´óÏó´«Ã½

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Mods - I'm surprised that this blog is open before 22:00hrs...

Emily did a great job last night. She was articulate, eloquent, and asked many good questions during her interviews with Shaun Woodward and Nigel Farage. Please have her on more!

HELLO?

Post #8 names an EU party leader whereas I just wittered on about silly music costing license-money. Has your dog got no nose?

Hello: Is there a war on, or is blogdog just in a very bad mood?

PS Don't tell Obama about lot!

I wouldn't want to be Mrs Brown tonight!...

I'll test the blog modder.

As i watch the news i am reminded why it is nesessary to reintroduce the death penalty.

my post was just about the bbc wages thing. seems they are having a 'chinese' night?

1 SAMUEL 15:3 (#10 link)

"Go and strike down Amalek; put him under the ban with all that he possesses. Do not spare him, but kill man and woman , baby and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and donkey."

It's OK JJ - Obama hears nothing but his own voice - and 'it is good'.

I don't think the notion of meltdown is restricted to the Government alone.

Maybe there's a link?

#5 Celtic Lion

I was aware of the situation and paid tribute to David Carradine. Just suggested it may be appropriate to re run Kung Fu. For a new generation who never saw it originally and as a revisit for those of us who were influenced by it.

In a completely non political manner it contains messages of wisdom and another perspective on reality. Something which could be appropriate to the world-in a non political way.

Celtic Lion

David Carradine RIP

PS Please ´óÏó´«Ã½ re run Kung Fu, for those who are too young to have seen it the first time. It contains wisdom pertinent to the current global situation-in a non political way.

Purnell ???

Last night

/blogs/newsnight/fromthewebteam/2009/06/wednesday_3_june_2009.html

Post 15

I think you should remove this Post

I can't believe I'm sat here listening to Labour party representatives internally arguing on national TV about the Labour party and Brown's ability to lead the Country. A great vote of confidence to the general public. Brown needs to go, Labour should follow him and the voice of the nation should be heard and allowed to vote for a democratically elected representative for the country and move on.

Did anyone notice Ken Livingstone's barely concealed smirk when referring to the 50% rate of tax?

#17 brossen99

Very very good I like it when someone can pull something like that. Have you got the tingles running through you when all the medias top story is simply what you dropped in a post 24 hours before.

I salute you.

Celtic Lion

What are people on tonight, a major political story has just broken, this is one of the few political blogs open, it's after the electoral watershed yet some are going on about music and dead actors... Unbelievable! :-(

As for Purnell's short but sharp letter to his 'Boss', at the moment it's a "Heseltine" moment, if Purnell chooses to make a personal statement to the Commons tomorrow or Monday it could well become the "Howe" moment for Labour and Brown - the next few days will be very interesting indeed.

PROBLEM ASSIGNMENT/DIAGNOSIS

Oh dear, frightened Muslim female in Burka voting New Labour in Preston out of fear of the BNP. If that isn't evidence of dirty ('Holocaust') tricks having been played by the main parties, I don't know what is.

Where has Old Labour gone? It isn't the expenses or even the economy, it's the absence of governance, yet people still can't see that it's this.

PS Liam Byrne talks like a male Hazel Blears.

A MASTERCLASS IN THE BANAL + GUITAR

I really thought it was a spoof - tell me it was - please?

'The Politics Pen' aka Newsnight Dome? Heaven help us, I think it might be (supposed to be) EDGY.

And you found a bunch of pathetic narcissists (Yo JJ!) to do the silly walk and ape the silly talk. I feel an award coming on.

AND THEN YOU ADDED A GUITAR!

Are you REALLY going to persevere with a year of this achingly gauche format? Oh p-lease!

FreeDom Of Speech

I Think this Post should be REmoved 2

Shirley whats her face Threat 2 Democracy WHAT DEmocracy Would that Be

DE Mock Crap Say

remove this post

Re: My post today - No 4, as at 23.16 hrs still under moderation.

Should it in due course get past the Moderator .........

I DID NOT have the script or running order of tonights show provided to me before the programme. Period.

Good to see that the trailed plans for commentary on the lead up to the General Election will have little or no input from any member of the public.

After all, what would they know?

THE NPDS HAVE TAKEN OVER THE COMMUNITY

barrie (#14) "It's OK JJ - Obama hears nothing but his own voice - and 'it is good'."

Anyone watching 'The Apprentice' last night or 'Big Brother' tonight, must surely have an inkling by now that striving to be a is getting seriously out of hand.

We need to re-open mental hospitals, as 'Care in the Community' just isn't working. In fact, some of these folk even seem to think they can run countries, even when we've dispensed with the infrastructure for doing so.

Hold on, perhaps this is a mental hospital?

#22 Boiler Plated

Obviously you weren't influenced by Kung Fu. Carradine wasn't just an actor, he played one of the most iconic and influential roles of all time. With subtlety. Which was why he got it over Bruce Lee.

The story of the night wasn't Purnell, it was Carradine. perhaps Kung Fu will be re run now.

Then you might understand that there are greater and deeper philosophies than here today gone tommorrow politics (and politicians).

Celtic Lion

BURKAISM (#23)

Careful JJ! You see how easily you slip into burkaism - that could have been John Simpson under there. The burka is GENDERLESS - that is, surely, its intended function? Also, Simpson is not a Muslim, so the burka is no indication of faith adherence either. Some days it just don't pay to get up!

Where can I buy/Beg/Borrow/Steel/half hinch the Post Removing Tool?

Post Remove Remove Post (where do all these Posts get Removed 2)

Rimmer World/Removal World?

#11 Boiler Plated

How little you know about Mrs Brown's involvement in all this. Some other posters do.

It's the biggest story of the night and you post about domestic relationships. ?????

Celtic Lion

PS I served my time as an apprentice in a Boiler Shop.

I was a bit disappointed with your alleged 2010 election jury, it would appear that your historian person is the only person likely to make a valuable contribution to the debate. Posh ethnic minority contingent hardly credible as an accurate portrayal of ethnic minorities in general. Furthermore, your young Asian labour supporter alleged blogger would appear to be Connie( Blue Peter ) Huq's sister, but nobody would suspect the ´óÏó´«Ã½ of providing jobs for the boy's or lets get everyone's relatives in there just like MP's etc employing relations ?

#22 Boiler Plated

Read what Barrie posts about "the lie within the lie". Think about what JJ writes about theatrics and narcissism.

Politics is not really important. It is a minority diversion as it is.

If earthworms, bees, plankton and soil nitrifying bacteria disappeared tomorrow. Then that is a problem you should be really really worried about. Purnell, Brown et al are just some self created diversion of your concern.

Earthworms, bees, plankton and nitrogen fixing bacteria don't have agents, spin doctors, media consultants, PR companies etc. They do their work without payment. So they can't afford the media spotlight like politicians and the media circus.

So I work for them for nothing. So I don't get paid, so I am poor. But at least the work is worthwhile and properly important. Unlike politicians resigning. Which in the cosmic scheme of things, as I said before are here today and gone tomorrow.

"but it doesn't take much to see that the problems of three little people don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world. Someday you'll understand that. Now, now... Here's looking at you kid."

Recognise the quote?

Celtic Lion

Post 34 Yes

I agreed and said so last night RE your last last Night

That post was removed

Remove this Post

Labour Party supporters and members need to get real and understand they are not likely to win the next General Election, whenever it takes place, two months from now or 1 year.

They need to understand that to elect a new leader in reaction to the realisation that Brown is not that popular in the Country, would be a stupid reaction, similar to the Tory reaction to elect William Hague in 1997, instead of the previous Chancellor, [whose name escapes me].

A new leader is not going to affect the public's attitude, who are disillusioned with the drift of the Labour Party, and because they have been in power for twelve years. We believe we need a change. There is one proviso however, which is how the economy and the general state of the State is functioning. So if there are improvements and the oft reported 'green shoots' do develop further, we may think it better to stay with the lack lustre Prime Minister.

In all this panic, it is of course in the interests of the Conservative Party and the Liberal Democrats to call for an election; because the longer the Labour Party hang on, it is quite possible that the measures the Government has taken will bring about an upturn. This will take another six months to ascertain probably. Nevertheless, even with good economic upturn results, the British people may still feel they wish for a change of Government, as the current lot are tired and debilitated. But this is not a reason for them to go now!

For the sake of democracy and the efficient future running of our Parliament, we require the current members of Parliament to reach a legislative solution to the rules of the 'green book', and make some efficient changes such as reduction in the numbers of Parliamentary seats. To have an election now would put these changes back and even result in jeopardising them coming about, since if there were substantial new MPs they would not have the knowledge, experience, nor motivation to complete them, having just been elected.

For the long term stability of the English State and Parliament, I believe it is better all around to finish the current tasks, put off changes which will come about in any case, if the public desire it.

It should be remembered that the Conservatives have never earned the Electors confidence, by presenting a series of policies which we can assess. It could be rather damaging to the Economy to make changes now before we know how the efforts that have already been made are achieving. Remember, the Tory massive Public Spending reductions, at THIS juncture, will lead to further unemployment than we have now. But they would blame it on Labour. Look back at the early years of the Thatcher revolution, and the serious economic problems of 1980/81/82/83; only the Falklands War got Thatcher returned in summer '83. This recession wasn't caused by Labour policies although he should have been more responsive to Bank lending, borrowing and the Housing bubble.

Get on with the job and stop panicking! You'll get sacked soon enough.

barriesingleton(#9)Has your dog got no nose?

No, I'm more of a cat person, but I suspect your dog can sniff pot in your tea.

I like Emily as a presenter, and I think she should be given more airtime on NewsNight - just my opinion which I am entitled to have.

My Personal views -

Next Wednesday's Parliamentary Vote of No Confidence

Why are we not hearing about ?

Many of your viewers will not know about and why Mr Brown and his cohorts are so vulnerable now.

Or what the coded words used by your Labour guests having ago at each other mean "Secret ballot on Mr Brown leadership".

If the anti-Mr Brown MPs' don't get a secret ballot on the leadership on Monday , they will vote for or abstain from Wednesday's no confidence vote and not only cause a Labour leader election but also a general election.


PS.
Now the NuLabour project is in danger , watch out for the personal smear campaigns and the talking up of the bogeyman (BNP) (fear is a good way to get disillusioned voters out to vote for you) by the NuLabour vested interest groups.

But maybe I have a cynical view of NuLabour tactics.

General Election Panel

In the spirit of this new open democratic era that we are promised and if we are to be broadcast at with these peoples (panels) personal opinions up until and through a general election , surly NN should make these peoples vested interests known to the public ?

Do any of them have any financial dealing with EU bodies ?

Do any of them have any financial dealings with quangos ?

etc ?


Funniest bits of tonight's show

1) Shirley Williams suggesting that any general election should be delayed until October or November. I suggest she knows full well that the Irish Lisbon Treaty referendum mk2 is to be held in September or October 2009 and the Tories manifesto (when published) is going to promise the UK has a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty , if the Treaty has not been ratified in all 27 nation states by then.

2) The ex Tony Blair no.10 advisor on your panel suggesting that NuLabour under new leadership can only go for a Hung Parliament with the Lib Dems now , but is that not why Alan Johnson (new leader in waiting) is pushing for Proportional Representation (PR) suddenly , it's the only way the Lib Dems will willingly go into coalition with them.

purnell is just a milliband camp follower? not a serious figure then.

Good Morning (Ablutions/Solutions)

I never kick a man when he is Down (nulab isnt a Man)

Given the State of nulabour mp NO's (2)

I have just Dispatched/Flushed A Potential Nulabour Candidate to Westminster.

it was a big One

Flush this Post

OOPS did I forget 2 Mention the Big One was Brown

Dead when Red

Better Dead than Red (flag Flying)

Fly this Post

Delusions of grandeur.

Just hearing Ms. Cooper is next up for 'big things', eh? As with others, such as Peter Mandelson, Liam Byrne and Shaun Woodward, this seems based on little other than delusional witterings masquerading as loyalty. And still stuck on the sad lifebelt of the 'look how nice folk were about him at the G20' plea, like that meant or means anything.

It's the logic of all these on-record statements from all in the Westminster bubble and its Usual Village Idiot remoras that astound. We are to take seriously, and agree to be led by people who 'hear' things that clearly are just in their own fevered brains, than anything they could possibly be hearing from the lips of normal human beings.

And if I get one more automaton trotting out the 'what people want' mantra as if they can convince anyone bar themselves, I'll scream.

This country needs leadership. Now.

ps: Actual leadership that is. Not 'the country wants me to get on with the job I have been doing so well for over a decade' variety.

dAllan169 (various) No need to be crypic here, try to be clear. There's no requirement to be schizophrenic either - it's just annoying. We all self-medicate one way or another - you should perhaps do the same? ;-)

43 JJ I consider myself Spanked.

Its called FREEDOM

My Powder IS and WILL Remain Dry

(Clinic Clear)

CL #34

"of all the blogs in all the towns..."

It's good you are posting on this one! :-)

38. At 03:49am on 05 Jun 2009, Steve-London
surly NN should make these peoples vested interests known to the public ?

Across the whole MSM commentary circuit, this aspect is either not addressed at all, or at best woefully.

The whole procedure is flawed and needs sorting out.

From who is on whose speed dial to 'pop in' to the studio, to who decides to make the invitation, to what questions are fed in prompt, vast shaping systems simmer below the surface, insidiously allowing a seemingly innocent outsider (who in fact might have a rampant agenda of their own, or worse shared by in theory 'objective' editorial) to spout whatever they fancy in complement to the news as fed.

And even when grudgingly put in context, the descriptions can matter, a lot, so they need to be handled with care.

I am not sure when it became necessary to add adjectives, but 'hawkish' or 'conservative' seem to get appended to 'enhance the narrative' way beyond the need for simple information to assist context.

What next? 'Here's rabid righty Tory toff X facing off golden-hued ex-people's champion Mayor to win you, the viewing public's hearts'. Two wings don't make a right, and Andrew Pierce or Kelvin McK do not 'offset' Kevin Maguire, Polly, Jasmin et al, like so kind of comm-bon trading scheme.

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN!

Why should the Conservatives be allowed to gain an early general election automatically, as a result of political team upheaval in the Labour Governing Party. This would not be fair on the general public although they, and the Liberal Democrats, are running around claiming all is over and ' it's our go now, ' we want a General Election.

Don't be duped by these attempts to gain power early, their time will come as and when the public votes for them. However, it is not in the public interest to abandon what the present Government has done vis the Economy, and we should wait to discover over the next 6 to 9 months, how these efforts have borne fruit. To change now would not give enough time to learn whether these handles the Government has tweeked, will yield a turn about in the economic fortunes. The facts are that the decline of November/December last year has been arrested; we now await to discover if these policies pull us further forward.

What we can be certain about is that the only policies that we know the Conservatives will deploy, a massive cut in public spending at THIS juncture, would put the employment levels in a spiral of decline or even a slump, ie, large increases in unemployment. The Shadow Chancellor said this was the most important thing to do when they took power; I think on the Politics Sunday show. We know this also because this is the very same action which they took in 1979/80 when they took over from Labour and there were serious increases in unemployment until the late eighties; which also led to the miners strike and regular asset stripping of equipment being sold abroad by entrepreneurs in the name of Investment Bankers.

If the Conservatives or the Liberal Democrats are to become the next Government they must win by putting solid policies to the electorate, which the electorate can see develop and be argued over by debate through the media during many months; not from a reactive default position because Labour Cabinet Ministers, including all back-benchers from both Parties have lost confidence; after a month of negative exposure due to the expenses debacle.

What did I say in my comment - No 4 - that is so different from what has been said thereafter?

OMG- politics pen- who is responsible for the recent series of cringworthy ideas. its not like they are new but charity shop secondhand rumage bin ideas.no originality. style making up for substance? having given the benefit of the doubt for a while i now believe there is something seriously wrong at NN. is there someone with these 'ideas' who might be happier working with a daytime chatshow audience? birds of a feather and all that?

Lord sugar...really! who next?..Susan Boyle minister for arts and entertainment...specifically the task of promoting karaoke in labour heartlands, either that or health secretary.

50. At 12:35pm on 05 Jun 2009, thecookieducker wrote:
Lord sugar...really! who next?

I think it may be a tad to do with his sharing, with some others, that there has, is and only will be but one to save 'us'.

Hence there is a case for a political website, just logging the various great, good and all round goofy who seem to think going on record and saying stuff like that in what may have seemed/seems a good idea then/now, but then available to call up in evidence simply from their own mouths in the future when being interviewed or judged for office, etc.

A bit like a FaceBook picture, six sheets to the wind, mooning a nun at the office party. Only a tad more damning as booze cannot be used as mitigation for such howlingly poor judgement.

Not fired, so much as not even worthy of being selected for the job.

Should 'we' ever get the chance to have a say, that is. How many more unelected, non-MP types do we get Lording over us in high office before this voting lark becomes sooo last year?

dAllan169

Caught your comment before it was deleted.

To your question where do comments go. There is a solar system with a Plant Comment, where they live a commentable existence. It is next to the lost Biro planet. A sort of conceptual solar system.

The planet has no economy planned, command, market or otherwise. As the Guardian tells us. Comment is free. Though some comment is freer than others.

New Fazer

The points for cryptic link spotting are yours. I thank you.

JJ

At least when the Government now feed us bull do do, it will have Sugar on it. The rest I believe is in your territory.

Celtic Lion

Just saw one of Suralun's acolytes on SKY, at what seems to be a Westminster village fete with all manner of Tottenham Court Road Electronic shop besuited spivs milling about looking for a camera that's looking for a talking head.

Beats working, I guess.

This young eager beaver (possibly a Lord, or Minister. Who knows, or cares, these days?) seemed to have been told to tell us, fresh from the bunker, that it is in fact a disaster for the Tories as they should have done even better, and in fact all is well and part of a masterplan.

Just... one that the entire country, and most of the Cabinet, is not buying as such.

So far the story seems to be as expected though I would have been happier if the Lib Dems had been doing better.

I still question whether Brown can manage to hang on - terrible for the Labour Party if he does not - as McBride still has to resurface and the Iraq War inquiry has to start ... and the party machinery seems to barely exist.

But it was trite of Campbell and Prescott to say there was no campaign.

What could they have campaigned on? What is there in their record that merits a vote?

Harman made the usual "we have to listen" comment but after this length of time who cares?

My new Age Post 52

Only commented once in the Guardian, it was removed Toot Sweet (my post didnt touch the ground)

The Guardian Newspaper = The Guardian of What ?

Asleep on Stag/Guard (chutable offence)

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Parrot Fashion Politics (spin 2 win its a winner or its a Dead Parrot)
take yer pick

things can only get bitter/better/ things can only get worse

Is this A Good Day 2 Bury Bad News the Bad news being tony blair/gordon brown's newlabour party

When Newsnight covers the election could some analysis be given over to whether Tory gains have been influenced in part by the targeted money that has been pouring in to some areas?

Clearly there is a massive amount of discontent with Labour but it may indicate how soft or hard the vote for the Tories is.

My #56 was removed. I can't see why.

What I said was the BNP have claimed that their website had more hits than all of the other parties combined. So far they have won a county councilor.

They have also claimed that they are not a Nazi party. Its not news that many of their supporters revere Hitler.

The usual far right posters are hard at work on this page again today.

Who can remember that genetic variation is greater within a race than between races and that there is no basis for race "realism"?

Who realises that Hitler was a murderous maniac with millions of deaths to his credit?

What is the difference between Nazis and people who believe in eugenics, race "realism" and planned economies Hitler style?

But then again who cares what the far right thinks out there in the real world?

#47 womblingfree789

"However, it is not in the public interest to abandon what the present Government has done vis the Economy, and we should wait to discover over the next 6 to 9 months, how these efforts have borne fruit."

Labour could well be said to have made a significant contribution to the economic crisis by their attitude to light touch regulation and the neutered FSA. Its trite to think that they should get credit for it. They also know that they won't win the next election and therefore have not put in place the kind of cuts and savings needed to pay for the debt reduction used to bale us out.

So Labour have the interests of the Party at heart and not the country.

#47 womblingfree789

"However, it is not in the public interest to abandon what the present Government has done vis the Economy, and we should wait to discover over the next 6 to 9 months, how these efforts have borne fruit."

I would present the opposite scenario. In that it is essential to abandon and reverse everything the Government has done.

The economy is a sub-system of the social system, which is a sub-system of the the planetary ecological system.

One assessment of Government policy could be that to stabilise the economic system, the Government is will to borrow from the Earth's ecological system. Risking destabilizing that.

If the planet's ecological system crashes (just as the economic system has done) it will also take out the sub systems dependent on it. The social and the economic. So over a time period of 42 months or more there is no sense in the Government's economic strategy.

If I was the Captain of a potentially sinking ship, I would not have my maintenance crews painting the cabins, when the hole in the hull needs fixing.

Again I cite Prof Jay Forrester, when dealing with complex systems you often get the opposite result to that intended. The Government by trying to stabilise the economy, will crash the ecological systems and thus take the socio-economic system out by proxy.

"There's an alternative. There's always a third way, and it's not a combination of the other two ways. It's a different way".

David Carradine (dead actor)


Celtic Lion

Never in the History of British Politics has so much been lost to so many, by so few. Jacquelyn Bastien

Part of a quote in the todays Daily Express letters page.

A more than Reasonable Point

thegangofofone (#59;60) Have you watched '1984' or read the book? It depicts people behaving just as you behave when an image of some fabricated 'dick dastardly' was flashed up on a screen, the point being that it just Big Brother's conditioning. Do you sincerely think you are helping to protect people from some real or imagined evil?

Do you appreciate the point Orwell was making? Look up denazification in Wikipedia and focus on 'The Collective Guilt' campaign constructed by allied Psychological Warfare.

What do you know about Buchenwald?

I CERTAINLY DON'T BELIEVE IT

We have been gawping at and listening to a bunch of people who tacitly or explictly subscribe to free-market economics based on the premise that nobody can control market-forces. That being so, why does anyone think they can manage something as complex as 'global warming'? They can't even sort out a 12 million pound ACA budget without getting themsleves into trouble (so we are led to believe ;-)).

Is this a quote from

a) Days of Thunder, Dr. Claire Lewicki (Nichole Kidman) to Cole Trickle (Tom Cruise)

or

b) Caroline Flint to Gordon Brown

"Control is an illusion, you infantile egomaniac"

Celtic Lion

The great leader and his cabinet reshuffle

I thought the reshuffle was brilliantly engineered by Gordon Brown. He kept Darlings and Milibands allegiance by keeping them in their old jobs. Alan Johnson, his most likely successor, was given the poisoned gift of Home Office - a job which had finished the careers of countless predecessors before him. Yvette Cooper was given a big promotion to Work and Pensions, which no doubt served as timely consolation to her unsung hero husband, Ed Balls, who had to stay as childrens minister.for now. Mandelson rose to a newly created role of first Secretary of State, effectively leading the cabinet as Browns deputy, and thus weakening Harriet Harmans position as DPM. All problems solved ;-)

People in the Labour party must know by now that removing Gordon Brown will cause instant death for the whole party, as a leadership contest will trigger a general election. Thats why I doubt we are going to see major Labour revolts in the coming weeks. After all, less power is better than no power at all.

#67 mademoiselle h

Sometimes genius is stating the obvious. Thanks for doing it

"People in the Labour party must know by now that removing Gordon Brown will cause instant death for the whole party, as a leadership contest will trigger a general election. That's why I doubt we are going to see major Labour revolts in the coming weeks. After all, less power is better than no power at all."

There appears to be a balancing act of posturing between what you write and the 'rebels' (oh how romantic that sounds) needing to appear to be doing something.

Celtic Lion