a five year spell?鈥� I said 鈥淔ive years, I wouldn鈥檛 have five minutes here.鈥� So they said, 鈥淚鈥檒l tell you what, try and see what they say at home.鈥� So I wrote home and they said 鈥渃otton trades doing nothing, I wouldn鈥檛 be in too much of a hurry to get home, you are doing alright there I would stop if I were you.鈥� So of course I stopped I took on for twelve months. Twelve months, well its better than nothing, well from then on we were sent to Ireland at Cork, we were sent to camp there, I鈥檝e forgotten the name it was a little village it was in Ireland and we were there for six months and then we moved to another place, I forgotten the name and then of course my time comes to be up, twelve months I said 鈥淚鈥檓 off, I鈥檓 off.鈥� 鈥淕et away, you鈥檙e silly you know.鈥� I said 鈥淚鈥檝e had it enough, I鈥檝e had enough, I鈥檝e had a good basin full, I don鈥檛 want no more.鈥� So I came out, I could claim my discharge I came out and I left it and I came home.

WD What didn鈥檛 you like about it, why had you had enough?
JC Well I鈥檇 enough really to be told, I鈥檓 very independent, I鈥檓 still independent now and I like to be independent and to think I can fend my own battles and do what I want and I thought I鈥檝e had enough, being told when to go to bed and when to get up in a morning and that I said I want a change, so that鈥檚 how I gained and I came home. So that鈥檚 the tale.

WD Did you find it easy to get a job again straight away?
JC Yes I was sent to, what鈥檚 that place? It鈥檚 a well know rail head place here we come back, oh and coming back it was very rough sailing across to Ireland and I lost my tin hat, my tin hat fell overboard and my tin hat is in the Irish Channel now, so I came home without a tin hat.

WD Did you go straight into the cotton trade again?
JC Eventually I did, yes I did but I didn鈥檛 stick it very long, no longer then I could help and I bought a place, I struck out then in business and left it there.

WD Thank you very much.

Mr. Clarkson a remarkable character died in a St. Helens Nursing Home at the age of 97, there were very few at his funeral, the beauty and the tragedy, he had outlived all his old comrades.

To that day in the top drawer of his bureau, wrapped in a piece of lint, was kept the German bullet that had so nearly ended his life eighty years previously.

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