Tuesday 30th September 2008
Here are the prospects for tonight's programme from our output editor Robert Morgan.
With Jeremy Paxman in London and Emily Maitlis at the Conservative Party conference in Birmingham.
Banking on a plan
"Today is a time for us to send a clear message to our political opponents and to our country - let us not allow the political wrangling that took place in America to happen here in our own country."
So said David Cameron in an emergency speech to Conservative party members this morning. The new fashion is for cross-party co-operation at this time of worldwide economic crisis. Within hours, Shadow Chancellor George Osborne had returned to London to discuss the crisis with Alistair Darling.
But what can they actually do, and are we at the mercy of events in Washington? The markets have rallied today but confidence is still at rock bottom. Paul Mason will explain why.
Meanwhile, in Birmingham Emily has been speaking to David Cameron about what cross-party co-operation can really achieve.
"A critical moment"
There's much regret in Washington over yesterday's defeat of the $700 billion bail-out plan. President Bush has warned that without a deal "the economic damage will be painful and lasting".
We hope to be asking a Republican Congresswoman who voted "No" what plan B she would accept. And we'll ask why bi-partisan co-operation failed so spectacularly last time.
States in decline
And how will America fare when the dust has settled? After more than a century of global financial dominance, are we witnessing the beginning of the end? We're assembling a stellar cast of experts to discuss America's role on the financial scene in the years to come.
And don't forget Place that Face - visit our website to rank all twelve post-war prime ministers in order of "greatness". The vote closes at noon tomorrow - we'll have the results in Wednesday's programme. Click to play.
Comment number 1.
At 30th Sep 2008, barriesingleton wrote:TRANSPARENT MONEY
Now that a lot of money has disappeared, will it adversely affect party funding from dodgy benefactors?
Might it even SPOIL PARTY GAMES?
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Comment number 2.
At 30th Sep 2008, phantomphiddler wrote:Mr Cameroon and his New caring sharing Conn-servative party need to apologize for the mess that Thatcherism plunged our country into. Rampant privatisation of most of our resources, together with the Free market economy, have caused ordinary people to think that they can profit from a serious gambling condition called the stock market. In casinos the only winner is the casino. In the stock market the only winners are the spotty spivs that trade with the lives of people without ever meeting them. Mrs Thatcher and her pal Ray-gun followed by Tory Blair and the Bushbaby have avoided any kind of social stratagy at the risk of upsetting the American right wing. The American fear of the 'Red Threat' is not nearly as frightening as the Red Neck Religious fundamentalists who seem to run the world.
Sean Appleby-Simpkin. Still socialist, still smug, never had much cash so, not as frightened as the bankers.
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Comment number 3.
At 30th Sep 2008, TonyGale39 wrote:Congratulations to the interview lighting guys in Birmingham. Emily has deepset eyes and in the usual studio setting are cast in shadow so nice to see her - and the others of course - well lit at last.
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Comment number 4.
At 30th Sep 2008, Neil Robertson wrote:I've just been watching Jon Snow's C4 interview with Brown ......... apparently
it is all everybody else's fault but his -
Britain's regulatory system he claims
is regarded as 'the best in the world';
we are leading - the US is following;
complete and utter state of denial?!
The Dumfermline Press poll may not
be scientific but most respondents
now seem to think the Glenrothes
byelection is a close two horse race
between SNP and Liberal Democrats.
大象传媒 Scotland reported tonight that
Alex Salmond was in seen Downing
Street today explaining the crisis to
these bloody plonkers ...................
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Comment number 5.
At 30th Sep 2008, Neil Robertson wrote:/blogs/thereporters/briantaylor/
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Comment number 6.
At 30th Sep 2008, Neil Robertson wrote:Interesting to look at how the Canadians are handling this - given that they never
went down the old "Anglo-Saxon" route
when they designed their banking policy.
They are a bit worried that the housing downturn in the States may impact on
lumber exports, but their banks are OK.
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Comment number 7.
At 30th Sep 2008, Neil Robertson wrote:Meanwhile, back in the real world, Dundee's
'Evening Telegraph' reports the front page
story that more than half of Dundee's kids
are living in poverty - and under a Labour
Government ........
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Comment number 8.
At 30th Sep 2008, Neil Robertson wrote:The front page story in tonight's Dundee
'Evening Telegraph' is that over half the
kids in this city are living in poverty under
a Labour Government. What about a bail
out for them, Gordon?
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Comment number 9.
At 30th Sep 2008, midnightPantsman wrote:Jeremy arrived at 22.30 pm, speaking tonight in total darkness -was that another clever studio directing trick ?
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Comment number 10.
At 30th Sep 2008, froggie1962 wrote:The banks can get in debt mainly through greed by a few people.
I can get in debt by one person, will the system write off my debt?
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Comment number 11.
At 30th Sep 2008, twinkleceliaw wrote:I think you are missing key analysis. at the moment you are only inviting people to talk who have been in and supporters of the capitalist system, they before this did not reallly actively oppose it or try to change it.
there are however people who have been working on alternatives for years. some are socialist in main, others call themselves a third way. please to liven the debate get some of them in. they have thought in depth about this before and will help move the discussion along.
a major example is the Global Justice Movement. but there are scores of academics and others in the UK who you can contact. I am willing to put you in touch with them if you would like.
For now, look at this website:
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Comment number 12.
At 1st Oct 2008, twinkleceliaw wrote:To add, the discussion about China style capitialism. It to me is just fortunate, it is 'capitalising' on this moment, that does not mean that it will be a sucessful model. that depends on what your parameters of success are. but in the neo-liberal (anglo-saxon model now in crisis) capital system just as many horror stories of human rights and justice was as rife and devastating as those people criticise China of. Before it was hidden, even now it is hidden. The IMF, World Bank and 'democracy' that was sold have alot to answer for and to remidy if I am to take them seriously and welcome a new form of capitalism back. the democracy they were promoting was to me more like dictatorship and ransom of countries and people who couldnt say no to their bad economic and political policies. Corporations not just the finacial sector need to be looked at as that is integral as to why we are in this mess. Everything is/was set up to benefit them and no-one else. Things which could help their people were written-off because it wouldnt meen a dependemcy on US/corprotation finance and products. Even the EU is part of this game, look at their trade agreements.
again, to get you up to speed on this movement which the media had labelled as 'anti-capitalist' (but often was just anti-neo-liberal) read this book or something simular:
'Anti-Capitalism: A beginners guide' by Tormey, S. 2004. Oneworld press.
even Louise Amoore, 'A Global Resistance Reader. 2005 Routledge.
This weekend there is a public lecture series that was planned way before all this happened, titled: 'Transforming the Global Economy: Solutions for a sustainable world. One of the talks being presented was "The Coming First World Debt Crisis by Ann Pettifor, and another titled "Another World is possible if ..." by Susan George.
The website is www. schumacher-north.co.uk
Another beginners guide is an introductory chapter in a degree level intro book to human geography: 'Introducing Human Geogrpahies' 2nd edition, edited by Cloke, Crang, Goodwin. 2005. chapter 42, pg 573 or other chapters on global finace, economics and globalisation.
JK Gibson-Graham, 1996, The End of Capitalism (As We Knew It): A Feminist Critique of Political Economy, Oxford UK and Cambridge USA: Blackwell Publishers,
'The end of nature: the end of capitalism or the end of the world?' Kovel, J. 2002. Zed Books
Special issue of the journal Antipode. June 2007. vol39, issue 3. 'Privatisation, Property, and the remakingof Nature-Society Relations.
the list goes on and on and on. all have different takes and opinions. but they are ideas and need to be considered to balance out discussion. shoot them down if you want, but give them a platform to at least debate.
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Comment number 13.
At 1st Oct 2008, Steve_London wrote:Evening All
I am glad to see this Labour Government finally act on increasing the bank depositors insurance, the Conservatives offered to help to do this before MP's went on their 8 week holidays. But it's better late than never !
If new banking regulations are needed (what I presume), does Gordon Brown(Labour) have the creditability to do it ?
The current crisis of the banks all happened under his previous (Hailed) new regulatory system ?
My personal view
---------------------
No wonder he needs the other (Conservative/Lib Dem/SNP) parties to give some credibility to this failing Governments actions !
He should call an election after this mess is bailed out by the tax payer, as he is a busted flush on economic issues !
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Comment number 14.
At 1st Oct 2008, kevseywevsey wrote:Tony @ 3: yeap, i noticed that too. Emily looking good under the lights. Talking of lights, Paxman did not blink or apologise for that blast-of-the-past..the 3 day week test -not a candle in sight - and Paxman not thrown one inch whilst opening up the show in near darkness. I've said this before on here but its worth repeating, Pax is the consummate pro act and that Knighthood can only be but just around the corner for his services to the jurno profession.
I am interested in this two day holiday that the "Law makers" in the US have to wait to pass before they can restart the process of saving the world from financial Armageddon. I do understand its a Jewish holiday but is it celebrated across the States or is it just confined to Washington and Wall street?..if you have the answer to this question.. can you let me Know...in about two days.
oh i just thought... is there a shut-down on Wall street as well for this holiday?... and does it really take two days to shift money from point A to point B whilst no one's looking?
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Comment number 15.
At 1st Oct 2008, brossen99 wrote:TEST
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Comment number 16.
At 1st Oct 2008, Mistress76uk wrote:Oh MidnightPantsman - it was for a fraction of a second! Get over it!
Brilliant Jeremy (love his new haircut) Tuesday night particularly with Prof Steiglitz and Irwin Stelzer on the state of the US economy. Oh and Paul's graphs rock :-)
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Comment number 17.
At 1st Oct 2008, Oldi wrote:1. It is not the sub prime lending that cause the financial crises: Look at the rate of failed mortgages 鈥 While it increased considerably, it is still not big enough to bring down the economy.
Banks does not lend to each other because there are no regulations in place to assure that the bank they are lending to will not do a 鈥淣orthern Rock鈥 on them again!
It is the government failure to urgently regulate the banks now that causes the crises.
2. For the public to gain confidence, the public need to see a decisive action. For example: The reason why you are standing in long queue in airport security is partly, of course, to catch the bad guys but it is also to show all the passengers that something is done to keep them safe and raise their confidence in the system.
The opposite has been done in the financial sector: The public is let to believe that while all the failing bank did not act cleverly; 鈥渢hose things could happened鈥. So the public rightly thinks that this could happen to any financial institution and will stay away from them.
3. The banking problem is far greater than the sub prime mortgages. If you will investigate how, for example a jet engine manufacturer sells their jet engines you will see that while they sell engine with a 鈥減rice tag鈥 of $8 million to airliner, when the airliner signs a lease for $8 million, they receive the engine AND $4 million IN CASH because the actual price of the new engine is $4 million only鈥. This is how airlines finance themselves and it is no different from financing your flat with 120% mortgage鈥. As there are no regulations, this practice is spread everywhere.
Why did it spread? Because look at the above sample: Airline is happy because they got $4 million lifeline finance that they will have to pay back in 10 years. Jet engine manufacturer is happy because they sold and engine and the sales person got a nice bonus for that. Leasing company of the jet engine manufacture is very happy because they have just signed a deal for $8 million leasing and the sales person will get a fat bonus for that鈥 The only group that are not happy are the public that their money was used to create this pyramid of hot air (selling something that worth $4 million for $8 million) and this is what happened now鈥
This practice wll have to stop to allow confidence. Only politicians can stop this.
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Comment number 18.
At 1st Oct 2008, barriesingleton wrote:A CIGARETTE AND A THINK (#17)
Politics is about power - there is no power without money.
Radio 5 is discussing new requirement for pictures of smoker-diseases on cigarette packets.
But cigarettes are a massive net income to government, so we can be sure they have looked into just how little impact the pictures will have on tax revenue. If government thought for a moment this move would end smoking, they would still be 'consulting'.
Politicians will never kill a good revenue stream, they would rather kill voters. The pictures are a pretence; part of the rearguard action that government has fought on behalf of tobacco for decades.
Don't lose sight of Thatcher and Clarke - both tobacco barons over many years.
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Comment number 19.
At 1st Oct 2008, bookhimdano wrote:So the republican says budget and tax cuts are the solution to an immediate credit problem? How long does she think, when banks tumble by the day, people can last with credit?
republicans who are retiring also voted against the plan. So it maybe some are hiding their true beliefs behind the fig leaf of politics?
When was democracy ever part of capitalism? Where is democracy in arkwrights mill? Democracy has been won in the face of oligarchs and capitalism. The monarchy role gamers only gave up absolute power when faced with cromwells cannon?
Did the victorian matchmakers protect the workers because it the right and good thing to do or because the match girls went on strike? The excesses of employers gave rise to unions not the other way round?
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Comment number 20.
At 1st Oct 2008, phantomphiddler wrote:I posted this on some other sites and hated to deprive you all.
Credit where credits due!
Twinkle Twinkle hedge fund Gelt
Rodent odours I have smelt
Spotty youths with flashy cars
Destroy our dreams with single 鈥榶ah鈥檚
Short selling鈥檚 selling us all short.
Perhaps some in depth moral thought
Would stop the rot and save the day
For normal folks with bills to pay
The politicians vacillate
The bankers hold their breath and wait
Whilst we poor punters in their hands
Hear the death knell of our plans.
So many of us trusted them
The wizards of free marketdom
We bought our shares and sold our souls
We all helped dig this massive hole.
Sean (the phantomphiddler) Appleby-Simpkin.
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Comment number 21.
At 1st Oct 2008, phantomphiddler wrote:/blogs/profile?userid=11646323
A CIGARETTE AND A THINK (#17)
Ive had a cigarette and think and I come to the conclusion that, not only are you right, I may have a claim against the government! I was brought up at a time and in an environment where most people smoked. My Doctor advised me to change brands, to cure bronchitis?
King James 1st hated tobacco and told us that it was bad for our lungs. Successive governments have been in the pay of the tobacco industry for centuries and knew full well what the affects of tobacco are on the populations health. Its not only the bankers that should be brought to book for manipulation but every government that hid the affects of tobacco to make a few more bob out of the masses. I include the medical profession as well for their lack of guts (theirs not ours) If they any scruples they would ban the sale of tobacco and we would go cold Turkey for a month or two and get over it.
Sean (gasp) Appleby-Simpkin
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