Desolation and delight at the Stade de France (109)
- 14 Oct 07, 04:49 PM
Last night was an education. An illustration of the power of the united collective. A masterclass in ice-cool concentration from England鈥檚 . And the perfect example of the twin imposters at work.
Immediately after the match, I was in the bowels of the Stade de France, in the flash interview area next to the tunnel, waiting to speak to the men of the moment.
Minutes after Wilkinson鈥檚 boot had put an , the players from each side streamed past the door that I was leaning on. The players鈥 emotions in these moments are always extreme, but having spent many an hour loitering in tunnels and outside changing rooms post-match, microphone in hand, I can safely say I have never witnessed anything quite like it.
Sebastien Chabal trudged past, his eyes red with tears, a man broken by the agony of defeat; France鈥檚 giant totem reduced to a shaking mass of confusion and biting disappointment.
The captain Raphael Ibanez, the inspiration behind two staggering wins over the All Blacks at World Cups past and present, disappeared in a blur to the sanctuary of the changing rooms, bearing the faraway look of a man who鈥檇 just lost a close relative. And it was as if someone or something had died. Say what you like about the French, and many English fans do, but this country has lent a zest and enthusiasm to the tournament that will be very hard to match.
After celebrating on the pitch, England鈥檚 players filed back through the tunnel. Josh Lewsey was first, alone, , after his thrilling try in the second minute had lit the fuse. He was hobbling, clearly in pain, but through the grimaces, smiles that would have lit up the Stade de France by themselves.
The rest followed in quick succession. Andy Gomarsall, a pub rugby player on the scrapheap a few short months ago, now a World Cup finalist. He rushed past, embracing every team-mate in his path, heading for a very different changing room. The contrast between the two was stark.
Inside a couple of minutes I had seen both sporting heartache and delirium up close and personal. For me, it鈥檚 one of the beauties of sport - it can strip the emotions bare. But who will be wallowing in the glory next Saturday night?
Alastair Eykyn is a Radio 5 live reporter specialising in rugby union, tennis and hockey. He is covering Ireland at the World Cup and you can see 5 live's full broadcast schedule here.
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You have to feel for the French. Once again they have done the tournament a huge favour by removing the All Blacks, and they have staged a mighty show this year. But it was time for them to step aside. England simply must face SA again. The gods of poetic justice wouldn't have it any other way.
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The agony and the ecstasy, this is what sport is all about ... and last night had it in absolute spades. Great stuff.
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All I can say is bring on South Africa. The Dr who I work with is south african and has not stopped going on about that 36-0 thrashing. Now it's time for revenge and of course World Cup GLORY.
Where better to exact revenge but in the world cup final.
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The agony of defeat is always painful. Goodness knows, we English have had to put up with defeat after defeat over the years, be it the Ashes or the football World Cup. So my heart genuinely goes out to the French over last night's defeat.
But, put aside the bragging, the blustering and boorish bravado (particularly from the Aussies!), this rugby World Cup has been pure pleasure to watch because, in the England team, we have seen some true sportsmanship at work! I, like everybody else, had completely written off England after their terrible performance against South Africa. But, surely, it is a sign of true mettle that a team that was so comprehensively and deservedly ridiculed at the start of the tournament has overcome the odds to defeat the so-called best rugby teams in the world to get to the final?
This is surely what true sportsmanship is all about. As they say, it's not the winning that counts, it's the taking part. England have dug deep and continued to take part and, in doing so, have shown the world what true sport is all about!
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I was, in a way, sorry to see the misery on the faces of the French players who have done themselves proud in this tournament since their shock loss to Argentina.
There is no better thought however to have seen the Australians and All Blacks go out of the tounament. They have, in my opinion, paid the price for their arrogance and overconfidence.
I hope the South Africans DON'T beat Argentina by the way because, the Pumas too, have excelled in WRC07.
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France really do seem cursed to live up to the old belief that they follow a great performance with a poor one. I am deeply delighted that England won, but I have loads of respect for the French side and their fans - and actually feel that the World Cup has done an amazing thing - it has made us English and French fans unite and realise their innate similarities, especially in response to the arrogance of the southern hemisphere sides (notably their coaches and RFUs). I cheered when France beat NZ, and hope that they can win the WC soon - they deserve to.
But I'm also seriously glad its not their turn just yet!! Good luck England!
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The French press and public have been hoping to see an English disintegration right from the start of this World Cup when they were predicting (with a certain 'ardeur') that the English would not live up to their title of World Champions.
The pain of going out of this competition is all the worse for the French because it was at the hands of the English.
How I wish we could have avoided upsetting them so much. But... c'est la vie!
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"There was a non-match ball which got on to the field last night for one of those kicks which is why Jonny rejected it."
"It was pretty straightforward," explained Andrew. "It wasn't a match ball. I've no idea how that came about.
The above is a quote from Rob Andrew, regarding a wrong ball being given to Jonny Wilkinson, during yesterday's semi-final.
Was any French kicker ever offered a ball of this standard during the tournament or do the French and evryone else really hate England so much. What are the IRB going to do about this issue, I would like to know, possibly like many others.
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I only really watch International Rugby but once again I am gripped and proud of the team.
One thing my untrained eye can't help but notice.
Leave out the man with the beard and we go down.
Put Him on and we win!
[Chuter not Farrell!]
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well played on saturday. but still some improvements need to be made if we are going to have a chance of winning the world cup final.
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England had an extra day's rest than their opponents before the semis. They will do so again for the final. This means a lot, and is just another example of the luck required to win a major tournament. Finishing second in the group often works in your favour, peaking at the right time (like every four years!) etc etc. So England have been lucky, but they have made their own luck. Excellent selections and replacements, players peaking and the team gelling at the right time. NZ and Austalia, watch and learn!
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I really like Chuter - and was a bit clueless to why he was dropped in the tournament. He's a far better hooker than Thompson - though it's good to see Reagan on the pitch. Weird how we suddenly seem to have more than one decent player for different positions. What a pain!
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It is tough for the French team and for the whole of France. I for one was delighted when they beat New Zealand (France are our neighbours and I support them as I support the other Northern Hemisphere sides when it does not conflict).
I hope their press doesn't give them too hard a time because that match, although not full of free flowing rugby, was enthralling throughout with both teams laying their bodies on the line. It is hard to imagine a more physical encounter than that and yet is was played in such a sporting manner. A great advert for the game and I would have said that no matter the outcome.
In these games, with little to choose between the opposition, all you can ask is that your side tackles until there is nothing left whilst looking for any opportunity to add the points. Anybody who claims that this isn't rugby and anyone who dreams of length of the pitch tries when the opposition are so evenly matched should probably follow a game with a differently shaped ball.
Passion, courage, graciousness in defeat and magnanimity in victory are what this game is about and whether we win or lose next week I will cheer our boys for giving it their all through the competition and congratulate the victor whoever it may be. Sour grapes have no place in this sport.
Well done France for hosting such a great tournament!
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What a waste of time the post from Leon Mortimer is. Why oh why oh why do some people insist on sharing their opinions here? I for one see no value in interacting with such people and think anyone that posts to these blogs is clearly worthless and has little better to do with their time.
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Did you say Dr Who was South African?
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Blogs are personal and as such are meaningful for the blogger.
If you don't like them stop reading them.
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It seems to me the French win over the All Blacks masked some deficiencies in their play. They were awful and completely one dimensional in the first half of that game, the All Blacks just didn麓t take advantage and paid the price. The French then got carried away with the hype of having beaten the favourites, without analysing the game properly and coming up with a proper game plan for the semi final. They took on England playing in an English way, not a French way, and lost a game they could and should have won. Anyway, congratulations to England, they have every chance now.
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Just back from Paris having treated my body like a nightclub, not like a temple....what an experience...
I have to say how gracious and sporting the French fans were. So magnanimous in defeat, strangers coming up and shaking our hands and congratulating us. And of course, not a hint of trouble from the English fans around the Gare de Nord, partying and singing, late into the night. Rugby again, had the victory.
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I can well understand the distress witnessed among players like Chabal and Ibanez. We all know that the World Cup comes around every four years. If you've not just become a World Chammpion by the age of say 23, you've probably got two more chances before you turn 35 (and are realistically looking at being too old for selection for the third chance in most positions).
Players say they have been preparing for this World Cup for three months. But becoming a World Champion has probably been part of their life dreams for over 20 years.
I don't think those were tears from defeat over 80 minutes. I suspect they may have been tears ahead of another 50 years of knowing they came so close to their dreams, dreams that they can now no longer reach.
The chances to play in a World Cup final comes to so few.
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Leon - Please find another blog to post your miserable ramblings on. Are you french by chance?
As for me I could hardly watch the final ten minutes of the match. But strangely I couldn't take my eyes off it either.
Seeing the French players in tears made me almost feel sorry for them. Then I realised England were in the final and the the sympathy washed away.
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re. Post 12 by Tim
I think you'll find that England and France both played their 录 finals on the same day, last saturday. Admittedly there was a time gap of a few hours between the game, but not enough to merit your conspiracy theory.
All these arrangements are worked out months, even years in advance. Are you suggesting that England "threw" their game against South Africa so as to get into the first semi-final..!!
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My eldest daughter was there. She reckons the atmosphere fantastic and was so impressed with the way the game was played and the teams conducted themselves after the game.
Outside the French supporters went out of their way to come and shake their hand and congratulate them( the English). The boyfriend who took her has never been to a rugby match, he is a rabid Tottenham supporter and was amazed by how gentlemany it all was. Well Done England and all the supporters. You done us well...
We will all be behind you next saturday Go for It....
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It was interesting to see that many of the players just collapsed at the end of the match. I noticed that Jonny Wilkinson made a point of approaching some of the sitting French players to shake hands or acknowledge their disappointment. I would say they ignored him more because they were shell-shocked rather than anything else, Whatever, it was good to see the behaviour - it was all pretty even and a kind (or unkind) bounce and ankle tackle made by a few inches was all that decided the outcome of titanic effort all round.
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Did anyone see Jonny Wilkinson doing a Flintoff and giving the dejected French players a consoling pat on the back? Sportsmanship in spades from our greatest player.
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france were a better team physically but i dont think they knew how good england can play and they underestimated england but 9 out of 10 times the french would win.
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We have seen most of the major games attended by political noteworthies of the particular country playing, showing support for their nation's team. England v. France yesterday was visited by the younger prince, and him keeping a very low profile. It is almost as though our political and civic leaders are ashamed of England and England's national flag - so much for representing us! But then, most of them are Scots so why should they?
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What a win i couldn't watch but my eyes were glued to the tele. Chabal did not make any impact on the game which helped us a lot. The 21st Century Astrix is not a brilliant player he is just a fantastic runner on the ball. Well done boys bring on the final!!!
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I can't help but agree with Leon Mortimer - what was the point of Alastair's article? All it said was 'French players were disappointed after losing ...' Big deal, I could have said that without spending years lurking about in tunnels !
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All this "hate" business can get out of hand. Lets stick to sporting rivalry.
Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and France were our allies in two great conflicts in the last century, and our servicemen served and in too many cases died alongside each other.
Rugby is about winning, and I shall cheer on our English team in Paris next week, but in the end, all rugby people are our friends.
Now on to retain the cup.
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9 times out of 10 Luke?? So that is why England have beaten France in the only two meetings that mattered this year, not to mention the last World Cup semi too?? Don't follow your logic at all. Matches are played on pitches not paper!
Anyway, congratulations to both teams for a remarkable tournament and, most of all, for the tremendous spirit in which both the game and the final whistle were played. Sportmanship is indeed still alive!!
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To be fair to Leon, he does have a point. It isn't the most interesting piece by Alastair especially as he was in the tunnel with the players and could have given us a bit more to chew on.
It's just an opinion guys.
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mark liversedge'
How right you are. So why are you bothering?
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As an Englishman living in the south west of France, all the guys at the golf club today were agreed that the rosbifs deserved to win and that the French should have played their game and not our's.
There's a lot of resentment against M.Laporte and his choices and his decision to take Lionel Beuxis off even though he was playing well and scoring points. There's even happiness among most of those I've spoke to that the president, sarko, got his cumuppance and couldn't politically cash in on the victory, as he has been doing for the past month. And this from a lof of people who voted for him!
That being said, the little monkeys taped my car shut with red tape, in the style of the English flag. There's still some fun left in them. Let's hope they win the petite finale as they like to call it. And go team England.
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Leon, I would gladly give you a fiver if you promise never to post another comment on 大象传媒 online - yet another person who thinks everything is about you.
As someone who plays a competitive team sport every weekend, I've felt the pain of losing a close match with something at stake. Bad enough to think you've let yourself or your team-mates down - how much worse must it feel to have let your whole country down, and especially when this isn't just a weekend thing - it's your whole life and career. I'd have cried too.
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A good result, we have to thank the French for knocking the Allblacks out of the tournament, I doubt whether we would have pulled a win off against the Allblacks.
Lets hope England can go all the way!!
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after all the celebrations and hangovers and the cold light of day reappeares,the truth is England have NO chance againest the Saffers,believe me I hope they(England) win,but its my head not my heart that says no way ,2 BIG wins ,a third maybe a bridge too far,anyway good luck on Saturday,I will be following the game on text in Alaska...oh for tv coveridge up here
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I felt sorry for the french old guard especially fabien polous and rafael ibenez because they did so well to beat the NZ team i the quarters. But i think they had a massive lack of invention and michealak had one of his off nights which unfortunately seem to happen all to often on the big occasion.
come on england!
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Frenchman talking: I love rugby and its noble culture. To me there were 4 key moments yesterday:
1/ Try on 78th second: a gift taken
2/ Jonny's drop goal: the coffin was sealed
3/ THAT tackle on Clerc that stooped him from scoring this certain try: c'est la vie!
4/ Damien Traille, 10 mins from the end, didn't find touch with his kick and the ball went straight into English arms: I knew points were coming, I just knew it!
I have a SA friend and can only support his country in the final, but England have distinguished themselves by an unlikely comeback. I live here so should be more supportive of British teams, but it takes a lot of philosophying to overcome that crappymediatic Agincourt dished out day-day out. Well done England: it would be great that a NE team retain the title for the 1st time.
As for me, a great time with my family today took the pain away and highlighted the futilities of sports wins and losses. A great sport though!
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With england winning today its and awful day for rugby its ruined the world cup!
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What a game of endless ebb and flow.Two teams prepared to give everything. As a football follower each clash of titans made me smile at the pathetic claims for injury by overpaid, preening, lightweight footballers.
The tackle by Wilkinson on Chabal epitomised all that was great and was predicted in my ode to Sebastian Chabal which can be found at
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well said X...it's all there...
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this english team is without a doubt the worse team ever to make a world cup final. they've beaten an average auz team, a french team who had their final against the all blacks, and now their one game away from winning the world cup twice in four years. there is no justice
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mac durrant - it was satire. duh.
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Englishman in the US writing (makes it difficult following rugby I must say!)
Just watched the game and I must say another massive effort from the English team (makes you wonder where they've been for the last three years!) Another massive defensive performance from the English, but comiserations are due to the French - to take out New Zealand in such a brave and gutsy performance shows they are no pushovers, and the game was one of the most physical I've seen in a long time. The last five minutes were totally unbearable!
So bring on the final - a game too far perhaps, but great to see England back and fighting again. Keep it up boys!
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OK John, shame to see that racial bigotry is still alive and well in your part of the world. Its a pity that sporting acheivment cannot transcend that poison. The current individuals in the team would apppear to be blameless for any transgressions that may have occured in history so why wish ill of them when they have personally behaved and performed admirably. I am a Kiwi by the way.
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Well, as a disheartened french fan, I must confess that some of the comments above do alleviate some of the pain left by yesterday's game. Thanks very much indeed for those words of comfort.
After a sleepless night, and a day spent wondering what went wrong last evening, I feel we truly did not deserve to win ; we tried to win the english way, that was preposterous and sheer nonsense. We had backs oozing talent, and yet we kept kicking back the ball, how stupid of us. Still, we could have just made it, that tap tackle on Clerc, who was certain to score, will haunt me for a long time.
As an anglophile, I should support England in the final, even more so if they face those arrogant South Africans, but I just love free flowing rugby and I just can't accept that the type of play epitomized yesterday becomes a model in rugby schools.
It's the same as in football, I would like to see Brazil win the world cup every 4 years (well, a french win every 20 years would do me no harm), and yet more often than not Germany or Italy win....
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this must really be one of the worse rwc ever!!
you could not watch the games unless you had cable tv
as to the france england game .
chabal cited!!!!!
well what about the pulling of his hair in a tackle as well and L delaglio extra going off the pitch to provoke the punching from chabal for england to get the penalty. is the irb really behind english rugby and money?
if you are going to use the vieos to cite players then cite them all!!!
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Re; kenehendy,
You must be jealous, or irish or both. Never mind you're time will never come.
Come on England.
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So, South Africa it is then. The 36-0 defeat was extremely painful for every England player and fan but they have to get that out of their heads now. I am desperate to see England go out there and show the boks that they are a whole different team to the one they beat four weeks ago. I have seen my fair share of SA supporters and man, they are really obnoxious. Although after watching the game tonight, I fear for England. Habana seems to me too hot to handle for any opposing team. Come on England, you can do it!
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I think post #13 got it absolutely right. I'd say that the two teams last night were incredibly closely matched. England of course started better but for most of the match, until the last 10 minutes, the French were shading it. However they only really had a sniff of a try once, with that amazing touch from the No.8, and then there was THAT tackle...
The French showed against NZ that even with the current team and tactics they only need the smallest openings to score wonderful tries. The truth is that England didnt let them get those openings and we won.
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Ah, the new moon, time for a new intention and opportunity to reclaim yet another fragmented part of our souls.
Intentions are supported by Spirit, the unseen [to most] host of all that ever can be. Some call it love. England won because the team loves playing TOGETHER. They play as a unit, unified, a heady sweet-scented balm to these times of subscription to the illusion of separation.
On and off the pitch, they are ONE. In the shamanic perspective, what is seen on the outside is but a rough reflection of what glows in the inner world. By God, Englend must currently be top of the Shamanic Spirit League.
To life,
To love
To the shining spirit of togetherness.
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I am french and I want to congratulate the british team. Your players were more realistic than ours, you deserved the victory.
But to be revenged, I will support South Africa.
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Watching the England game as a neutral last night, I must admit the game was tedious. England are killing the game as a spectator sport. Fans come to see tries being scored, not drop goals being kicked. Rules should be changed to only award one point for a drop goal and 2 for a penalty. Thiw would make the game a much better spectacle. How can a drop goal or try ever be exiting to watch - unless you're English. The re-run of JW's winning drop goal in the last world cup isn't exactly exiting to watch (unless you're english), but we get to see it time after time.
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Why are south africa considered to be "arrogant"?
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Your smiles swept my tears ! Fantastic scenario for you. We should learn the lesson : sleeping 4 years, out of the cave at the bell, really well done ! you deserve it !... I want to learn the cricket rules now. Now "Allez les blancs !"
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I have played football, managed a football team and supported football nearly all my life. After taking an interest in international rugby for the past five or six years and going to watch England with a bunch of rugby fans, I am sad to say that football could learn so much from rugby in terms of sportsmanship and the true meaning of team spirit. All the pathetic and petulant behaviour from so many professional footballers is only highlighted by the tremendous performance and sportsmaanship displayed by the players of both teams on Saturday.
The similarity between the two games is that results can still hinge on the bounce of a ball, the ball hitting a post, one crucial tackle, a forward pass etc. However, the difference is that the rugby managers and players are not endlessly blaming the officials for a free kick, corner, throw in, hand ball that was/wasn't etc. If only the football authorities would have the guts to impose some real law and order into the game (it might even rub off on the fans behaviour as well).
Forget Labour or Conservative - the real choice for the future is whether we are going follow the sort of standards set by rugby or continue to spiral down the football drain. Unfortunately, I think I know answer.
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I'm French but I don't know anything about rugby, football is my game...
I always think that beating England is always great in an international tournament (I can remember France-England at Euro2004!) but last night this never happened. So I feel just a bit disappointed. But winners take all and losers get tears...
England got more points than France so they deserve the final. Cheers and go England!
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I just saw South Africa beat Argentina. By a distance. Fellow English folk, be afraid... but not too afraid.
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Hats off to the French for a great battle. I think some of the people commenting here have absolutely no idea what is going on in the minds of every player on every team, going into the semis. They are out there to do their job and get into the big one no matter what. Entertaining the crowd has gone out the window. All pro sport revolves around money, which means winning. But, even the money men don't count in a semi or a final, the only thing that counts is winning. To those of you that think you should be entertained, get with the real world. It's a battle, they don't care how they win as long as they are the victors. We (England) have some big players that come to the show in the big games, tough to play in a neither here nor there game when you've played in World Cup Finals and won. You will see more of the same next week blood, balls and heart. Come on England!
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I cant remember if it was this thread or another where a couple of irish fans pointed out the lesson that was given to England in Dublin.
Well the Welsh also taught us a lesson in Cardiff which, in the circumstances was probably more important. That lesson was that desire and commitment can force your game plan and victory over supposedly superior opposition
And you know what? England finally showed enough humility to learn the lesson, probably finally after the SA game yes, but the transformation has been made. And now we are in the final.
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Its a remarkable achievement, what a dogged pack and a good out half can achieve, this has to be the worst group of players to ever grace a World Cup Final serious lacking in class except for the number 10. It remind of the Greek team in the soccer that won the European Champions. I hope class comes to the surface and SA have their day even though they have had an easy route.
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Its a remarkable achievement, what a dogged pack and a good out half can achieve, this has to be the worst group of players to ever grace a World Cup Final serious lacking in class except for the number 10. It remind of the Greek team in the soccer that won the European Champions. I hope class comes to the surface and SA have their day even though they have had an easy route.
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I can't believe there are people on here still going on about the Aussies and the All Blacks!
Well Done to England for beating the odds and getting to the RWC Final. To me it looks alot like Australia 4 years ago. The Aussies were complete underdogs and were playing terrible Rugby leading up to RWC 2003 and then they made it to the Final against England. So what are the odds on England Winning against the Springboks?
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MW If I want to watch a stream of tries I麓ll watch sevens or league thank you !! Rugby is about fifteen men each playing to their strengths and playing passionately not about seven men running around whilst the other eight watch !! Last night was fascinating because it was soo close and any mistake could have lost the match. Sure reduce the value of the penalty and watch teams killing the ball the moment anyone gets near their line.
If you want to watch rugby at least try to understand what is going on.
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mw you are right in some respect tries are more exiting than drop goals but if the difference between two teams is the 3 point drop goal let it be so. Lets not be naive, the first object is to win the second is not to loose. so, is it better to have played better rugby but have lost than "poor" rugby and won. England in the final against expectations, I don,t think that they should be there because of their form over the past 3 to 4 years but the world cup is over a few games so anything can happen.
Bring on the boks.
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OK it wasn't a great game. But there are more fantastic sights in rugby than the a sweeping back movement. Forward movements are great, and the skill of kicking, too, whether it be for touch or drop goals. And tackling and defence. Teamwork. They all play their part.
Actually I find the up and under tedious, it can turn the game into a juggling match.
You cannot win a game unless you have possession. I believe the skill of the whole game is retaining (and gaining) possession.
Thank you everyone in France for hosting such a fabulous world cup. So many truly exciting games. And a wonderful atmosphere all round. I can feel the spirit, just sitting at home!
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How nice to see "Allez les blancs" - thank you peyo and good luck another time :)
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John,
it's a real shame that you changed the tone of all of the contributors. All were saying what a great sporting event this has been and that rugby be it union or league is a truly great sport, that families can enjoy together. My wife, not a sports lover has been totally enthralled with this competition. It's also a shame that you also forget that it was the England team that went to Ireland to play during the height of the troubles, when others would not go. Rugby was played and England were soundly beaten.
It's been a great competition and it's great to see N. H sides doing so well.
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In ref to comment: 16 wrote by Salmaan Ahmed.
In pages of good or great comments on the English win and French honor in defeat, I have to say in the middle of all these great blogs it is really sad and painful to see a comment as raciest and bigoted as comment # 16. It has NO place in this forum.
This RWC was really a joy to watch. (Even if your/my team did not win or even play as well as expected, every nation that took part should be proud of the manner and the spirits the games were played in). Yes I know in our world today; winning means everything ?? - But, remember it's only the winners (and some tabloids) who continue to say this. Taking part is also a great achievement (just look at proud Portugal). I have to say a comment on the 'All Blacks鈥, Every true rugby fan will know in their hearts (even ozzies;-) the All Blacks are the best rugby team in the world. You may play then ten times and you might only win once if you had a very good day and they played badly? (Well done to them to be continually be the Brazil of Rugby).
As France proved against NZ and England again proved on the day, (and may prove next week) past history means nothing. England did very well and deserved to win on the day. The French nation can be proud of the RWC they staged. The French public came out in mass and gave their full support at every match (big or small alike), really wonderful too see. (TV right is really a different painful subject). As for the final. As much as I love SA style and dare I say their 'French flare'. My loyalties go to the Northern Hemisphere first. So come on England do us all in the NH proud.
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as an Englishman living in NZ,
was'nt Saturday night just bloody
wonderful, wish i could be in Paris next weekend. Go you good thing go!
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An English girl living in NZ.
New Zealand has been in mourning since their loss to France... going so far as to offer a national helpline for those struggling to come to terms with the All Blacks defeat - a tad over the top I think... !!
The All Blacks were supposed winners of the world cup before they had even set off the tarmac.... they didn't rise to the occasion because they didn't think they had to... they were already heralded as the "World Champs" ...
England on the other hand had been written off from the start...big mistake...HUGE mistake
The Rugby World Cup is unlike any other game of rugby...
it's a WORLD CUP...
and countries are going to rise to the occasion and play like they have never played before...and upsets will happen... it makes for compulsive viewing
personally I think there is nothing better than coming into a world cup as under dogs...we English thrive on a challange...and more importantly we rise to it !!!
So South Africa keep telling the world you are going to trounce the English... and if the only supporters England have are the actual English...well that's ok too as to what we lack in numbers we make up for in voice...
I am and will continue to be a very proud Engish girl...
Yours...
A Very Patriotic English Girl
Upsets make for the best games !!
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Again rises the English spirit in the face of adversity. The demoralising whitewash against South Africa was our Dunkirk, and backs-against-the-wall the English are at their pugnacious best.
We shall fight them on the beaches... We shall never surrender. Stirring stuff.
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TAXI INTO TOWN: 拢20
3 LBS OF CHICKEN WINGS: 拢12
10 PINTS OF CARLSBERG: 拢30
SITTING IN AN AUSTRALIAN PUB WATCHING THE ENGLISH BEAT THE FRENCH ON THEIR OWN SOIL: PRICELESS!
SO PROUD OF THE BOYS, SO PROUD OF ENGLAND, SO PROUD OF RUGBY!
COME ON THE BOYS!
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Had to write to agree with a lot of the comments on these discussion boards. In all sports, but particularly a world cup, winning is what counts.
I suspect that the England-France game would not be as enthralling if you didn't have a little patriotic vested interest but the effort and committment were there for all to see from both sides and were a credit to all players involved.
When watching the Aussie game I struggled to understand the Australian tactics. They have ridculed England and in particular our "impotent" back division. But as their front five are being marched backwards the back row are bound with a little finger and contributing nothing.
If they all lend their weight to the scrum then England are forced to try and open the game up a bit and will have 7 backs to take on 7 backs. I suspect that England may well have scored tries if that was the case.
While less obvious, the same suggestion can be made to stopping a rolling maul. If you commit all 8 forwards then you can stop it, without dropping it illegally. It leaves you weak for fringe defence but if England's attack is so one dimensional why not challenge it to produce the goods.
The Australians know the rules before the game starts. It's no secret that the team with the most points wins. They seemed to think it was just on try count, with their approach to the game and their pre and post match attitude, both ARFU soundbites and the Aussie media.
The New Zealand team are ranked number one and are probably the best team in the world, judged overall. But no matter what happens they won't be world champions for at least four more years. I love watching a great length of the field try as much as the next man and found some sections of the Wales-Fiji and SA-Fiji games, for example, hugely enjoyable but in terms of 80 minutes of rugby the past two weekends have been hard to beat!
My head has been saying that losing 1/4 finalists was all we could achieve but my heart never quite gave up hope. Massive respect to all the boys in white. No matter how many points Jonny does or doesn't get this has been a true team/squad effort. Truly inspiring.
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This tournament shows up the flawed nature of the knockout system. England may once again be the "World Champions", but they are certainly not the best team in the world, by a long way. The All Blacks are far better, and more entertaining, but struggle with the weight of expectation. Their country expects them to perform in every test match, not just in the RWC, whereas other teams seem only able to excell occasionly. Perhaps the six nations & tri-nations competitions should be combining and Argentina added. Then we will see who is the real "World Champions".
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Hey 56 - Argentina looked very nervous and made a lot of mistakes and (heaven forbid) tried to play rugby........
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Michael Cosgrove - there is no flaw in the knock-out system; it's simply the rules of the competition. Seem to think that is the case in most major sports? Or doesn't in-your-face logic suit your slanted view on the world? NZ aren't the best team in the world because they haven't got the mental agility to win pressure games. Get over it (again).
Perhaps you should look at the previous world cup winners. They won every game against Southern Hemisphere sides in the 2 years prior to the final. They were ranked no1 going into the tournament and they won it. This year the ABs could have won it - if they were mentally up to the challenge. They weren't. If the pressure from their population is too much then maybe they shoud take a leaf out of Clive Woodward's book and hire a mind coach or something. Or maybe they should (like you) have a bit of humility and realise why they haven't been world champs since mid-1991. BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T GOOD ENOUGH.
This WC has been fantastic: Argentina, Fiji, Tonga, Samoa, nailbiting (if not pretty) QFs and SFs. Rugby is great game played (and supported) by like-minded great people. France (like the Aussies before them) have put on a great show. I live in the US and am bored sensless by the crap sport here; what a breath of fresh air the Rubgy World Cup has been. Thank God for William Webb Ellis.
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Enough has been said recently about the boorish, belligerent antipodeans displaying not a modicum of generosity, decency or sportsmanship in defeat. Forget about them, they're history. But not so the French. 'Entente cordial' has always been hard to locate between the two countries, and following the game on Saturday sour grapes were just as hard to find. Not a peep of winging, slagging the ref, blaming the ball or those 'cheating Englishmen' who triumphed so deservingly. No, a hard game played by hard men all of whose personal standing has risen on both sides of the channel. No scratching and spitting from those front rows! Just honest back breaking endeavour.
Whatever happens next week to England, they will have to play a SA side who too are hard and, if the past few games are an example, are pretty fair. England should respond, and they will, with the same brand of spirit and camaraderie that had obviously grown in the squad. We don't need any support from the Jock's and Boyos, (That certainly includes the occupant of N潞 10 and the Welsh Sec.who always seems to get a ticket big games). All we need is for the boys to continue in the same vein and the fans to turn Paris red and white. That will be enough. What did Rupert Brooke say? 'there's some corner of a foreign field that is forever England'. A victory on Saturday, and that field will be in the middle of Paris. England expects lads and is right behind you.
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Sure the WRC is run by knck-out rules. I don't dispute that - can't really. My contention is that it does not necessarily produce the best team as the winner. A parallel could be drawn with the Premier League & FA Cup's in England. Which winner of these competitions is the better team - overall?
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A lot of very fair play reactions on this forum ... Thanks a lot from a French fan and now, come on England!
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The bitterness from some posters on here is just so funny. You knew the rules of the game and the tournament before it started so quit complaining.
And by the way who other than Fiji has actually played free-flowing running Rugby in the knock-out stages? France kicked more than England, South Africa hit tonnes of up-and-unders in the first half yesterday, Australia were trying to hit drop-goal from the halfway line and NZ employed a relentless (read dull) pick and drive against France.
Sure England don't have much flair but criticising our style of play just reeks of sad bitterness. Noticiably the French have been most sporting in defeat - what great World Cup hosts they've been!
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Well done to France for their contribution to making the game so exciting and sportsmanlike and for a great rugby world cup.
Great performance from our grumpy old men - now lets do the same to SA.
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I'm French, proud of what "les bleus" did; anyway England won because they were more realistic and motivated ... Nothing to add on this match, England was better. So now, sincerely 鈥淎llez les Blancs鈥, and RDV for the next VI nations!
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An article in "Le Monde" said the English invented the "winning ugly" game and the French, since Saturday, the "losing ugly"'s one. Pretty accurate, let us hope that the next coach will build on the traditional qualities and that we will soon appreciate the return of the French flair...
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Wow.
Good games the weekend, but SA sure takes flak from all involved? It reeks of fear in here....
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Totally agree with Henry's comments. Australians have been trying too long to change the game into one they think they can win; the game was enthralling in a way that only knock out competitions can be. Let's stop messing about with the structure of the game and appreciate it for what it is. AND - huge congratulations to the French for the tournament; the atmosphere for the whole of the last 4 weeks but especially Saturday in Paris has been fantastic
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As a South African I must say I am surprised to see how so many English think we are full of ourselves. South Africa has always been a proud sporting nation and for us to be in the world cup final means a lot for rugby in this country. One thing I can say for sure is that the players are by no means arrogant, they back themselves and that is as far as it goes. I hope to see a good match on Saturday and I am sure that the English will give us just that, all credit to them on doing so well thus far. May the best team win!!!
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I'm an Englishman in France and I can say that Rugby has been the winner of this world cup. The French have hosted an amazing tournament and the whole country has been buzzing with rugby. The pride and guts shown by most of the teams and the good-natured fans are inspirational. Anyone who says the England matches were dull I suspect are 'jonny come lately's'. As a lifelong Union fan I love a good forwards battle and nail-biting scramble defence. League and Sevens are all about individuals with side-steps and pitch-length tries; Union is about a whole team and strategy. It's 5-day tests v 20/20 cricket, chess v draughts... It's skill, brains, braun, courage, pride and passion.
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Tim Re Post 12.
I think you will find in RWC history that no team that has finished second in their group has ever won the World Cup.
England winning the final would be a first not only regarding that but also retaining the trophy for the first time.
I'm fairly sure England would have preferred the "easier route" to the final by winning their group instead.
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As an Irishman I would like to congratulate the English rugby team on a fantastic display of guts and determination. They thoroughly deserve to be in the final and I feel they could and should go on to win against SA.
However, I am disappointed in some of the comments I have heard and read about the style used to get England to the final. As far as I鈥檓 concerned this is just petty jealousy from those posters whose teams have not made it as far.
To the Irish, Welsh, Scottish, Australian and New Zealand supporters falling into this category of whiners, I would like you to see the list below. The teams in upper case were the losers of each game and I dare any fan of one of these teams to respond to my post saying the following sentence: 鈥淚 would be unhappy if my team had WON this game by a 14-9 scoreline playing the same quality and style of rugby as England did against France鈥:
IRELAND vs France (Pool)
WALES vs Fiji (Quarter Final)
SCOTLAND vs Argentina (Quarter Final)
AUSTRALIA vs England (Quarter Final)
NEW ZEALAND vs France (Quarter Final)
Any takers? Thought not. Any losing fan would have been DELIGHTED to have won the game in the same fashion and by the same score, rather then swallow an ignominious dumping out of the RWC. Those people simply have to get used to the idea that however unpalatable it is for them to accept, ENGLAND are in the final due to their skills and determination, rather than their team. As one posted suggested earlier, all of England and France was totally and utterly rapt watching the semi-final game (As was this Irishman) and as it was their semi-final, I think they鈥檇 be quite right not to give a damn what anyone else thinks.
You will notice that France do not figure in my comment. Well, the truth is 鈥 although I鈥檓 no great fan of French rugby 鈥 I felt the players and fans carried themselves with pride and dignity and showed a great deal of magnanimity towards the English after the game. I鈥檓 sure they would have been very happy to have beaten England 14-9, as would the Saffers if that were to be the score next Saturday.
England could be World Champions again in less than a week. If that鈥檚 the case, some people will just have to get used to it. Even if England don鈥檛 win, personally I think they have more guts, skill and courage than they have been given credit for.
So whiners, whine away. But don鈥檛 whine to me because I will just laugh in your face and tell you exactly what you are.
Go England.
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To Craig re post 87.
Unfortunately, I think many English people may have regarded South Africa as arrogant, following Francois Pienaar's ill-advised comments in the pre-match build up for the first England vs South Africa clash during the pool stages.
As I recall, Pienaar rather boorishly said that whoever lost that match "might as well pack up and go home". At the time, England was being written off universally following a poor performance against the USA and, as such, was an incredibly arrogant thing to say.
If South Africa are now re-assessing England's chances of winning the world cup in a more sober light, then that is welcome!
May the best team win next weekend!
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The whole World Cup has been great- teams, supporters and above all the hosting country. Congratulations to everyone involved. I don't understand why the Boks are considered particularly arrogant. They seem perfectly OK to me and more to the point great rugby players. Also, who was that man with the cornet at the Argentina-SA match last night? Can we have him at the final please! Best of luck England - I shall be watching the Final - through my fingers!!!
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The SPRINGBOKS WILL dominate up front and in the Air...
Wilkinson may be a fantastic kicker but how could 6 kicks beat 6 tries??
SA to win 24-9 (give Wilkie 3 out of 8 for arguments sake)
:)
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The French have been magnificent hosts this tournament and I'm sorry to see them go. I have been back and forth to France many times for this cup from Lens to Paris and they have been unquestionably welcoming, kind and friendly. Actually just the opposite to what I was expecting and of the image us English have built of them. I've seen the French turning up in waves to support adopted teams, even buying their shirts and singing like it's France playing! I leave this world cup with memories of a passionate, fun loving country who have really got behind the tournament. Thank you France you have made my depleted bank balance worth it!
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You know me. I'm the guy watching the match in the pub who's clearly had a few too many and has lost his voice screaming at the big screen - normally 'helpful' comments aimed at the referee. When the game's on nothing else matters, it's us against them and no prisoners are taken. But that's the game. It should matter and you should get wound up about it - but that's as far as it goes. What concerns me about this RWC is the vitriol and bile espoused by supposedly intelligent rugby fans. Personal insults, appalling stereotypes and sometimes just downright offensive language. Kiwis, Saffas, Aussies and Brits - all equally at fault and I'm sorry lads but that's just not rugby. Did any of you ever play the game? One of the great joys of the sport is the ability to leave that out on the pitch. You knock seven bells out of each other on the park and then go put the world to rights in the bar. Where the hell has this 'non-rugby' attitude come from? I think some of you boys are just jumping on the band-wagon - well maybe you should b*gger off back to football!
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Can I have a pint of whatever Dave M (#51) is on! Perhaps he should take a little water with it next time...
Just want to echo some of the other comments - well done, mes amis, for a fantastic tournoi, although if you could have sorted out the 'beer' in the stadiums it would have been appreciated. It's just a shame it will be over by this time next week - and I'd be saying that even if England hadn't made it this far.
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Hats off to the French supporters! Everywhere we went in Paris after the match, the French congratulated us and were very gracious in defeat despite their huge disappointment. Vive la France!
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Its amzing how all you Poms have such a hang-up about the All Blacks (and to a lesser degree, the Aussies). So many comments here make a mention of them! Your Stephen Jones alleges that arrogance was the AB's downfall (unsubstantiated of course) yet I suggest you have a look over the postings on this site - is this the kind of arrogance you bemoan? Oh and what is with your Will Greenwood - a SA v Argentian game with Greenwood confusing commentating with continually talking about the English game. Get rid of this fool! And save your bragging until Saturday night - there will be no prize for second, you may as well have come last. Come on the Boks, so I can at least go to slepp with a smile on my face on Saturday night.
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To Chris (post 91)
I hope you are not calling Francois Pienaar arrogant. As a South African, I started getting concerned that he seemed to be supporting the Argentinians last night, given how objective he was, esp compared to some of the other commentators, (such as some of the English ones) who are incredibly one eyed!
As for calling the South Africans arrogant, everyone seems to be forgetting the post match comments by the South African captain last night. Look them up and read them before making cooments about being arrogant.
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I'm puzzled at the surprise people are expressing at the friendliness and sportsmanship of the French fans. From years of supporting Bath in Heineken & challenge cup matches, I would have been amazed were there any bad feeling. Our experiences have always been: great sportsmanship, friendship, hospitality and oodles of booze.
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To Michael Cosgrave #79
Sometimes winning is down to a little bit of luck, holding your nerve and giving evrything you've got
And as for the comments on the premier league. man Utd won it last year, they scored most goals, conceded least goals and played the best football. Furthermore, towards the end of the season they were beseiged with injury and I beleive that this was because of the team spirit. That is something that you can't buy, as Chelsea found
Knock out rules make for exciting competitions, the bauty of the FA cup is that there may be an upset. If there was no chance of that then how boring would sport be?
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I'm more puzzled at JW being called a sharp shooter. OK he got the key penalty and drop goal, but missed 3 (or 4) other penalties, a drop goal and host of other kicks. He'll to sharpen up before next week i think.
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I was told on saturday that the french played it all wrong etc my answer at the time was DONT CARE. Still dont we are in the final against SA. Nerves are starting to fray,but i refuse to join in with the hubris game on for next weekend .
Congratulations to SA see you saturday.
COMMISERATIONS to France brilliant tournament also Argentina worthy participants you should be proud of
your teams and the way you dealt with defeat.
I hope the final is good and whatever the score we behave with as much dignity.
Gentlemen let battle commence.
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Shane, get over it. How many times have I read a Kiwi supporter bemoaning the 'fact' that 'the best team did not win' etc? Is that not arrogance? Their fans have been saying, since day one, that they will win. There is a difference between confidence and arrogance. The ABs are a fantastic team, with excellent running rugby, but they resorted to so-called 'English' tactics in the last 20 mins vs France. They do seem to fold under pressure (France twice, and your lot once, last time around). The Aussie-Pommie rivalry has always been there. Aussies say we are stuck up and arrogant. We say you are cocky and arrogant. It's all part of the banter. Credit to France for a dogged fight, and graciousness in defeat. And credit to them for a great RWC. One more game to go (apart from the 3vs4 play-off). The Boks will be facing a totally different team now. Gone is the uncertainty and rustiness of the early games. Now we will see a proper, passionate game of rugby. It's not all about the backs and end-to-end rugby. It's a XV vs XV game, and it is game on!
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As an erstwhile resident of both Australia and sub-Saharan Africa (not South Africa) my allegency has been somewhat chaotic. Since the sad failure of Ireland to perform I have watched the semi-finals on TV with no great feeling towards any of the sides (some of my best friends are English!).
But, for goodness sake, don't let Will Greenwood commentate on the final. He spoiled a thoroughly entertaining semi yesterday.
Don Lavelle
Ballyclare
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World Cups are won and lost in seconds, in 2003 England were worthy favourites as they had beaten everyone, yet still a below par Aussie side came within seconds, inches or whatever of winning the RWC. England have been poor over the past few years, (understatement I think!!!!!) what they have is a spirit that may, just may take them to the biggest prize of them all. If not then they have done themselves proud. It is only they who can wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and say that they gave it the best they could.... We can judge, comment etc as we have that right as supporters, players etc.... But it is they guys out there who are doing the business, 36 nil will hurt forever, it will never be forgotten but they have made up for that with grit. They had some luck, there was some brilliant play, real character. Lets get behind England as a nation whatever sport we are playing and bring back some pride. Lets see the South African Nation unite behind the warriors playing for them, Sport can unite nations, 80 minutes from immortality... God I wish I had been good enough!!!!!
Good luck to France in the 3rd / 4th also same to Argentina, they have added to a great spectacle....
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Well that was a lot to take in, I been reading all day how arrogant SA are along with the rest of the SH teams, and would like to state that there's a difference between confidence and arrogance. SA is a rugby nation built on pride and respect, and lets face it in rugby now days you have to be confident, so please STOP confusing this with arrogance.
Go Springboks!!
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Well that was a lot to take in, I been reading all day how arrogant SA are along with the rest of the SH teams, and would like to state that there's a difference between confidence and arrogance. SA is a rugby nation built on pride and respect, and lets face it in rugby now days you have to be confident, so please STOP confusing this with arrogance.
Go Springboks!!
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I am French and I still feel sad about our loss but I want England to know that I am proud of our players and that they have given us a lot of pleasure during this competition. These last few months, they have carried the nation as a whole on their shoulders and they have given us a sense of faith and unity; now it is our turn to give them the faith to carry on as I am sure they will. Good luck to you England, a second title is close at hand, until we meet again to see a blue victory!
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