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Wednesday 3 March 2010

Verity Murphy | 11:16 UK time, Wednesday, 3 March 2010

UPDATE - MORE DETAILS ON TONIGHT'S PROGRAMME

Tonight, our Political editor Michael Crick will be looking back at the life and career of Michael Foot - former Labour leader, lifelong peace campaigner and left wing rebel

And in the studio we will be debating just how the party which he led for three years has changed since he was at the helm.

Also, with the prospect of a hung parliament hanging over us David Grossman reports on what such a scenario would mean both politically and economically, what history has taught us and what role the Lib Dems might play.

Matt Frei has a report from Cuba - a country that largely relies on the past to survive. Tourists flock to cigar factories and Hemmingway's house, and for the regime mythology helps keep it in place, but the past can be both a blessing and curse for Cuba?

Plus, what a load of rubbish... with the River Thames at its lowest tide for five years hundreds of volunteers are trawling the banks for rubbish as part of a clean-up operation. Steve Smith has joined them in the mud.

ENTRY FROM 1116GMT:

With the prospect of a hung parliament hanging over us we take a look at what such a scenario would mean both politically and economically, what history has taught us and what role the Lib Dems might play.

We have a report from Cuba by Matt Frei looking at how much the government there is reliant on nostalgia to keep going.

Plus, what a load of rubbish... with the River Thames at its lowest tide for five years hundreds of volunteers are trawling the banks for rubbish as part of a clean-up operation. Steve Smith will be joining them - cue the puns - surely you cannot refuse...

More details later

Verity

Comments

  • Comment number 1.

    Lord Sainsbury invented the Lib Dems to split the opposition vote. Nowadays their only purpose is to act as back-up for the Labour Party and, in the event of a hung parliament, keep the Labour Party in power.

  • Comment number 2.

    We are already witnessing the effects of (a fear of) a hung parliament. The 拢 has plunged, and gold prices climbed.
    If there isn't an agreement reached in a hung parliament, then there may have to be another general election..............

  • Comment number 3.

    Surely the death of Michael Foot gives you the excuse to devote the entire programme to propaganda on behalf of the Labour Party. Like a sort of 50 minute PPB.

  • Comment number 4.

    Steve Smith trawling the river bank for rubhish:

    If he comes across a Victorian cast iron fire place - with tiles, tell him to give us a shout.

  • Comment number 5.

    Bang goes another one of our choices, the EU has allowed GM spuds, so we will get them as well.

  • Comment number 6.

    Has newsnight got any stories about President Barry Obama in the pipeline; you know, the birth certificate issue thats raging over the pond.

  • Comment number 7.

    Verity

    The 'pun-filled clean-up operation' seems to stink. Are you one of the media volunteers?

    Monika

  • Comment number 8.

    Future of the 大象传媒.

    I see the Newsnight team could not resist having a clown take part in the
    debate about the 大象传媒 cuts: Mackenzie, what a joke he is.

    If it was down to me I would keep Six Music. The reason it does not reach an audience is that it is only available on digital. It needs an FM signal.

    I would cut 大象传媒 Three. The so called 'risky' comedy it creates was the domain of 大象传媒 Two. It should go back there.

    Keep 大象传媒 Four - it is the only channel broadcasting serious music, art and history documentaries which are not fronted by celebrities.

    大象传媒 Proms had 12m viewers last year.

    Mackenzie said he could do it all for 拢45. He would. As a past editor of the erudite publication The Sun he is a figure not to be taken seriously. It must take at least thirty minutes to edit The Sun. We could not have a whole 大象传媒 channel dedicated to topless newsreaders. Mackenzie, stay in your bunker, you are not required.

    By the way The Sun costs 拢109 a year if you buy it everyday.

    The 大象传媒 did make a mistake by bringing back Wogan on Radio Two. There was an opportunity to give a new broadcaster a chance. A new voice on a secure channel where he/she would not have to get a huge following overnight. They could have built an audience. Sadly the management did not take it.


  • Comment number 9.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 10.

    Moving piece by Barbara Want on life after Nick Clarke.

    'After my husband Nick Clarke died, I had no love for my boys'

    Daily Telegraph:

    I only post this here as Nick was loved by everyone he worked with in the 大象传媒. He will never be forgotten.
    __________________________________________________________

  • Comment number 11.

    2. Mistress76uk 'We are already witnessing the effects of (a fear of) a hung parliament. The 拢 has plunged, and gold prices climbed.'

    How do you know that's what's caused the plunge? In fact, how do you know what causes anything? That's a serious, (and respectful) question.

  • Comment number 12.

    'We have a report from Cuba by Matt Frei looking at how much the government there is reliant on nostalgia to keep going.'

    isn't it looking forward to how China is faring as she grips the USA and Europe ever more tighly by the short and curlies? Over a billion people, and more Stalinist than the USSR ever was!

    The demise of communism (and The Cold War) is much overstated?

  • Comment number 13.

    a hung parliament would not be the end of the world....at least we won't invade Iran!

  • Comment number 14.



    It doesn't matter Murdoch is going the same way. The internet and people
    power has eroded the feudal powers. As it evolves ever more interaction the physicality of built structure and hierarchy of norms, of behaviours, will become not just less important but difficult to adjust too. Where once we knew where significance and value was asserted - through built environs of splendor of art and deception. People of old and new will be empowered with information to question their leaders and creatives with more authority than ever before. Lying and hiding behind with-held information is being eroded along with the towers of power. Murdoch and the 大象传媒 will be an addictive coded design interface just some of many. Nothing will be there to dredge up and hold on too. Power will be next to nothing and seemingly infinite.

  • Comment number 15.

    ETHIOPIA FAMINE AID 'SPENT ON WEAPONS'
    I was astounded that the 大象传媒 ran this story as a major news item not just on its website but as a lead story the whole range of it news programmes. I am especially astounded given the flimsiness of its 'sources'; two ' rebels, named as' Aregawi Berhe and Gebrehemedhin Araya. As the story progressed the first of these has seemingly grown from rebel to (by implication) 'unnamed' rebel leader to military commander and thence to the commander in charge of the whole rebel army; usually an indication of sloppy journalism looking for a sensational headline.
    As a much more reliable source, Max Peberdy of Christian Aid, says in the 大象传媒 web version: "It's 25 years since this happened, and in the 25 years it's the first time anybody has claimed any such thing".
    I was not there in 1985, but I was there - as a representative of the Foreign & Commonwealth Office (FCO) charged with helping the new government move from Marxism to Social Democracy - less than four years later; when the TPLF rebels had defeated the Derg government led by Mengistou. More important, I was then (for 4 years from 1989 to 1993) due the nature of my work (which included acting as liaison between the senior members of the Ethiopian government and the Western embassies) I was in close contact on the one hand with almost all the senior TPLF commanders; from its field officers through its Army Chief of Staff and its Head of Military Intelligence, to its real military leader - Seeye Abraha; one of the greatest, but least well known (not least to he 大象传媒 journalists!) generals of the latter part of the twentieth century. I was also in equally close contact with the senior management of REST (the Relief Society of Tigray) who handled the aid.
    On the other hand I was, of course, constantly briefed by the FCO in London and the British Ambassador in Addis Abeba; as well as by the UK SIS. I am therefore, almost uniquely well placed to report on the truth.
    First may I say that I have never heard of either of the two 'rebels' who are supposedly the 大象传媒's sources; and who were supposed to have been such important rebel leaders. Second, though the Derg government at the time did not pass on the aid it was given - and indeed used the famine as a weapon (which was why so many died) - I never heard the slightest hint (not even from the SIS) that aid money was used by the TPLF for weapons. Indeed, to bring in the (grain) food aid from Sudan they even had to carve out a complete new road system across the highlands on its border; which is why it took so long to arrive.
    Moreover, the TPLF were intensely proud that they had captured all their arms from the Derg forces; their favourite story was that they started the civil war 17 years earlier with a couple of Kalashnikovs and some shotguns and - unlike everyone else involved - had never received any arms from outside; a claim which was supported by the fact that all their arms clearly were of Soviet origin such as was supplied to the Derg. Incidentally, they eventually entered Addis at the head of a column of several thousand tanks - the cost of which would have been barely dented by the $95 million claimed here (though it would have been in line with the $4 billion given by the then USSR to the Derg for its own weapons!).
    I hold no brief for the CIA, but I saw absolutely no evidence for it in Ethiopia: remember at the time it was busy building the Taliban into a fighting force elsewhere! I got the distinct impression that it was happy to leave matters to the FCO and MI6.
    All in all, then, this story represents the worst sort of shoddy sensationalism and demands an apology; not least where Meles Zenawi has not just been the democratically elected leader of Ethiopia for 20 years but is also now one of the leaders of Africa as a whole and one on whom the future of that continent may depend.

  • Comment number 16.

    13. stevie 'a hung parliament would not be the end of the world....at least we won't invade Iran!'

    We won't invade Iran. They have some very powerful friends to their North (who in turn have powerful friends to their South-East). All the uncertainty is good for market volatility though.

  • Comment number 17.

    'Around 1983, the core cadres of TPLF founded the Marxist-Leninist League of Tigray in the line of the Albanian Party of Labour. They also incorporated the name Woyane in the title of their organization as an intentional reference to the Woyane rebellion, a revolt in Tigray that arose and was crushed in 1943.

    TPLF is organized with a Central Committee and a politburo. TPLF was divided in four regional organization, three in Tigray and the fourth those who reside outside of Tigray. Each of the regions in Tigray had politburo members coordinating their activities. The foreign committee supervised subdivisions in Sudan, Middle East, Europe and North America.

    Following the success of the TPLF in 1991 in gaining control of Ethiopia, and the collapse of communist regime in Albania, the TPLF dropped all references to Marxism-Leninism.'


    These , they do seem to be prone to make-overs/auto-regime changing. Whatever works perhaps?

    'Aregawi Berhe, the former military commander of the Tigrayan People鈥檚 Liberation Front (TPLF), claimed that of the $100 million that went through the rebels鈥 hands, 95 per cent was diverted to buy weapons or recruit Ethiopians to their cause. He said the rebels put on a "drama" to get their hands on the relief money. "The aid workers were fooled," he said.'



    It seeems Dr Aregawi Berhe has turned his PhD into a book.

  • Comment number 18.

    :o( Sad to hear about the death of Michael Foot.
    Never knew he was a Eurosceptic either......

    Source:

  • Comment number 19.

    11. "How do you know that's what's caused the plunge?"

    Der Spiegel: "The most immediate trigger for the recent currency swoon came in the form of political surveys which indicated that a Conservative victory in general elections (which will likely be held in early May) may not be a foregone conclusion. Markets were alarmed out of fear that a close election could make it difficult for parliament to pass a strict package of savings measures."

    They also point out that unlike Greece we don't have EU partners to bail us out.

  • Comment number 20.

    So, what was going on, was the funding of other Marxist-Leninist (Trotskyite?) groups (using eager Western kids' dosh) in order to undermine Soviet backed (statist) ?

    Surely not?

  • Comment number 21.

    19. MaggieL Thanks.

    Nothing to do with cutting back on QE and King 'talking the pound down' then?

  • Comment number 22.

    Weren't the originally of the Stalinist, i.e Chinese, ilk, i.e the type which thought that the USSR had, after Stalin's death, become soft and revisionist? There was . Lots of name/ideology changes/subtrerfuges. See Golitsin and Angleton.

  • Comment number 23.

    'Tourists flock to cigar factories and Hemmingway's house'

    Oh please - it is spelt HEMINGWAY. Newsnight is a serious, intelligent programme - why can't you employ people who can spell? Is this the same person who wrote 'Noble' Peace Prize recently?

  • Comment number 24.

    Fortunately ....

    The Cashcroft Affair rumbles on, hopefully to a fully just conclusion.

    Two questions ......

    Is it just convenient that Mr Hague has only known for a 鈥榝ew鈥 months which gets him out of trouble regarding his Nn appearance stroke execution on 2nd June of last year?

    /blogs/newsnight/fromthewebteam/2009/06/tuesday_2_june_2009.html


    More importantly will Mr Hague now be offered up as the ....

    鈥渨e鈥檝e got to save ourselves from the wrath of the electorate鈥 ....

    Sacrificial Lamb?

  • Comment number 25.

    Old Labour collapsed because it didn't have the nouse to learn from Michael Young what the implications of Cyril Burt's work was!

    New Labour under Blair just didn't care to listen as there was dosh to be made at the expense of the daft.

  • Comment number 26.

    Michael Foot will be looking down and laughing at the media machines calling him "principled", "a political and intellectual giant"; the same ones who tore him to shreds for wearing the "wrong" coat on Remembrance Day.

    He was unfortunate in leading the Labour Party at precisely the time that the British swallowed Thatcher's poison of greed and individualism hook, line and sinker, resulting in Labour becoming adamant that to regain power they had to become as Tory as the Tories, or perhaps one better, by appointing an ex- Fettes Anglo Scot as their leader.

    The rest is tragedy.

    I shall raise a glass or two of raki to Michael Foot tonight; what an orator!

  • Comment number 27.

    Smoking holidays this spring.

    CUBA! Of course ; Cohibas for breakfast, dinner and tea and a healthier population than UK. Light me up, campesino!

    Thanks, Matt.

  • Comment number 28.

    #23
    Almost everyone makes word mistakes on here - doesn't mean they are not intelligent but some proofreading should happen on NN before it gets posted. Sometimes I would like to saved from my own moments of madness and frustrations . Someone to return a post to me and say 'would you like to review that?'

  • Comment number 29.

    I will be fascinated to discover exactly what is the 'investigation' 大象传媒 News has made into the Ethiopian Arms Affair. More and more people, from Bob Geldof down are rubbishing the idea, yet the 大象传媒 is still plugging it. What on earth is going on?

    In response to the pseudonomyous 'Statist', not merely was MI6 (or the CIA)not providing cash to the 'rebels', but according to the British ambassador at the time, James Glaze,there wasn't even a single MI6 agent in the country; even though he had requested such support from London!

  • Comment number 30.

    大象传媒 NEWS coverage of Jacob Zuma's visit is what one would expect of HELLO journalists! It's all girlie!

  • Comment number 31.

    29. David Mercer 'not merely was MI6 (or the CIA)not providing cash to the 'rebels''

    I don't think you quite understand. My point was that naive pop fans etc provided the money.... but facilitated by whom?

    Do you believe everything/anything that Civil Servants (e.g. in the FCO/MI6) say? They sign the OSA you know....;-)

    Did you read the above (embedded) links? e.g.

    'Mr Gates stated that since there were only a limited number of rebel movements, the suggestion cannot be ruled out that the CIA not only knew about, but supported the diversion of aid funds to the TPLF in order to battle to Soviet supported government of Ethiopia.'

  • Comment number 32.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 33.

    LEST WE FORGET - THE GREAT AND GOOD LAUD MICHAEL FOOT

    Apparently Michael Foot was 'A Great Parliamentarian.' But let's not forget that those lauding him are the same great and good who described Tony Blair as A GREAT COMMUNICATOR. Yet, when listening to Blair, I always felt 'dissatisfied' (Obama has the same effect). Then I would print out the speech, only to find he had 'communicated' gobbledegook.

    What can one deduce from such pronouncements? They are of no validity, and the whole Westminster charade has no substance. What chance governance in these islands? But then, now that we have sold out to the EU 'Greater Charade', I suppose it is of no real account.

    I just wish we didn't have to go through this performance every time another Westminster performer dies. For all his putative integrity, HE NEVER DENOUNCED THAT PIT OF INIQUITY, on behalf of the impotent, manipulated, voting masses. Indeed, not one ever has.

  • Comment number 34.

    29. David Mercer Ummm...'educated' westerners, incredibly politically naive, arrogantly narcissistic and easily duped?

    Is that at all possible?.....

  • Comment number 35.

    David Mercer:

    A short film by Adam Curtis (Approx 6mins)..one mans view.

    News reporting, political conflicts and aid:

  • Comment number 36.

    David Mercer 'charged with helping the new government move from Marxism to Social Democracy'

  • Comment number 37.

    "The Jailing of Jon Venables."

    Did anyone notice Jack Straw's struggle, once again, to conceal a smirk when trying to sound truthful?

    "I'm sorry I can't give more details, at the moment. I appreciate the very intense public interest in this, but the public needs to be re-assured..."

    Hmm, what could there be to smirk about, bar 'I know something that you don't'?

  • Comment number 38.

    An earlier .

  • Comment number 39.

    Did we really need an explanation of "water body"?

  • Comment number 40.

    Nobody believes what people like Campbell or Heseltine have to say. That's what New Labour and The Conservatives have brought to modern British politics. Sadly, the Lib-Dems were just created to knacker the Labour Party as the anarchistic yanks would never have allowed a real Labour Party (as in the Stalinist USSR/China) in post WWII Europe.

    And no, this Government didn't nationalise the banks. This Government is still selling everything off, and has crippled the public sector well into the future. The old game is still being played, just with different names, and far more deviously/destructively.

  • Comment number 41.

    THE SMIRK OF A STRAW MAN (#37)

    Oh indeed - I did notice! It would fit nicely with my suspicion that what Venables has done, is 'technical', such as trying to sell his story.

    Did anyone notice the unbelievably oily young Blair, being introduced by the unbelievably poor judge of men - Michael Foot - as having 'a great future'. Well, Foot sort of got that right; Blair has 'done well', but THE COUNTRY PAID DEARLY.

    Has anyone noticed the surface veins on Dave's face? Not another one relieving stress in the time-honoured British fashion surely?

    No one could fail to recoil at Campbell trying to say that Foot had values that had been fundamental to New Labour. Nice try Ali. Tell it to the Marines - especially those fighting the Blair/IDS wars.

  • Comment number 42.

    Beautiful tribute by Michael tonight follwed by the superb studio discussion by Jeremy with Heseltine/Williams/Campbell on the Late Michael Foot.

    Very interesting discussion by Paul on the state of the 拢 and how the outcome of the general election will affect it.

    As for the litter problem, love the idea by Bill Bryson that anyone throwing litter from a moving vehicle should have 3 points off their licence :o)

  • Comment number 43.

    Interesting times. Anyone for a hung parliament?

  • Comment number 44.

    43. ecolizzy 'Interesting times. Anyone for a hung parliament?'

    The problem is, in order to sort this mess out a lot will have to be reversed which has been done over a very long time, and most people are still focusing on the wrong area (elected MPs). The damage was done by undermining/purging the Civil Serrvice and by privatising its foot-soldiers, the Public Sector. It is the Civil Service which needs purging, root and branch, and rebuilding with good people. The trouble is, unlike in China, it is not the attractive careeer it once was, which is the legacy of Thatcher and Blair etc with their anarchistic no such thing as society and anti-elitism subversion designed to free the markets and more darkly....release capital invested in the state.

  • Comment number 45.

    41. barriesingleton 'No one could fail to recoil at Campbell trying to say that Foot had values that had been fundamental to New Labour.'

    This type will learn to say and do anything that appears to work - Machavellian Intelligence is one word for it.

  • Comment number 46.

    Springy Times

    The fourth day of Spring
    I鈥檓 going to swing
    And whenever 鈥榚ssential鈥 I鈥檓 going to sting
    Adding next rings to the long string
    With which the essential folly to wring
    Out. And then I may sing
    Of how much I love the forthcoming Spring.
    The Sun it is shining, albeit through some clouds
    There will be more, however, in times yet to come.

    mim

  • Comment number 47.

    #46 addendum

    My Spring started on the 1st of March....

  • Comment number 48.

    #44 Couldn't agree more Stat! But just where do we go from here? I can't see anyway out of the bind we have got ourselves into. We keep going down deeper into the hole we have created! : (

  • Comment number 49.

    Just to be clear: it's strictly politically incorrect to endorse race realism or nationalism, but it's de rigueur to laud (even those that abuse you and others) whilst funding

    If those making their name helping the latter don't see the consequences of their actions, then those actions didn't happen, right?

    Anything which makes one's head hurt must be wrong - right? Stands to resson, otherwise why does it hurt?

    . Who were they exactly? Sounds a bit 'racist' to me.

  • Comment number 50.

    48. ecolizzy 'Couldn't agree more Stat! But just where do we go from here? I can't see anyway out of the bind we have got ourselves into. We keep going down deeper into the hole we have created!'

    As I keep saying, all one can do is contribute to a growing critical mass of people pointing out what is wrong, and how it is wrong. It's the only way.

  • Comment number 51.

    ecolizzy (#48) 'But just where do we go from here?'

    It's a bit depressing I know, but in the end, I fear we don't matter much.

  • Comment number 52.

    HUNG PARLIAMENT OF SHEEP AND LAMBS: 'NO CHANGE' (#43)

    Hung Parliament with enough RADICAL INDEPENDENTS: a slim chance for FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE.

    SPOIL PARTY GAMES.

  • Comment number 53.

    keep on getting this thing which pops up asking me for my opinion on the website and the other day was asked for my telephone number and something reminding me I have to behave myself which freaked me out a bit it. Accepted you have to do some of that but can you find a different way to do it ? Feeling a bit set upon by the suddenness of it - bit like the attack by a red hue the other day. Can we have something more calming that slowly evolves and informs us that were maybe offsetting ourselves in an uncomplimentary way and may need a recalibration of the senses ? You know a little bit of humour to take the wind out of our sails when required.

  • Comment number 54.

    Most of Jeremy's implied despair at the quality of politicians and politicians compared to the titans of the past could equally well be applied to the gutter journalists of today. Journalists in the past were at least listened to and read with respect and interest rather than, as is now, held in universal contempt.

  • Comment number 55.

    A little bit dishonest of you not to give proper attribution for your . I'm disappointed in what I trust you agree is a rather unfortunate lapse in standards of ethical journalism.

  • Comment number 56.

    the Albanian communists thought the Stalanists 'too soft' and revisionist imagine what they would think of......NuLabour! Ha....

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