大象传媒

Message 2 - Dad as a conchie

Posted on: 01 January 2005 by Trooper Tom Canning - WW2 Site Helper

Dear Audrey -
to say that I am astonished would be the typical British understatement..as in the midst of Britain's darkest hour... this man " was being true to himself" ??? First off he was a fascist, then when finally called upon to redeem himself - he became a consientious objector- ??? Sitting out the rest of the war and meeting interesting people ???

Many of us met equally interesting people...for example the First German Parachute Division - just think 15,000 of them, all very interesting - the pride of Germany at that time, then of course the 26th Panzer Division another 12,000 of them - tremendously interesting chaps!Then there was the 29th Panzer Grenadiers - mind you they had been cut down to only 8000 by the time I met up with them, so the interest flagged a bit - Again many of us have the memorabilia of those interesting meetings... like being very careful when we sit down on a hard chair, not walking too well, or picking up our Grandchildren !

This guy Wurst ? - he must be very proud of his Dad, to keep on writing about him or is it some great weird fiction ? This series was - I understand - to show how we all lived under the various pressures of War, not to read this guy's BS - if he were to move into Cattle country - he could become the biggest Bullshipper in the West ! .. and he could do his wurst ?

Message 3 - Dad as a conchie

Posted on: 01 January 2005 by Karl Wust

I am aware that some of this stuff would upset people of your generation. I merely wish to record facts as I recall them as I understand this to be the point of the exercise.

Incidentally, I am now writing out of Canada.

Message 4 - Dad as a conchie

Posted on: 01 January 2005 by Trooper Tom Canning - WW2 Site Helper

........ as I recall .. it was Pope Pius X11 - in June of 1944 on meeting the new Canadian Ambassador,
inadvertently exclaimed - "Oh Canada.. she has much to suffer" ....seems he got that right !

Message 5 - Dad as a conchie

Posted on: 02 January 2005 by Frank Mee Researcher 241911

Hello Karl,
I honestly dont think you are aware of the hornets nest you are digging up.
To start, your third birthday was in 1939 which would make you nine at the end of the war. My own grandson is three and a half and at times I think he was born with a University education but and it is a big but He cannot possibly have understanding of the political situation as you claim to have had.
I was ten and a half when the war began, I lived in a politically aware household where everything was discussed and us kids allowed an input, strange in those days of "kids should be seen but not heard" I was lucky. To say even in this situation I had any idea of the political situation would definitely be stretching things.
I do remember my Father a very mild man in all ways raising his voice against Moseley and his Blackshirts, he wanted them put against a wall and shot, rather harsh you would say, not at that time.
War was about to start my parents and their family had gone through one war in which we lost many relatives. They knew we were not prepared for the coming war and they had heard all this "it will be over by christmas" stuff before, they said it would be long and hard and were proved right.
When the war started and I mean the real war not the phoney war of the first few months, we were inundated with stories of fifth column activity's in the low countries and France and even reports of Paratroops dressed as Nuns landing in England. It all sounds stupid now but you had to be there and feel the fear in the people as our troops were driven out of France. We expected invasion at any time so that fear enlarged by urban myth was very real.
All foriegn people in the country were summarily rounded up and caged. Hardly a hand was raised to stop that though there were some instances of outrage where families had lived in this area for a couple of generations.
Any one with leanings towards Germany or its system of government were labelled traiter by all the populace not just the government so anything done to them was popular with the general public.
In this time of suspicion, "Walls have ears" "Is your nieghbour a fifth columnist" and stories of people hanging washing on the line to signal German planes, I think the blackshirts were lucky not to be put against a wall.
The times were terrible even I knew that young as I was, the fear was palpable, you could touch it and those are the ogres you are raising Karl.
A German or Italian soldier telling his story on this site is Ok because they were patriots. Some one going against his country at that particular time were to us traitors and nothing less.
You may not like those thoughts Karl and they may sound archaic now but not at the start of a war where we looked like losing everything.
Frank.

Message 6 - Dad as a conchie

Posted on: 05 January 2005 by Karl Wust

Dear Audrey,

Thanks for your support and sorry about the abuse from some cro-magnon. I have just completed my story with a final episode, but I cannot believe it was that unconventional.

Be well.

Message 7 - Dad as a conchie

Posted on: 05 January 2005 by Karl Wust

Dear Frank,

I appreciate your comments but I think you underestimate what can go through a child's mind when a family is under stress.

A term I knew as as a 5 or 6 year old was Habeas Corpus--odd? I think family discussions must have been like yours, quite open and open enough that I had a political opinion at 7 or 8 biased though it might have been.

My old man was a ordinary man with a complicated character who fully participated in the class struggles of those days. Too late now to mull over that ground I think that the war with Germany had little to do with his resistance

Message 8 - Dad as a conchie

Posted on: 05 January 2005 by Trooper Tom Canning - WW2 Site Helper

not exactlyDear Karl - Audrey - Frank -

First time I have been called a cro magnon - neanderthal many times - but usually a good friend to many, with a solid grounding of patriotism and common sense to see where the right path is, and should be !

You do give me the impression of being well educated and well spoken etc, so I cannot understand why you would place yourself in a position to be reviled for lauding a man who was not the ideal citizen - in many minds of the times.

I note you now live in Canada, so if you are ever in the land of British Columbia, do drop in and we can have a chat about those past times, I'm sure that Frank would agree that is more than necessary !

best regards
tom canning
ps - do look up my autobiog.not exactly the Piltdown man of Teilhard de Chardin. eh ?

Message 9 - Dad as a conchie

Posted on: 05 January 2005 by Frank Mee Researcher 241911

Dear Karl,
I hate to see any discussion reduced to name calling, it adds nothing to the subject.
As a eight nine ten year old I knew some of the world problems. We went to the Cinema at least twice a week and saw the Pathe News or other news showing the Japs attacking China and also the war in Spain. I understood war but not the political situation even though Father and Mother took time to try and explain. I was also an avid reader of the morning and evening papers plus the Picture Post magazine delivered to the door. As the war looked imminent and people started to make preperation it did come home to me that there would be a war but to a lad of ten it was an exciting prospect. I did wonder why my mother cried a lot and gave me more cuddles than usual but thought it a woman thing. I still did not realise the fear the elders had about that war until much later when the bombing started.
My Dad told me of some men and women beaten up one Saturday at the Stockton Market for saying England should stop fighting Germany and join with them instead. I also heard of and old lady who was deaf as a post being dragged out of her house because she had her lights on and no black out curtains up. There was a latent fear in the older population that manifested itself in turning against anything or anyone who spoke out of turn and that included Communists or Mosley and his merry men.
When my father said they should be put against a wall and shot he was among others who thought the same and Mosely would have had short thrift if they had tried it up here. It was a dangerous time for anyone with different ideas.
In this day and age I would defend your fathers right to be anything he pleased, it is what the war was fought for. Whilst young men were out there giving thier lives it was not the time to tell them they were wasting their time or fighting for the wrong cause.
As I said before patriotism allows many things to be done to those who do not comply, I still feel those men were traitors and in my mind always will be. It was not the time or place to go against the trend in 1939-45.
I am told you have posted more so will turn to that in the hope it is less agravating to us people who remember.
Regards Frank.