Wales flounder around The Edge
- 11 Feb 07, 04:26 PM
Cardiff - 鈥淭he Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over.
鈥淭he others are those who who pushed their control as far as they felt they could handle it, and then pulled back, or slowed down, or did whatever they had to when it came time to choose between Now and Later鈥 - .
So how can a side like Wales, who lived and thrived on that edge between prudence and disaster in 2005, be reduced to the ineptitude of ?
It is the question that has been sending internet messageboards, radio phone-ins and TV text services into meltdown since Gareth Jenkins鈥 team trudged from the Edinbugh turf after their 21-9 humbling by Scotland.
In 2006 it was easy to blame a crippling injury list, but now the key players are back attention inevitably turns to the coaches.
Now I鈥檓 wary of harping on about again 鈥 but everyone else in Wales is, so let鈥檚 look at the record.
After the Grand Slam glory of 2005, a post-Lions tour, injury-ravaged Wales struggled through the autumn series, where rumours of splits in the camp began to emerge.
They took to the field for the 2006 Six Nations opener in Twickenham embracing Scott Johnson鈥檚 extreme vision of The Edge.
To quote Thompson again: 鈥淲ith the throttle screwed on there is only the barest margin, nor room at all for mistakes.
鈥淚t has to be done right鈥 and that's when the strange music starts, when you stretch your luck so far that fear becomes exhilaration and vibrates along your arms.鈥
But rather than tuning in to that high, white noise, Wales sent out a desperate shriek, their throw-it-from-anywhere approach proving predictable as ruthless .
Ruddock seemed to have restored the harmony for the following game with Scotland, a sensible forward approach allied to flair behind seeing Wales to a .
But just two days later 鈥 on St Valentine鈥檚 Day 鈥 . Wales turned to Johnson, whose team were , in Cardiff, and .
left as the only man who could reunite Welsh rugby, but he must have known that a clamour for Ruddock鈥檚 return would grow the moment he faltered.
There were genuine fears that Jenkins would adopt a throttling back, safety first approach, but an encouraging performance in suggested he had embraced the dynamic 鈥淲elsh way鈥.
Then, in Scotland, we were back to the worst excesses of the Johnson era.
Quality players like Mark Jones and Ryan Jones flung out crazy balls in their own 22 that should have resulted in interception tries.
The manic, attack-at-all-costs attitude was too predictable 鈥 and was predictably snuffed out.
So where do we go from here? The calls for Jenkins鈥 head have been unmatched by anything since , but he should not be jettisoned on the eve of the .
Selection has to be looked at. Everyone in Wales will be picking their first-choice side over the next fortnight, and for the record I would bring in Mefin Davies, Horsman, , Shanklin and Shane Williams.
But will the extra game-breakers and grizzled veterans up front take us back to The Edge?
If I could answer that, I wouldn鈥檛 be doing this. I鈥檇 be assistant coach at .
Wales 27-18 England
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鈥淭he Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over.' ...and there was I thinking you were talking about U2's guitarist, 'The Edge', who is indeed a Welshman who knew where it was (Ireland), and has indeed gone over. A great man once said to me - '...look at all them fields in Wales... there's no stone walls for miles, like in the West of Ireland.... and 'cause a that, them welsh don't really have a proper history of fightin'... - and yeh can see it in their Rugby...'
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鈥淭he Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over.'
...and there was I thinking you were talking about U2's guitarist, 'The Edge', who is indeed a Welshman who knew where it was (Ireland), and has indeed gone over. A great man once said to me - '...look at all them fields in Wales... there's no stone walls for miles, like in the West of Ireland.... and 'cause a that, them welsh don't really have a proper history of fightin'... - and yeh can see it in their Rugby...'
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鈥淭he Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over.'
...and there was I thinking you were talking about U2's guitarist, 'The Edge', who is indeed a Welshman who knew where it was (Ireland), and has indeed gone over. A great man once said to me - '...look at all them fields in Wales... there's no stone walls for miles, like in the West of Ireland.... and 'cause a that, them welsh don't really have a proper history of fightin'... - and yeh can see it in their Rugby...'
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You chaps keep your "sexy rugby."
We'll just focus on rugby that actually wins matches.
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Interesting blog and with my connections with Mumbles RFC - I played for them in the 70s while at Uni while I was born and bred in Blaina so my comments may be somewhat biased. That said playing on the edge requires a certain confidence, a confidence that is the difference between world beaters and also rans.
The current Mumbles Rugby Club coach, like it or not, gave the Welsh players and public alike that quiet assurance and inner strength that was the MARGINAL difference that allowed Wales to succeed on the edge.
That confidence is gone and with it the chances of victory. The "Welsh way" has to have a foundation, a rock and exactly one year ago we blasted it out of the water in our typical parochial approach. Ruddock gave Henson that confidence and I'm sure Hook, who has the calibre of Dan Carter, would have been No 10 in the last 3 games. We squander our great talent why - because we have no confidence!! Look at NZ for an example of the converse.
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Whilst the line-out was bad and the scrum unspectacular, I saw the main problem being the breakdown. I鈥檓 all for letting the big lads hang around in midfield for the quick ball, but surely it鈥檚 the basics of securing the ball to recycle in the first place? Scotland鈥檚 second and back rows plus Cussiter were all over Welsh ball carriers as soon as they hit the deck and we were just not clearing out. Jamie Robinson came in on a crash ball (seriously?) in the last five minutes and just lay there helpless as the Scots stole it without so much as a 鈥測oink鈥.
Possession was rare because the scots were all over us on the floor and we couldn鈥檛 go through phases. We need to get a sensible balance between securing ball and getting numbers outside waiting for it to comeback 鈥 especially against a team Scotland whose whole game was based on breakdown speed.
Is Wellies the man for 10? Poor distance on kicks out of hand, and never a 100% goal-kicker.
A word about Wales defence though. Totally committed and never gave up.
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Firstly, I live in Austria and have yet to see a single minute of footage. Instead I have to make do with depressed Welshmen filling in the blanks as well as reading the minute by minute match reports on the 大象传媒.
Selection is key; Wales have yet to score a try in this nations six nations and as I understand it, the forwards performed well against Ireland so possesion was not a problem.
This leads us to the backs. 10 and 12 do not work. Jones at 10 plays well with Henson at 12. Hook at 10 plays well with Henson at 12. I can understand the desire to play Hook but combination is king (Gerard and Lampard etc.), we all remember the try Wales scored against Austrailia last Autumn. Who gave the pass? Henson plays because he gets the line moving.
Shanklin will be back at 13 and Williams on the wing. Mark Jones will be fit at 14 and Morgan will keep his place at 15 leaving a bench of Phillips, Hook and Alfie (when he's back from suspension.)
If this is the the back line which takes the field in Paris then there will be marked improvment.
I have no idea on forward play but I would keep G Jenkins and A jones as prop allowing for Duncan to come on after 60. For me its Cockbain and wyn Jones with same back row.
This makes sense and will work. Only hope it is seen by those who count.
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I must admit, I am in pain by what happened yesterday and have only just been able to start to talk about it. Silly, but passions run high.
I'm not sure about Horsman - hasn't performed in a Welsh shirt for me. Gives away penalties all the time.
I was surprised Shanklin didn't start and was equally surprised that Czejak did. Dare I say Hook (or sweeney) at 10, Henson at 12 and Shanklin at 13 to start next time?
Whatever it is, they are lacking something (I wasn't thinking lineout possession, but it would help). I think it is professionalism. Please, please, please we have the players, so do your job! Play!
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What an aboslute shocker. I'm writing this sat in Edinburgh airport on Sunday night and I still cannot believe the obvious and frankly impotent 'attempt' from Wales yesterday.
Two years ago i came up to Scotland and saw a side with the same backbone as yesterday destroy Scotland.
Having just watched the France game I think we are odds on for a serious shoeing in two weeks. Italy will be very tough - they pushed the English pack all over the place yesterday.
Then it's England. That's probably our best bet for a win.
Mike Ruddock - if you're reading this please come back!!!!
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my 15.
1. chris horsman
2. rhys thomas
3. Gethin jenkins
4. luke charter
5. Alun-wyn jones
6. Gavin Quinell
7. Martin Williams
8. Ryan jones
9. Dwayn peel
10. James hook
11. Shane williams
12. Gavin Henson
13. Matthew watkins
14. Mark Jones
15. Kevin morgan
I鈥檝e picked a pack that would dominate at both line out and scrum with huge ball carriers, and set of backs that know how to use the ball.
There鈥檚 not much difference in the back line but a few forwards have been brought in that will give Wales that edge up front.
Gavin Quinell deserves a chance in the team, he is Worcester鈥檚 top try scorer and at 22 stone he can offer a lot to the scrum. Luke charter is over 19 stone and 6 ft 10, so that will give us a big advantage in the line out as well as him being a great ball carrier. Alyn Wyn-jones, Ryan Jones and martin Williams have been playing amazing rugby this year.
I believe Wales have the making of a world cup winning team, but picking your best 15 doesn鈥檛 make a great team. I think players should be picked to best complement each other.
Let me know what you think.
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re Ed Beans Comments 1-3, did the great man you refer to ever watch Wales in the 1970's?
The Welsh aren't scared of a scrap and have a rugby history and heritage which I think would match Ireland's although I think greens have the edge on them at the moment. Saying that, France have just shown what can happen when you live flair instead of learning it.
As for us (Scotland of course), my magnanimous defence of my Celtic cousins is of course because I am still a happy hungover lad after yesterdays victory.
Not world shattering, but evidence of some steady progress
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England thrashed Wales 47-13 actually, your blog is wrong Mr Davies
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DK in comment 11 - a very good point, I must have been trying to ease the pain! Actually, I was looking through the archive and copied the Ireland score rather than the England one. I've amended the blog now - always a dangerous thing to do as it sparks conspiracy theories! But thanks for the sharp eyes... Mine are flagging after a long weekend watching rugby!
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DK in comment 11 - a very good point, I must have been trying to ease the pain! Actually, I was looking through the archive and copied the Ireland score rather than the England one. I've amended the blog now - always a dangerous thing to do as it sparks conspiracy theories! But thanks for the sharp eyes... Mine are flagging after a long weekend watching rugby!
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G Jenkins will come under a lot of pressure this week. To be honest in some respects he deserves it. I have to agree with mark taylors coloumn in the notw today on his surprise of leaving henson out. yes he's not on form, but still a line braker and a hell of a tackler. my team for france:
1 jones
2 rees
3 jones
4 cockbain (to aggressive to leave out)
5 wyn jones
6 popham
8 jones
7 williams
9 peel
10 jones
11 williams
12 henson
13 shanklin
14 jones
15 morgan
16 byrne
17 hook
18 jenkins
19 ?
20 ?
21 ?
22 ?
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A hideous game of rugby fought out between two poor sides. Fortunately I didn't fork out 拢40 to watch that tat in sub-zero conditions, something I am immeasurably grateful for.
Wales for the wooden spoon? On that performance I can't see them beating Italy.
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The reason we are losing [wales]and will continu to de so [wooden spoon beckons] is simple... the coaching and i mean the head coach Jenkins is at falt, its the same old story of east west divide, our nr 10 Jones would not get in any other team except wales why its because who he plays for, Popham is another example how often did he play for Wales before moving to the scarlets .. why was a certain second row forword dropt from the first game,even the coach admitted he didnt do anything wrong.We are a disgrace, bring back Ruddock
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In reply to Gareth Jones...
Horsman is a tighthead prop forward, while Gethin, despite having the ability to play as either prop, feels more settled and able at loosehead. Switch those around and I believe you have the best front row. The 'hairbears' just aren't up to the standard of scrummaging anyway. With regards hooking, Rees is Thomas' equal in everywhere bar open free play.
In terms of your second row selection, I agree with regards Wyn-Jones. So far this season he has shown great strength, defensive attributes and lineout solidity. However Charter is completely unproven, and with Gough playing with 110% commitment and determination at the moment (why he didn't play in Murrayfield I'll never know), you just can't throw Charter into the situation that Wales are in at the moment. Let him come good when we need him to come good. Evans when he's fit is another option as well.
Your back row selection brings me to something coach Gareth Jenkins said about playing the 'Welsh way'. Indeed if we wish to use that platform to its full potential, Ryan Jones must play at blindside back row forward, rather than slow the game down at number eight. Don't get me wrong, he's a superb back row forward, and a club level eight no doubt, but to play the Welsh way we either need Popham playing to provide a kind of dynamic edge to our play, or the rejuvenated Michael Owen, who is a pure footballing eight. Personally, for reliability issues only, I would go with Popham at this time. Quinnell isn't quick enough to play at international level quite yet, his time will come, but his size and direction is useful on the bench. Martyn Williams would undoubtedly be my openside back row forward instantly.
Peel would be unarguably walk straight into the scrum half position in pretty much any side in the world. The fly half debate is one I agree with you on. James Hook is better off playing in his stronger position to reach his full potential, and Stephen Jones diabolical form at the moment would have him dropped from my side immediately.
Shane Williams is our match winner and goes at 11, I agree. Mark Jones would be my 14, not so much because of his indispensable value to the team, more because of the fact that Chris Czekaj, Haldane Luscombe and Dafydd James all lack that extra bit of pace to finish 'Welsh' moves off.
Henson at inside centre is another questionable, debatable selection, but one I again agree with you on. He has solid defensive skills, takes weight off the shoulders of the 13 outside him, and is still to this day feared by any opposition. He might not have the form, but I would rather play him for solidity, rather than play a struggling Hook out of position, a Sweeney who is just too small to play centre, or a Shanklin who just kicks away posession too much. Outside centre is a difficult one, Matthew Watkins hasn't got the quickness of thought for a 13, but he's thinks outside the box, he does something different. His defence is weak, and really at this point in time, Haldane Luscombe, Dafydd James, Shanklin and Robinson would be better more reliable options.
Kevin Morgan would be my full back, not much argument there.
Just my two cents on your team selection.
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before westart bashing the performances of stephen jones, james hook as performed equally badly in the first two matches if not worse. stephen jones has to retain number 10 shirt if maybe not the captaincy. and as for winging about too many players from the west playing popham definately deserves his place, however th eblame may lie at the coach's door why has he not used charvis who has been on awesome form? and henson should at least be in the 22 because if doesnplay and play well he is a match winner and they were sorely lacking on saturday.
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(DK wrote:
England thrashed Wales 47-13 actually, your blog is wrong Mr Davies)
Look again, Mr DK. You will find that that is exactly what Mr Davies wrote.
Humble pie in the oven.
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I agree with the comment about needing forwards at the beakdown. The French and Irish used the rolling maul well today,
committing all eight forwards to the tight. We need forwards hitting the breakdown quickly to ensure quick ball.
At the moment ( we are not the only guilty ones) , forwards are clogging up the midfield and nullifying overlaps.
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I am as disappointed as anyone, but we need a cool head. Something which doesn't come easy to Celts... I'm also assuming that all the calls for Gareth Jenkins head are from the same people who called for him to be given the job!!
Sadly the fault is not just tactically, or selection. Stephen Jones has been injured which loses form, and sadly for Mike Hall, Shanklin has missed nearly 18 months for rugby so lets not hold him as our Messiah either.. We're probably not fit enough.. some props in my opinion are a little on the heavy side... In fact all the forwards could do with some heavy weights sessions...
Garin Jenkins hit the nail on the head. The players were burnt out emotionally after last Sunday. It happens.
However.. Gareth Wyatt and Aled Brew have been great for the Dragons. They could have easily covered Shane Williams position. Wyatt I think is older so may have coped better. Charvis should be on bench, but can't start over any of back row, and Hook has hardly started enough games at 10 to be the player people are building him up to be.. yet!
1-Horesman, 2-Thomas, 3-Jenkins, 4-Gough, 5-Cockbain, 6-Popham, 7-Williams, 8-Jones, 9-Peel, 10-Jones, 11-Williams, 12-Henson, 13-Shanklin, 14-Jones, 15-Morgan.
Injuries not withstanding!! Gareth Thomas on bench.
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The game was embarrassing, to lose against a team such as Scotland (no disrespect) but they did not light the pitch at all. After feeling a tad robbed against Ireland, it was acceptable with such a backline that had not really played together. But this result was horrific. Not only did we not look like scoring a try with a strong team, but we looked bad all over te park. My team would be
1.Jenkins
2.Thomas
3.Jones
4.Morgan
5.Wyn Jones
6.Popham
7.Williams (captain)
8.Jones
9.Peel
10.Hook
11.Williams
12.Robinson
13.Shanklin
14.Jones
15.Morgan
Now i know the team is not that different, but there is a reason. These players can do the job, the problem lies at captain, even though Jones kicked the goals, he is not a leader and is not controlling his backline. Honestly i do not believe that we have had such a strong backrow in years, that much the coach has got right. why oh why have they not brought the lock morgan into the team is beyond me! His form for the blues this season has been fantastic even though Gough is impressive i would love to see what he could do. Sidoli should not be in the team at all. He is weak in most areas and should be dropped. As for a return of Henson, i just cant see it, his form is pretty bad, he just does not look like he wants in at the moment. Which is sad considering he was top of the world a couple of seasons ago. Horsman is a terrible prob, too many penalties and does nothing on the field.
I fear that a wooden spoon is on the cards and a loss to the italians would surely prove that the coach cannot cope on this level of rugby. I know its too early to call for the head, but if we play like that against them in Rome, we will lose.
Prove me wrong boyos, the fans know how great you can be!
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Balance, balance , balance
any team needs balance and that does not necessarily mean that the absolutely best players. Similar players do not necessarily threaten opposition. A ball playing centre needs a foil for his attacks at this stage shanks is best choice, would pick henson ( hopefully englands former shrink can give him his confidence back ). Hook for stand off, in form and will give jonesy a kicck up the arse, if concerned re experience use sweeney, who could also be used at 12, to the chap who complained re size, have you seen this kid pay and tackle or force his way through all black defence with a hand off or charge, wake up his certainly physical enough. back row needs balance ryan jones does not have the pace for no 8, or alternatively the skills play him at 6 , with popham if you must (NOT CONVINCED YET), OWEN IF CAN GET AFOREMENTIONED SHRINK TO SORT HIM OUT OR DO SOMETHING SHOCKING LIKE PLAY CHARVIS THERE TO TEACH AS HE GOES ALONG ABOUT THE CONTACT AREA. FINALLY NEED AN ABRASIVE LOCK TO COMPLEMENT WYNN JONES GOUGH OR COCKBAIN OBVIOUS CHOICES BUT DONT RIGHT OFF WONKY IN STRADY GOOD WORKRATE, GREAT GAMES IN EUROPE.
FINALLY BACKLINE NEEDS A PHYSICAL PRESENCE AS WELL AS PACE mARK JONES STARTING TO SHOW IT BUT ELSE ALFIE, OR BREWEY
MY FIFTEENS TO FOLLOW WHEN GOT MORE TIME
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MY FIFTEEN AS PROMISED
1- HORSMAN
2- THOMAS (LAST CHANCE)
3- JENKINS
4- COCKBAIN
5- WYNN JONES
6- SCOTT MORGAN (NUISANCE AND LINEOUT OPTION)
7 - WILLIAMS (OBVIOUS AND CAPTAIN)
8 - POPHAM (FOR NOW UNTIL ANDY POWELL GETS HIS ARSE SORTED)
9 - PEEL
10 - HOOK
11 - WILLIAMS
12 - HENSON
13 - SHAKLIN
14 - MARK JONES
15 - MORGAN
16 - JONES (DUNCAN)
17 - DAVIES (IF LINEOUT GOES WRONG NEEDE)
18 - GOUGH
19 - RYAN JONES
20 - PHILLIPS (TO CHANGE GAME IF PLAN GOING AWRY)
21 - SWEENEY
22 - BREW (ALED)
HOWEVER IF EVERYONE GETS BACK ON ALL CYLINDERS FOR THE WORLD CUP WOULD ALSO CHANGE IN DAF JONES, ANDY POWELL (SO MUCH TALENT, PACE AND POWER JUST GET HIS HEAD SORTED)
ALFIE (ON BENCH)AND POSSIBLY EVEN GAVIN QUINNELL IF SOMEONE CAN GET HIM SORTED OUT BUT WORLD CUP MAY BE TOO SOON FOR HIM HAS THE POTENTIAL TO BE THE BEST QUINELL YET (HONESTLY) PLUS WITH ALL THE NEW FACES WOULD BE DIFFICULT TO ANALYSE AND ABLE TO MIX UP WITH THE BEST OF THEM
CHEERS FOR NOW JUST REMEMBER SIDE NEEDS TO HAVE BALANCE NOT JUST TALENT
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I would agree with your comment about Stephen Jones there Ben. Whilst I think he's been on terrible form, he is still first choice over Hook, who has, in my oppinion been a bit cocky at times with his clearency kicks (such as towards the end of the ireland game). I know there was Stephen Jones' charged down kick at the start of the Ireland game, but that was just a moment of madness. Also, has nobody noticed the ammount of times during the Scotland and Ireland games that they were passing to Czekaj (who clearly shouldn't have been playing at all against Scotland, due to his terrible preformance against Ireland!) to clear the ball! What were they thinking!? Not only is Czekaj inexperienced and not a strong kicker, but you have (normally) one of the best kicking outside halves in world rugby to do it! Silly play like that was the reason for a poor kicking game against Scotland, people are blameing Stephen Jones, but how many of those kicks did he actually make? Having said all this, I would deffinately say that somebody else should take up the captaincy, he clearly isn't doing very well with it.
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I enjoyed a 2 and a half hour delay at the airport, then told the flight was cancelled. Took an 拢85 cab to heathrow. Got another flight. Landed at Edinburgh at 3.20pm. 150MPH taxi to the ground. Missed the first 7 minutes.
Sat through another 73 minutes wishing the cab had got a puncture.
Alix Popham was head and shoulders (both ways) above the mediocre standard of a number of boys. Dwayne, Mark Jones and AWJ gave their all.
What is CC doing in the team. Chris Useless - No Tries.
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Shakespear wrote that there was something "Rotten in the state of Denmark".
Well, for those who follow the bard will realise that he refers to those keep watch over the "castle" and although they beckon the powers that be to speak to them, they refuse and they disappear.
This is exactly what is happening with the people who run Welsh rugby. We have had the Ruddock fiasco, how can we go from "Grand Slam Winners" to also rans in 2 seasons?
I was at the Murrayfield game this last weekend and I can say that this is the most inept performance by a Welsh team that I can remember.
Here is my synopsis on how the Welsh players perfomed:
K. Morgan - 4 - Did the best he could given the pressure the rest of the team put him under.
C. Robinson - 1 - Clueless in attack, bareley efficent in defence.
J. Hook - 4 - Has not lived up to his early promise, should go back to the Ospreys and be Gavin Henson's understudy.
C. Czekaj - 1 - In defense looked like a rabbit caught in a car headlights, in attack totally inept, my grandmother could have kicked better out of hand.
S. Jones - 8 - One of the few shining lights for Wales. Unusually for Stephen he was brilliant in defence, and tried to marshall a number of attacks, great goal kicking as usual.
D. Peel - 4 - Unusually quiet game for the supposedly best scrum half in the Northern hemisphere.
D. Jones, R. Thomas, A. Jones - 2 -
I will lump the front row together as they were collectively CRAP, lost the 1st scrum against the head and it went down hill from there. Only when Gethin Jenkins came on did Wales manage to hold their scum (just).
R. Sidoli - 1 - Seldom have I seen such an inept display from a lock, even if the ball had super glue on it Sidoli would not have caught it.
A W. Jones - 6 - Good game, but nothing outstanding.
A. Popham - 9 - For me the man of the match (on the Welsh side) Huge work rate, some absolutely fantastic tackles, along with Stephen Jones the only Welsh players who wanted to win.
M. Williams - 3 - Anonymouse is the kindest thing I can say.
R. Jones - 4 - Brilliant first half, made the hard yards. Second half, pressed the self destruct button. For a World class back row player hugeley dissapointing performance.
Just what has happened to Welsh rugby? How did Gareth Jenkjins get the job? Just look at his record, what did the Scarlets achieve under his control. Even since he had left they have produced better results.
As far as I am concerned, I do not think we are going to win a single game this 6 Nations, and we are going to be humilliated in the World cup.
It is about time the WRFU stood up and admited that they have got it wrong and they should bend over backwards to bring Mikr Ruddock back. Shoulnd't be too hard now Gareth Thomas isn't going to be around much longer.
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Martyn Williams and Alex Popham where the 2 best Welsh players on the park. I fear without them it would have been a lot worse on Saturday. They were 100% and never gave up when everything else around them was crumbling. I wasnt sure about Popham but this game he really made an impact, I should think Chris Cussiter is sick of the site of him. The back row as a whole seems to be quite well balanced, functioning as well as they can with the (for whatever reasons) stuggling pack they have around them. Not 100% about Ryan, you see him and Popham swapping places at the back of the scrum sometimes, he has been playing well for the Ospreys, and does break the gainline, but has made a few errors at he back of the scrum, if he hits top form next game then his selection will be justified, but I think Wales might benfit by puuting him on the bench and bringing him on with half an hour to go where he would be a good impact player. Perhaps Popham 8, Charvis Blind and obviously Williams Open, who in my view should also be captain. Props, not sure apart from Gethin. Gough or Cobain and Alun Wyn Jones pick themselves. Hooker????? they all have their attributes, but first but surely hitting your jumpers is priority and scrummaging.
Peel, with Phillips on the bench.
10, oh gawd, 10! Try Jones once more without the captaincy, with Hook on the bench to replace him, and he can cover centre as well then. If that fails then next game Hook has to startat 10, because by then we may as well use the rest of this tournament to find a balance for the World Cup.
In an ideal Wales, the backs would pick themselves, but this is not where we are. Morgan F/B, Jones and Williams wings. Alfie to cover for those 3. Centres AAAgggghhh this is the problem area in the backs right now. Oh for a Scott Gibbs right now, the closest we have is Shanklin, but not a lot of game time,but if he starts and hits form then him and Kevin Morgan do seem to click, remember back to 05 and they scored 2 almost identical tries against Ireland and Scotland. Its a risk I know but we have to do something, our centre pairing is just to weak and undynamic right now. Last of all,dare I say Henson, not happy about this one, but selecting him could just be the catalyst he needs to get him going again. If he is right, then he gives 10 some more options, should distribute well and his all round kicking (goal and out of hand) should be usefull. As someone has already said, other teams are very wary of him as they know what he is "capable" of.
I hope I havent offended anyone, these are just the way I see things at the moment, I may be way off the mark, all I know is if we carry on with more of the same then I cant see us winning a game this six nations.
Regards
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Hi Gareth,
while I agree with most of what you said, I cant agree with your assessment of Martyn Williams. I am assuming you have played rugby, and if so you would surely see the dirty work Martyn was doing on the floor. He won 2 turnovers on his own, which at this level you should not be able to do, and his workrate was as high as ever.
I mean no malice in this reply, isnt it strange how two people see different things in the same game.
Just out of interest, did you feel the ref in this game spent too much time at he ruck looking behind him at the offside line and missing a lot of errors/foul play/ and misdemeanours by both sides? Often wondered why the linesmen cant watch for offside, leaving the ref to concentrate on the breakdown.
Regards Dai
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I was at Murrayfield on Sat and I don't think either team had the most memorable game. However it is the atmosphere that makes an occasion like this and it was so good to see so many Scots and Welsh mixing with each other (must be the Celtic blood in us). Thank you Wales for sending up so many loyal fans and we look forward to seeing you in 2 years time. Haste ye back!
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There has been a lot of sensible comments on the this blog and I agree with a lot of the comments made. Although proudly Welsh I was bought up in England so the East/West rivalry doesn't affect me quite so much. I think the team that was chosen on Saturday was the best he could have with the following two comments:-
1) Why isn't Cockbain being chosen - he is a nasty piece of work who gets under the skin of the opposition - He is good honest donkey!
2) Why play about with the front row quite so much - having two different front rows in the first two matches isn't conducive to a good team. There needs to be stability in that position.
There have been comments about Ryan Jones - He is a superb back row player and he can play blind side or No.8. There has been some short term memories about his man of the match perfomances at No.8 for the Lions (Don't shoot me if he played Blind!).
As far as the backs are concerned - they do seem to lack penetration however I am a forward myself and sometimes I find back play a little confusing. So I'll leave the backs to the experts....
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I Lurrvvee Steven Jones so much! Hes Lursh and 1 of the best rugby players ever! N Hes so kind coz i met him in Cardiff Before! Mwahh!
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Mike Ruddock - Nicknamed 'The Bus' by the players, because the was no 'Coach', the grand slam had little to do with Ruddock. Bringing Ruddock back will do nothing for the situation we are in, just more of the same.
The reason Jenkins did not get the job in the first place was because he was unwilling to work with Johnson and the team in place at the time, the team that gave us the Slam. Now that team has gone we have lost our way. Coincidence? I think not. Hansen and Johnson created a team and Hoare give them fitness to perform, in typical Welsh fashion a Welshman is destroying it in record time.
We are not going to win one game this 6 nations, Gareth Jenkins wants to be judged on his record, it isnt looking too good at the moment is it?
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i reckon this would be a great line up..there is plenty of muscle up front and a lot of pace in the back three. Hook could control the game and shanklin-parker have played well together before offering stability.
1.g. jenkins
2.m. rees
3.c.horsman
4. b.cockbain
5. a. w. jones
6. a. popham
7. m. williams
8. r. jones
9. d. peel
10. j. hook
11. s. williams
12. t. shanklin
13. s. parker
14. m. jones
15. k. morgan
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Typing this in work in reflection on a poor performance - not the way I'd expected to start Monday morning but never the less...
I've rarely seen a side with less agression and commitment than what Wales put out on Saturday. There was no-one breaking the gain line at all (apart from Shanklin when he came on) and too many people (forwards inparticular) getting isolated at the breakdown. Cusiter and the Scottish back row must have thought it was Christmas come early!
Stephen Jones has to be dropped and the captaincy passed on - it's clearly affecting his game and no-one is riling the players up at all. If anyone should be given the captaincy it should be Dwayne Peel - he's looked the most competitive and aggressive player so far in the competition.
Team for France should be:
15. Morgan
14. Mark Jones
13. Shanklin
12. Henson
11. Shane
10. Hook
9. Peel
1. Jenkins
2. Rees
3. Horsman
4. Sidoli
5. Alun Wyn Jones
6. Morgan
7. Williams
8. Popham
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What a difference two years makes...back to work in a pit of despair rather than with my chest puffed out and a smile as wide as the mouth of the Severn.
On the face of it Saturday was as inept a performance as I have seen from Wales in the last 20 years.
Gareth must take criticism for selection following the Ireland game - a game in which we were strong up front but lacked the firepower behind. I would have left the pack as it was (possibly with the exception of Horseman) and lined up with a stronger back line with those returning from injury.
Individually, Popham & Williams stood out, the latter surely the natural captain.
Czekaj - painfully out of his depth in all aspects - Brew looked a far better bet in Shane's absence when he came on against Ireland
Hook - needs to raise his game before I will be convinced - tournament is gone now play him at 10
For me the back line against France has to be:
9 Peel
10 Hook
11 Williams
12 Henson
13 Shanklin
14 Jones
15 Morgan
Are you listening Mr Jenkins????
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The Llanelli team is proving no more successful than the Neath team of years before.Gareth brought his mate in,made his other mate captain(having brought him back from France)then added a no8 and hooker to make sure!already had the no9(top class)anyway.So how are the Scarlets doing in the 6 nations...not very well.
I suggest we first eliminate the players who cannot compete on current form at this level,or are simply not ready yet.
Out go. Cjekai(too soon),Sweeney(no class)Robinson(lost pace)Brew(far too soon)Sidoli(not fit)
We should be seeking blend and direction which does not mean playing the most famous names in every position.It has never and will never work!!!
We play 2x10,and 2x8 Why?If RJones plays,Popham gets the bench.If Jones plays ,Hook gets the bench.Simple..
are you following Gareth?
Where are Cockbain(fit again)Charvis(French nemesis)Shane (fit again) and Henson???I am not surprised he isnt playing well.Welshhero,Lions12
-oh hes got a bit famous lets leave him out.On bad form he is still better than any of the others-pathetic management of a Star Player-Yes we made him a star!!!
Lee Byrne,Mike Phillips and M Watkins deserve to be seen too.
So Llanelli managers do some managing or those big salaries willdisappear into the mist like the 2005 Grand Slam. KS
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I regret that Wales' display on the weekend can best be described as impotent. Wales started badly and were never able to establish themselves in the game. Careless errors prevented them from developing any meaningful passages of play. Scott Murray (and later Hines) were immense for Scotland and they clearly missed them badly against England.
Wales are a 'confidence team'. When playing with confidence the backs (and back row) can pull off the rugby that won the Grand Slam. Without it, doubts creep in and their expansive game becomes very vulnerable and predictable. If Wales had won their first game against Ireland, I strongly suspect they would have played immeasurably better. But they didn't, and they currently lack the strong leaders in the team and the coaching staff to give them self-belief. That doesn't mean they don't try, which they clearly did as the defensive display demonstrated.
As to selection, I have no big issues about the forwards selection. Line-out throwing is a perennial problem and I am puzzled why our front row have not gone on from 2005. The hype about Horsman appears just that at the moment.
In the backs Czekaj looks out of his depth in international rugby. I too was bemused why he is doing so much of the kicking for touch.Wales have badly missed the cutting edge of Shane Williams and his return will be a big plus.
Stephen Jones and James Hook should not play together but operate as Ronan O'Gara and David Humphreys did for Ireland. One should start and the other come on later if the game needs re-direction. Shanklin is a must in the centres and, in the absence of another clear pick at centre, I would back Henson despite his current lack of form. If we are to do well in the World Cup, we need game-winners like Henson back in form and quite frankly now that our hopes of doing well in the Six Nations
are over we should use this opportunity to play him again. The current batch of fill-ins (Robinson, Luscombe, etc) are never going to do the business against the top teams. Henson has shown he has the weight of pass and sufficient vision to make line-breaks in international rugby when in form. And, of course, he has a big boot. Kevin Morgan is a cert as one of the few players who has played well so far.
Finally, I think the coaches must bear a lot of the responsibility for the current malaise. When I listen to Gareth Jenkins, he sounds like a very nice man lacking in the guile and progressive ideas that can out-think other teams. Wales look rudderless.
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Gareth has it about right, except for the Martin Williams rating.
What is interesting though is that this team is the backbone of the Grand Slam team, when we were told that they were young and could only get better, and almost the same team that decimated Scotland up front last year. Add in Popham (who is a class act) and Ryan Jones (unfortunately sometimes leaves his brain in the dressing room) to that pack and we should have expected an even better display.
So, with this material back at his disposal after all the injuries last year, a major question mark has to hang over Gareth Jenkins and his coaching team. I appreciate that Nigel Davies and Robin McBryde are his "proteges" and came as a package from the Scarlets but was their employment just nepotism and are they all really fit for purpose as a coaching team on the international rugby scene? They seem to be learning their trade as they go along and it is taking some time.
Or is it that the other countries have done their homework and sussed out how to deal with the "Welsh Way", hence the inability to score any tries?
I suspect a lot of the former and a bit of the latter.
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How has everyone missed the contribution (or lack of) from Chris Czekaj. He was horrendous against Ireland, having a hand in each of their tries. He just cant tackle and is too lightweight. Mark Jones showed how to tackle as a winger on saturday, what a legend.
Lastly, why is Henson being vilified? I honestly think he has had too much stick for off field events. Judge him on his rugby and he is sure to make an immpact. After all, who cares what he gets upto with his bird as long as he does the job come the match.
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being 1 of many disgruntled welshman and women who travelled a long way up to scotland to watch a wales side play as badly as that i feel i need to let off steam!! i arrived at the ground at 2.15 with kick off a meagre 75 minutes away and the welsh team arrived shortly afterwards!! i thought to myself hmm that doesnt give them much time to warm up and get focused for the game! so its now 2.25 scotland are out warming up going through drills and kicks! wales nowhere to be seen!! wales do finally come out in the shape of s.jones kicking from potential penalty areas and a few others are about doing the odd stretch and back in they go! For top level proffesionals to prepare like that for an international game is a disgrace! Ive seen saturday league sides prepare better. Its no suprise that wales were so abysmal saturday! we do lack a bit of quality and jones kicking was dire! I do think amongst all the bad points alex poppham was immense for wales just seemed like he didnt stop running or tackling! maybe its the mad hairdo that made him stand out more but thought he was brill! get the big porridge stirer out for the welshboys
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I agree with most selections for the France game especially the need for balance in the team. I would jettison Rhys Thomas and give Matthew Rees a chance, bring back Cockbain, give Charvis a run at 7 (no reflection on Williams), bring in Henson for Hook, drop Czekaj for Williams and bring back Shanks for Robinson.
I think the biggest thing is to give Stephen Jones the support he needs and in Henson we have a world class player who can take some of the decision making from Jones. I'm fed up of people criticising the bloke because he doesn't win every game he plays on his own - pure jealousy if you ask me. Jones - Henson - Shanklin would give Wales are far more daunting look.
Here is my team:
15.Morgan
14.Jones
13.Shanklin
12.Henson
11.Williams
10.Jones (C)
9.Peel
8.Jones
7.Charvis (Still has what it takes)
6.Popham
5.Wyn Jones
4. Cockbain
3.Jones
2.Rees
1.Jenkins
Bench - Phillips, Hook, Alfie, Horsman, Mefin Davis, John Thomas, Martin Williams.
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Well I'm tired of hearing about 'sexy' rugby, the edge, the welsh way or whatever else you want to call it. Had enough of people talking about the 70s and gabbling on about Gareth, Barry / Phil, JJ, JPR yakka yakka yak and about how Arwel or Hook (all of a sudden he's not the new messiah! amazing) or whoever is the 'new Barry'. Since the 70's there's been a host of world class back lines in Wales. You'd have to go a long way to beat Howley, Jenks (or Davies), Gibbs and Bateman - ok league meant we didn't see them together that much but there was plenty of quality behind them too. For me the difference in 2005 was a pack that gelled, did the hard work and (collectively) played above themselves - the 'sexy' rugby only works once you've taken on the oppositions' scrum and ground them down. It was worrying to see them creaking on Saturday but with hard work and right mental preparation they can be right back in it. Personally a key part of that pack was Cockbain and I'm hoping to see him back to his best soon. Yes - Wales still needs the quality behind, and some on Saturday looked uncomfortable at International level at the moment, but we never win when we talk about sexy rugby. We win when we talk about getting stuck into the opposition (if the Irish performance had been repeated I think we'd have won). So debate about the balance of the backline and who should / shouldn't be in the team if you wish but I'd rather hear about hard work and hard yards. And for heaven's sake -the next time somebody in the media mentions the 70s perhaps we could have a mention for the people who really created that golden era - the Ponty front row, Taylor, Merve and the rest of the pack.
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15. morgan - 5
14. jones - 6
13. robinson - 4
12. hook - 4
11. czekaj -3
10. jones - 7
9. peel - 5
8. jones - 5
7. wiliams - 6
6. popham - 7
5. wyn-jones - 5
4. sidoli - 4
3, 2 & 1. - 3
couldnt attack for toffee n wished they had somethin sticky on their hands so they could catch. good defensive effort however it was aided by blunt scottish wingers and a lack of support
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Agree terrible camera work. Ditto at Twickenham - too many close-ups on the pitch and in the crowd.
I go along with the posts to give Captaincy to Martyn Williams (passionate and a thinker and had a great game - why did they take him off??). Let S.Jones have a game without the burden to see if he can get his brio back. He doesn't threaten to break the line and that puts pressure on his centres. Hook can come off the bench as impact. Henson must be inside centre with Shanklin outside, W.Williams and M.Jones on wings and Morgan at 15.
Ryan Jones is too slow of thought for no.8 so again an impact player off the bench - Popham no.8 and Charvis at 6.
Jenkins and Horseman must start as props but where do we get a decent hooker from ??
Sorry but sidoli is not an international class lock. Gough or Cockbain plus AW Jones.
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Never posted before but i feel obliged by the wales played on saturday.
Gareth Jenkins should go, since he's taken over the whole team seems to have shrunk in stature. I think it is his petty mindedness that is stifling the team.
Tactics all wromg and i know hensons not been in the best of form, but with a depleted team we need him, he can cover two positions easily and i just think its Jenkin's childish behaviour that is keeping him out of the team, he obviously hates him and while i'm no big fan opf his attitude Jenkins needs to get over it.
SACK, SACK, SACK
Or have our standards suddenly slipped and we just accept such a bad run of performances?
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my team wuld be
1. Horsman
2. Rees (better line out thrower)
3. A.Jones
4. Alan wyn jones
5. Morgan (deserves his chance)
6. Charvis (deserves his chance)
7. J.Thomas
8. Popham
9. Peel
10.Hook (best position)
11.Shanklin(better than williams)
12.Henson (best position)
13.Robinson (deserves his place)
14.M.Jones
15 Morgan
Bench
16.Thomas
17.Jenkins
18. Gough
19. R.Jones
20.Phillips
21.S.Jones (not good enough to start at the mo)
22.S.Williams (not good enough to start at the mo)
I think that alfie and sidoli are past it,m.williams isn't like he used to be, shane will get back in the team for the world cup but not at the mo and hook and henson work best at 10 & 12
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I have read alot of late on the Welsh game. I cannot sleep at night over it. Does anyone remember the real dark times, well after Murryfield, they look set to return. I urge you all to send your opinions to Gareth Jenkins. He is the right guy. I would prefer Ruddock back but the players would not play well. Its all about selection, all our boys are back, lets get them in there playing rugby together, forget form the stats speak for themselves. The combination was right in 2005 those players are there now. We have nothing to lose now, come on we all want to see the big names back. Remember we all want to see exciting Rugby. This is my choice
The same pack as faced Ireland
then backs
Peel
Jones/Hook
Henson
Shanklin
Shane
Mark
Kevin
If other famous players are back then I would change but this is who we have now. We will ahve those Frenchies Come on Wales! Lets get behind them lads!
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Maybe Wales has to accept there just not as good as they thought they were. One Grand Slam was all that seperated this wales team to the old ones that were labelled "the village idoits of rugby" by the new zealand press
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The whole pack needs to be reviewed. Horsman and Duncan Jones should start at the front and Matthew Rees at hooker. Cockbain needs to start against France partnered with either Gough or Alun Wyn Jones. As for the back row, Scott Morgan should be brought in at 8 and Colin Charvis at 6. Gavin Henson needs to make a start and Tom Shanklin and Dafydd James should also be given a place in
the backs against France. Stephen Jones, meanwhile, should not retain the captaincy; it should be passed on to either Martyn Williams or Dwayne Peel.
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The whole pack needs to be reviewed. Horsman and Duncan Jones should start at the front and Matthew Rees at hooker. Cockbain needs to start against France partnered with either Gough or Alun Wyn Jones. As for the back row, Scott Morgan should be brought in at 8 and Colin Charvis at 6. Gavin Henson needs to make a start and Tom Shanklin and Dafydd James should also be given a place in
the backs against France. Stephen Jones, meanwhile, should not retain the captaincy; it should be passed on to either Martyn Williams or Dwayne Peel.
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I agree with David (#44). we lost the game up front. No point playing sexy rugby if you can't get the ball.
As for comment 48, what do the Kiwis know about rugby???
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I agree with David (#44). we lost the game up front. No point playing sexy rugby if you can't get the ball.
As for comment 48, what do the Kiwis know about rugby???
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Team that should play rest of 6 nations
1.g. jenkins
2.m. rees
3.c.horsman
4. b.cockbain
5. i. gough
6. a. popham
7. m. williams (possible captian)
8. r. jones
9. d. peel
10. j. hook (or jones if not captain)
11. s. williams
12. g. henson (if he plays well for osperys on weekend)
13. t. shanklin
14. m. jones
15. k. morgan
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if the tools are not in the box ,the job cant be done
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Ok here goes, (theres a lot to put right here!) I almost slipped into a deep depression on Saturday afternoon watching a Wales side look incapable of stringing their boot laces up nevermind phases of play which might end up in a try. Yes thats T-R-Y remember those. If any of the representatives of our great rugby nation are browsing these pages Dictionary.com refers to it as "a score of three points earned by advancing the ball to or beyond the opponents' goal line." (a bit out of date maybe but you get the point!)
I am laying a large proportion of the blame for Saturday's mis-adventure at the feet of Gareth Jenkins who doesn't seem to bring this undoubtedly talented group of players together pulling in the same direction. However there are enough experienced heads out on the field to conjure up a game plan enough to beat one of the poorer teams in this years six nations.
Selection also must play a part :
Czecaj(?) is clearly not ready for international rugby, Aled Brew looked strong when he came on against ireland so why drop him from the squad? Hopefully Shane Williams will be back soon.
Robinson in the centres. I know we had limited options but he has shown very little in 2 matches and the pass he flung 5 feet in front of Mark Jones then for Paterson to almost score from showed a lack of confidence/skill/concentration?
Front Row need to get their act together whoever plays there. Please please stop picking sides depending on the opposition. It doesnt work (re: NZ in the autumn) Pick your best players and stick with them which leads to stability and a team spirit.
Finally lets get back to what we are good at, quick ruck ball, several phases, offloads in the tackle giving space out wide that even Jamie Robinson couldn't fail to exploit! END OF RANT!
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Ok here goes, (theres a lot to put right here!) I almost slipped into a deep depression on Saturday afternoon watching a Wales side look incapable of stringing their boot laces up nevermind phases of play which might end up in a try. Yes thats T-R-Y remember those. If any of the representatives of our great rugby nation are browsing these pages Dictionary.com refers to it as "a score of three points earned by advancing the ball to or beyond the opponents' goal line." (a bit out of date maybe but you get the point!)
I am laying a large proportion of the blame for Saturday's mis-adventure at the feet of Gareth Jenkins who doesn't seem to bring this undoubtedly talented group of players together pulling in the same direction. However there are enough experienced heads out on the field to conjure up a game plan enough to beat one of the poorer teams in this years six nations.
Selection also must play a part :
Czecaj(?) is clearly not ready for international rugby, Aled Brew looked strong when he came on against ireland so why drop him from the squad? Hopefully Shane Williams will be back soon.
Robinson in the centres. I know we had limited options but he has shown very little in 2 matches and the pass he flung 5 feet in front of Mark Jones then for Paterson to almost score from showed a lack of confidence/skill/concentration?
Front Row need to get their act together whoever plays there. Please please stop picking sides depending on the opposition. It doesnt work (re: NZ in the autumn) Pick your best players and stick with them which leads to stability and a team spirit.
Finally lets get back to what we are good at, quick ruck ball, several phases, offloads in the tackle giving space out wide that even Jamie Robinson couldn't fail to exploit! END OF RANT!
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Didn't think there was much of an edge on a wooden spoon!!
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Didn't think a wooden spoon had an edge!!!
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Is Iestyn Harris available ?
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hi i am archie and i support wales i disagree with the wales coach.this is my wales 22
1 G.Jenkins
2 R.Thomas
3 C.Horseman
4 I.Gough
5 A.Wyn Jones
6 A.Popham
7 M.Williams(captain)
8 R.Jones
9 D.Peel
10 J.Hook
11 S.Williams(if fit)if not Alfie
12 G.Henson
13 T.Shanklin
14 M.Jones (if fit)if not Czekaj
15 K.Morgan
16 T.Rees
17 D.Jones
18 R.Sidoli
19 G.Thomas
20 M.Phillips
21 S.Jones(he is not playing well)
22 Alfie (if he is not suspended) if not Czekaj
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hi i am archie and i support wales i disagree with the wales coach.this is my wales 22
1 G.Jenkins
2 R.Thomas
3 C.Horseman
4 I.Gough
5 A.Wyn Jones
6 A.Popham
7 M.Williams(captain)
8 R.Jones
9 D.Peel
10 J.Hook
11 S.Williams(if fit)if not Alfie
12 G.Henson
13 T.Shanklin
14 M.Jones (if fit)if not Czekaj
15 K.Morgan
16 T.Rees
17 D.Jones
18 R.Sidoli
19 G.Thomas
20 M.Phillips
21 S.Jones(he is not playing well)
22 Alfie (if he is not suspended) if not Czekaj
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hi i am archie and i support wales i disagree with the wales coach.this is my wales 22
1 G.Jenkins
2 R.Thomas
3 C.Horseman
4 I.Gough
5 A.Wyn Jones
6 A.Popham
7 M.Williams(captain)
8 R.Jones
9 D.Peel
10 J.Hook
11 S.Williams(if fit)if not Alfie
12 G.Henson
13 T.Shanklin
14 M.Jones (if fit)if not Czekaj
15 K.Morgan
16 T.Rees
17 D.Jones
18 R.Sidoli
19 G.Thomas
20 M.Phillips
21 S.Jones(he is not playing well)
22 Alfie (if he is not suspended) if not Czekaj
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hi i am archie and i support wales i disagree with the wales coach.this is my wales 22
1 G.Jenkins
2 R.Thomas
3 C.Horseman
4 I.Gough
5 A.Wyn Jones
6 A.Popham
7 M.Williams(captain)
8 R.Jones
9 D.Peel
10 J.Hook
11 S.Williams(if fit)if not Alfie
12 G.Henson
13 T.Shanklin
14 M.Jones (if fit)if not Czekaj
15 K.Morgan
16 T.Rees
17 D.Jones
18 R.Sidoli
19 G.Thomas
20 M.Phillips
21 S.Jones(he is not playing well)
22 Alfie (if he is not suspended) if not Czekaj
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Poor game saturday, we looked a poor uncreative side,i think a few changes are needed in the backs, we needed more pace out wide and power and strong running in the centre,with the pack i think gethin jenkins has got to start he is a better all round player than duncan jones, ian gough should have started along side alun wyn jones, hes is 100% comitted, back row is very strong, and in the back, shanklin has to come in with his angles of running and power and shane williams is obvious choice at eleven.
1.G.Jenkins
2.R.Thomas
3.A.Jones
4.I.Gough
5.A. Wyn Jones
6.A.Popham
7.M.Williams (c)
8.R.Jones
9.D.Peel
10.S.Jones
11.S.Williams
12.J.Hook
13.T.Shanklin
14.M.Jones
15.K.Morgan
subs...D.Jones
M.Rees
B.Cockbain(Not enough game time)
C.Charvis(still has it)
M.phillips
G.Henson
G.Thomas
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Mr Davies, thanks for ammending your blog, if I were Welsh I'd be trying to forget that day as well ;)
But just to point out, the link still goes to the Irish game.
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I agree with Mr Robbo (#57/58).
We should pick our best 15 to play the way we want to play, no matter who the opposition are. It sends out a challenge to the opposition: this is who we are and this is how we play the game, now what are you going to do about it to stop it?
And we need to get the basics right, and I mean the basics. Solid scrum, good strong rucking (if the ball is being slowed down, run your studs over the offender) and good lineouts.
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In response to Dai at post 30.
I was up in the stands at the game in Murrayfied, so did not have the benefit of TV, nor did I have a good view of the pathetically small screens there.
So I take what you said about Martyn Williams, I was supprised at what I thought was a mediocre game by his standards, I now understand that he was up to his usual best.
Thanks for putting me straight.
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I've just managed to bring myself together after Saturday's woeful performance. I would have put money on us winning the Scottish game before the tournament started - how worng I was! Fair play to the Scottish boys, they played to their strenghts and got the job done. In fact, they played above themselves, and have given real heart for the rest of their campaign. Wooden spoon? I think not - we are on the verge of geting it, unless we can change things around FAST.
I agree with teh Stephen Jones - as captain - dilemma. He simply isn't the best 10 in Wales. Hook has to have his chance. He's assured and better at 10 then Jones. He's quicker, more inventive and although still young, is god enough to mold into the role at international level ready for the RWC. Martyn Williams is the only man on the pitch that is our born leader. He has to have it. Give him captaincy, remove Czekaj (two opportunities now, and so far off the pace, it's like he's playing at schools level). Get Hnson back in. How Jenkins can claim he's not playing well and then has someone like Czekaj in, amazes me.
It;s not all doom and gloom, but there are real problems there. The forwards battled admirably, even tho they are still not strong enough to match the big pack, I wonder if we can try and introduce some ball carrying forwards like Michael Owen - not a big hitter, but a great handler of the ball at 8. We don't have the muscle in the pack to worry england, Ireland or France... but what we do have is natural flair. I'm not going to harp on about it, but when we play with flair we win games. We DO have the right players - but Jenkins isn't picking them. It's been awful because of team selection and that's the Coach's fault.
This should be the final wrning to Jenkins - stop playing Jones, let Hook have a go. Get Henson in and look at the succcess of the Grand Slam team - we could be even better with Hook atarting with the same team as '05. Otherwise, even though we will probably lose to France anyway, it could be another thumping and ruin the foundations Mike put in place two years ago.
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ive gotta say (and im english!), wales have potentially a fantastic team...hard hitting mobile forwards & a fantastic backline
but, and i know he's had a dip in form, Henson should at least be in the 22 - you should've stuffed the scots...hopefully you'll do better nxt game (and perhaps a laps in form v. england ;-)
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Matt what rugby have you been watching? England should have lost on sat according to your reasoning. Totally out-muscled upfront by the italians and lacking any creativity outside your only saving grace the over-rated JW bar help for another try by the ref. Wales have scored no tries but england have really only scored one.
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One average performance, one poor performance, wooden spoon?...No (if things get changed before France).
I do not have much knowledge of forward play so I wont comment to much on this. But what I will say is the forwards need to play well for the backs to be able to play the "Welsh Way" which is I dont care what people say a winning way! however the forward platform must be in place, which I am sorry to say it is not at present. We can all agree that generally the forward play has been poor! but there were some shinning lights AWJ,+ back row.
For the backs; Peel is untouchable (preforms well even with a poor pack infront of him), S Jones and Hook can't be in the same 15( ie Lampard & Ger...) but they must be in the same 22. Henson must play for two reasons he gives an extra kicking option(a big one at that out of hand or off the floor), also the fact that he has reputation means he will draw players to him creating space for the pace men outside him. Everyone forgets how strong he is (ie only had five minutes against New Zealand broke their line twice one from good strength and a physical hand off and one from a good running angle.) His distribution also speaks for itself. Shanklin is fit so he will be back in the team and rightly so. A good runner, ball carrier, tackler who adds strength something missing from the backline of recent games. The wingers pick themselves especially Mark Jones after showing he is also up to the defening aspect of international rugby, him and S Williams pace is almost unmatched in the six nations. Kevin Morgans injury is a big blow as he has been in brilliant form of late, G thomas is still banned so Lee Bryne should expect the call if he is solid for the Ospreys on the weekend(Possesses good strength, tackling and speed).
The bench:- Mike Phillips (shame we have two world class scrum halves).
Hook or S Jones depending who starts.
Hal Lus or D James (gives solid centre/wing option).
C Charvis (gives good back/second row options).
I will leave the remaing forward
replacements to someone with more knowledge of this area.
We now have the tag we play best with "Underdogs" so lets play the best!
Will Hathaway
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