大象传媒

china

given the world economy is a zero sum game if china is getting rich who is getting poor? Maybe the title of JP piece should be 'Love of your Money'. No mention that the currency rate is the artful dodger taking the cash out the pocket. A rate they say that will never be 'reformed' because it will 'cost jobs'.

26k benefits

how can that not be enough to live on? they say it will make people 'homeless'. who? people living in mansions in chelsea?

how can china or russia be allowed to buy uk gas and water infrastructure if we can't buy theirs?

"how can china or russia be allowed to buy uk gas and water infrastructure if we can't buy theirs?"


Maybe it's because a select few here can make MONEY out of the cognitively challenged (here).

China is run by engineers, who think long term. Unlike the arrested developed here who can only think in terms of money, as opposed to wealth. "If I've got more money than him, I must be better than him".


Someone clever on here has explained it many times (i.e. free-market anarchists vs. statists aka international socialists [cosmopolitans] vs national socialists).

It's so simple, but very few on here will get it....geddit?

It would appear that corporate financial interests are at work behind the bishops opposing the ConDem 26k household benefit cap, the church is likely to hold a significant high class property portfolio as rented to those claiming welfare benefits. I suspect that the Banks will also be worried as they fund buy to let property speculators, landlords could be faced with the prospect of either cutting rents or throwing tenants out on the street and receiving nothing. Its probably no good trying to sell at current prices unless you can tap into stock brokers wishing to launder fat cat bonus payments. The benefit cap could result in a significant crash in house prices, especially in the more affluent areas, it could also put a stick through the spokes of the " Escape to the Country " wheel, " green trendies " unable to make enough money on their city dwelling. The 26K Benefit Cap must be a good thing all round as the UK housing market will be less rigged than it is at present, the next on the " state sponsored fat cat " chopping list needs to be a 26k per household cap on public sector pension payments, with some of the potential savings passed back to those on low pensions !

:o) Jeremy's even got a brand new article out in The Guardian on China!

More On Ron Raul


by Dr. Paul Craig Roberts

鈥淚f Ron Paul鈥檚 libertarian handlers and support base could escape their ideology, Ron Paul could be much better positioned to win the Republican nomination.
Here are some suggestions.
Ron Paul should be making the point that Social Security and Medicare are threatened by multi-trillion dollar wars that are funded by debt, by bailouts of a deregulated banking system, and by money creation to keep the banks afloat. Libertarians support deregulation, but their position has always been that deregulated industries must not be bailed out with public subsidies, much less subsidies that are so extensive that they threaten government solvency and the value of the currency.鈥�

250 quid a week rent might get you a rubbish 3 bed in London and other select parts of the country. Thats 13K a year. that would leave 13K a year to feed, cloth, transport, extra school activities, household bills, etc. and assuming there are no disability extra needs, 250 quid a week to live on for a family of 5/6 people isn't going to go that far. And remember those not dependent on out of work benefits will also recieve tax credits and child benefit on top of their 26K even if they get a million pound a year. Cause were all in it togeffer.

If controls are taken of social rentals, which happened, I think, in the 80s, and if rents rise almost to private rents and in response to the housing market which also happened, then more people rent out houses, naturally. Thus did more money accrue to landlords. If tenants move out of houses that have become expensive they will either become homeless or move elsewhere. This will set up strains in the new area as resentful people arrive. That will be only the beginning. It also sounds fiendishly bureaucratic. There is, of course, multiple occupancy as happened in Victorian times. That, too, was profitable for landlords.
It all seems rather messy and has taken a long time and vast social and employment changes to get where we are. How sad.

1.
At 19:08 23rd Jan 2012, jauntycyclist wrote:

china

26k benefits

how can that not be enough to live on? they say it will make people 'homeless'. who? people living in mansions in chelsea?

++
Chinese like many others are buying top end property in London - that should be a target for higher taxation (if their is any fairness in the system) as particularly for non-doms?

Perhaps JP can tell us how much the Chinese state guarantees each household in China? (my guess is a bit lower than 拢26K and is actually 0.000000000000 recurring)?

Heard JP saying China built on migrant labour? (but not immigrant labour as the Chinese will not subsidise immigrants with millions of 拢's/person in e.g. health benefits/person, alone) which means 'on yer bike' might as well be in their national anthem (perhaps it is & perhaps he can clear that one up also)?

Allowing China to buy up UK infrastructure assets is fulfilling Karl Marx's dream of a communist world order.

For Marx, only capitalist's dynamism could develop the means of production - there could never be socialism in a single country - there could only be a development of economies through historical materialism - and that means harnessing the power of capitalism to drive growth and capital formation.

The trick the chinese communist party has played is to embrace capitalism, but to do so in such a way that it fills the state coffers to overflowing so that the chinese communst party can simply buy up the infrastructure of the capitalist world, whilst leaving them in the paramount postition of power, above the dirrty world of commerce.

At some point China will be able to flex the world's economy and force out the non-chinese capitalist elements to restructure the economic system into the format they need to shift consumption away from the trully capitalist world back into the chinese population, removing massive amounts of consumption from the west to the east - and end the capitalist era forever.

Why doesn't the west move to stop this?

The answer is that those in power are on the gravy train - they see that this is a long game - maybe two or three generations until it bites - in the meanwhile they and their fellow free marketeers are making serious money out of manufacturing in China and selling in the west - so will be long dead before it comes home to roost.

As with the libertarian right who despise democracy, the communists reject populism, but they make common cause in arguing for free trade because it serves their longterm goal. A totalitartian economy is not a liberal society - it drives the masses in the direction of production and massive extraction of Marx's concept of "surplus value" the gap between what chinese workers are paid and the selling price of their goods in the western world. This surplus value gives China serious buying power, which it is using to effectively go what the British Labour Party failed to do - nationalise - or would that be "socialise" - the commanding heights of the WORLD economy.

There is no influence on China from the left in the developed economies -this will be a communist politicial paradigm borne outside the west, seeing the west as decadent, greedy and ripe of reigning in in terms of its standard of living, consumption and economic model.

We used to worry about "reds under the beds" we used to equate leftie politicians with the international communist conspiracy%2

8.
At 21:30 23rd Jan 2012, words2say wrote:


If controls are taken of social rentals, which happened, I think, in the 80s, and if rents rise almost to private rents and in response to the housing market which also happened, then more people rent out houses, naturally.

++

You would appear to be confusing two different issues - one is govt housing benefit law and the other is the law of housing e.g. control of the private rented housing sector.

Until the Labour Govt's 1967 Rent Act was reformed with e.g Assured Shorthold Tenure reforms (1990's) - there was a massive affordable housing shortage as private Landlords were reluctant to rent out their properties at low rentals controlled by statute and as being unable to recover vacant possession of the property.

The current housing welfare reforms are already starting to show reduction in rental value levels as BTL Landlords cannot rely on stupidly high rental incomes being paid for housing benefit occupiers & which has created a modern version of 'Rachman-ism' i.e. the notion of the greedy idle landlords raking in stupidly high rents paid by incompetent local authorities for housing benefit occupants.

Lower rents in the private rented housing sector is very much to be welcomed by all but the greedy landlords and bankers who have leant our money to them - so that the greedy parasites can 'buy to let'.

Much talk at the moment about bad capitalism - but very often - the best solutions are market driven e.g removing housing benefit subsidies to reduce rent levels to the benefit of all those who pay rent in the private sector as including those who are not receiving housing benefit.

The question is how many more positive market solutions can the govt identify & apply?

Reform of housing benefit subsidies & rental over-payments to the 'parasite landlord sector' is long over-due

Outstanding interview by Jeremy with Vince Cable. Since RBS is a taxpayers owned company, surely the government should regulate all the RBS workers pay (at each grade)? The government regulate all their own workers pay, so why is it different for RBS?

Margot James is spot on.

Unlike Britain, China actually teaches its people history.

IN THE AGE OF PERVERSITY - BRITAIN IS A NATURAL LEADER (#2)

"how can china or russia be allowed to buy uk gas and water infrastructure if we can't buy theirs?"

Nuff sed

There is something grotesque about such a small country concentrating so much business and economic activity in one corner of its landmass. No wonder parts of the country have empty property or houses used as second or third homes while houses in other parts are desperately short. In any case some areas where housing is short do not wish for more housing, particularly lower priced property to spoil their environment. We humans are individually a ravel of opposing desires and opinions.

Fascinating report by Jeremy on China tonight. Outstanding :o)

BUT THE WORLD NEEDS WISDOM NOT CLEVERNESS (#3)

"Someone clever on here has explained it many times (i.e. free-market anarchists vs. statists aka international socialists [cosmopolitans] vs national socialists)."

Cleverness is always "brand new and outstanding" - wisdom is "seldom noticed".

Continued

We used to worry about "reds under the beds" we used to equate leftie politicians with the international communist conspiracy - the reality now is that the free trade Right is going cap in hand th Bejing begging for even more chinese influence in the west through trade & investment.

We're being sold down the river whichever way you look at it.

The worst curse in chinese culte you can give is "may you live an interesting life" - the perfect life is a quiet, unchanging one of sufficiency.

Life in the west is getting more "interesting" by the day.

WELL DONE NN AND JP FOR GETTING A CHINESE PERSPECTIVE ON THE PROGRAMME AT LAST!

The problem with Bishops who pushed their weight against the benefit cap is they have never produced a product nor provided a service (they are mustard at giving sermons mind) and therefore never worked hard nor pay taxes, so they don't know how the average tax payer feels on this matter (and they're all Marxist) The rest of us are horrified at the levels of benefits paid out, housing benefit alone has always been regarded as a racket for greedy landlords for years. This benefit culture and lifestyle has to change.

The bible says 'spare the rod and spoil the child'..well that applies to adults. For too long we've had a safety net that has created a new generation of feckless, lazy and non-resourceful due to the generous benefit system, its hardwired so deep you can see it under an electron microscope; the something for nothing DNA sequence has evolved, and its stressing the rest of us. Can I suggest that some on benefits -not all, obviously - are not alone in living on easy street. Those in the Church have been doing it for years, so should be barred from voting on anything important as how other peoples money is managed and spent.

And just in case you may think I'm anti-religious, You'd be right. I may not subscribe to any church -regardless of my Catholic indoctrination. I can walk into a room and lift the spirits of the most down hearted, and bring joy into their hearts with love that has no church..its universal love that is simple to apply. No old books, no ritual..just love. And a few jokes.

More importantly....well done ''brown-dog" for suggesting to NN (ad infinitum) that the Chinese perspective be (at last) presented.

IMHO - I just can't help thinking though that it has only been precipitated by the UK's desperate need for Chinese cash.

SOMETHING GROTESQUE (#16)

Westminster governance has proceeded under a series of defining Prime Ministers.
The current one has trumpeted his PERVERSITY, over and over, yet remains in office.

ALL THAT IS NEEDED FOR GROTESQUE EVIL TO TRIUMPH IS THAT GOOD MEN DO NOTHING.

D'ACCORD (#19)

OF BEDS (cleverness in action)


As the Oyster yields a pearl
man invents.
Neither realises their fecundity
is rooted in irritation:
of one - the body
of the other - the mind.
Man kills the oyster
for its pearl.
And kills his own World
for that eureka moment of invention.

What a breath of fresh air the Chinese Ambassador was on NN tonight.

Honesty
Integrity
Intelligence
Wisdom
Humility

These are words not often used to describe a NN guest (as well as the presenter on this occasion).

HOW CAN YOU TELL WHEN A DIPLOMAT IS BEING ANYTHING SPECIFIC? (#25)

Aren't they hired for the ability to say, UNDETECTABLY, what needs to be heard?

Check out this story by the Telegraph鈥檚 Ambrose Evans-Pritchard.



It follows neatly on from the Paul Mason piece a couple of weeks ago re central banks.

It mentions things like the M3 money supply etc鈥ut terms like these are just shorthand (to bamboozle?) for one part of monetary policy - i.e. the velocity of money creation etc.

Look up the terms you don鈥檛 understand, they鈥檙e all on Wikipedia.

The BoE (the UK鈥檚 central bank) is/was supposed to be independent of the government, but in reality it isn鈥檛/wasn鈥檛.


We really are in deep doo-doo!

World Peace Is Hanging By A Thread


by Fidel Castro

22.
At 23:24 23rd Jan 2012, museV wrote:


More importantly....well done ''brown-dog" for suggesting to NN (ad infinitum) that the Chinese perspective be (at last) presented.

IMHO - I just can't help thinking though that it has only been precipitated by the UK's desperate need for Chinese cash.

++

Not much left for the Chinese to buy is there?
Apart from North Sea oil fields?
No value in EU overfished Scottish fisheries?

Chinese & others have us, in the UK, right where they want us - on the loser's end of their export supply chains - that is why our utilities are expensive & some software & other items most expensive in UK in entire world as leveraged by import export parasite supply chain 'middle-men' opertaing from their own foreign protectionist bases and UK non dom protected tax status.

Chinese not able to buy any more as nothing else worth buying up in UK at moment - hence Chinese investment money apart from price escalation utilities cannot find any further exploitative opportunities - so this nonsense about attracting large scale foreign investment to the UK is nonsense unless like Toyota/Nissan to produce autos in EU to avoid possible future higher EU import tariffs.

JP did not ask any questions on Tibet? Nice move JP no need to spoil your Chinese jolly

Chinese are a still a major future threat to world stability - have frustrated world peace for 50 years with e.g Korean war and Vietnam - their communist regime is more than capable of immense international mischief?

Foolish of anyone at 大象传媒 to think otherwise - irrespective of clever words from their Ambassador - but we can learn a lot from Chinese in terms of getting things done in their own economy?

Only the 大象传媒 could foster the notion of the benign, friendly, communist dictator!

I ALWAYS TREAT THE PREFIX: "INDEPENDENT" TO THE SIR HUMPHRY LOGIC

If you feel driven to keep affirming something as independent, it isn't.

The Westminster Ethos is one of devious manipulation, and contempt for the people. Why would they set up anything INDEPENDENT?

The USSR used to, ad nauseam, prefix their union with "peace loving people's republic of"

Nuff sed.

28.
At 23:58 23rd Jan 2012, museV wrote:


World Peace Is Hanging By A Thread


by Fidel Castro
++

Interersting link that - I noted the following:-

"I support the opinion, undoubtedly shared by all those with a basic sense of responsibility, that no country big or small has the right to possess nuclear weapons."

++

Perhaps Castro has never heard of the Cuban missile crisis?

We know why Castro thinks this way about nuclear weapons - he's got the USA keeping a very big eye on him? I sleep a lot better because of that

25

couldn't have asked him about tibet or releasing the panchen lama then? might of seen a different 'face'?

the chinese 'voice' is manifest in our trend of poverty. But then someone with a plan even if its a bad plan will outwit those who have none [except the utopian mantra of leaving it to 'market forces' to sort out]. When others have tied up all the capital, the commodities and production where will be market forces then? in War? or in acceptance of slavery?

our political class are being outwitted by a very obvious plan of imperialism. which means they are either incompetent or they have become 'useful idiots' being used like a drug mule to 'deliver the goods'.

'Tonight we look at the plight of squeezed low to middle income earners against the backdrop of a warning that they will not see their disposable income approach pre-recession levels until 2020 at best'

Interesting to note the use of 'they' with what is usually an all-inclusive mindset chez Aunty, where 拢35k indeed is beyond comprehension as a working family pre-tax income.

Now, who is 'the Resolution Foundation' one wonders ('The Resolution Foundation is an independent research and policy organisation*), a 'living wage charity' that enjoys a Savile Row base, so seamlessly quoted by the 大象传媒, along with the PR mantra of who again...?



The 大象传媒 seems to see fit in not supplying much context.

*30. At 00:23 24th Jan 2012, barriesingleton wrote:
I ALWAYS TREAT THE PREFIX: "INDEPENDENT" TO THE SIR HUMPHRY LOGIC

If you feel driven to keep affirming something as independent, it isn't.

Same goes for 'most trusted', 'genetically impartial', etc. For a laugh on these, check out most 'The Editors' threads. But a caution, they seldom end well. Then close.

29

You obviously didn't pay attention to Jeremy's article; it said that more Rolls Royces were sold in China last year than any other country in the world 鈥� correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Rolls Royce a British brand? Not to mention the vast number of Chinese students who come to study in the UK every year, which contribute substantially to the UK economy not just in the education sector, but retail, transport, housing etc. Did you see the trade balance chart for China versus the world? For someone who claimed to have studied economics for 35 years, I don't think you need my help interpreting the chart, which tells a very different story from the conventional wisdom about the notorious trade imbalances. And if cheap price were the only factor in consumer's decision, why is China consistently a net importer of Japanese manufacturing goods? Given that the Chinese society is getting richer, I can only see the current trend continuing, since the majority of the Chinese people actually prefer luxurious foreign imports to cheap domestic produce when they go shopping, especially on large ticket items (i.e. high end products). Germany is a good example too. I don鈥檛 see why UK can鈥檛 do the same.

"JP did not ask any questions on Tibet? 鈥�

So we are talking about the sovereignty of Tibet again, are we? The Tibet angle on any western programmes about China is almost as predictable as ministers in hot water appearing on Andrew Marr to plead their cases. By the way, how is the Falkland Islands working out for you? While David Cameron and the three main parties have to tiptoe around legal technicalities to stop Scotland from leaving the union, I have to admit this is actually the one convenience for being a dictatorship (public denouncement and alienation aside); my advice to the Chinese communist party is to just cash in the prejudice and flat out say that Tibet is here to stay.

1

鈥淕iven the world economy is a zero sum game if china is getting rich who is getting poor? Maybe the title of JP piece should be 'Love of your Money'.鈥�

Finance is a zero sum game; economy isn't. Finance is only a part of the economy and preferably a balanced part. Globalisation and free trade movements are not 100% positive, but if you want to switch to protectionism as a result, please refer to the great depression in the 1930s.

@ mademoiselle_h - #34 - Rolls Royce is a German Company. Hasn't been British for a while.

:p Now that Iran's oil has been banned from entering the EU


one of the UK's biggest oil refineries has gone bust. Higher petrol prices/transport costs/inflation anyone?

'So we are talking about the sovereignty of Tibet again, are we? ... By the way, how is the Falkland Islands working out for you?'

Always intrigued at 'who's who' in the 'them & us stakes if, in this case, who 'you' is?

Then one might get to the conflation of the Falklands (population happy, last one looked, with current government, back almost two centuries) with Tibet (not so much, back a few decades).

35

..switch to protectionism..

we need to switch to a level playing field. otherwise its not a market.

why is it 10 yuan to 拢1? why are their markets closed and they put on tariffs? no lectures on protectionism from china thanks.

the uk is being outwitted by those with a plan.

34

Rolls Royce a British brand?

it collapsed in 1971

nationalised then sold off to BMW

very British.

#'s 36 and 40

Rolls Royce cars were sold off to BMW a while back whereas Rolls Royce Aero engines is still British and is still quoted on the LSE.

/news/business/market_data/shares/3/87130/one_month.stm

The Aero engine business was by far the largest part of RR even before the selling off of the car division.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

41

so JP was talking about more aero engines were sold than anywhere else?

Europe at war with Iran



By Pepe Escobar

鈥淣o one ever lost money betting on the foolishness of European Union (EU) politicos. And if you are an oil trader, rejoice - all the way to the bank; as expected, EU foreign ministers - meekly following the Barack Obama administration - have given a green light for a full Iranian oil embargo.鈥�

My #42 again (abbreviated)

Another Blow To Media Freedom: British Regulators Pull Press TV


#43

Yes!

Halliburton profits jump by 50%
/news/business-16687954


Business in the ME is doing just swell.

鈥淥ur US Gov鈥檛 knocks 鈥榚m down and we go in and build 鈥榚m up again!鈥�

The Great Pay Robbery


By George Monbiot

30. At 00:23 24th Jan 2012, barriesingleton wrote:
I ALWAYS TREAT THE PREFIX: "INDEPENDENT" TO THE SIR HUMPHRY LOGIC

The Resolution Foundation and Gavin Kelly - - Was it mentioned that the independence of this 'expert' outfit seeded into the 'report' might be better viewed on the basis is that he has an interesting CV? Independently speaking, that is.

Maybe David Grossman didn't think it germane to who thinks what, especially about what the viewing public should think.

Luckily, when one speaks for folk, it appears you can be quite selective what you ask of or tell them in doing so. Not sure in a good way.

I'd have preferred a few more Vox Pops from the good folk of ASDA having been confronted by some of the numbers, but of course even these have to run the gauntlet of the filter in the edit suite too. Best to get the opinions of bishops, never mind who didn't vote for them either.

At least in chess, you still can see all the pieces on the board without an editor 'sparing' you worrying your silly head with context by hiding some of them.

Not sure what a hill of beans amounts to, but that's what we have ended up with.

There are those who make those beans.

Then there are those who count them.

So others, on good beans, perks, holidays and pensions can take some away to give to other folk who don't make beans but do stuff all bean makers need and most appreciate, plus to those who administer the process, think about it lots, count them of course and.. in some unique cases.. 'report' on it all.

And then there are the beans from the pile that need to be given to the folk who don't make beans, but need them anyway, even though they don't do much else either. Now, in a compassionate society there are very good and valid... and accepted reasons to give folk one's beans if, through no fault of their own, they are deserving.

However, there may be a point where, if the bean takers take too many beans for themselves and their chums and the deserving and, especially... the maybe not so deserving.. there will be no more beans to take.

That's when beans turn to peanuts. And all have been dragged down to the same level of beanlessness.

That would be bad. But all those not in the previous business of making beans might then either need to learn that craft, or at least come to appreciate their relationship with those who do.

Now, as a modest bean maker, I share a certain disquiet at the excessive beano some do seem to garner, undeserved. And if they make them by taking my beans to do so for little return or to cover errors I will object. But if their bean making and my bean making don't interfere with each other, then honestly I have other priorities over envy.

But if some of my beans are going to folk so they end up with a lot more beans than me simply for lifestyle preferential reasons (location, family sizes, etc), then I do fear I will take an interest.

Especially if those who get my beans to talk about my beans think I should just leave them to it. Especially any wearing suits, frocks and sitting across microphones from each other.

BEANZ MEANZ PRIZES (#49)

Priceless post Junkk. You win the 'OntheTurn' Prize. Collect your ceramic Blogdog on the way out.

Nuff sed

29 nautonier wrote:

鈥淐hinese are a still a major future threat to world stability - have frustrated world peace for 50 years with e.g Korean war and Vietnam - their communist regime is more than capable of immense international mischief?鈥�

You really do have a skewed view of history, or do you just make it up as you go along?


鈥淎 rapid UN counter-offensive then drove the North Koreans past the 38th Parallel and almost to the Yalu River, and the People's Republic of China (PRC) entered the war on the side of the North.[9]鈥�

"Yalu" literally means "Duck Green", but the characters were chosen to phonetically approximate the original Manchu word "Yalu", which means "the boundary between two countries".[citation needed] The Korean name is the Korean pronunciation of the Chinese characters.

So China only joined the war when the US and its allies were right on the Chinese border.


鈥淭he North Vietnamese government and Viet Cong viewed the conflict as a colonial war, fought initially against France, backed by the U.S., and later against South Vietnam, which it regarded as a U.S. puppet state.[27]
Lyndon B. Johnson (LBJ), as he took over the presidency after the death of Kennedy, initially did not consider Vietnam a priority and was more concerned with his "Great Society" and progressive social programs.
On 24 November 1963, Johnson said, "the battle against communism... must be joined... with strength and determination."[137]鈥�


China supported North Vietnam during the war, but did not take part in the war directly.

wow that's a first Jeremy on Friday and Monday...tell me the last time that happened. good NN though, about the Falklands...would we be outraged if the Argentinians made a 'claim' on the Isle of Man? ....and would we wage war on it? The Chines own half of America, most of Park Lane and sell us most of our stuff, Marx did win it after all though he borrowed capitalism to do it....pip pip....

FALKLANDS - ISLE of MAN COMPARISON????????????????????? (#52)

If we are going to get aeriated: lets consider the Chagos Islands. We honourable British did that TO the INDIGENES. In the Falklands we did what we did, FOR the 'indigenes'.

As a nation, we are unspeakably hypocritical, and corrupt beyond measure. Oh - and led by the sort of individuals who deal daily in such currency, without demur.

THIS IS THE AGE OF PERVERSITY - DISMANTLE WESTMINSTER

51.
At 16:08 24th Jan 2012, museV wrote:


29 nautonier wrote:

鈥淐hinese are a still a major future threat to world stability - have frustrated world peace for 50 years with e.g Korean war and Vietnam - their communist regime is more than capable of immense international mischief?鈥�

You really do have a skewed view of history, or do you just make it up as you go along?

++

I have personal friends and relatives who fought in these wars - much/most of the communist finance, weapons, millitary intelligence etc etc - came from ?

I would not expect you to know anything about that - try doing some research before posting?

History. Learning from. Doom. Repetition. And outrage du jour.

'52. At 16:09 24th Jan 2012, stevie - would we be outraged if the Argentinians made a 'claim' on the Isle of Man? ....and would we wage war on it?'

An interesting further conflation.

The answer... probably.

But there may also be a few quirks that need probably need to be to ironed out first.

For example, knocking back a couple of centuries to a rather different geo-political age.

Then having a dust up between one colonial power and another, with a few spoils divvied up here and there based on 'to the winner' rules.

With no one else kicking up much of a fuss.

There not being too much of anything or anyone lurking around the Isle of Man anyway.

Followed by an influx of Argentinian, Spanish-speaking folk to form the developing core of a significant national population demographic that will expand in size, and loyalty to the home country over the succeeding centuries.

Then, as a cynical political ploy to distract from stuffed up domestic policies, the UK pols, now run by a military junta (somehow), would need to pop over a rag-tag if large force of conscripts to 'invade' our Manx affront to national pride, despite global condemnation (except a few of the usual, plus the 大象传媒, who like to advise on bomb fuse settings to 'help').

Get those ducks in a row, and you may well be close to an analogy.

Otherwise, possibly, not.

Though looking at one para above, swap the Isle of Man for Bradford (or, soon, London) and Argentina with a few 3rd world options, and there may be a case developing.

'At the third stroke, it will be half past zen'.

54. At 17:23 24th Jan 2012, nautonier wrote:
I would not expect you to know anything about that - try doing some research before posting?

Maybe Wikipedia or twitter are still down?

Or some are content to be educated and informed by a source that is, in so mnay ways, 'unique'.

Chinese, communism & wars



Have things really changed?

56. At 18:54 24th Jan 2012, JunkkMale wrote:

Or some are content to be educated and informed by a source that is, in so mnay ways, 'unique'.
>
It is the sheer naievety shown by the apologist 'western approach' of nearly all & sundry towards the continuous threat posed by the communist dictators that is alarming - we don't need them investing in the UK or squeezing us with their supply chains - they are not going to reciprocate to any worthwhile extent & UK govt., 大象传媒 and rest are demonstrating incredible naivety here?

#48 Thanks for looking up that political group Junkk, very very interesting, wish I'd thought to check out this lot.

#49 You had me rolling on the floor, brilliant post, and apt description.

China, naut and Junkk, I think both your posts have a ring of truth, I remember Richard Dimbleby warning us of the chinese growth and power, I daren't say what he said on one Panaroma programme, it was in the days before PC, he knew what they were at.

'59. At 23:36 24th Jan 2012, ecolizzy -
#48 Thanks for looking up that political group Junkk, very very interesting, wish I'd thought to check out this lot.'

Welcome. It is a matter of some concern to me that whatever 'story' I get spun by my national broadcaster on an issue, from 'reporter' stance to invited guests to edit suite overlord influence, it may too often only be half of what is out there.

Hence I tend to check beyond what some think I need to know (and also, evidently, don't). Shame that, beyond the few hundred here, the couple of hundred thousand (more, when carefully selected sound bites are popped on the headline 'news') watching the programme remain limited in what they get educated or informed upon.

Maybe, at least, and annual 'fee' of 拢72/75 would be more appropriate. Though again, to echo Lord Lever, some might object on the basis on not knowing which half they are still being required by law to uniquely fund.

I wouldn't mind the Argies taking the IOM after all they do unspeakable things to the cat population.......