Bad break for France
- 5 Mar 07, 10:15 AM
London - France have had to replace prop Sylvain Marconnet ahead of Sunday鈥檚 Six Nations game with England after .
Our sympathies go out to Marconnet, who will be out for up to four months after suffering what French team doctor Thierry Hermerel described as a 鈥渂ad break鈥.
But it has to be asked, 鈥榟e was doing what?鈥
I don鈥檛 want to accuse the French of being laissez faire, but surely all professional sportsmen have it written into their contracts that pastimes such as skiing are banned for exactly the reason Marconnet has so spectacularly illustrated?
Can you imagine England letting their 18 stone prop Phil Vickery strap a couple of planks of wood to his feet and hurl himself off a mountain in the middle of the Six Nations?
Vickery may also but at least he was hurt during a match.
And Scotland definitely wouldn't have approved - full-back Hugo Southwell got an earful from coach Frank Hadden last year after he risked life and limb with .
Hadden reminded Southwell that "his occupation comes first".
So what else do the French get up to?
Does Raphael Ibanez go Base jumping, is Sebastien Chabal a big fan of free climbing?
After hearing about Marconnet I wouldn鈥檛 be altogether surprised 鈥 would you?
Wales 27-18 England
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Well, I had been worried about going skiing this xmas, as I am due to start a round the world gap year the week or so afterwards... AND I had originally agreed to go, but now I'm getting cold feet!!!
Yes, it was irresponsible, but however it may well be that skiing is something so intrinsic to many french people that it is not written into the contracts. Either that, or he's due to pay a whacking great fine! What I propose is a whip-round the country and get everyone interested in paying maybe just 拢1. Then, we book a top of the range skiing resort for, say, around 15 people. And invite the french.
Maybe some more would helpfully drop out of the weekend game.
Come on england!
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Didn't one of the French props break his collar bone or similar in a mountain biking accident before the 2003 World Cup?! De Villiers maybe?
How unlucky is that for Marconnet, he must be gutted, but as shown in the article, questions sould be asked about why he was skiing in an off weekend during the Six Nations.
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Poor sod, however, now all we need is the full back-line, plus a couple of forwards to follow suit and England may stand a chance!!!!
The only crumb of comfort is that at least we a re guaranteed a win against the Welsh!!
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So lets wrap all professional sportsmen in cotton wool?
Don't be so daft, he's a big boy now,(probably always was, actually) who is capable of deciding what he should or should not do and accepts the potential consequences.
If he had been hit by a bus, would you say he shouldn't have been crossing the road?
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I think this a case of jumping the gun. The French like skiing, maybe this is something he has done all his life and is very capable of. Like crossing the road or driving a car, maybe it was just a freak accident. Did anyone ask what the hell Johnny was doing being in a car, known death traps, when he had that horrendous accident.
Maybe the real question should be why was Vickery playing a match the weekend before a 6 nations match, after all thats where most rugby players get injured. But we all know the answer to that.
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Steve (comment 2) you're absolutely right, although at least it was during a French training camp.
Why you'd think it is a good idea to go mountain biking in the Alps just before a World Cup I don't know - clearly they do things differently over La Manche.
De Villiers ended up missing the 2003 World Cup, but guess who has just been called back into the French squad in place of Marconnet?
Yes, De Villiers.
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Similar to Seb Loeb, but he was doing training at the time. He missed the last few Rallies of last season's championship but he still won because he was miles out in front!
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Alex,
Guaranteed a win against the Welsh ??? As much as I'd like to feel that confident I wouldn't guarantee anything with the current England team !
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Hmm judging by this weekend鈥檚 trauma it seems that playing rugby in considerably more dangerous than going skiing.
I decry the idea that professional sportsmen be limited to activities that will not impact their chosen sport. Whilst it may lead to better sporting achievement it鈥檚 all a bit Eastern European nay Soviet style for my liking. It鈥檚 especially funny when the 鈥淲elsh way鈥 of unwinding appears to involve getting munted and smoking fags.
What prop in his right mind goes skiing though? It鈥檚 like hearing that an elephant has dislocated it鈥檚 ankle while appearing on dancing on ice.
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Hmmmm.... I can't muster too much sympathy. Sadly perhaps Monsieur Marconnet regards next weekends fixture with the same phrase running through is head as the rest of the world. That phrase being 'forgone conclusion'. It's a bit alarming for the state of English rugby that we suffer the humiliation of a record defeat to the Irish and the French are so relaxed that they shrug their shoulders at the prospect of un petit jaunt to England and spend the weekend en piste. Clearly intimidated is not the word.
With France looming very large on the horizon for England and Wales with a less daunting trip to Italy in their immediate future I wonder whether an assured win in Cardiff is really written in the stars. The Welsh are more likely (although certainly not assured) to enter that match off a win whereas, in the absense of some miracle, England are likely to be coming off a heavy defeat. The England heads, I'm sure, will be down in 2 weeks time whilst the Welsh..... who knows?
I don't want to seem overly pessimistic but I have been less than inspired over the past few weeks by lack lustre performances and 1 reasonable turn out against a poor Scottish team. Of course I want England to win and I will be cheering them on with a lustre that implies that I believe. The problem is that I don't think the team share this belief. The talent is there but the cohesion and experience clearly isn't.
My mind seems to have wandered a little so I'll end with what I think all English people are thinking ahead of next weekend's game. Why weren't there more French players out on the piste?????
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John (comment 6),
Except that France aren't 'miles' in front, Mr. Loeb wasn't letting down a 22 man squad and was representing himself as opposed to his country. Besides we're talking about a real sport here.
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I wouldnt be surprised if sports shrinks were to tell us how important it is that professional sports people have alternative ways of venting their energies!
I suppose golf might be a more sensible option but lets face it golf is quite dull. I can't hide my contempt for successful sports people who it turns out have a golf handicap almost akin to a professionals!
Sports need personalities
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Marconnet will be out for 4 months which leaves him 2 months to get ready for the world cup, surely that is what is important. You have to question why he was being allowed to ski in a world cup year, less so why he was being allowed to ski during the 6 nations which comes around every year.
As for England being guaranteed a win over Wales. Given England are playing away, not a given at all.
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French flair does not come for free.
This is the price to pay to see a French team with creativity. The reaction of the journalist reflects the game of the English: sterile.
Rugby players should not do this, should not do that , it is a professional activity etc... So much stereotype! Rugby is first of all a game, should remain a game. and French players get this creativity on the field by doing a lot of different activites, even dangerous.
Come on France, come on an exciting display!
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Hmmm I don't think England will beat the Welsh.
All SN players should not be allowed to do any kind of high risk sport during a c'ship or run up to a WC. For example did you know that the Irish players who are likely to start for team in the SN or WC don't have to play any of the domestic league games throughout the SN as the Irish RFU have all the Irish players contracted to National team and then lease them out to the clubs. Well it's something to that effect but it means they have far less injury worries than England who have no control over players or clubs. Eng need to sort out the structure of the sport in order to compete with NZ,Fra,Ire,Aus. I mean the Irish have only been professionals for less than ten years and look at them now compared to the team they were before, when they lost to Scotland 12 yrs on the trott . Now they stand a chance of winning the WC (not really) but they at least stand a chance against the French or All Blacks. During the summer they lost to NZ twice but were in the lead for a good bit of one game and put in a few good tries. The RFU need to Govern the sport with a bit more muscle if Eng are to stand a chance for WC 2011.
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This is a very bad news for us, in France to lose Marconnet for the end of the 6 nations, and probably for the World Cup.
But, on order to answer the first question "Why was he skiing ?", I would add some comments.
first, in France, most of the rugby clubs are forbidding their players to ski on their contract.. Most of them, except "Le Stade Fran莽ais" (which should change in the next month), because they think that to perform, players have to feel right with their professional life, meaning that the club wants them to be allowed to do what they want, considering that they are supposed to be carefull...
Second, orginally, Marconnet went to the mountain this week end, not to ski, but only to be with his family (which was actually skiing...).
As his daughter succeed in getting his first level, she wanted him to ski with her... He did only once, and on a very easy track.. The point is that she started to fall on the teleski and he tried to protect her from it... occuring his injury...
It's very bad for him (and for us) but it could also happen @ home on stairs or anywhere else...
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I think you all just have to realise that things are different on the continent. I'm an England fan living in Switzerland and I can guarantee you that when you're blessed with the proximity of snow capped giants like the Alps, the desire to go skiing can be very attractive prospect (although snowfall recently has been abysmal). Many people in France and Switzerland that I know grew up going skiing regularly every weekend during the snowy season and therefore its just part of their culture. I understand that as a professional sportsman Marconnet should be careful, but I also think that if he was out there in the first place, its because he had a weekend off and was just out for some relaxation. No matter how good you are at something though or how easy you're taking it (I'm sure he wasn't whizzing down any black diamond slopes, although a little "hors piste" is always enticing), stupid accidents can and do happen. It could probably be likened to the hypothetical example of Wilko taking his son down to the park to play some footie and spraining his ankle in the process. God knows with the poor guy's injury record he'd probably be out for the same amount of time... Anyway, just to give you all a heads up: before you start lamenting how laissez faire the French are or even how stupid, spare a thought for the cultural divide. And anyway, this may be advantageous for England! Hell, lets all pitch in and buy les bleus seasonal ski-passes, Laporte incl!
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Apparently all of the Stade Francais team were at a high altitude training camp in the French Alps one week prior to this incident, so presumably he is allowed to ski... sounds a dangerous sport for Rugby pros to do, but there you go!
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shock horror. If I was french I would be blogging about how many english players were allowed to play last weekend. They have already won in the injury department.
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Post 14
As far as the start of professionalism goes.... It was only 11 and a bit years ago that anyone was allowed to be professional in Rugby so 'less than 10 years isn't as big a shout for the Irish. You could have written the same blog 3 years ago swapping the names of countries over and it would have looked like England was coming out on top, which of course they were at the time. Ireland are on top form at the moment but that may or may not last. The fact that anybody has to right such phrases as 'are able to compete with NZ' shows where the real gulf lies. The nations competing in the 6 nations are up and down like a see saw but the Southern Hemisphere teams are pretty consistent. Australia have won all but 3 world cups and NZ are...well... the All Blacks. To get a model of how it should be done, please forgive me Mr. Mogerley, I would rather cast my vision a little further away than Ireland who are having a good championship but, chances are, are still heading for 2nd place.
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To be fair to Marconnet, he says he was snowploughing down a gentle slope with his five-year-old daughter, so it does look like a freak accident.
The contract which French internationals sign with their Federation apparently doesn鈥檛 specifically ban skiing. They might now be tempted to write in a new clause for props, as France is not currently overendowed in that area. What price an uncontested scrum or two on Sunday afternoon?
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Living in the south of France skiing for the French is like beer drinking for most in the English speaking countries. On top of that it is a superb way to stay fit. I would imagine a bout of injury free skiing could be great preparation for a game of rugby.
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I agree with post#14 we need a way of controlling our players for international matches. The match against the Irish showed the results of two weeks preparation against two traiing sessions. Interestingly the week before Ireland A 0 - English Saxons 32 with both sides having the same preparation time. "The battle is not won on the field, but at the HQ". Paraphrased quote from the book "Art of War" by Sun Tzu. Meaning preparation and planning are the key to VICTORY. The answer doesn't have to be central contracts,but we do need something to prepare our players before games. Plus it will stop some of these injuries.
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The incorrect assumption being made here is that skiing is inherently dangerous!! As someone who has skied for 25 years, I have seen many accidents among my associates and unfortunately a few injuries such as broken legs and damaged knees. However its worth saying that all these occurred at relatively low speeds, usually as the result of bad equipment or some other idiot's lack of consideration - such as sitting down doing up their snowboard 10 feet in front of a chairlift exit. I simply can't accept that recreational skiing is any more dangerous than professional rugby!! - The guy is more likely to break his leg getting in and out of his car than on the piste.
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Maybe it's just French style. I imagine the French props have a routine on SN match days which includes, 'Wake up, make love to a beautiful woman, go waterskiing before a five course lunch with wine, thrash Les Ros-Bifs at rugby, drink own body weight in Stella, make love to two beautiful women, write poetry before sleep.'
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Just thought I'd pick up on the point that England can't comment as all our players have to go through 80 mins of top flight rugby the weekend before a game!! How about we sort our own system out before critising the French who will most probably beat us anyway come the weekend.
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Pierrick (post 16) and PMac (21) I've no doubt it must be hard not to strap on some skis if your daughter has just started to learn - sounds like very bad luck.
As for post 24 from Morgan - Pierre, (14) that is a stereotype! (we Englishmen can only aspire to such an image).
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C'est la vie...
I agree with the comment about creativity - these professional players should not feel so restricted that they cannot live their lives. This sort of rigid thinking transmits itself onto the rugby pitch with players unable to respond naturally or think freely.
You can't have exciting creative play with the players mentally wearing strait jackets.
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Well i have just sen the welah team to play Italy. And gareth jenkins have left BColin Charvis out again. What must a player do to get into the welsh team!Its good to see Gareth Thoma back. After the world cup Gareth jekins will be sacked! he nothing at llanelli and wales will win nothing if he stays as coach!Ans im a llanelli fan!
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yes morgan,"it's just French style: 'Wake up, make love to a beautiful woman, go waterskiing before a five course lunch with wine, thrash Les Ros-Bifs at rugby, drink own body weight in Stella, make love to two beautiful women, write poetry before sleep." and that's why we love rugby !!!
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Yes, the French are so stupid. Resting their players! It's just asking for one of them to get injured. If they had any brains they would follow the English example and risk the whole squad. Now, just remind me of how many England are likely to be missing after last weekend?
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Tim Rodber got his first game in the Five Nations (against France if I remember rightly) replacing Dean Richards because Deano had broken his leg... skiing. I seem to remember Bill McLaren mentioning this at some point during the game and at the time (early nineties) I remember reading an article about it, although people didn't make such a fuss about things then.
I don't think there's anything wrong with proffessional players going skiing. I live in France and love skiing and it's relatively rare to get injured skiing - I've suffered hundreds of injuries playing rugby but never once skiing. I don't see any harm in this at all and as Dan says above; I think it's a lot more irresponsible to force international players to play for their clubs during the Six Nations than to allow them to go skiing.
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The Marconnet stuff reminds me that I'm occasionally saddened by the headlong flight into professionalism by the top tiers in RU.
Previously it was one of the few areas in life where real characters of all types, shapes and sizes could live their lives as they wished, meet up on a Saturday, risk life and limb for 80 minutes of no bull**** action, come off the field, shake hands, have a pint and get on with their lives. The sheer variety of character was part of the joy of the game.
Nowadays, because people have paid "good money" to watch a game (surely they did in the past?) and the players are payed to play, everybody has a point of view and think that they have earned the right to own the players and the way they live their lives.
I'm nether a Luddite nor a "play up, play up and play the game" type, but, sometimes, something valuable and rare seems to me to have been lost by the introduction of money and its imperatives into RU.
Tough luck, Sylvain, get well soon!
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Bad luck for Marconnet. With a similar injury, footballer Djibril Cisse had to wait 6 months before he could set foot on a pitch. I do hope he can make it on time for the RWC.
I am not too worried for les Bleus though, neither the English nor the Scottish packs look convincing. And do not count on unconstested scrums to avoid a hiding next Sunday. But I am worried for Stade Fran莽ais: they lost their entire first row (Roncero, Szcarzewski and now Marconnet). The result of the H Cup quarter final in Leicester seems prettty obvious now.
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helo my name is huw edwards i am a very big rugby fan and i play for COBRA 1st, because i am of a large size my knees buckled and i tore both crucial ligaments so i plam to lose a lot of weight, so my so called friends don't call me fatty!
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quite frankly props are so thick i would keep them permanently on a lead let alone allow the morons to go skiing. especially when there have been regular avalanche warnings recently.
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Slightly different tack, but I once broke my foot playing hockey a week before going skiing and had to endure a week of apres ski only while others were skiing in waste deep powder.
If professionals have to hold back on their holidays to safeguard their contractual duties should I, as an amateur hockey player, refuse to play in the lead up to a holiday to safeguard the trip I paid for with cash earn crushing numbers at a desk?
I go for take every day as it comes and make the most of position you find yourself in. Marconnet may well earn a mint commentating at the WC!?
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Morgan Kelly, you forgot that around noon the French player chooses to destroy all of 'es paintings because they are 'trop terrible pour mots'.
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Whatever the rights and wrongs of this, I'm sure it would never happen in this country because the insurances that clubs take out on players (of all football codes) expressly forbid them from doing "risky" activities which could result in career ending injuries.(e.g.skiing, horseriding etc.) If Marconnet cannot play again I very much doubt he would get an insurance pay out and will have ended his career and put himself in the poorhouse in one go!
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It's not a case of wrapping them up in cotton wool but merely logical economics....you don't want your prized asset being unavailable due to an injury/illness.
many professional sportsmen have these sort of clauses written into their contracts that they don't do things such as riding a motorbike, etc, etc, because the clubs who pay them lots and lots of money don't want to lose them to an unnecessary injury. he may be capable of deciding for himself but i'm sure his club won't be happy that he will miss the rest of the season, and yet they are still paying him!
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They guy is a grown man & can decide if he wants to take his kid skiing or not.
I think we have to remember that professional sportsmen are also human beings. They enjoy doing things outwith their sport. I've heard too many people say pro sportsmen shouldn't drink, ski, drive motorbikes etc. The fact is that they want to enjoy life while they are still relatively young. Half of them finish careers in their mid 30's with bad knees, backs, necks & so on. They punish themselves every week on the field & earn the right to do other activities.
Ever heard the term 'all work & no play'. Cut the guy some slack.
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sorry but i don't see what it is all about.
he woukd hace been better off not skiing but after all:
- he could have slipped on a soap bar out of the shower, or get injured crossing the street. Would it be different as far as consecuencies go?!
- the french team doesn't rely on just one player ( I wouldn't like to upset england, but without wilko you would'nt get that far )
good luck for saturday!
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There are many 'comedy' instances of things happening when they shouldn't for professional sportsmen (and I'm sure women).
Some of the 'classics' I fondly remember are:-
Dave Beasant (the football goalkeeper) injuring his foot when trying to cushion the fall of a salad cream bottle falling from his refridgerator
An Italian or Spanish goalkeeper doing exactly the same, but with an aftershave bottle falling from a table
[I'm sure both missed out on playing important games at the time]
Will Jefferson the England A cricketer slicing part of a tendon in his wrist whilst trying to open a window
None of the above instances can be described as high-risk situations, yet still result in injury lay-offs. Therefore, it is unwise to advise people not to ski (or indulge in other sports) due to the injuries they receive whilst in the home. What would people have the sportsmen do, stay locked in a padded room all day?
Let us also remember that Andy Farrell and Mark Butcher (the Surrey and England cricketer) have both been out injured for a while after people drove into the back of their cars. How can you avoid instances like that then?
Let's just all let them get on with what they want to do, they are all grown-ups, and can decide for themselves.
Just keep an eye out for what might fall from your 'fridge, that's all!!
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Olivier Magne was a champion skier in his youth.
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Hi, thanks for all the posts.
I have to admit I鈥檓 surprised so many people don鈥檛 have a problem with players taking part in risky activities right in the middle of the biggest annual tournament in northern hemisphere rugby.
I鈥檇 be fairly unimpressed if England lost a player of Marconnet鈥檚 quality to an avoidable accident (crossing the road/opening the fridge don鈥檛 fall into the same category), but there you go.
Vive la difference!
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i think that the best player in the six nations is italy scrum half allesandro
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Skiing is not particularly dangerous if you don't ski beyond your capabilities.
Playing rugby is a lot more dangerous. Perhaps we should ban the international players from playing rugby in the weeks off during the 6N.
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Iker cassilas, before the 2002 football world cup dropped a heavy bottle of aftershave on his foot, on leaving the shower. consequently he missed the world cup.... should he not shower anymore????
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A lot of people seem think this is about a comparison between the dangers of skiing and of playing rugby. The point is that these players are paid a substantial amount of money to risk their bodies playing rugby, whereas skiing is a hobby. The French are even paid NOT to take physical risks between matches. Unfortunately for the players, or more relevantly their paymasters, unlike a lot of people who get paid to do something else as a profession, a rugby player cannot play (or "work", if you prefer) unless they are in good physical condition.
And in response to a number of other "Oh poor England, risking their squad in the Premiership" comments, only 6 England players in the squad of 22 actually played the weekend before the Ireland match. However, 5 of the Irish players (notably the Ulster boys) also played. The English management is in an unfortunate situation, and this last weekend was particularly bad, but in the particular case of the Irish match the argument doesn't hold water. In addition, with a playing population over 10 times the size of Ireland and funding to match, you'd think that England would have considerably more strength in depth. That certainly used to be the case...
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C'mon England, revert back to that boring game of rugby that we all know you can play, and give us a 6-5 or a 10-9 win over les bleus, open up the championship to keep super saturday interesting., let's face it, 3 from 5 would be better than last year.
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What the hell was he doing skiing in the middle of the six nation! shouldn't he be training or resting or something. Hopefully more will get the idea they can be adventerous during the six nations. Juzion might be blinded by a stray poaintball or Ibanez might be drowned when trying to swn the channel. There hope yet!
Seriously though hope we win so the Irish can take the trophy they deserve it
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