Moore blast provides perfect Irish pep
- 23 Feb 07, 02:14 PM
Dublin – There's one sure thing that unites Irishmen and that is a confrontation with the English. Somehow, I suspect it could be the same with the Welsh and Scottish, but don’t quote me!
And if there's one thing that really fuses the Irish together, then it's when an Englishman says that they're not really up to it. Well, the ´óÏó´«Ã½â€™s very own Brian Moore has now given Irish coach Eddie O’Sullivan the perfect motivational material for his pre-match pep-talk.
"Ireland can take no comfort after choking - again," was the headline on Moore's usual hard-hitting column in the Daily Telegraph column following the last-minute defeat to France.
And when ´óÏó´«Ã½ Northern Ireland’s took him to task for his views - and indeed general Irish perceptions of bias - Moore, in his typical Pit Bull style, took an even harder line - insisting: "If people are honest in Ireland they ought to be furious about this because the team has blown yet another Grand Slam".
Indeed Moore's staunch 20-minute defence of his views on Ireland "blowing it again" and rebuttal of allegations of bias have struck such a chord with the Irish management team that they arranged for the video to be transported down to the team HQ in Killiney earlier this week.
Not that Ireland will need any motivating on Saturday.
Below is a taste of what he had to say in the interview that aired last week - and you can .
Ireland could and should have won that game but didn’t. Yet again. They might not like it, but they choked. They've won one Grand Slam since the War, and to make matters worse for a lot of those years, people have said 'Watch Ireland this year'. This year was going to be their primary year - the fixtures fell well etc. But yet again they have just not managed it. I can understand people in Ireland getting a bit upset about comments like this. But frankly this is what it is all about. Is it enough to come very close? It's not good enough to say 'Great spirit,' or 'Great occasion and we were all very passionate and what a fantastic game'. All that matters is winning, especially if you get yourselves into a position (as against France) where if you do one simple thing right you do win, and then fail to do that."
Maybe in this age of professionalism he has a point?
As for accusations he is anti-Irish and pro-English, he went on:
“Irish fans think I’m biased. Well, they're wrong. It’s as simple as that. What I found with all the allegations of bias is that generally it reflects the prejudices of people who make the complaints. I generally try to call each bit as I see it. Sometimes I might get it wrong. And if there is an England bias - which I don’t think there is - it is sub-conscious and I cannot do anything about it. But if you ask a lot of England players.. I've been very hard on England principally because I used to play for them and I expect more from them."
Moore will be on duty at Croker on Saturday beside his erstwhile sparring partner Eddie Butler, although ´óÏó´«Ã½ Northern Ireland has opted out of national coverage and has its own bearded pugilist Jim Neilly and former Ireland wing Tyrone Howe on the cans.
But if the Irish players want to pump themselves up before the game, then Moore's little cameo is on their laptops to get the adrenalin flowing.
So you can be assured that the date with France will be like a quintessential Dublin manor tea party compared to what will be served up on Saturday.
Tickets are still like hen’s teeth, bar a few exceptions.
Particularly happy will be those residents around Jones’s Road who have been allocated 250 of the precious pieces of cardboard for the inconvenience.
Around 2,000 tickets have been distributed to the corporate sector now there are hospitality suites; the VIP list runs to a cast of thousands; each former Ireland international is allowed to buy a couple each; the RFU was given 7,500 and each club in Ireland has on average received an extra 15% allocation.
So everyone is happy … even the IRFU committee members who, at late notice, have the almost-completed, newly-renovated five-star for their own exclusive use this weekend.
The sudden change of plans to leave their usual residence at the Berkeley Court Hotel just 100 yards from the old Lansdowne Road, has given English visitors a late bonus in the search for a place to lay one’s sore head with 50 rooms becoming available.
At 440 euros a pop for room only, it is going to be a very expensive weekend for the visitors, particularly when some are believed to be … and all to watch Ireland defeat England for the fourth successive occasion.
Wales 27-18 England
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Hard man, Mr Moore. You get exactly that from him. In anything.
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As an Irishman, Brian Moore is dead right. That reflects the kind of Roy Keane attitude needed if you really want to be winners.
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Have to say the comments by Moore are pretty much spot on. If you build yourselves up as the form team of the tournament you've got to close the deal and Ireland simply didn't/couldn't against France. The hard truth is that they've not played up to the Irish media/public expectations - which I think are unrealistic - and are still a very limited team. Particularly, when you compare them to a full strength AB/SA/Aus teams - aside from the ABs they haven't played a full strength Aus/SA side for some time. As for Moore being biased in his opinons. Well, I'm based in Chicago and have to watch the games on Setanta sports. The commentary provided is probably the most one-eyed and pro-Irish that I've ever heard on TV. The real problem with Brian Moore is that he's simply too honest and his comments reflect exactly what he sees on the pitch. This, in my view, is quite refreshing.
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Brian Moore does have a point. In short, delivery at all costs is the name of the game. England may have been pants against Italy (well done to them) but a win is a win. I guarantee if we scrape through with a penalty in the 17th minute of injury time by JW and win, it will be heralded as one of the best wins ever.
If we choke at Croke, we deserve all we get. Georgy Chuter has the plan already, do what we do, stick to what we do and we will win. Succomb to the "occasion" and we could face a biffing.
Good luck to all I say.
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Have to say the comments by Moore are pretty much spot on. If you build yourselves up as the form team of the tournament you've got to close the deal and Ireland simply didn't/couldn't against France. The hard truth is that they've not played up to the Irish media/public expectations - which I think are unrealistic - and are still a very limited team. Particularly, when you compare them to a full strength AB/SA/Aus teams - aside from the ABs they haven't played a full strength Aus/SA side for some time. As for Moore being biased in his opinons. Well, I'm based in Chicago and have to watch the games on Setanta sports. The commentary provided is probably the most one-eyed and pro-Irish that I've ever heard on TV. The real problem with Brian Moore is that he's simply too honest and his comments reflect exactly what he sees on the pitch. This, in my view, is quite refreshing.
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Ireland did choke in that game. It's a game they should have won.
Moore is telling it as it is.
What exactly is your point?
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What is teh problem with a former english player saying what he believes about the sport he used to play. The Irish may and probably should win te game on Sunday, but that is only because of the failing s of te english management. I am confident under the new regiem that we will come back stronger and then once again rule Europe especially the home nations. WEhat did he say that was wrong...that the Irish have chocked? well they did...that you should have won the tournament..well with a settled team and some world class players (BOD, ROG) they maybe should. I am fed up with the hypocrasy with the Welsh and the Irish, some englishmen are patriotic (i am talking sport here nothing else) and proud of it. A little like a certain Mr Davies....but you here nothing of that. I so hope we win on saturday, even if we don't we will be grand slam champions very soon.
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The problem is all the ´óÏó´«Ã½ commentary team and pundits are biased. Quite simply the ´óÏó´«Ã½ have failed to find a replacement for Bill MaClaren. None of the current bunch have any skill as commentators, and are reduced to making banal comments which then come across as bias.
Commentating seems to be a dying art, the only one I can think of fit to clean MaClaren's shoes is Sid Wadell. Perhaps he should be seconded to the rugby.
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Jim you didnt say one bad word about the south of ireland, are you ok???
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I think Brian's comments about the Irish performance, choking, against France are spot on. However I think he could have added that he was gutted for them! Watching the game, even as an Englishman, I certainly was. I can remember too many instances of the same thing happening to the English team, Scott Gibbs last minute (converted) try at Wembley to clinch a 32-31 Welsh victory for example, not to feel some empathy. Mind you, I wouldnt complain if there was a repeat Irish choke tomorrow..........
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As a player, I never liked Brian Moore. He was a cocky, gobby git, and he got my back up throughout his playing career. (I'm Irish.)
However, as a rugby commentator and analyst I think he's one of the best in the business. He knows his stuff and he tells it like he sees it.
I do not find Brian excessively pro-English either: on the rare occasions that England play well, of course he makes the most of it. (Nothing much wronf with that.) But when they play badly, he calls it honestly.
As for Ireland choking against France, well, all they (we) had to do was secure the ball froma re-start, get it into touch and it was game over. They didn't. In my view, that's a choke.
Frankly I'd prefer to listen to Brian Moore, who actually says something, than Guscott, Woodie and Jonathan Davies put together.
Ireland to win tomorrow!
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Moore is spot on. If anything, his comment that Ireland blew a Grand Slam is a sort of a compliment; that we're good enough to aim for the Slam in the first place, unlike Ireland teams for most of rugby's history. Hard but fair is my verdict.
(I'm Irish, as one might guess...)
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Being an Irish rugby fan, I'm not surprised by Moore's comments, because he IS right. Ireland did blow it. They blew it in 2001 against Scotland, 2003 against England (though I don't think anybody could have beaten England that day) and last year against France (4 missed tackles, 28 Points shipped). There is no place now for the "ach sure, lets all head down the pub for the craic, and forget about the match" attitude. We need to start winning the Six nations championship on a regular basis. No excuses.
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that would be the grand slam winning and world cup final participating player brian moore.
perhaps he's in a better position to comment than any irishman?
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Brian Moore just loves rugby - yeah, he's possibly a little bit biased but he's bound to be and no more than somebody like Johnathan Davies, but isn't that we want in a commentator??
I'd say that Brian Moore saying that the Irish should be gutted that they're not on course for the Grand Slam (which I would agree with) - they were by far the best team going into the tournament so 'choke' is an apt phrase - is far less offensive than all of the patronising 'chirpy Celt' rubbish that you get across the rest of media.
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I'm English and I'm obviously biased this article is biased, it's almost impossible to be unbiased if your a proper fan. Brian Moore is biased. Altho I do agree with everything he said, the Irish did choke. But to be honest so did the French and they still won, they for me have proven to be the better 'team' and should have won by a clear 20 points.Altho I would mainly blame Eddie O'Sullivan for this, who with the players at his disposable, has achieved nothing, and is a pretty poor coach. I've never seen their back line play to the potential they have even with BOD in it, the best centre in the World. I see Irish club teams with awesome pack power and electric backs week in week out, so surely it can only be the coaches fault? I try and be honest with my appraisal but as an England fan I'm met with such ill founded contempt from other fans, it gets harder and harder not to bite back. As a final point and in defence of Brian Moore, Eddie Butler is equally as biased if not more so.
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To be honest I will admit that Brian Moore can be excruiatingly obnoxious and way out on some of his comments to do with the game, but for once I have to agree with him! (I never thought I would say that!). Ireland could have and should have won that game and they should be furious with themselves. A lack of concentration blew it and they were caught with their pants down by an oportunistic French team who could have given up but didnt. I really feel that this is the difference between Northern and Southern Hemisphere teams, namely NZ. Until Ireland become more ruthless and put teams to the sword at every opportunity then they will always be piped to the post and dissapointed.
Life long Ireland fan
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I’m not entirely sure that the Irish choked against the French, I think it was more a question of thinking that the job was done and collectively switching off for a few crucial seconds.
However, as an Englishman who listens to Brian Moore commentate on England’s games I can assure you that he is as critical of England as anybody else and bias is something that cannot reasonably be levelled at him. I’m sure he’ll give credit where it is due when, and not if, Ireland win tomorrow.
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Moore is absolutly spot on(As usual). This year the Irish have, on paper a superb, well ballanced team of World Beaters; however, as usual they seem to, at the last minute, decide to play silly beggars, and throw it all away. I have tickets for this autumns World Cup. Two are England games, one is an Irish match. I would rather put money on England than on Ireland
They promise so much, and give so little in return.
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I too appreciate the historical significance and, although I despise all that the GAA and rabid nationalists stand for, I can't help thinking there was something noble about the simple gesture of banning all but Gaelic games from the hallowed ground in response to the atrocity. However, history should teach us that to cure the ills of any time that generation must look forward not back. So opening Croke Park to games of English origin is a huge step forward and is to be applauded. Let us hope the match is a fitting tribute to the occasion and that it becomes the story.
I doubt those that fell there all those years ago, men of sport, would want anything other than a true contest. So let both sides do their worst, and may the best team win!
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I read Brians comments through a couple of times and I couldnt read anything inflammatory into them. He is just being honest and as much as it hurts Irish fans they will know deep inside that they have lost a great opportunity.
Don't let the hype of this game obscure a pundits comments (just because he's English).
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I am Irish and have no problem with Brian Moore's comments. He is stating the obvious is he not? I think this is down to sections of the media jumping to a conclusion that these comments would upset and unite all Irish people. The only thing that I am upset about was the result two weeks ago. That and desperate attempts by 'journalists' to invent a story.
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I too appreciate the historical significance and, although I despise all that the GAA and rabid nationalists stand for, I can't help thinking there was something noble about the simple gesture of banning all but Gaelic games from the hallowed ground in response to the atrocity. However, history should teach us that to cure the ills of any time that generation must look forward not back. So opening Croke Park to games of English origin is a huge step forward and is to be applauded. Let us hope the match is a fitting tribute to the occasion and that it becomes the story.
I doubt those that fell there all those years ago, men of sport, would want anything other than a true contest. So let both sides do their worst, and may the best team win!
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Brian Moore has a great and valid point; the public should be disapointed at the way the guys choked! All this talk about being world cup contenders and they cant manage to win when they have slight injuries! He is right the team should have a look at themselves and in this professional era should not make mistakes like those made last week, France are reknowned for that type of play just look at how they finished of the Welsh last year.
Hopefully they will follow all their talk this weekend and execute with a heavy hand!
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what nonsense - remember the flak england took when they failed to win successive grand slams on the last day of the season (in Brian Moore's playing days no less) - no-one accused TV pundit John Jefferys of being anti-english then. remember also the comments from the southern hemisphere knockers immediately prior to the world cup win in 2003 - the only way to answer the criticism is to accept it and respond on the pitch. Brian Moore was correct in saying that Ireland choked - unfortunately for Ireland, win lose or draw against England and the grand slam will still have eluded them.
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Brian Moore has a great and valid point; the public should be disapointed at the way the guys choked! All this talk about being world cup contenders and they cant manage to win when they have slight injuries! He is right the team should have a look at themselves and in this professional era should not make mistakes like those made last week, France are reknowned for that type of play just look at how they finished of the Welsh last year.
Hopefully they will follow all their talk this weekend and execute with a heavy hand!
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Brian Moore is an excellent commentator, his understanding of what happens in the front rows regularly humiliates the referee/personalities we now get to listen to for over 80 minutes. And his analysis of the rest of the game is pretty sharp too. He is about as objective as it gets- on RTE, Ryle Nugent couldn't be more biased if half of his family were playing for Ireland (although the ´óÏó´«Ã½ could learn what an informative and entertaining studio panel sounds like from RTE).
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I don't mind Moore beindg pro-English, as Wood, Davies and Nicol all despair and rejoice equally in their countries fortunes which is to be expected and enjoyed - we need passion from the co-commentators. However Moore clearly has an anti-Irish bias and is obviously relishing in this misguided notion of them as "chokers". This cleverly disguises the three Irish wins over his beloved and his terror at the impending fourth.
I do appreciate that now us Irish should expect nothing but the best and the Roy Keane attitude and all that (something that Keith Wood always put forward when he began to turn our fortunes around) but Moore will never know how mighty proud we always are of the lads. And that is why I really love beating them.
Here's to Saturday - good luck Mooro!
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Brian Moore is very opinionated, and has built his media career on voicing these opinion in a very blunt way. I usually find that I don’t agree with his views, and try to listen to the alternative five live commentary, which I feel sticks to facts about the game rather than, subjective opinions.
I am half Irish, half English, not that really matters, the question is: Is Brian Moore is bias? I don’t think he is really, but I also don’t think his analysis adds to the enjoyment of the game, no matter which country you follow.
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I'd say David Powell' comments are a pretty good call. Except it would be fair to say that along with it he was a pretty good player!
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Brian Moore and Jonathan Davies are the reasons I never watch the ´óÏó´«Ã½'s coverage of 6N both are biased.
The reason the EOS is showing the sportsline interview is the way Moore came across not just what he said, even the presenter and Tyrone Howe were a bit taken back after the clip ended.
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Brian, lets have more!
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As a Scot, I find these comments by Moore hysterical.
I still have the series of "Slambusters" T-shirts, when Gibbs in '99 (Wales, Scotland became 5Nations CHampions for ever), Hodge in '00 (Scotland), Wood in 01 (Ireland) and then the French in 02 did for Englands arrogant slam hopes. Even assumption. We all saw the "England Expects" headlines and then laughed when they choked.
Was Moore playing in '99? Was he playing in '90 when England got thrown back over the border at Murrayfield when Sole walked his players onto the pitch when England expected then?
This just highlight why people find it difficult to support England when ex-players like he, Guscott, Carling and so many of the current ones portray these huge heads.
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I'm sorry but people like Brian Moore (although also harsh on poor english performances) is without question one of the most biased people ever to commentate on the game of rugby. His attitude and snide remarks just enforce stereotypes of english rugby fans being arrogant and conceited. This ultimately doesn't help anyone or the game of rugby!
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Brian, lets have more!
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So Anthony Okeefe by what you're saying surely England recieved an absolutely ludicrous amount of hype as they beat an out of sorts Scotish team well below full strength with the aid of some very dubious decisions indeed at Twickenham. I personally prefer to judge teams by the standard of rugby they produce themselves as oppose to simply the opposition and the result of the match
i said after the France game that i felt ireland did screw it up, but at the end of the day if England put in a performance half as good as Ireland's poor performance (by their standards) then the English team would be pretty happy!
At the end of a long season Ireland ran an almost full strength All Blacks side close in New Zealand. They went on to dominate against a weakened SA side and a decent Australia team. Please remind me how England got on against a very similar SA team in the autumn anyway (narrow controversial win and a loss at Twickenham in case you're memory is as short as it seems!)
As far as this biased commentary you speak of goes...i've lived in england for a long while now and have had to put up with all this rubbish that comes from the supposedly non-biased English commentators! As I'm watching an English channel it is something that i accept but in any case i prefer to make my own judgement about the game.
As far as the team building themselves up as favourites i'd point out that Eddie O'Sullivan was keen to play down this tag. The beauty about sports is that its unpredictable and anything can happen on the day, the best team can have a poor game, make a terrible mistake, an umpiring decision(s) can cost you and you don't neccesarily always get what you deserve...how boring would sport be if this weren't the case?!
I prefer not to count my chickens before they hatch though. England have quality in their 22 and on their day could pose a threat to any team, just as Ireland could demolish England if they come pumped up to the races and England don't turn up
cheers
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I would say Brian Moore is the least biased of the ´óÏó´«Ã½ rugby commenators and pundits. He's usually pretty hard on England and commendably hard on referees who really need to sharpen up at this level. For pure pro-England bias, listen to Nick Mullins. I totally agree with Brian about Ireland. I felt like kicking the TV over when Clerc scored. But let's face it , we're used it.
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Is this all because in your last blog you said England might win and you got barracked by Irish fans for being disloyal? Are you trying to win back Irish support with stirring up a bit of anti-Englishness and rasict slurs at Moore.
Can we take off the Irish xenophobic specs (there seem to be too many of them around at the moment) and read what Moore is actually saying. He clearly held the Irish team in the highest regard, 6N favourites & he expected them to win, you didn't because, yes, you choked.
I have no problem a commentator wanting the team he once played for to win, it's only natural, but they must be fair in how they technically assess what goes on in the game. Moore is always fair (or makes a joke out of any selective bias), if anything I find he's more abusive to England players when they make mistakes.
Maybe unfair criticism is something you're learning doing this blog!?
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don't really have a problem with Moore's comments themselves.
His commentry though never really gives credit to the opposing team - remember him in last year's Ire v Eng match last year? Woody couldn't believe how little credit he afforded Ireland for wining the match. He could only talk about England's shortcomings and came across as sour grapes - i.e. had England not made these mistakes then....
After losing to France this year he had a go back at Woody - little too involved...should be up there in the stands supporting his team really
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I'm Irish and I have not problem with Brian Moore's comments. Give me Moore and Eddie Butler doing commentry any day of the week over Jim Neilly and Tyrone Howe. Eddie Butler has a superb voice for commentating.
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To appreciate real bias one should read the great master himself: Keith Wood!
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I live in Scotland and am forced to watch ´óÏó´«Ã½ Scotland and their cast of Scottish commentators during the rugby and their all Scottish sumarises after the match. I was in Northern Ireland a fortnight ago and watched their all Irish commentary pair and match summarises. Why do the English viewers get stuck with the mix of Scots, Welsh and Irish summarises and commentators? Can't we have a completely biased English team ignoring the facts and just talking up England? The English viewers have the most unbiased commentators/summarisers possible as only a small percentage of them are English.
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SO instead of actually being able to listen to Moore, who actually is a half decent commentator, we will hae to endure the awful local Northern Ireland coverage. Surely the main ´óÏó´«Ã½ coverage with Keith Wood onboard would have been far better, especially considering the standard of pundits invloved and the contrast of having "good and expierienced" players from both sides on the panel.
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to conor at 31.
what about jeremy guscot and john inverdale? possibly the two most biased presenters on the ´óÏó´«Ã½!
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So whats the problem Jim? Truth too much for you?
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Brian Moore got it right, Ireland blew that game big time, the winning try was very very average [well ok pathetic] defence from Ireland but choking? Ireland totally outplayed in the first half showed great spirit in the second but could not go on with it, point made by blog 17 southern hemisphere sides go for the throat when in front and stay focused for full 80 minutes, very dissapointed with Irelands fadeout as had them pencilled in for the world cup final against the kiwi's. After 2 rounds of 6 nations still haven't seen anything that will have them shaking in their boots Oz, SA, and Eng [with out jonny forget it] so it's up to France and Ireland to give us a great world cup final or I'm afraid it might be a one sided game, very rarely to a strong All black side get beaten once they have their noses in front, and they're keeping their stars in cotton wool until the end of the super 12 season, burnout you wish only England of 2003 would have come close to this powerful side, all we can pray for is injuries to deaden the pain.....
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Brian Moore as usual is honest in saying that ireland choked...maybe they can take some hope in knowing that England's choked a lot of times in the build up to being the world's best in getting a Grand Slam. hoping that we don't choke tomorrow.
And would be nice if the bbc found someone who wasn't as biased as their main commentator, given that Eddie Butler is much worse than Moore and not very good at what he claims to be able to do.
Given that someone pointed out above that Jim Neilly will be commentating on anything I wouldn't be looking forward to watching it at home either....
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I'm Scottish and used to bristle every time I heard Brian Moore having a pop at Scotland. However, over time I've developed a lot of respect for him. He is never anything but completely honest and that's why he gets some people's backs up. I certainly don't think that he's biased. If anything, he's even harder on England than the other teams. BTW - good luck Ireland !
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Once again the media have decided to blow everything out of proportion. You would think that this match would be newsworthy enough in itself.
Neither I, nor any other Irishman I have spoken to about this can find any offence in Moore's comments. He is only saying what we were all saying after the French match. As regards bias I have watched many a game with him commentating and have never found this to be the case.
If Eddie O'Sullivan is using this tape for motivation I'm sure it's because he's also aware that Moore is right in what he was saying.
Prediction for Saturday 21 : 13 Ireland
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As an Irishman, I see nothing biased in Moore's comments. I think the problem for most Irish people was that he seemed so completely unsympathetic, at a time when we were all completely gutted and shattered with disappointment. In such an occasion, the bitter truth can be hard to swallow and you may not want to hear it, particularly from an Englishman!
One other point; Anthony in post 2 - the Irish team and management were very careful NOT to build themselves up as favourites before the Six Nations, so don't try and say they did. And EVERYONE in the championship tagged them as favourites, not just the Irish media and public - you know that! As for them being a limited team, even Brian Moore clearly disagrees with you, as would every other rugby pundit on the planet.. That's just a ridiculous comment! Ireland's problem at the moment is that some of their key players (O'Connell, O'Callaghan, O'Gara) have suffered a dip in form. Don't be too quick to forget Irelands potential though, as shown in the summer + autumn. Ashton and his players certainly won't. If the Irish play well, England will get a similar lesson to Australia + South Africa tomorrow...
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Brian Moore - alongside Eddie Butler - is the only reason I don't turn the volume down. I'd go along with the rest of the people here who have commented that he is the least bias of all the ´óÏó´«Ã½ pundits/co-commentators.
And, yes, Ireland did choke, again.
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How can anybody object to Brian Moores blunt but accurate analysis of the Irish performance against France? I've been saying for the last 4 years that Ireland have the ability and infrastructure to win the world cup one day soon. What happened against France should not have occurred. They had the game won.
England have been abysmal since the world cup until recently. If Wilkinson plays he will punish every penalty from all over the park. Write them off at your peril. May the best team win and please shove all this misty eyed plastic paddy nonsense where it belongs.
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Jim Stokes is constantly trying to use a non story to get some tabloid sensation going. Why has he been hired by the ´óÏó´«Ã½? Moore's comments are spot on. Ireland have a few great players but we are nowhere near the ABs. To produce a GS we have to play at our best during every single second of every single game. We have not done that and it remains to be seen if we can.
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As an Irishman I don't think Brian Moores comments are bias. He is telling it the way it is. I'm sick of Ireland doing great stuff when it doesn't matter. We have to learn how to win when it counts. Do we have the ability to do so? Yes without a doubt, but Brian Moore is right. It is not an Irish - English thing its reality. We have the skill so lets do it and shut-up whinning. Good luck to all the home teams this weekend.
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Is Jim Stokes Gerald Davies' twin?
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Echo the comments above that Moore speaks frankly and is often correct. It is insightful to have a commentator who actually understands front row penalties as well.
The problem that I (Scot in England) have with the ´óÏó´«Ã½ is not the presence of home nations pundits (Guscott, Davies, Nicol, Wood) bias. It is the nature of anchorman Inverdale.....
I think he has the natural heir of someone who is a bit aloof/camp/arrogant and he cannot, absolutely cannot allow the focus to slip off England and Jonny W. The ´óÏó´«Ã½'s coverage was best when McLaren was the main commentator because he had an incredible ability to objectively commentate and not be biased. Many times he was present at games where scottish hopes were dashed/thrashed and he still remained buoyant and professional. You can practically hear Davies crying when Wales go wrong....
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His comments would be taken more seriously if he also applied the same cutting analysis to the England team -How can we honestly expect to beat the Irish this weekend? We have not progressed one little bit in the last 3 years
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I don't think the issue is really whether Moore is biased, but rather will the comments motivate or be a stark reminder to the Irish team in the event the game is close. Motivation before the game is one thing (I doubt either team will have a problem with that), but feelings of déjà vu in the closing minutes is quite another.
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Brian is right. No question. He is one of the most honest commentators in the business- yet people are stupidly moaning that he is biased! Errrm, what about Andy Nicol, Keith Wood, and Jonathan Davies? He is no more biased than the rest of them. Moore has passion, and there certainly is nothing wrong with that.
It is Ireland who should sort their attitude out- even if they beat an unsettled England side tomorow. Ireland fans are constantly talking about past triple crowns and talking up their team- the reality is that nobody else cares - when are they going to actually win the 6Nations Championship ,challenge for a WC or just beat a Tri Nations team away from home for that matter? They had a chance a blew it. Moore was spot on.
I wanted them to do well but the Slam is gone. The 'we gave it our best shot, never mind lets have a guiness and move on attitude' is never going to get an International team winning big trophies- look at Australia in all sports. Defeat is unacceptable to them at whatever level- Ireland should learn from them.
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Brian Moore is very fair. Commentating on England v Italy he said he couldn't stand Austin Healy. Austin Healy was equally fair and replied that he couldn't stick Brian Moore. No one could say fairer than either of them. As I leave the office tonight, I realise all my colleagues are supporting Ireland. Well, they've wished me an enjoyable weekend anyway.
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It's quite refreshing to hear a more balanced opinion on the Irish performance. I've watchd the last two 6 nations on Setanta TV in the USA which usually has Irish Commentary and analysis. Their pro Ireland and anti England bias is almost embarrasing
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Brian Moore is correct. In todays professional game concentration is required for the entire game, something Eddie O'Sullivan hopefully has reminded the team in training.
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He's called it exactly as it is and this is exactly what was said when England were constantly blowing Slams year after year. ON paper Ireland were the form team and mroe importantly in reality they were on the basis of the AI's.
Why Eddie O'S wants copies of the video brought down for the players on this i don't know - thy know they blew it and the Slam with it. The only value can be that it's the old English egg head. That's waht the Scots use to do with Moore and though they turned him over in 1990 it never happened again....
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Message 33 Neil Hunter
The prefixing or suffixing the words England and English with arrogant by you and your chippy ilk is extrmely tedious. It's also the worst kind of lazy thinking.
So having hopes of winning a grand slam is arrogant. hmmm, how ridiculous.
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Its called the truth - heard of it?
It doesn't have to sound nice but its better than the trite served up by lesser commentators.
Well said Brian
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If you want real bias just listen to the Ozzy commentary whenever they play anybody at anything. They make Brian Moore sound like the voice of pure reason.
I don't think he is bias with his content - although I do feel he 'shouts' for England whenever he gets the chance. His opinions are quite fair - I just think he is a lousy commentator. Eddie Butler too. I could do a better job than them. I've got all my front teeth as well!!!
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The rugby being played the now is the six nations and they all have there own National Anthem. So why is it god save the queen is going to be tried and played instead of the English National Anthem" Land of Hope and Glory" are you wanting to cause trouble.
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The result of the obnoxious Moore's article will be to spur the Irish to a convincing victory against England.
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It's incredible that people come out with hugely emotive words like obnoxious based on listening to somebody commentating on a rugby match every now and again.
Brian Moore is in fact a very amiable person. he is certainly not obnoxious.
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To those of you who say that Moore's comments reflect the 'Arrogant England attitude' (i.e. Irishman in England) I would argue that you are hiding behind the age old stereotype to try and cover your team's shortcomings. Yes, if England produced such a performance then Moore would have applauded them, not because he is biased, but because this England team is not one at the peak of its powers. The team is being rebuilt (as we all know) and is not currently capable of producing any great quality of rugby. Moore is aware of this, and no doubt when they choke in a few years' time he'll come down just as harshly on them.
Ireland on the other hand are a team who have had long enough together to be consistently winning games like the France one. Just because Brian Moore was vocal about it doesn't mean he can be accused by all and sundry of being arrogant. What's more worrying is that very few Irish commentators have said anything, that's the bias you should be worrying about..
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I just watched the clip of Brian Moore's comments. I am Irish and personally I think he is perfectly right. I watched the France game and I knew straight after that we had blown. Previously I might have said that it was a brave performance by an Irish team that was just not as good as France. Things have changed and there is no reason why we shouldnt have beaten France. It was actually harder to lose in the position we were in. Sometimes the truth is harsh. There is no point in nearly doing something. After all, most of us Irish, Welsh and Scottish got a lot of satisfaction in the English bottling those three grand slams on the final day. Lets face it, Ireland did choke. However, as mentioned early those England teams that choked on the final day ended up winning a Grand Slam in Dublin and a World Cup in Australia. Ireland might come back stronger but only if we recognise that we did blow it. All this talk about using the video as inspiration is rubbish unless EOS says that he is right and that is how the rest of the Northern Hemisphere views it.
Ireland to win tomorrow.
......Croke Park is a fantastic stadium. I had my reservations about opening up the stadium but tomorrow we will see why Croke Park is one of the best stadiums in Europe and why Gaelic and hurling are Irelands national sports.
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´óÏó´«Ã½ commentators should only present games where nationality issues do not arise. Moore has always been biased, especially against the Celts.
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I don't think the Irish management will be using Brian Moores' interview as stimulus, they will have been hammering the squad because they know they threw the game away themselves, it was the views of a non-Irishman that possibly got most people emotionally involved in the debate.
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Jim,
If Ireland need to be motivated by a Brian Moore comment, then they have it wrong. And if they need that motivation, they will lose. What was it? Austin Healey called Justin Harrison a plank and the 'press' (you lot) said that that was all Eddie Jones needed to pump his Bruces up. How insulting to Eddie and all top coaches. You journalists; great words, no clue (good money. Well done). How's the train spotting coming on?
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I am irish, listening to Brian Moore commentate on the Six Nations has gotta be the best entertainment I have ever heard.
Brian Moore has had a great rugby career, a great player I have no doubt.
However, his bias towards England, whoever they play, can be outrageous at times. Now, in any field of journalism, other than sport, this would not be allowed. But Mr Moore shows a passion that describes the 'british bulldog' very well. I admire him for showing a bit of national backbone not visible in other aspects of UK society.
I really enjoy listening to his comments when England get beaten, its makes for great entertainment. So when Ireland beat England (note use of word 'when')I look forward to what he has to say because I love a good laugh!
As for Austin Healy, now thats another story!
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Sounds to me as though Jim Stokes is looking to pump himself up never mind the Irish team. Brian Moore has called it as he saw it and if you read his comments there is no emotion, just a professional's view as he saw it. As so many of your correspondents have already said, Moore got it right. If this is what Ireland need to get themselves going ag'in the old enemy then Lord help them with or without O'Drisscoll. That said, let's hope for a good match tomorrow that's worthy of the 6 Nations championship.
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Jim:
Horrible attempt to force a tedious 'arrogant English' theme out of the scraps of Moore's comments - totally missing the point that he was repecting Ireland's team as genuine title contenders and not using 'plucky Celt' patronising rubbish that would warrant a genuine accusation of arrogance. Further horror in your attempts to contrive an image of an inherent English superiority complex: 'And if there's one thing that really fuses the Irish together, then it's when an Englishman says that they're not really up to it' only to undermine your own argument with your arrogant final comment that English fans are paying through the nose only 'to watch Ireland defeat England for the fourth successive occasion'. Oh dear (and this is not to mention the tired 'Celtic fraternity' crap in the article too). As for Moore's comments, most people (both the Irish and English supporters) on this blog seem to agree with him and I do too, Ireland have a great team and have missed (albeit unfortunately) an opportunity to win the Grand Slam they clearly wanted so desperately. Incidentally, what do you make of Moore's comment that: 'What I found with all the allegations of bias is that generally it reflects the prejudices of people who make the complaints'?
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The media will not be happy until they manage to turn the very special rugby atmosphere at 6N matches into something more akin to the tribalism and hatred shown on the football terraces. What did BM say that was so controversial! Apart from the media dramatic "choked" comment most people of all nationalities agree with what he said. Ireland did not choke. Like thousands of teams before them they thought they had won the game. They lost concentration and paid for it! Lets face it apart from Lord Haw Haw everybody has a bias toward their own country. With commentators it is no different. Suggest you listen to the Kiwis when the All Blacks are playing! The commentators here are almost racist particularly against Aussie and the English. The population here love it! It is expected and of course great humour and fun - unless of course those arrogant Aussies and English say it against their boys! I would finish where I started. Rugby supporters seem to have a respect for the traditions of the game which rise above the emotions of wins and losses. In todays world that is special - dont let the media change it!
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I have to say as a half English, half Irish man living in Ireland, I find the whole Moore thing hysterical. Brian Moore is the best commentator on rugby around - he really knows his stuff, he calls a spade a spade and unlike many namby pamby commentaotrs, realises that rugby is a battle of collisons.
Yes, he is harsh on England, perhaps unduly so given recent changes - he certainly ate into Robinson (the Celt choice of England coach).
If you want truly uninformed and hopelessly biased commentary, look no further than George Hook on RTE. However, it is, as always, perfectly acceptable for a Celt to be hopelessly biased, bt not ok for even the faintest of bais from an English commentator. When will us Celts ever get over our inferiority complex?????
In asides, Guscott is awful (head the size of a globe, analysis of a muppet), Woody and Healy are good craic, Davies is not just irritating on the ear but worse to listen to and Inverdale..... did that guy ever play rugby and doesn't Wilko worry that one day Inverdale might just get him in a dark alley - clearly pathologically obsessed. So, if I may give you a tip, record the game and start watching it 20 minutes after kick off. That way, you can listen to Moore and the somewhat less able but better than the rest Butler and fast forward the garbage that falls from the mouths of teh self promoting half time chatter heads unless Lynagh is on, he being a voice of intelligence whose analysis is usually very good.
Keep up the good work Mr. Moore, it is much appreciated!
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An Englishman with bias??? Surely not I hear everyone cry! Yet every week we listen to all the home nations go on about their own with such over inflated pride its ludicrous!
There was talk from Irish players before the Heineken cup that the English are arrogant because we think its our right to win rugby games. That "right to win" mentality earnt us a World Cup, if Ireland want one of their own, I suggest they do the same!
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I agree with the sentiments of some people on this blog who say that the Irish should not need to have Brian Moores interview as motivation. They blew it and they should know that which would provide all the impetus that is needed.
However to say that the irish don't care and just have a pint of guiness and be jolly (not by brian moore but by some of the posters) is just as bad as the Irish claiming all english people are arrogant (because we dare to think we might win) idiots with no sence of history.
Heres to a good game with hopefully an English victory although I feel that we really can't win because i promise you come 6 0'clock tomorrow if Ireland win they will have put the 'arrogant' english in their place and put to bed the ghosts of past indescretions. If England win 606 will be full of people attacking our boring style of play, one man team and how the ´óÏó´«Ã½ is full of nasty people who say nasty things about the celts.
A well c'est la vie, bring it on, Come on England!!!
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What a mountain out of a molehill! His comments were about as inflammatory as a eunuchs tackle. I think Mr Stokes needs to read some of these posted comments and see how badly wrong he's got it.
As for allegations of bias, I think 'the celts' need to take a look in their own backyard at the likes of Butler and Edwards. Moore is passionate and uncompromising, the first to critise a poor england performance, and the only pundit with a clue about the realities of forward play (Mr Wood excluded). Vive la front row union.
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I have always found Moore opinionated, but not that biased. Those that say he is biased just don't like his opinions! It is a simple as that.
He was the first to say JW's try was not a try! Just think he gives his opinion and gives it in as unbiased way as an ex international can do, which is what he is payed for. I think Eddie Butler et al are worse. Have seen them try to proclaim obvious decisions weren't in favour of their bias.
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Think Brian Moore is right Ireland should have beaten the French but England were even worse against Italy. The ball comes back so slowly I fear Ireland should thrash them today. This is still not a very good English side.
If England lose by less than 15 points today I'll count that as a win.
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Wow! What a storm in a teacup. And all this moronic talk of 'xenophobia' and 'English arrogance'. Good lord, is this what rugby support has been reduced to? Grow up people!
I think BM's comments were a fairly reasonable assessment and I think most of the Irish players would agree. Ireland really need to adopt a killer instinct and a winning attitude if they wish to achieve greatness! They haven't been able to play with high intensity and aggression for a full 80 minutes. When they learn how to do that, they could easily win the WC. But as it stands, they look slightly above average. No more slow starts, please.
I still think we're going to give England a good thumping today though. Hehe.
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Interesting how an Englishman's "bias" can only be countered by your lazy journalism in espousing the hoary old culture chestnut of the linked "patriotism" shown by the "Gaelic" and "Celtic" nations against the English.
Brian Moore's argument i.e. Ireland's inability to yet again close a game out that they had all but won,seems to have been conveniently missed.
I'm not a fan of the word "choke" to describe this experience, but should the same happen on Saturday,as this venue has very little rugby history I'm sure changing the first R in the venues name to an H should incur little expense/wrath etc....
This "patriotism" simply endorses one belief that these nations,would prefer to win the battle(beat England)rather than win the war(the Grand Slam.)
And like with Moore's article if you fail to see the point I'm making, I wonder how many pre-game Irish media articles will be based on the theme of
"Ireland now have the opportunity to resurrect their season by beating England"
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As a Irish man living in teh UK i agree with Brian's comments. We should have beaten the French as this team is hailed as the best Irish team for quite a wee while.
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I'm English, kind of proud of it, sometimes, and wouldn't call myself arrogant. The only sports I like are cricket and rugby and so very rarely have to deal with the myopic and xenophobic hatred of the footballing world. Yet it's creeping into rugby a little, isn't it? Let's face it, most of the home nations belong to the ABE club (anyone but England) and, to be honest, that gets a bit tiring after a bit.
I'm living in Wales at the moment and, as you'd expect, wear my red rose with as much pride as I can muster - which isn't much, but loyalty must keep its nerve - given England's mauling over the last three years. Yet the strength and depth of anti-English sentiment (which I believe gives rise to the nonsense in the article above)is not pleasant. It's quietly hostile: there's no joshing and leg-pulling, merely a mildly threatening silence as this lone white shirt aims for the bar at half-time.
For God's sake people (and thank you to all who've scorned Stokes' stoking) this is a game. Nothing more. If you've axes to wield, take them to Downing Street, or the Oireachtas, where the real damage is done.
England to win.
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How ironic that after Moore had finished his defense of his views we were treated to an ashtonishing display by the studio presenter and pundit. It does us no favours to carry these chips on our shoulders. Moore was dead right. We were favourites to lift the title, had all the hard games at home and just didn't turn up against the French. Has the Irish rugby establishent become so up itself that we can't take a bit of straight talking? If we need a tape of this to motivate the team before the game against England then we are in trouble, surely the time would be better spent practicing taking re-starts?
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Moore's biased and mindboggling TV comments are laughable, especially when England are playing but, are also a joy to listen to, especially when Keith Wood is on hand to provide his incredulous pregnant-paused and tight-lipped reaction to them.
However, Moore cannot be in a minority of one in reckognising this flawed aspect of Ireland's play.
Let's hope this is a wake-up call from Moore for the Irish, both team and management.
It's too late for The Slam, but it might, at least, stop the Irish from handing the game on a plate to England, as they did to France,this year and last year.
If Eddy O'Sullivan can convince each Ireland player to visualise his English opposite number as a reincarnation of Brian Moore, Ireland should win by a cricket score.
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Message 72, John;
Who are the Celts that Moore is supposedly biased against.
Don't think there are any playing in the 6N so it's not relevant anyway.
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Ireland may have 'blown another Grand Slam', but take heart. How many times were England expected to walk it and then blow it ? They went on to win The Rugby World Cup.
Brian Moore always had a talent for upsetting people, particularly the Scots. It's part of being a front row forward. He is biased from time to time but that doesn't make him wrong. I just laugh at how he mellowed overnight when there was a chance of a ´óÏó´«Ã½ contract.
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The truth hurts as does freedom of speech! Moore was spot on (though it galls me to say it). There's still a gallant loser mentality in Ireland that needs to be adressed. If airing Moore's comments at team HQ helps the four provinces put one over the English, all the better.
It was our tactical ineptiude that lost the game against France. Stupid illconsidered decisions made by well-paid professionals. EOS whingeing about the 'bounce of the ball' is ludicrous from someone of his intelligence.
Hopefully Brian O'D will bring the required on-field leadership that Ireland missed in Dublin.
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Im an Irish man and I would agree with what he said. The days of moral victories are longover for Irish Rugby, winning is what they're paid to do. Not just play, win.
However I wouldnt say Ireland choked. Choking in sports terms means to let the occasion get to you, and cause you to make uncharictaristic mistakes(eg. Peyton Manning in the Post-Season for the Colts, even this year, except Sup.Bowl).
Yes they had a chance to win a game that they didnt deserve to win, but it wasnt the occasion. France are a really good team and had the potential to score tries every time they got the ball. Ireland certainly didnt.
Off topic but in case some people think the GAA are some kind of nationalist front.
I just want to point out that I am a GAA man all my life and will continue to be.
I do not agree with the Rules that were in place that excluded people, I am in support of Croke Park being open.
I have friends from NI who are Unionist.
I dont mind GSTQ being played.
I like GAA for the sport, the entertainment and the togetherness it has brought to my community. There are many more who feel the same as me, and with time like-minded people are making their way to the head of the GAA and slowly but surely make it a more open orginisation to everyone.
Sorry, but I just felt that some people might have got the wrong impression.
PS Ireland to win today.
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When he played for England I didn't like Brian Moore at all ( he was a great player and I support Scotland ) However since he became a commentator, he must now rate as one of the best. Anyone would think he was anti-English the way he rips into the English players. I'm a Scot from Irish heritage and Brian Moore has managed to vocalise everything that has been really annoying me about Ireland these past few seasons. As a passing thought I loved Bill Beaumont until I heard him commentate... now there's bias !
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I think two points should be made.
(a) In regard to Brian Moore as a commentator. I am increasingly sick of listenening to the bland comments of the rugby pundits. Most of them have nothing to say. Guscott is blandness personified and Wood's analysis carries the same punch as the Archbishop of Canterbury's criticism of Islam. I think Moore should receive their fees. He and Jonathan Davies are the only ones who earn their money.
(b) This is the best Irish team I have seen in the forty plus years I have been following rugby. And what has it achieved? O'Sullivan learns nothing from failure. He does not address the weaknesses. Scrum half has been a weakness that has been clear to everyone outside Ireland; Boss plays well, who gets picked? Neil Best was a revelation in the hard matches against southern hemisphere teams. Who gets dropped after having been named man-of-the-match in his previous outing? Why was D'Arcy played at outside centre when he has all the skills to cope with a rushed defence? Yet inside Ireland there have been few calls for O'Sullivan's resignation. Do people here really think that he is doing a good job? We need more people like Moore to have the courage to say that the emperor is naked!
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Brian Moore is passionate about rugby - I sense he really wanted Ireland to win the grand slam as it was such a long time coming and is just as disappointed as everyone else is in Ireland. He is frustrated because it was so well within our grasp and we just blew it once again...Brian knows we are capable of taking it to another level.
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i find this whole episode epitomises the celtic 'in-built' stereotyping of england, its rugby team, and the english people as arrogant, and unfortunately its all those who criticise brian moore's comments can hide behind when they know they should be on course for a grand slam. i'm english and when ireland were playing france i couldn't scream louder for ireland to win. unfortunately, france nicked it when really they shouldn't have, and what is the result in the media? 'let's have another go at the english'. listen, ireland are a great team. they should have won. they didn't. however, listen to moore talking about players such as o'driscoll and darcy et al. if you think he's got nothing good to say about ireland, think again. he recognises they are a far superior team to england at the moment, and truth be told, ireland should beat england comfortably today. anyway, i think arrogance and self-belief are getting misconfused here. in my book, arrogance is someone who says they will do something when they know they can't. self-belief is someone who knows they SHOULD be able to do something as they know they can. i wish those who hold these 'anti-english' feelings would just realise they have an inferiority complex when there's NO REASON to have one.
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Brian Moore tells it as it is. He has been there and done it at the highest level and his honesty should be applauded as much as his insight into the game of rugby, which is immense. Ireland could do worse than bring Moore into their dressing room before the game to say it to their faces. It's all about winning...and Ireland are very close to becoming a real powerhouse in international rugby but they need to be more clinical (and cynical) to get to the top spot.
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I find Brian Moore very fair. I am Irish and want to know why our players cannot do the simple things correctly e.g. catch the ball, give and take a pass, find touch as Hickey consistently failed to do. Forget the bite and bollocks and learn to do the basics.
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Although BM is right that this Irish team has not actually achieved anything, I don't think they choked, if by this he means that they didn't have the nerve to finish out when they got in front. The reality is France played a great game and were a much better team, its the French who almost choked, because they should have had this game in the bag long before the finish.
Ireland do have a great first choce team, but don't have the cover. Take away the all arounf ability of BOD, lose a great wing like SH (because he's not an international centre), and break up the PS / ROG partnership, you have a totally different team, and a pretty average international backline. Expect a different story today, Ireland by 10!!! Cant Wait.
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Ho hum, reading this thread makes me think there’s a section of society that just needs someone to hate. Rugby, football, elephant polo, local history, skin colour, religion etc… Just excuses to hate someone…
Just a thought.
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Can we be reach agreement on some things:
The majority of Ireland fans have no problem with Brian Moore's opinion on the outcome of the Irelavd v France match.
The majority of England fans accept that Brian Moore as an ex-England player will be as equally generous to England players in victory as he is critical towards them in defeat.
Everyone agrees that Jim Stokes is a desperate stirrer.
And Austin Healey has a face that screams out 'SLAP ME! - plus an attitude to match.
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First off Jim, you got a lot of abuse for saying ridicolous things about Croke Park and came off completely biased/ Now your attemtping to fix that with a full blown Irish to win article.
Brian Moore was right and any Irish man(woman) would agree with it.
But! It's when he's commentating is the problem!
For example when Lamont fumbled for Scotland and robinson touched it down, he said excitedly as if Robinson had just beaten 8 players "Oh and this is England back to there World Cup Form!!!!" give me a break.
´óÏó´«Ã½, the first B stands for British not English right?
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What bugs me most abuot this article is the idea that most Irish fans disagree with what Moore has to say and think he is PARTICULARLY biased. Of course he is slightly biased towards England but I am probably more biased towards Ireland, also I don't ever get the impression he is anti-irish, if anything, his expectations make him pro Irish.
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I think Mr Stokes point may have been missed slightly. He does not seem to be Vriticising Briam Moore's comments. He is simply saying thatt he Irish team will listen to those comment and, as they come from a former English International, will use them to get the fire in their bellies going. I think it is well acknowledged that Ireland have a back line that is the envy of most other teams (AB's perhap excluded). It is the Paul O'Connels, the Donnacha O'Callaghans of the team that have not performed to the level that is now expected by a hyped fan base. Like ROG says - a lot of a number 10's game depends on what is happening around them. If Ireland win or draw up front they should be able to wrap the game up.
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Brian Moore is the same today as he was at 15, playing open age rugby and getting up everyones noses! But he was even then knicking ball against the head!
Today he's opinionated and forthright, but 99% correct and 100% interesting. Jonathan Davies comes close, but enjoys the English losing just a little too much. The rest of the panel need to buck up or go to Sky, the land of banality.
Just a thought, might the Irish team not also agree with Brians comments, and being reminded of what they blew be a positive focus for today.
Shame on you Jim Stokes for an appalling piece of work, lets hear something from you.
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As a Scot I have to say that as much as I am not a fan of Moore what he has said is not offensive - in fact it is a refreshing change to here an Englishman talk of a celtic nation as if they should be winning these games, rather than the usual patronising comments like "a plucky performance" or "Give credit to the Irish they never stopped trying". As for the comments about Jonathon Davies I have to point out he was the first to say Scotland were deserved winners at murrayfield a fortnight ago. Yes he is clearly a Welsh supporter but he is no more/less biased in his views than Guscott, Nicol or Wood.
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I just cannot understand what all the fuss is all about with Brian Moore. As Martin Johnson has stated in the past, within rugby, if ever an Englishman voices is opinion then everyone jumps on the bandwagon and cries wolf. If a Scot, the Welsh, the French or the Irish voice their opinion then it is fine and dandy. You have to respect everyone's opinions. Is it some form of inferiority complex they all have against the English??
With Brian Moore what you see is what you get and if people cannot agree then that is too bad. He is from Yorkshire and they are honest and forthright folk in their opinions....in this day and age that is refreshing to see. I used to live in Lancashire and have some idea...I have now moved to Toulouse and unfortunately we don't have any Brian Moore's commentating down here...just the odd ooh la la from a Frenchman!!!!
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Ireland choked against France (simple as that) and will most likely do the same today against england. I'm an Irish fan but in sport 2nd best is no good. Ireland unfortunately have a knack of coming out 2nd best.
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Would someone be so kind to advise me the best way of getting to Murrayfield by car. Are there sufficient parking spaces at the stadium or should I park somewhere else, and if so, where? Also, how early before a sell-out game should I enter the stadium? Any other helpful advice on attending a match at Murrayfield would be greatly appreciated.
MANY THANKS! Jonny
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I agree with Rodney (107) let's hear Jim's defence of what has been pretty much shown on this blog to be a shameless piece of reactionary journalism attempting to polarise interpretations of Moore's comments along nationalistic lines. Jim's beef with Moore seems to be that he is English and therefore has no right to criticise the Irish team - if an Irish man had said the same comments (and a few have on this blog) there would be no story. The real nationalism and arrogance came from the embarrassing Irish television pudits' reactions to Moore's piece who tried hard to conflate the English/arrogance link without actually responding to any of Moore's comments. Real fingers in ears/ head in the sand stuff. I used to live in Scotland where we were treated to similar (almost always from an all Scottish panel) interpretations of English performances and opinions and invariably the same uncomfortable attempt to prove a predetermined English=arrogant link would always come across, evidently for the consumption of a supposedly like-minded all Scottish audience. Watching the matches in London (where I live now) the panel usually consists of a representative from each of the nations playing and the ensuing squabbles provide great entertainment, but is nevertheless qualitatively different from the myopic view of the Irish studio (at the very least it is a set of conflictual partisan views). I find most of the comments on this blog pretty encouraging as most people have highlighted the ethnocentric logic underpinning Jim's criticisms of Moore and expressed their distaste of it. Nevertheless, Jim should come forward and at least try to defend his original comments about Moore to a generally sceptical public.
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Who is that Welsh comentator in the ´óÏó´«Ã½ TV show. He's in his element, England are poor - one man off the field, England are struggling - one man off the field. Is it any wonder that this biased comentator was dumped on the last match.
This can't go on. When we watch Scotland - no English comentators. When Ireland play France - no English comentators. When Enland play Wales - send the Welshman to commentate on the local Welsh Womens Institute meeting!
Ireland are good - but this Welsh bloke's time as an impartial comentator in limited!
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Well done Ireland from a humbled Englishman. Not only did you thrash us with an outstanding performance, but the crowd were also a total credit to your Nation.
I expected boo's during the England teams entrance and certainly the national anthem. I was moved to hear ovations instead. You have done yourselves proud!
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Where is Brian Moore choking and can i go and watch ..what a battering..Ireland you beauty
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Well done Ireland for an outstanding performance and well done Irish fans for the sporting reception. Brilliant; that was what rugby is all about. This Englishman had tears in his eyes at the start of that game.
As for the England team; useless. You should be ashamed of yourselves and you don´t deserve your inflated salaries. Get out of the gym and learn to run and pass a rugby ball.
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Brian Moore should not be a ´óÏó´«Ã½ commentator, full stop. On an occasion that was legendary with a win that was historic, deserved, and hugely entertaining, the whole experience was marred by Mr. Moore's sometimes comical, but mostly annoyingly biased commentary! As 236 (farquhar) pointed out, he's more interested in finding loopholes to make excuses for the English rather than appreciating the quality of the Irish rugby and praising them for it.
By no means is Mr. Moore the only commentator guilty of bias; Italy is time and again talked down by the commentators, even comments such as "He should have made that tackle" rather than saying "What a good break" can make all the difference between enjoyment and a feeling of a lessened experience.
I watch rugby to appreciate the high quality of the play and acknowledge both sides' inspirational commitment and skill, which I hope is the case for most other fans. I think the commentators have a duty to the watchers to stop being so disgustingly one-sided and to be more open minded to the international impact their commentary has. I can guarantee that Brian Moore would not have lasted the pace as a goodwill ambassador for the Eng v Ire match.
As a last note I want to mention that as an English fan I'm happy as hell for Ireland's win. Gutted we lost, but in the end we didn't deserve to win. To any Irish fans, congratulations, sorry for Brian Moore if you were watching on the Beeb, and drink one for me while you're celebrating! Cheers!
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Well done Ireland; a fantastic match. Pity England are just so flat at the moment.
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Really we should ignore this buffoon Moore. I am Irish and live in Scotland and I have yet to meet anyone who believes that he reflects and expresses the beauty of sport in his comments. I doubt if any of the top (rugby) players take him seriously
My main sport is cycling and we have to endure the rantings of another couple of clowns - Jeremy Clarkson and Nigel Havers who have probably never competed at any decent level in sport.
So there we have them - the Three Stooges: Moore;Clarkson and Havers. It is irrelevant that they are English they are just plain dumb overgrown schoolboys in long trousers.
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A pity us Irish fans couldn't even listen to Brian Moore. What an awful decission by ´óÏó´«Ã½ NI.
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I think Brian Moore does a good job. As an Irish fan who has had trouble staying fair myself in the past, I appreciate his evident struggle to be impartial. Of course he is naturally biased towards England - he's English and a former player. But I have watched and listened to him struggle to overcome his natural bias and become a vivid, entertaining and informative ( especially regarding the front row) commentator. He and Eddie Butler are an excellent team.
But I totally agree that the Italians are continually patronised in ´óÏó´«Ã½ coverage. Is there no Italian with enough rugby knowledge and sufficient understanding of English to contribute to the ´óÏó´«Ã½?
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Given that England fans have to put up with Eddie Butler's biased crowing every time their team loses, I'm afraid I've not much sympathy with this posting. Brian Moore was a legend during his playing days, and is prepared to put his money where his mouth is in the com box. More power to him! He's also right: Ireland did choke against France - today, though, they showed us what they are capable of.
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It's poetic justice, when you try to claim that a player has injuerd himself when everybody knows he didn't (Wilkinson), and then your biased press claim that Ireland are bottlers, this is the result you get, it's karma and thats the way the universe works. It was one of the finest pieces of rugby I ever seen Ireland play. Never ever rule out the passion that exists in Ireland, we are a proud nation, and thats not because we are nationalistic (a word invented by the English to describe Northern Irish catholics BTW). The pride factor is a simple fact that deludes English journalists and media. Wilkinson was shown up as a one dimensional player (kicker) and fairly average player on the ball. Ronan may be inconsistent sometimes, but when he plays his best, he is the best in the world, no arguments (Heineken cup is proof). The hype that surrounded the English team after the scotland and wales games was shown to be just that. And I say...bring on France in the World cup, today we would have beaten any team in the world, make no mistakes, Ireland rugby is here to stay. PS. I never expected any trouble at this match, the media got it wrong once again...B
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I have to question the ´óÏó´«Ã½ practice of asking former internationals to commentate on their own nation. They are being asked to contribute from the heart and not from their expertise and experience. National passion clouds judgment. Wouldn't it be more enlightening if Brian Moore could commentate on France v Wales, Jonathan Davies on Ireland v England and Philip Matthews on Scotland v Italy?
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England - All I can say after that win is welcome back to pairc an crocaigh!
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Ah! Brian Moore....where's your 'whist' now me ould son?
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Just to add that viewing a f air fwe of the responses, virutally evry Irish person agreed with Brian Moore, yet disappointingly there were quite a number of completely generalising posts by some English people that the Irish were xenophobic, extremely biased etc. These statements made even while almost all the Irish responses were able to accept Moore's criticisms as honest. It is these few that are the tedious xenophobes, and certainly not Moore.
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I couldn't agree more with Brain Moore. Ireland have blown it again. It's all well and good beating a poor English side today but what do we get out of it? A triple crown. Probably the easiest triple crown in a long time. You would think Wales were bad losing to Scotland and then Scotland lose to Italy to compound the low value of a triple crown. This Irish team have a mental problem, Australia (WC 2003), England (2003 6N decider), France (2005 at home) and France this year(4 up with 2 to play, NOT GOOD ENOUGH!). All tight games whereself belief let Ireland down. We all know whats going to happen now. The Irish media will build the team up as the Northern Hemispheres strongest team going into the WC. Ireland will go their, lose to France, scrape past Argentina and lose to the All Blacks in their Cardiff quarter-final.
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Like many, his opinionated views used to get under my skin. But the reality is B Moore tells the truth 99% of the time. I LIKE HIM! It is refreshing to hear his views. As an Englishman I often think he is anti English he is so harsh and incisive. But then I look back and realise he is just trying to be honest. The Irish that thought he was biased are just in denial.
Volumes have been written on the Irish willingness to embrace the "loveable loser" tag. Although, this Irish team don't believe that, the public still have some sympathy with it, but not all.
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Hi Guys,
As an Irishman, I have to agree with Peter Branigan above when he says:
" .. WC. Ireland will go their, lose to France, scrape past Argentina and lose to the All Blacks in their Cardiff quarter-final."
Down through all the years Irish International Rugby and International Soccer has lacked CONSISTENCY and the KILLER INSTINCT. Put the opposition away, do not just settle for a close win, do not take the foot off the peddle just because you are ahead. I see no different here - All fired up for the English at Croker - well and good, but this Irish team could now very easily loose to the Italians in Rome, they have it in them to do so - that banana skin phenomonen.
I see the Versus England at Croker as a heart thing, and occasion, great result and all that, but I reckon we will not see consistency for the rest of the six nations from Ireland - as usual - or at the world cup. THIS is why Ireland will continue to be always the Bridesmaid possibly never the bride. No consistent killer instinct to not just win, but when one is winning to go on and annialate - as the past English team did to win the last world cup and the great SH teams do day in day out,
Great Day, Great win ... But,
Cheers
AidanO
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Ireland : Well done lads
England : Hard luck chaps
Brian Moore : HAVE IT
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Dear Brian Moore,I am writing to you as a last hope. I heard your comments on Saturday about the Irish "Anthems" choking you up. I too have been near to tears with the anthems of Ireland, Scotland and Wales, but unfortunately not for our own beloved England. I believe that a rousing anthem, such as the 3 above, which can reduce hardened rugby players to tears, is worth 3 points to any team. Not being a royalist myself, I cannot get aroused by an anthem dedicated to our majesty the Queen. I have no particular gripe with the royal family but would like to see, (or hear), Land of Hope and Glory or, Jerusalem, instated as our anthem or, as Ireland do, as an addition to our anthem. AM I THE ONLY ENGLISHMAN WHO FEELS THIS WAY???
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Did anyone here Brian Moore's comment during the Ireland v England game about Ireland's retaliation for a foul? There was no retaliation - this guy is seriously biased and seemed to be looking to stir trouble when there was none. Hats off to the other commentator who pinned him on it - no apology from Brian Moore of course. The ´óÏó´«Ã½ needs to seriously reconsider employing this man who obviously has a problem with Ireland.
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Good point, Mick Keavey. Irish myself but it must be a bit of a pain for your anthem to be about bowing down before your royal head, if you very understandably don't feel any ties or bond with them.
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Dear Brain Moore,
I want the younger generation to know how you played and what you stood for but the best price auto biography on Amazon is £17.49! Can you do us a deal?!
Warm regards,
Paul
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As a Welshman, I did not always appreciate Brain Moore the player, probably because of the damage he did to the Welsh team in those days, butt I must complimant him on being one of the best pundits and commentators of of football - both soccer and rugby. His plain and accurate speaking together with his correct use of the English language is a welcome change to the dreadful grammer most of the soccer pundits use.
However I write with two points to raise:
1. Why did the ´óÏó´«Ã½ spend so much time showing the WAGS at the Welsh - France game? As a rugby supporter, I do not think it is necessary and cerainly do not want to encourage this in the coverage of rugby. By all means show they crowd sometimes but try and get a general feel of the supporters. There are some true rubgy fans in the crowd so show them.
2. Italy did well to beat Scotland and as a result are not eligible to be claimed as winners of the mythical wooden spoon. This is applied to a team that loses all their matches. The fact that they are at the bottom of the table is irrelevant. I feel that commentators applying this title to them devalue the effort Italy made in winning.
The award is similar to the Triple Crown. This was not given to a team that had the most points but had actuually beaten all the other home nations. Please try and preserve these traditions.
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