Back to earth with a bump
- 11 Feb 07, 09:30 AM
Twickenham - What a difference a week makes.
Last weekend, England fans were celebrating the comfortable win over Scotland and revelling in a much-improved display.
This Saturday, the Twickenham faithful were far more subdued as they made their way home or into the various bars and pubs around the ground.
Despite England claiming their second straight , it was the manner of the win that left plenty of doubts as England prepare for the sterner tests against Ireland, France and Wales in the coming weeks.
Management and players were all singing from the same hymn sheet afterwards, giving due credit to the Italians and saying that although it was not the prettiest display, the side did manage to grind out a victory.
And winger Josh Lewsey tellingly said that this was a game that England would have probably lost that game in the autumn.
The problem is that England were a shadow of the side that shone last week.
They lacked the incision displayed against Scotland and allowed themselves to be dragged into a forwards鈥 battle, a contest that suited Italy's fierce and very effective pack.
Fair play to Brian Ashton for saying in the after-match press conference that he was to blame for over-emphasising the 鈥溾 in the build-up to the match.
Ashton wants his players to be able to read what is in front of them and react quickly and accurately. The fact that they could not alter their game plan against Italy will be a concern for England's new supremo.
When England were able to get the ball away from contact and spread it wide they carved out chances, but those opportunities were few and far between.
England were guilty at times of aimessly shipping the ball along the line, when straightening it up and taking the ball into contact could have seen them get over the gain line.
Jason Robinson's try should have given his side the spark that was so desperately needed but after the half-time break England faded and lost the second half 7-6.
Now before I get accused of bias, this article is by no means trying to take anything away from the Italians, who responded magnificently to their humbling defeat at the hands of France last weekend.
How coach Pierre Berbizier must have wished he had turned up with a less limited game plan - if they had been more adventurous they could have won.
But by the end, the game had got so bad that England's decision to kick for goal was met with whistles while Twickenham resorted to a lengthy Mexican wave.
That should tell you everything you need to know about the action on the pitch.
As we shouldn't have over-hyped the Scotland win, England fans should not overreact after the Italy performance.
This is a new side, with new combinations, which has only played two games together and despite the faults are currently unbeaten.
But the difficulty is that Ireland now lie in wait, and England know that their game has to improve massively if they are to beat the Six Nations favourites at Croke Park.
And Ireland coach Eddie O'Sullivan will not be losing too much sleep after watching that display.
PS I told you I was dreadful at predictions re: Seconds out, round two. Two down one to go, let鈥檚 see if I can have a clean sweep!
Wales 27-18 England
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I don't think England are anything special. There are several flaws in the way that they play.
They lack creativity, and are over reliant on the pack. They always seem to try to plough through the middle, and never pass wide or switch the play. The reliance on Johnny Wilkinson could also prove costly.
Against an organised defence such as Ireland and Wales, England are going to struggle. I think they may find their last three games extremely hard going.
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I thought England lacked shape in the backs and allowed themselves to be over-awed by the Italians too many times. Instead of keeping to the basics and running the ball at the deffences, Englad tried to take the ball through the Italians, frequently trying to take it back into the large and effective Italian pack.
Johny Wilkinson seems to have adopted a far more cautious air in his play, electing to kick on far too many occaisions, rather that swing the ball out to Farrell and Tindall, who both played with strenght and dinamism. It was good to see Josh Lewsey making a few more of his trade-mark punching runs.
Going forward, England looked good but, characteristically, didn't do it enough. They allowed the Italians to run at them and this flattered the Italians. Don't get me wrong - the Italians pack were very strong and very solid and Contepomi put the squeeze on Ellis all too easily. What happened to the pack looking after the scrum-half, as of last week?
In conclusion, England were quiet, lacked shape and allowed the opposition to dominate and, ultimately look better than they actually were. If they want to win against the Irish in two week's time, they need to keep their shape, push hard in deffence, and put as much pressure on the Irish scrum-half as they can. Englad can play well enouhg to beat the Irish, if they put all the pressure they can going forward. Josh Lewsey needs to be at full-back and Tom Rees needs to be at blind-side flanker. The centres are strong enough and experienced enough to be able to deal with the Irish centres and I think the battle between Wilkinson and O'Garah will be fantastic.
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I think Wilkinson deserves to be in the squad just for his goal kicking, in the past few years we've lost games by points which could of been kicked. Creativity is what England need and jonny can give them that but they need someone in the centre that is a thinker , like greenwood was many years ago. I believe Tindall is a fantastic player but maybe he should play inside like he did in the world cup his passing and kicking is underated and he can bosh it up if need be. Outside centre should be Tait, he's Englands answer to brian odriscoll and should be given a starting place, his only weakness is experience. Against Ireland I think farrel will struggle unless tindall can provide something outside. The forwards will need a dramatic improvement against ireland who have one of the best packs in the world at the moment.
I also want to say Italy had a amazing game which they could have won, there next few games will be interesting as long as they keep up the good performances.
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Well, hopefully that's England back down to earth again after the hysterics generated by their win over Scotland last week. Italy played an intelligent game by pinning England back in their own half, thereby keeping Wilkinson out of range and exposing their limited arsenal. And with the only legitimate try of the match (the pass to Robinson was forward) Italy won the second half 7-6. That should be it for England now - I can't see them winning against Ireland, France or Wales - the latter bound to be fired up after yesterday's poor performance.
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Is it not a common failing of English teams that they need telling and of course take direction too literally or do not understand their own sport enough to adapt.
I thought the worst aspect of this was that serial not in form bowler Harmison coming off a 60 average in the test series having started like a drain was asked with no cricket for 4 months how he would be fit in May and he said he'd leave it up to the coaching staff.
This may also explain in Rugby how England actually go backwards off a game whilst the rest of Rugby go forward. England's most encouraging Autumn performance was against New Zealand and then it was downhill all the way. They can only play to a plan and don't improve or gel when the coach tries to move on.
Then again frighteningly maybe we are well coached and just have poor players!!! That explains it as well.
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I'm an italian fan and I'm quite glad after our performance at Twickenham yesterday.
I was ready for a bad defeat after our hugly performance agaist the French last week in Rome and also because we had several injuried players. But Italy surpised me and I think that if we had played with more bravery during the first half we could scary a little bit more England. Now I'm trustful about our future: we can beat both Scotland and Wales (and, why not, we can trip Ireland in Rome in the last game!) but we have to play at least like yesterday becouse now other teams know that we are not so bad.
A suggestion for you, english fans: don't be unsatified only because you didn't beat Italy with at least 30 points difference: you can recognise great teams expecially in these bad days. You played bad but you won anyway and you have a player that can relly make the difference: maybe without Wilkinson we could have some more chances...
Good luck for the rest of the tournament!
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I can't say I am surprised at England's performance yesterday. Last week's euphoria over the victory against us Scots was excessive. Don't get me wrong England thoroughly deserved their win last week but the score was flattering. A couple of bad Scottish mistakes and a try that never was made the score look worse than it was.
England have a long way to go if they are to return to World Cup winning level.
I do not think there is much between the 5 Nations teams (ignoring Italy), but I think we are all well behind the Southern Hemisphere teams and the gulf in class will be there for all to see later in the year.
I hope I am wrong...
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First of all I ma very delighted with how our national team played. We played avery intelligent game keeping the English team pressured in its half and always forcing the English to clear in tush from the last 22mts. However a word on the referee is worth saying. In my opinion the refereeing was scandalous and I mention only 2 episodes. The pass to Robinson was a forward pass, and the offside in the second half was totlally inexistent, not to mention that the yellow card shown to Bortolami was too fiscal. However we are very proud of our national team and the performance the players gave.
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Dont blame the backs on this one, blame the forwards!! England should not panic and make changes for the sake of it,by the end of today their will be two teams who can win the grand slam and england will be one of them!! let farrell an tindall build a relationship, in the forwards id like to see chris jones and tom palmer given a chance, maybe move easter to 8 and bring jones in at 6
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I don't think it was that bad yesterday at all! In football matches, teams like manchester united might not play great but come away with a 1-0 win, then win 5-0 the next week. Its the same sort of thing as yesterday, england CAN beat every team in this competition, and we beat a very good strong Italy team, who if they play like that have ability to beat Wales and Scotland very well. The point is england were under par and still won, so when we are over par ( like against scotland) we can beat anybody. Don't be so disappointed, 2 wins out of 2 ain't bad
bye
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Referring to Hugh (no 7) I agree with you about there not being much difference between the teams in the northern hemisphere.
I do, however, disagree that the score was flattering. If anything, the score was flattering to Scotland with their second, consolation try.
Yesterday England played the game that the Italians wanted them to play, rather than the game that should have been played. With the amount of experience in the side, someone should have noticed this on the pitch and instigated changes, probably either Vickery, Corry or Wilkinson.
Saying that, I thought the Italian pack was excellent yesterday. They bullied and harassed and did everything that forwards should do.
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England have shown that they can beat decent teams (not great,but definately not awful) by way of attractive (ish) running rugby and scrapping out, hard, unattractive battles. But a couple of months ago we could barely trouble the scorebard operator!. Why is anyone complaining?? We are not going to play like we did pre world-cup overnightand lets face it there isn't as much talent in this squad (not that that is an insult really)
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A positive - we played badly and still won. I am always told that is the mark of a great team. I also feel that we are being typically English here, but please remember that unlike football, we have won the major trophy of the sport in very recent memory - we must have done something right! We are either the best or the worst and never in between. As for the southern hemisphere being far ahead of the Six Nations sides, well that only goes as far as New Zealand. Australian and South Africa struggled over here in the Autumn and are both not better than Ireland, France or England.
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I can't agree more with most of the above although all the hype after last weeks win over Scotland was over Jonny - I don't recall anyone 'we're the best team in the world' or anything close.
Whoever wins today wins the Grand Slam, the losers runner up (that's been the case since the fixtures were announced) then England, Italy, Scotland and Wooden Spoon Wales (shall be known as Wooden Wales from now on). Positions three to six were the ones up for grabs and England fit the bill for third.
That's progress over the horrible year last year.
Palmer was the best forward in the autumn - maybe he'll get a start now although against the formidable Irish pack I'm not sure even Johnson could make a difference.
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I think that yesterday we played a good rugby and a big difference between England and Italy is after all that tha others teams concretizes every occasion instead of our difficulties about scoring. In fact VS France first 15mins we played in the France field and we missed a try very simple; France at its first occasion scored and so did england yesterday:
Bye Andy from Italy
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I think that yesterday we played a good rugby and a big difference between England and Italy is after all that tha others teams concretizes every occasion instead of our difficulties about scoring. In fact VS France first 15mins we played in the France field and we missed a try very simple; France at its first occasion scored and so did england yesterday:
Bye Andy from Italy
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Maybe now england will wake up to the fact that they are no where close to the three best three teams in europe. Yesterday, once again, they crawled over the finishing line with major help by the referee (whats with this constant helping hand). This week they were handed 8 points by another poor refereeing display and italy had some dubious decisions against them in second half. I thought the last 10 mins were telling of what england should expect in the next three games, italy suddenly realised that they could win the game and then showed more confidence and finally started throughing the ball about which resulted in a great try. England looked to their saviour JW but even he can't kick drop goals from his own half, even the ref ceased the gifts of free pens. However, I think the english should realise that ashton has taken a team from 10 straight defeats to a 2 win run! You should all pray that JW doesn't get injured or else you will find that any hope of another win in championship will be slimmer than it already is and a hammering could be in the post. Lets also hope for a good game today as yest. were of poor quality.
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Maybe now england will wake up to the fact that they are no where close to the three best three teams in europe. Yesterday, once again, they crawled over the finishing line with major help by the referee (whats with this constant helping hand). This week they were handed 8 points by another poor refereeing display and italy had some dubious decisions against them in second half. I thought the last 10 mins were telling of what england should expect in the next three games, italy suddenly realised that they could win the game and then showed more confidence and finally started throughing the ball about which resulted in a great try. England looked to their saviour JW but even he can't kick drop goals from his own half, even the ref ceased the gifts of free pens. However, I think the english should realise that ashton has taken a team from 10 straight defeats to a 2 win run! You should all pray that JW doesn't get injured or else you will find that any hope of another win in championship will be slimmer than it already is and a hammering could be in the post. Lets also hope for a good game today as yest. were of poor quality.
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Message 7, Hugh.
You're quite right about that try. Pulling the player down in the lineout and numbers not matched. Should never have been allowed!
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Jason - do tell then who aside from Ireland (and they were vulnerable against Wales) are better than England in the Six Nations? France are equally falable and showed that in the Autumn when they were hammered by New Zealand twice and struggled against Argentina, Wales? they are not the sum of their parts, Scotland - ahem!, Italy - ? So England are not in the top three sides in Europe yet they currently sit on top of the Six Nations table? I also feel that England's performance against Scotland is what sides should expect in the next few games - if England gels then they are more than capable of being 6 Nations champions.
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Jason - do tell then who aside from Ireland (and they were vulnerable against Wales) are better than England in the Six Nations? France are equally falable and showed that in the Autumn when they were hammered by New Zealand twice and struggled against Argentina, Wales? they are not the sum of their parts, Scotland - ahem!, Italy - ? So England are not in the top three sides in Europe yet they currently sit on top of the Six Nations table? I also feel that England's performance against Scotland is what sides should expect in the next few games - if England gels then they are more than capable of being 6 Nations champions.
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Lets all stay negative, 2 questionable performances and 2 wins, wales lost last week and were positive as a result, and yesterday showed what being positive does for you! Lets see what the future brings as they say things can only get better. All the hype about JW is right he is world class and always has been. No one says we are going to win the next world cup but we have been there and live in hope. 3 hard games to come but slow progress is surely better than no progress.
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The team that won the world cup was labelled as boring as has every other England team. So I'm not concerned about the England performance. After all Italy played a good kicking game and only wanted to pin England back, it's always hard to score tries aganst a team that is playing that sort of game. Though if England do lose Wilkinson that will not beat Ireland or France
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The game against Italy felt very much like the games in the last world cup - Everybody seems to forget that we won the world cup because we have the ability (in Wilkinson) to punish teams from anywhere in their own half. This is an effective way of winning without playing spectacular attacking rugby. So England will win games against the likes of France, Australia, Ireland and South Africa if penalties are given away early and the psychological advantage is gained. New Zealand - no chance.
All this said the Winner of todays game is more than likely going to be the Six Nations champion for this year and the World Cup is New Zealands.
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Summary of Six Nation's weekend -
Dull,
Duller,
Delightful surprise...
but, nothing (so far) for Allblacks to worry about,
come the 20th of October 2007.
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I dont care how bad we play. Lets take the win and be happy with it. If we play bad for the next 3 games and win by even less of a points margin are we going to complain? I want to see attractive positive running rugby however whats the point if we loose? Lets get back to a winning at all cost culture!
We put the jocks back in the box and shut them up last weekend.. apart from the moaning about the try that should have been diasallowed. If that was us complaining we would be labeled bad loosers...
France and Ireland will give us more of a challenge and allow us to see where we are. Would be happy win a 1 point win in either game!
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I have a worry over New Zealand and despite being English I know my kiwi friends have the same. Every world cup the All Blacks go in as favorites (even in 2003) and they tend to lose (with the exception of 1987) when the pressure is on. 1991 - to Australia in the semi, 1995 - to South Africa in the final, 1999 - to France in the semi, 2003 - to Australia in the semi. Yes I know this NZ side is awesome but one bad performance in the knock-out stages and its all over. They are due a bad performance as no side can dominate so much, even the All Blacks.
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Compliments to a very scrappy english team after having beaten italy. I have only one complain: what does italy need to do in order to get a more favourable refereeing ?
Not a single decision was in our favour. Next time I suggest to get an english ref..... so at least we know in advance what is going to happen.
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Boring game from start to finish. But nevertheless a 20-7 win. If that were against any other team England fans would be happy but against Italy it's like an enormous let down. I find that a bit insulting as Italy aren't as bad as people think. A lof of their players play in France for good teams so it's not like they are slouches.
As for Jonny's kicking..., he only kicks the penalties that the other team give away. And why do they do that? Because they are forced into it. I think England will rise to the remaining 3 games. I think they took Italy a little lightly but Ireland and France they will very wise to.
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Just a quick point to remember. I cant say i paid too much intrest in all the autumn international results but didnt this same Italian team only just loose to Australia 17-24? You could say the French game they underperformed. We should gauge just how much of a result 20-7 is at the end of the 6nations when we see what other results the Italians achieve!
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I'm quietly confident that England are going to be a serious force come the world cup, with a little bit of luck and JW staying injury free, the ABs are going to have some serious competition and must realise now that England are going to be a very different proposition from 12 months ago... I still believe that the ABs have peaked too early, and as usual will probably bottle it when the chips are down as they've done on the two previous world cups... After today performance by the Irish i honestly believe that we can get the result we need at croke park... bring it on!
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Please tell me both Scots and Welsh not scared by the prospect of playing Italy.
They just lost to Argentina and beat Canada comfortably. One blip against France and a good performance yesterday. France didn't have it all their own way either.
Troncon was massive.
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As an italian, I think our team is not so good to scary the likes of England, not yet; and sure, some years have gone and we are still struggling to reach the level. On the other hand, we're not as bad as many of you think: just need 2-3 victories in a row to boost confidence and gain the proper experience. Because, this is the surprising point, saturday was a balanced match, Wilkinson apart. Take care of JW and good luck for next match.
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England - that was pathetic! And Mark #20 and r0nin #31 - you're dreaming! After all the self-congratulations and claims of being on track for world glory after that ordinary display against Scotland last week, Italy has demonstrated how poor England really is. Yes, England is at the top of the board at the moment having played the 2 weakest teams in the competition - but will end up in 4th - same as last year!!
Italy played extremely well and have been steadily improving recently - same as Argentina. If it wasn't for some extremely friendly refereeing in England's favour, the result could have been very different. How often recently have England been given the luxury of playing against 14 men? Is that the only way they can appear competitive? And is there a new rule that says England is allowed to forward pass but their opponents aren't? Robinson's try should have been dis-allowed - the ball clearly went forward.
Although the results didn't show it, I think England played better rugby in the Autumn - I'm not al all convinced BA has got it right, and after the result against Italy, the team is going backwards - nothing to show except for JW's kicking. Not a great World Cup strategy!
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Here we go again, winning not good enough! our Celtic brethren suggesting calling us arrogant, blaming the ref, and spotting one error which obviously makes us rubbish!
2 things I noticed from Saturday's display. 1. Very few English offloads (not an Ashton feature of play)2. Italy never looked remotely like scoring save for a 10 minute spell when the game was over.
Yes it was not pretty, yes that playing style will not beat the Irish or the French.
Could it be that we decided on a more limited game plan because we were taking on "the best pack in the competition" as stated by various 大象传媒 pundits before the Italy v France. Could it be that the quality of the Italian forward play limited our options slightly.
RE: JW - his place kicking is no better than Messrs. Patterson, O'Gara, Jones etc. England's problem is that we have no-one else any where near that standard and that is not good enough at international level.
One final point, in October and November 2003 (yeah an Englishman going on about the world cup again), we all got the jitters because we let Samoa and then Wales get within 2 scores at some point in the match. Lets measure England (indeed all teams) at the end of the tournament rather than after each game. My predictions after week 1 are all over the place after week 2 so I'm not making them any more.
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Ronin #31 - That was a joke blog right?
England won nearly every game in the run up to their WC win in 2003. Did they peak too early???
Teams that can beat England at this point - France, Ireland, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand.
None of these teams are going to give less in the WC. NZ will have timed it just right for their players to peak during the WC. Unless they have a severe crisis they will win. If something does go wrong then I think it's between the other teams I mentioned above.
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While many were applauding England and JW last week, still more were waiting for an opportunity to throw it back at them. This 'victory' has given 'em a chance.
But I wish to remind everybody that England finished each of the last world cup match in a victory (yep, there was the same doubts and criticism even up to the final) - they had that something it takes to finish on the winning side.
As a neutral observer, I don't see nothing much for England to be alarmed. They just need to rethink some of their plays and selections. That's all!
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It is very easy to moan about England playing badly but this is a little disrespectful to Italy who played very well. Yes, they are a limited team but they played to their undoubted strengths and will give others a hard test on that form.
I was always interested in the manner in which England would play rather than the result. If we're honest, talk of Grand Slams or World Cups after the Scotland game was always way off the mark. England weren't that good last week and not really that bad this week. Both games ended in a win and we scored tries. I'd be much more concerned if I were a Welsh supporter. Despite all the talk about sexy rugby they have scored fewer tries than Magnus Lund - or Scotland. The Scots couldn't be as bad two weeks running - although the improvement was marginal and only in defence. Patterson is not quick enough to be an international wing, good kicker though he may be.
On the evidence so far both the Scottish and Welsh packs will struggle against Italy's eight. Don't know quite what to make of Ireland - the manner of their defeat may be more disappointing than the fact of it. If they are honest they should have been at least 15 points down by half time and only managed two penalties in the second half for all their effort. Forget the score at the end, for a team hailed by some optimists as 'the best in the northern hemisphere' they were comprehensively outplayed for much of the first half and the last two minutes of the second.
The manner of that defeat might just shatter some fragile confidence and give England a wee bit more of a chance at Croke Park in a fortnight. Jonny Wilkinson is unlikely to be as profligate with the penalty kicks as David Skrela.
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Please could the 大象传媒 refrain from adoring shots of feckless inbreeds (aka royal family, and "inbreed" comment retracted for Prince Harry ) each time the action dies - which happened a fair bit on Saturday? And why did Rob Andrew need advice on the Wall Game from young master FitzHewitt? And why did the commentator feel moved to tell us that Mike Tindall's girlfriend was watching - weren't the other players' partners too? Lickspittle nonsense. Bill McLaren, not Jenni Murray, in future, please.
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To all the modest English fans, this comment is not aimed at you, However, to all the "formerly" Disillusioned english fans thinking their team were again, world class I have to say "TOLD YOU SO!"
I am scottish and was pleased for england to win aginst us and Italy. I was obviously dissapointed with our performance on the day but knew that performance was the only thing making the english team look anywhere near good!
However, i knew from the second that wishtle blew all i would be getting is the rugby equivilent of "1966"! On one blog someone actually stated england could rival the kiwi's?????? Come on!
I know it sounds evil but im glad you played a shoddy game of rugby to bring you back to earth and deflate your ego's
Now come on Scotland!!! Not only the 6N but the RWC is ours now!
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How dare Expat #34 suggest that we have only beaten the 2 weakest teams in the competition.
Surely we play Wales last up.
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I don't know how anyone thinks that England can win the triple crown or even the six nations! It's shocking they play the 2 easiest teams in the RBS six nations and yet all of a sudden bang they stuff scotland and scraped past italy very narrowly only saved by Wilkonson and Robinson. And yet Ireland lose there captain and came within 3 points against France and some people think England could beat a full strength Ireland it's insane!! Ireland 4 the Triple crown!!
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I don't know how anyone thinks that England can win the triple crown or even the six nations! It's shocking they play the 2 easiest teams in the RBS six nations and yet all of a sudden bang they stuff scotland and scraped past italy very narrowly only saved by Wilkonson and Robinson. And yet Ireland lose there captain and came within 3 points against France and some people think England could beat a full strength Ireland it's insane!! Ireland 4 the Triple crown!!
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tried to send this blog sunday 11th february unsuccessful. annoying since it is my first blog. so on second attempt does anyone else agree with me that the coverage of the matches so far by bbc has been poor like englands performance against a gritty italy. A lot of the tv shots were not close enough to the play to see who was doing what. With replays been played over live play, at least a 30 second shot of the italian coach doing nothing, mind you england were doing nothing on the pitch so maybe the director had a point. So just like england the bbc have a lot to improve upon.
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tried to send this blog sunday 11th february unsuccessful. annoying since it is my first blog. so on second attempt does anyone else agree with me that the coverage of the matches so far by bbc has been poor like englands performance against a gritty italy. A lot of the tv shots were not close enough to the play to see who was doing what. With replays been played over live play, at least a 30 second shot of the italian coach doing nothing, mind you england were doing nothing on the pitch so maybe the director had a point. So just like england the bbc have a lot to improve upon.
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Personally I think England are behind both France and Ireland at the moment, but are only two games in to the Brian Ashton era. The team needs more time to gel together and if injuries are kept to a minimum that will come.
A lot of people have slated England's performances in this blog because of refereeing decisions, JW etc. But let's face it, any of the 6N teams would love to have JW in their team and refereeing decisions in their favour become "part of the game". Sometimes they go your way, sometimes they don't. There appear to be a lot of double standards. I would be more concerned about Wales not scoring a single try yet.
I was proud of our team when we won the WC last time, but that counts for nothing this year. We have a long way to go before we are capable of matching that success again. This England team needs belief in themselves as well as from their supporters as well as a dose or realism. Too often we are either overhyped or portrayed as lucky/a one man team/one-dimensional. But a win is a win. Regardless of the manner of the victories and the opposition, apart from France (who have also won twice), I am sure all the other teams would prefer to be in England's position in the 6N at the moment.
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Brian Ashton has been praised for picking players in their normal club positions, unlike Andy Robinson, but I sincerely believe he has got it wrong with Josh Lewsey. The Wasp is England's best, safest and most penetrative full-back, and as a man who dislikes being continually moved around he deserves to be put in that position - and left there.
OK, he does a respectable job as a makeshift winger, but considering how little use we make of our wings (remember, we used to starve Rory Underwood?) we might as well put Josh in his proper place and give a real winger a chance. If you want speed, there's Tom Varndell amongst several others, if you want brains and creativity go for Simpson-Daniel.
The Italy game looked like a prolonged training exercise for the pack; it might even have been intended as just that, but what was so disappointing was the almost total lack of variety and creativity from the backs. Where were the occasional grubbers or chips over the top, or the cross-field kick to a waiting winger? I doubt whether the coming Ireland game will be used a prolonged training exercise for the backs, but it looks as though they need one.
Having said that, my instincts tell me England will get steadily better and better; next Autumn might bring a few surprises.
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England's forward power is immense (at the line-out and scrum), yet the forwards' play against Scotland and Italy lacked a certain speed and ability to drive the defence back. In 2001-2003 our mauls destroyed teams and could gain 20 metres in a 30 seconds - not they go side to side.
A lot of this is how the pack and its ball carriers interact with the scrum-half. Matt Dawson was underrated, and I believe Gommarsall would be a far more accomplished player than Ellis now.
England's back division in 2001-2003 was not much different to 2005-2007's class. I am not convinced of Jason Robinson or Andy Farrell. I'd like to see Cohen back on the left-wing, and find someone at Inside-Centre with the pace and ability to run at amazing angles that made Greenwood the best IC in the world for a brief period.
Can England win the 6N? The game against Ireland will be key. At the least an away win to Ireland means England can win the Triple Crown and half a reasonable chance at the WC. An away defeat and I think England need to reconsider about 5-6 players. Personally, I have some optimism as I think Ireland's game may suit England.
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England's forward power is immense (at the line-out and scrum), yet the forwards' play against Scotland and Italy lacked a certain speed and ability to drive the defence back. In 2001-2003 our mauls destroyed teams and could gain 20 metres in a 30 seconds - not they go side to side.
A lot of this is how the pack and its ball carriers interact with the scrum-half. Matt Dawson was underrated, and I believe Gommarsall would be a far more accomplished player than Ellis now.
England's back division in 2001-2003 was not much different to 2005-2007's class. I am not convinced of Jason Robinson or Andy Farrell. I'd like to see Cohen back on the left-wing, and find someone at Inside-Centre with the pace and ability to run at amazing angles that made Greenwood the best IC in the world for a brief period.
Can England win the 6N? The game against Ireland will be key. At the least an away win to Ireland means England can win the Triple Crown and half a reasonable chance at the WC. An away defeat and I think England need to reconsider about 5-6 players. Personally, I have some optimism as I think Ireland's game may suit England.
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England's forward power is immense (at the line-out and scrum), yet the forwards' play against Scotland and Italy lacked a certain speed and ability to drive the defence back. In 2001-2003 our mauls destroyed teams and could gain 20 metres in a 30 seconds - not they go side to side.
A lot of this is how the pack and its ball carriers interact with the scrum-half. Matt Dawson was underrated, and I believe Gommarsall would be a far more accomplished player than Ellis now.
England's back division in 2001-2003 was not much different to 2005-2007's class. I am not convinced of Jason Robinson or Andy Farrell. I'd like to see Cohen back on the left-wing, and find someone at Inside-Centre with the pace and ability to run at amazing angles that made Greenwood the best IC in the world for a brief period.
Can England win the 6N? The game against Ireland will be key. At the least an away win to Ireland means England can win the Triple Crown and half a reasonable chance at the WC. An away defeat and I think England need to reconsider about 5-6 players. Personally, I have some optimism as I think Ireland's game may suit England.
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Can people please stop saying that England have beaten the 2 easiest teams in the 6 nations. Scotland just beat Wales so does that not put Wales in the bottom 2??
I was rooting for the Italians because they struggle every time & to beat the WC champions would have given them immense confidence.
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Will people stop talking about the world cup.
Prior to the last England had lost two games in three years and both without Martin Johnson - Ireland and France.
This is not the same team and nor will be. That said to my mind progress has been made and will continue to be made.
Unfortunately we are not in the same league as Ireland France or one or two of the southern hemisphere sides.
Let's not pretend otherwise and be happy with two from two. Yes England can still win the triple crown and the grandslam but let's set realistic goals - 3rd and then quarter final. After that who knows?
ps perhaps Geoff (above) would like Jonny out of the team as well as Jason Robinson/Andy Farrell. Please. A team playing with a little belief means a lot more - don't change that.....
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"I'm not al all convinced BA has got it right, and after the result against Italy, the team is going backwards - nothing to show except for JW's kicking. Not a great World Cup strategy!"
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It worked last time...
Seriously, I'm going to make no judgements yet - Italy played well - the team is not yet used to each other. But still - we won, for goodness sake!
England fans seem to be under the impression we played fast, free flowing rugby at WC 2003- we didn't -we played good rugby and we won ugly. I'll not be complaining if we do the same come the Ireland game.
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I think some of the criticism being targeted at the English team is a little unfair. They did win the game, and Ok, the second half was abysmal, and Ok, they were much better against Scotland, but they have won both games so far and are still in contention. Personally I cant see France being beaten any time soon but England have got plenty of decent players in their lineup and I think will at least make the top 3.
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Nowhere near the best 3 in Europe?
Granted, we're not exactly lighting the world up at the moment but who are the three in front of us: Ireland and France I can understand ... but please don't tell me you think it's Wales; they are lightweigths who got mauled by Scotland and you know what we did to them upfront.
As for the much vaunted celtic free-flowing running and passing, the Scotland/Wales game was an example of of schoolboy rugby played badly.
England are dull at the moment, but there is no way we will lose to Ireland, France and Wales.
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England were expected to win against Scotland and Italy now the "real games" begin against Ireland, Wales and France.
Engalnd are still feeling their way at least the backrow is now more balanced, although I'm still not convinced about Worsley/Easter at blindside both seem great club players but when wearing the England shirt the same power and dynamism seem to be lacking.
I really think Balshaw is not as good as Leswey or Robinson at full back. It would like to see Cueto and Robinson on the wing and Leswey at full back
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Why oh why is Balshaw even in the squad never mind the starting XV. He is never going to be the player he was before the Lions tour in 2001 and their are far better fullback options available. A succession of coaches seem blind to his lack of ability.
Does he have some incriminating photo's of key memebers of the England heirachy ??
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