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Unknown Desert Rats

by alymmlondon

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Contributed byÌý: alymmlondon
People in story:Ìý: Harold Reeves & Others
Location of story:Ìý: Unknown
Background to story:Ìý: Army
Article ID:Ìý: A4522682
Contributed on:Ìý: 22 July 2005

Unknown Desert Rats

My grandfather, Harold Reeves, joined the Army at age 17 in 1930.

He served with the Scotts Guards briefly, then with the Royal Fusiliers for several years, much of that time being spent in India.

During WW2, I know he was at both Dunkirk and D-Day and he was also in the Middle East and North Africa, but I don't know which Army division he was with at that stage of his Army career.

His Army service records don't show him leaving the Royal Fusiliers for another Army division at any point, but his service records appear to suggest that he cannot have been with the Fusiliers throughout WW2 (e.g. The Fusiliers were not at D-Day, yet he was).

I visited the Royal Fusiliers museum in London and, after looking at the service records, the archivist there advised me that he thinks my grandfather was transferred from the Fusiliers to another Army division in autumn 1939. Due to what appears to be a reference to â€˜Loyalsâ€™ on the service records, the archivist suggested to me he would think it most likely my grandfather was transferred to the Queens Lancashire Regiment in 1939. I am currently following that theory up.

This is the only photo I have of my grandfather during WW2. I wonder will it help me identify the division of the Army he was with in WW2 at all?

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Message 1 - Harold reeves

Posted on: 23 July 2005 by Trooper Tom Canning - WW2 Site Helper

Sir,

I am a bit astonished that an archivist at a military museum would offer the advice that your relative was transferred from the Fusiliers to another Division, when in fact IF there was any transferring to be done - it would have been to another Battalion or Regiment - certainly NOT a Division.
With the note that he served at Dunkirk as well as the Mid East and Alamein then hot footed it back to the U.K. in time for the D Day landings would suggest to me that any Battalion he was in might have been - ATTACHED - to either the 50th Northumbrian - or the reconstituted 51st Highland Divs - who were known to have been at those conflicts !My best guess would be the 50th Div.
If you have a picture of him - and his shoulder patch - then that would give you more clues as to his service with a Division - not necessarily his regiment !
Good luck in your quest
regards

Ìý

Message 2 - Harold Reeves

Posted on: 23 July 2005 by alymmlondon

Thank you for your reply Tom.

I note your comments about 'Division' vs. Battalion or Regiment. 'Division' is what I have written down as the military archivist having told me, but I could be mistaken. For those of us who do not understand the Army as well as you do, it is easy enough to confuse terms like 'Division', 'Battalion' and 'Regiment' I think!

When the ´óÏó´«Ã½ approve the photo I've submitted maybe someone will be able to comment further on the uniforms it features.

My grandfather's exact WW2 military history as per his records is as follows:

France B.E.F.: 5/10/39 - 31/5/40
Home: 1-6-40 - 25/5/42
Middle East: 26/5/42 - 9/9/43
North Africa: 10/9/43 - 5/1/44
Home: 6/1/44 - 3/6/44
North West Europe: 4/6/44 - 14/6/44
Wounded In Action
Home: 15/6/44 - 12/11/44
North West Europe: 13/11/44 - 7/12/44
Home: 8/12/44 - 18/5/45

Also, he got the War Medal 1939/45, the 1939-45 Star, the Africa Star & Clasp, the Italy Star, the France & Germany Star and the Defence Medal.

Ìý

Message 3 - Harold Reeves

Posted on: 23 July 2005 by Trooper Tom Canning - WW2 Site Helper

Dear Al,
I can well understand your difficulty in understanding the Army ways - we had the same trouble at times !
A most impressive history I might add as there is no question that he was in the thick of it for a long time.
Just one little thing with his record - which could be put down to very sloppy clerkmanship - which abounded throughout - and that is the entry 9/9/43 stating North Africa - in fact was the day of the Salerno- Italy Invasion force - from that point is should read CMF - Central Mediterranian Force as oppesed to BNAF ! Just a small point but relative inasmuch as both 50th and 51st Divisions took part in the Sicily Battles from 10/7/43, whereas their armoured division - the 7th desert rats - took part in the Salerno Landings until early in the new year when they left Italy for the U.K. and the D day landings - so you can see how these things can be whittled down.We can then assume from the pictures that your grandfather MIGHT be wearing a Jerboa ( desert rat) on his shoulder patch !
It'll be fun to find out !
The 50th - 51st and the 7th Armed formed - in the desert and through to near Tunis - the famous 30th Corps led by Lt.Gen Oliver lesse and they did a great job in the forefront of 8th Army.On finally reachin Tunis they were spilt up as both Infantry Divs were sent to Sicily where they didn't need tanks (!) So 7th Armed was allocated Tank Div for 10th Corps with 46th and 56th Inf Divs.under Lt.Gen. McCreery in the US led 5th Army which took a helluva beating
but were saved by the Intervention of Gen Alexander. The 7th Armed then proceeded to Naples and then had a rest until it was time to return to the U.K. The three original 30th desert types never again fought to-gether as a new 30th Corps sprung up with Brian Horrocks in command who had been badly wounded at Bizerta after leading the final charge to clear all Africa of the Africa Corps
at Cap Bon - all fascinating stuff really and your Grandfather was in the thick of this history for the longest time until he was wounded - obviously near Caen !
Good luck

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