大象传媒

听

听

THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT.听 BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE 大象传媒 CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY.

听

听

IN TOUCH - A Transport Special - Buses and Trains; Audio Cookbook

TX:听 30.03.2021听 2040-2100

听

PRESENTER:听 听听听听听听听 PETER WHITE

听

PRODUCER:听 听听听听听听听听听 SIMON HOBAN

听

听

White

Good evening.听 Tonight, the emphasis is on public transport and how it can be improved to serve the needs of visually impaired people.听 We鈥檙e on the buses鈥�

听

Clip

We鈥檝e had bus drivers zoom past us.听 If there鈥檚 somebody already on the bus with a guide dog we鈥檙e told that we really shouldn鈥檛 be allowed on the bus because there鈥檚 a dog policy of only one dog on a bus.

听

White

So, will these improvements stretch beyond a few big towns and cities?听 Things might be about to get better on the trains as well.听 Thousands of staff are receiving more education on how to give people with disabilities the help that鈥檚 really appropriate.听 And I鈥檒l be breaking eggs鈥�

听

Clip

[Eggs breaking]听 Oh god, you鈥檝e got half the shell in鈥�

听

鈥�got half the shell, I knew I would have.听 And egg all over me fingers.听

听

White

And still failing to make an omelette.听 But could a new audiobook help me?听

听

But first, we鈥檝e often reported on accessibility problems posed to blind bus users, where, for example, buses don鈥檛 have audio equipment to announce the next stop.听 We鈥檝e also mentioned good practice.听 But Department of Transport figures say that only one in five buses outside London have these kinds of provision.听 But last year the government announced 拢3 billion of new funding that they hoped would transform bus services.听 Now they鈥檝e published plans for how that money should be spent in a document called Bus Back Better.

听

Our reporter, Fern Lulham, has been looking at what the plans might mean for visually impaired bus users.听 Headlines Fern?

听

Lulham

Well, Peter, the document is certainly not short on ambition.听 It talks of supporting the introduction of no less than 4,000 shiny new environmentally friendly buses which will be accessible and inclusive by design.听 It talks, also, of making bus stops and bus stations more accessible and a review of fares for disabled people.听 It鈥檚 important to say, though, that most of the 拢3 billion that has been promised won鈥檛 be made available until April 2022.听 By then local transport authorities will be expected to have an enhanced partnership arrangement with their bus operator, whereby the two work together to improve services or to have begun the process to decide whether to implement franchising.

听

White

Now, of course, all these kinds of promises are all very well, is there any sign that the government intends to back these plans with legislation?

听

Lulham

Yes, there is.听 And that鈥檚 a bit of a change from my last bus report of just over a year ago when the legislation seemed less likely.听 Now, subject to what they call a final analysis, the government will make regulations for audible and visible route and next stop announcements on local bus services by summer 2022.听 They claim that this will ensure passengers can board any bus with confidence.

听

White

Now that鈥檚 a very big claim and I know you鈥檝e been speaking to people who, in one way or another, will be affected by these plans, so what have they been saying to you?

听

Lulham

Well, first, I spoke to Michelle Barnes Moss, who, like me, is a visually impaired bus user and I started by asking her what her current experience is like.

听

Moss

I rely on the buses heavily.听 Didn鈥檛 really use buses until my sight loss and that鈥檚 been about six, seven years now.听

听

Lulham

What are some of the issues that you find as a visually impaired person using the bus?

听

Moss

You have to wait for the bus driver to lower the bus, in some cases I don鈥檛 know if they鈥檙e not able to or they just don鈥檛 do it.听 So, then, getting off the bus, it鈥檚 almost like you have to take a leap of faith.听 And, as well, with regarding using your bus pass, some of the bus drivers will scan it for you, others will be like 鈥� put it there 鈥� and you鈥檙e like 鈥� I鈥檓 so sorry where鈥檚 there, I can鈥檛 see.听 And they鈥檒l just repeat themselves.听 I am unable to use my bus pass until 09.30 and if I need to get to a doctor鈥檚 appointment or a hospital appointment or college then, yeah, it makes it very, very tricky.

听

Lulham

What are some of the improvements that you think bus companies could make in the future to make buses more accessible to you?

听

Moss

On using the Brighton buses they鈥檙e fantastic because they have the talking system, it literally tells you each stop.听 And if we had that down here, I think I鈥檇 be more encouraged to go further afield.

听

Lulham

There鈥檚 been some talk of disability awareness training being given to bus drivers, do you think that would make a big difference to you?

听

Moss

A huge difference.听 Basically, we鈥檝e had bus drivers zoom past us.听 If there鈥檚 somebody already on the bus with a guide dog we鈥檙e told that we really shouldn鈥檛 be allowed on the bus because there鈥檚 a dog policy of only one dog on a bus.

听

Lulham

Michelle set out there the type of problems that many visually impaired bus users are facing, as well as the huge difference that the sort of changes envisaged by the government would make.听 These are the sort of changes that I saw already in place when I visited Brighton and Hove for a previous edition of In Touch and got to take a trip on a talking bus.

听

I am sitting on a bus in Brighton and for once in my life I鈥檓 not anxiously counting the bus stops and wondering when my stop is coming up and that鈥檚 all because of this lovely lady:

听

鈥淭he next stop is Brighton Station.鈥�

听

Having audio visual equipment which tells you where you are and when your stop is coming up, makes life so much easier when you鈥檙e visually impaired but this technology comes at a price 鈥� anywhere between 拢800 and 拢4,000 per bus, according to the Department for Transport.

听

鈥淭he next stop is North Street.听 Alight here for the Royal Pavilion, the Lanes and sea front and change here for buses to all parts of the city.听 Please remember to take all your belongings with you when you leave the bus.鈥�

听

Yep, that鈥檚 me.听 So, off I get.

听

Ah, happy days.听 But to get a better idea of how realistic it is to expect Brighton and Hove levels of services in all areas, I spoke to someone in the bus industry.听 Keith McNally is the Operations Director of the Confederation of Passenger Transport and I asked him why some areas already provide accessible services while others don鈥檛.

听

McNally

In terms of the equipment on board buses there鈥檚 never been a government specification of what is required.听 Whilst, I think, most operators are happy to try and improve accessibility, what they don鈥檛 want to do is invest in the wrong thing.听 We鈥檇 welcome publication of the outcome of the consultation, so everybody鈥檚 clear on what鈥檚 needed and then, I think, operators will be better able to provide accessibility, better accessibility, going forward.

听

I think the industry can react pretty quickly to ensure that new vehicles meet the specification.听 It is going to be more challenging to fit some of the older vehicles, so we just need to try and do things in a pragmatic way that helps everyone as best we can.

听

Lulham

That鈥檚 Keith McNally, the Operations Director of the Confederation of Passenger Transport.

听

White

Fern Lulham, thank you very much indeed.

听

And there are moves on the railways too.听 Train and station operators have until the end of the year to meet new standards set out by the regulator 鈥� the Office of Rail and Road.听 We can catch up on that now with David Kimble, he鈥檚 Senior Manager for Accessible Travel Policies with the regulator.

听

David, first of all, just remind us of the key points in the guidance that you鈥檝e recently published.

听

Kimble

Yes, of course.听 All new rail staff must receive disability awareness and equality training as part of their induction.听 And existing frontline staff, as well as those that work in context centres, have to have, what we call, refresher training to brush up on their skills in those areas.听 And that includes providing safe assistance, effective communication and learning to recognise if someone needs some help.听 And critically, we鈥檝e required, for the first time, that disabled people are involved in the development and delivery of this training.听 So, many companies are using disabled trainers, for example.

听

White

And have all train and station operators signed up to this?

听

Kimble

Yes, absolutely, so every single train and station operator has to have an accessible travel policy.听 So, they are all signed up to this and are all busy getting out there and delivering this.

听

White

Well, someone who鈥檚 been involved in delivering that training is Sarah Rennie.听 I mean, first of all, you鈥檙e disabled yourself, tell us about your own experience of using trains and how that informs the kind of training you鈥檝e been giving to station staff.

听

Rennie

I鈥檇 like to see a cultural shift in seeing disabled people rather than tasks as actually valuing our customer experience and you really feel it when people say things like 鈥� can you move your bags, I鈥檝e got a wheelchair coming on.听 I鈥檓 a customer, I鈥檓 not a wheelchair and it鈥檚 important for staff to understand the real positive difference they make when they say 鈥� off first, I want a quiet space and a cup of tea when things get a bit overwhelming and you鈥檙e waiting for accessible rail replacement.听 So, it鈥檚 bringing those stories into the room, to really help the staff think more about customer experience.

听

White

I mean one of the problems I have, as a visually impaired train traveller, is while a lot of the help is really quite good, sometimes, the idea is that they tell me how they鈥檙e going to help, rather than asking me how I鈥檇 actually like their help.听 I mean a classic example is I鈥檓 not very fond of smelly, slow lifts, I鈥檇 rather go up and down the stairs.听 I got told once 鈥� Oh well, we鈥檙e not allowed to do that, it鈥檚 too risky.听 Well, I know that鈥檚 not true.听 I mean is that something that you鈥檝e addressed 鈥� how people actually deliver the help?

听

Rennie

Definitely.听 And one of the most common pieces of feedback is staff realising not to make assumptions 鈥� that鈥檚 a very common thing we hear at the end of the sessions.听 So, you know, two customers may be visually impaired, one may need guiding and the other may just want confirmation of a platform or help using a ticket machine.听 We really strive to reassure staff that just saying 鈥� morning, anyone over here need a hand 鈥� it鈥檚 not in any way condescending, it鈥檚 just letting the customer know 鈥� I鈥檓 here, I鈥檓 open to help you and I鈥檒l be led by you.听 So, understanding that we do make a lot of assumptions.听 And also, I鈥檒l be honest, we unpick that health and safety response sometimes and really getting them to think about 鈥� where鈥檚 the risk, what are we trying to do and how do we best help this customer.

听

White

Sarah Rennie, thank you very much indeed.

听

Just quickly back to David Kimble.听 I understand you鈥檝e also been looking at the accessibility of websites for visually impaired people, as part of your work.听 Now that鈥檚 something which has come up a lot recently on this programme, that companies often don鈥檛, for example, seem to use visually impaired people themselves to test websites.听 What are you actually looking at there in particular?

听

Kimble

Yes, so there were two things that we looked at.听 The first of those was the content of the website to make sure that there were all the information people need about passenger assistance is there.听 And then the second thing, was making sure that the content of the website was compliant with the universal web accessibility standards.听 And we also have asked train and station operators to make sure that visually impaired people are able to use their websites and that they test that.听 And that is something that we鈥檙e also going to be looking at to ensure that visually impaired people are able to access every part of the website, we know that there are issues with things like flashing banners for instance, that鈥檚 something that people tell us, so we know that鈥檚 very important.

听

White

So, when should we see all these improvements?

听

Kimble

Again, so, we鈥檝e asked that the train and station operators do make sure that their websites are fully accessible by the end of the year.听 Although many of them are almost there already, so we should see all those improvements very quickly.

听

White

We鈥檒l ask our listeners to tell us if they鈥檝e noticed the difference.听 David Kimble, Sarah Rennie, thank you both very much indeed.

听

And we鈥檙e going to be delving further into that subject of websites in weeks to come.听 Do let us know your experience of using them, specific examples of problems are very welcome.听 Email us at intouch@bbc.co.uk.

听

Now long-time listeners may remember our series Can鈥檛 See Will Cook, which established, as if there was any doubt about it, that there were many very competent and imaginative blind cooks around.听 But thanks to our sister programme You and Yours we鈥檝e just heard about a new cookbook which though not specially designed for visually impaired people could give less experienced blind and partially sighted cooks a helping hand.听

听

This month Ruby Tandoh, food writer and former Bake-Off runner up, has launched her first audio cookbook.听 It鈥檚 a guide to baking for different cake recipes and the stated aim is to explain each step in the time it takes you to complete them as you listen.听 Well, blind cooks don鈥檛 come much more inexperienced and incompetent than me, so I thought I鈥檇 give it a try.听 So, join me in my kitchen.听 Here鈥檚 one I almost made earlier.

听

Now this should be ideal because trying to follow your recipe through a braille book could be a pretty hazardous business unless you want a lot of butter on your braille.听 Take it away Ruby:

听

Ruby Tandoh audio cookbook

In this chapter I鈥檓 going to introduce an easy butter cake.听 Similar to a Victoria sponge but with soured cream swirled into the batter to give it a more tender melting crumb and offsetting the sweetness.听 It takes an hour to make, of which only 10 minutes is actually spent measuring and mixing, so it鈥檚 about as much effort as a packet cake mix and about a hundred times more delicious.听

听

White

Right now, I鈥檝e cheated a little bit with the weighing here because I鈥檓 such a good blind cook, I haven鈥檛 even got a talking weighing machine.听 So, my lovely assistant has helped me a bit with the measuring.听 But I鈥檓 now going to pour and we鈥檝e got the butter in here and I鈥檓 just going to add the sugar into this big bowl, that Ruby told me to get.听 So, there it is, doesn鈥檛 make a very loud noise but it鈥檚 in there.听 And I have here a big wooden spoon.听 So, it鈥檚 all here and at the moment it鈥檚 all lumpy, we鈥檝e got great lumps of butter and sugar and I鈥檝e got to stir this now while Ruby keeps talking for about five minutes.

听

Ruby Tandoh audio cookbook

What you鈥檝e got to do now is combine and cream the butter and sugar mixture, beating it until fluffy.听 If you鈥檙e mixing by hand, as I do, you鈥檝e just got to be sure that you can hear me over the sound of your own ragged breath.

听

White

Have I got the stirring motion right yet?

听

Assistant

No.

听

White

Oh.听 I suddenly realised that Ruby鈥檚 quite right, it really does ache, I thought she was just whinging basically until I started to do it and it really does hurt you, you really have to whack it in.

听

Ruby Tandoh audio cookbook

Okay, stop.听 If you managed to beat the mixture that whole time, honestly, you鈥檝e got more perseverance than I鈥檝e had most of my life.听 The butter and sugar will be much more aerated, soft and creamy by now.听 Well done.听 So, now it鈥檚 time to add the eggs.

听

White

So, here we go.听 [Egg cracking]鈥�

听

Assistant

Oh god, you鈥檝e got half the shell in there.

听

White

I鈥檝e got half the shell, I knew I would have.听 And egg all over me fingers.听 I can just see the disapproving look on your face or hear it rather.听 Right.听 Do I need to go around the sides a bit more?

听

Assistant

Yeah.

听

White

Oh right, okay.听 Let鈥檚 do that.听 So, eggs are in, stirred.听 Pouring that in.听 That all seemed to go alright.

听

Assistant

Stir it gently.

听

White

I鈥檝e just been elbowed out of the way.

听

Right, I鈥檓 stirring gently.听 I think the problem is that my processes take so long that by the time that even when Ruby鈥檚 finished, I鈥檓 still only halfway there.听 And so that might be 鈥� but perhaps this is more ideal for really experienced cooks.

听

Ruby Tandoh audio cookback

I deliberately do a half-arsed job of scraping out the bowl and I tell myself there are just some bits of the batter the spatula can鈥檛 reach and that can only be got with greedy fingers and shovelled straight from finger to mouth.听 But raw flour and raw eggs can contain nasty germs, so, I wouldn鈥檛 recommend you do this, or would I?听 Look you鈥檙e your own boss, do what you want.

听

White

Okay.听 Sour cream is in and we鈥檝e done a bit more stirring.听 Do you think we dare taste this before we put it in the oven?

听

Assistant

Oh yes, I鈥檝e already tasted it.

听

White

Have you?听 Right, mmm, actually it tastes alright.

听

Assistant

It does, doesn鈥檛 it.

听

White

It tastes quite promising believe it or not.

听

Ruby Tandoh audio cookbook

It鈥檚 time to bake now.听 Carefully transfer the cake to the pre-heated oven on a middle shelf.听 Try not to open the oven door while it鈥檚 baking because the cake will be really fragile while it鈥檚 still rising and setting.听 It needs patience and privacy while it鈥檚 in the process of becoming itself.听 Don鈥檛 we all.

听

Assistant

Okay, here we are.听 I鈥檒l put the timer on.

听

White

Okay, 45 minutes and we鈥檒l know what this great White production is going to taste like.听 Ruby you can stop now.

听

Well against all the odds that cake was delicious.听 The audiobook is called Breaking Eggs and it costs 拢3.99 from Hodder Audio.听

听

And that鈥檚 it for today.听 You can email about anything that we鈥檝e mentioned and much else besides at intouch@bbc.co.uk.听 And there鈥檚 more information on our website:听 bbc.co.uk/intouch.听 And you can also download tonight鈥檚 and many previous editions from there.

听

From me, Peter White, producer Simon Hoban and studio managers Owain Williams and Jonathan Esp, goodbye.

听

听