Six Nations XV - take II
- 5 Mar 07, 01:34 PM
London Before the Six Nations began, we had a con-flab here in the 大象传媒 Sport website office about who would be in our combined team of the tournament.
After three rounds of action, our original team have not entirely justified our faith in them...Only six of the original XV make our latest combined XV, which has been based on aggregating my selections with four of my colleagues.
Controversially (or not given the results/?), there's no room for a single player from Scotland, Wales - or England.
We will revisit the subject after the final two rounds. Anyway, see what you think..
Six Nations XV - take II
15 Clement Poitrenaud (Fra) (Selected by Jim Stokes, Sean Davies, Bryn Palmer), Girvan Demspey (Ire) (Selected by Andrew Cotter), Hugo Southwell (Sco) (Selected by Nick Mullins)
Girvan Dempsey is a reassuring presence and Kevin Morgan excelled before injury struck again, but the Frenchman has rediscovered his 茅lan - Bryn Palmer
14 Shane Horgan (Ire) (all)
Literally head and shoulders over any other contenders - Jim Stokes
13 Brian O鈥橠riscoll (Ire) (all)
I think this boy has potential and could one day develop into a decent player - Andrew Cotter
12 Gordon D'Arcy (Ire) (JS, SD, BP), Yannick Jauzion (Fra) (AC, NM)
No mean feat to edge out Yannick Jauzion. Rob Dewey looks the part for Scotland, but the Irishman is now a world-class centre in his own right - Bryn Palmer
11 Christophe Dominici (Fra) (AC, SD, NM, BP), Jason Robinson (Eng) (JS)
Shades it ahead of Jason Robinson whose comeback to the international scene has been impressive - Andrew Cotter
10 Ronan O'Gara (Ire) (BP, NM, AC, JS), David Skrela (Fra) (SD)
Jonny-boy made the glorious return before falling flat, and David Skrela has been a controlling presence, but 鈥淩oG鈥 has raised his game when it counts - Bryn Palmer
9 Alessandro Troncon (Ita) (BP, SD, NM), Pierre Mignoni (Fra) (AC), Dwayne Peel (Wal) (JS)
Man-of-the-match in defeat at Twickenham, and again in leading the Azzurri to a first away win in the tournament. Plenty of life in the old dog yet - Bryn Palmer
8 Denis Leamy (Ire) (AC, JS, BP), Alix Popham (Wal) (SD), Sergio Parisse (Ita) (NM)
A great ball-carrier and, like so many in the Ireland side at the moment, brings a real commitment and energy to the team. Sebastian Chabal is certainly worth a shout, but with Laporte tinkering, not too many French players are featuring in all the game - Andrew Cotter
7 David Wallace (Ire) (BP, NM, SD), Martyn Williams (Wal) (AC), Mauro Bergamasco (Ita) (JS)
Mauro Bergamasco has been to the fore for the Italians, but the Munsterman鈥檚 nous, pace and off-loading skills have kept him ahead of the game - Bryn Palmer
6 Simon Easterby (Ire) (BP, AC, SD), Serge Betsen (Fra) (JS) Alix Popham (Wal) (NM)
Just about the fittest, hardest-working flanker in the Northern Hemisphere - Andrew Cotter
5 Marco Bortolami (Ita) (NM, JS, SD, AC), Alun Wyn Jones (Wal) (BP),
Like O'Connell, Bortolami is a great motivator, leads from the front - Jim Stokes
4 Paul O'Connell (Ire) (BP, NM, JS, AC), Lionel Nallet (Fra) (SD)
A quiet couple of opening games by his standards, but tormented England in every facet of play. Lionel Nallet has also come to the French party - Bryn Palmer
3 Martin Castrogiovanni (Ita) (NM, JS, AC), John Hayes (Ire) (BP), Andrea Lo Cicero (Ita) (SD)
An animal at scrum-time - Jim Stokes. A huge blow for Italy that he's out for the rest of the Six Nations, but they do at least have pretty good cover - Andrew Cotter
2 Raphael Ibanez (Fra) (AC, SD, NM, BP), Rory Best (Ire) (JS)
The best ball-carrying hooker in the Six Nations. And a wise old head - Andrew Cotter
1 Andrea Lo Cicero (Ita) (NM, BP), Olivier Milloud (Fra) (AC), Gethin Jenkins (Wal) (JS), Marco Castrogiovanni (Ita) (SD)
Marcus Horan has had his moments for Ireland but in a non-vintage field, the Italian鈥檚 durability and consistency gets the nod - Bryn Palmer
Wales 27-18 England
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not bad but jauzion has played better rugby than d'arcy so far in the 6n and, as a better player, will generally tend to.
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That is the worst XV I've ever seen! you cannot have a XV consisting of 3 countries in a '6' nations team and some of the players picked are ridiculous. What has Poitrenaud this tournament apart from fill up the number of players on the pitch honestly, an all irsh midfield? I feel that D'Arcy is the most over-rated player in the tournaament! I do not deny that he is a quality player but he has not done anything special. The all Irish back-row as well, they are good but there are better players if they were so good then they would have beaten the frenck at croke park. here is my XV
1.Andrea Lo Cicero
2.Raphael Ibanez
3.Phil Vickery
4.Paul O'Connell
5.Alun Wyn Jones
6.Simon Taylor
7.Mauro Bergamasco
8.Dennis Leamy
9.Alessandro Troncon
10.David Skrela
11.Jason Robinson
12.Rob Dewey
13.Brian O'Driscoll
14.Chris Paterson
15.Girvan Dempsey
We are only half way through the tournament but these are the players I feel have perormed so far.
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Good team, I think Gordan Darcy is ahead of Jauzion, probable has made the most line breaks and yardage in the tournament. I think wallace and Troncon have been outstanding.
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Don't agree with you there honest tim, D'arcy has been supreme.
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WOW! 4 Italians!!!
Are we sure this is the 大象传媒?
8 Irish, 4 Italians and 3 French. One would think that Ireland is marching swiftly towards a Grand Slam. How can the French beat them?
Ooops, they did...
Why do the pundits here disregard the French? After all, Horgan has played only one game on the wing and is in the team.
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Sorry, did I miss something. I could have sworn that England, although pushed quite hard, had a reasonably comfortable win against Italy and played Scotland off the park.
I fear that this team is based on the last round of matches rather than the three rounds that have been seen so far.
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1.Andrea Lo Cicero
2.Raphael Ibanez
3.Martin Castrogiovanni
4.Paul O'Connell
5.Alun Wyn Jones
6 Simon Easterby
7.Mauro Bergamasco
8.Dennis Leamy
9.Alessandro Troncon
10.David Skrela
11.Jason Robinson
12.Rob Dewey
13.Brian O'Driscoll
14.Shane Horgan
15.Clement Poitrenaud
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You have picked the best XV of the last round rather than the tournament so far. For instance, O'Connell was anonymous against France and little better against Wales....Horgan was awful in the centre against France too so has had one good game.... If you genuinely looked at all the players over all the matches so far you would have to look at Alun Wyn Jones and Ian Gough, Clerc, Robinson, Taylor, Chabal, Jauzion....In fact, have you watched France clinically dismantle all in front of them while Ireland have had one stormer?!?? I realise some of these players have only played 2 games, but 2 good games is better than 1!
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i agree wit nine-fifteen that is ridiculous having a 6n xi with 3 nations in it sort ure self out that is biast, racist sexist and worst of all wrong.
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To post number 2,Poiternoid has been exceptional in the 6nations what r u on also how can u have Skrela, ahead of O'gara thats just left me baffeled, and rob dewey ahead of Darcy/Jauzion r u mad. Have you not been watching the 6nations. You've also left the best player so far out the team thats David Wallice if Your Brain didnt pick it up.
Chris Patterson hasnt done anything so far, he's a good player but hasn't justified his postion in the team.
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I think that Wilkinson deserves a spot in the team! I also think Jason Robinson deserves to be in there as well.
Wt's with all the Irish in there.
They've gt some world class players but again so have the English!
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Comment 2 - How can you NOT have David Wallace at 7? He's the player of the tournament so far, nevermind the best openside. D'Arcy over-rated? Don't be ridiculous, & to have Rob Dewey ahead of him is laughable. & Simon Taylor ahead of Easterby at 6? How?? I can only assume that you're Scottish....
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come come chaps
To be fair, it is about right the ireland have more than the french in that they lost/choked/were robbed in the last minute and have looked comfortable in every other game they have had in the last year.
i must admit to not thinkng darcy is over rated, he is a world class centre who makes impossible yards and his work "off the ball" is great also, and perhaps the irish back row get to look pretty good when there are effiectively five of em.
everyone else deserves a shout too, but an italian 9 instead of peel? hmmmm, i think the lads at the beeb have been on the happy juice
fair point on clement at 15 - great player but anon 6nats.
finally a word on horgan:- he isnt a great "wing", but he is a great player, isnt it funnt how often he is in the game and scoring tries. ireland have put together a team that is a bit unorthodox with pacey props (horan) and slowish wings (horgan) but it more then works
kind regards,
NEil
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Horgan on the wing is a pretty contentious decision given his one performance so far on the wing but it was a pretty high quality performance. As for those who criticise d'arcy, i suggest you learn a bit more about the game, he's the kind of centre that nobody in the world has right now and does alot of work that is obviously unnappreciated. Jauzion is class but hasn't quite hit the heights. France played wonderfully well for 20 minutes against Ireland. Apart from that they haven't been brilliant but they surely deserve more than three players on the team. Bit of a green bias for some reason
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I agree, this only looks at the last round. Robinson needs to be in the team and Horgan, as good as he is, did not do enough in one game to oust players that have done it over several. Maybe he will be in the team at the end of the 6N but one game is to soon.
Not sure about the all Ireland back-row either but I agree that the French are probably changing their team too much so it is hard to know which one of them should get the nod.
Finally, Paul O'Connell. Arguably the best forward in Europe, although not on current form. His lack of form has much to do with the Irish not hitting top form in the first two games, surely someone else has played well in all 3. Again at the end of the 6N he could get the nod but it is unfair to pick him based on one good performance!
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Big joke !
What about the French forwards ? Marconnet ? Milloud ? Nallet , Thion ?...just only one in that selection!!! Don't you remember the front five have smashed the Irish pack...and more, the italian one in Rome...
And what about Clerc, not only for his tremendous display at Croke but also his against the welsh..
Really (8 Irish, 4 Italians...and 3 poor French sorry but on the road four a GS. Ooops! ) how can a judgement be so biased...and blind ?
Almost an outrage to the beloved game of rugby !
cheers , nevertheless.
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Yes, Wales and England have underperformed and Scotland have been truly dreadful, but surely the British Broadcasting Corporation could pick at least one British player. You can play well in a losing cause (eg a dozen or so Welshmmen in Paris) and poorly when winning (eg O'Gara and Darcy against England).
O'Gara and Dominici always seem to figure in these teams, which makes me wonder whether your experts watch the same matches as the ones you Broadcast.
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Surely Alun Wyn Jones over Bortolami?
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A better question would be what 6 nations team would you pick now that we are half way through the 6 nations that would give the AB's a game. I'm assuming everyone is fit given that it'd need that level of luck to have a chance!
1. Marconnet
2. Ibanez
3. Castrogiovanni
4. Bortolami
5. O'Connell
6. White (Jason)
7. Bergamasco
8. Leamy
9. Peel
10. O'Gara
11. Jones (Mark)
12. BOD
13. Jauzion
14. Robinson
15. Lewsey
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wow!! Lots of bitter English supporters on today, must be cause the cricketers are getting tanked today aswell, Ireland for Cricket and RWC 2007!!!
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good heavens, soz to interject again, but "front five have smashed the Irish pack" re france, i dont believe we watched the same match, the one were ireland were winning untilt he last minute and the pack (green one that is) mauled forward about 40metres in the last minutes for final penalty. ireland choked in the first half of that match, thats all, it really wasnt much to do with france. thats more annoying as an irishman but its also a fact. if we played without fear and with confidence from the start with passion and no emotional baggage we would have one. i would rather the french pack smashed us! i could handle that
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i think there might be a few staunch england fans commenting here who are still a bit sore after the drubbing at the hands of the irish. whats wrong with having a 15 from only 3 countries? if you want to see all the countries represented than the other 3 will have to play better rugby! wilkinson might have played well in the 1st game, but since then he has been well below par.
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Have to agree with comment 12, Wallace def the standout player in the tournament so far, agree with most of the team but heres mine....
1. Lo Cicero
2. Ibanez
3. Castrogiavanghi
4. Bortolami
5 O'Connell
6. Easterby
7. Wallace
8. Leamy
9. troncon
10.o'gara
11. Clerc
12. D'arcy
13. O'driscoll
14. Horgan
15. Dempsey
Dominici, Dewey, Southwell, Peel, Robinson best of the rest in the backs and in the forwards Marconnet, Nallet and Martyn Williams.
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All I can say is 'have the 大象传媒 pundits actually been watching the 6 nations???'
This line up is ridiculous & as others have said, based on the last round of games.
Why is O'Gara ahead of Skrela? Skrela has a great boot, strong runner & great tackler. Remember that the French won their game at Croke park.
Troncon is in there because he is an old head who helps control the Italian pack. Apart from that he is hardly the most skilled 9 in the 6 nations.
Sean Lamont & Shane Horgan have had similar performances so far. Only thing is that Horgan has centres which provide space for him.
Very biased opinions of the tournament so far me thinks.
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Welshman here not really fussed about it ,but post 11? england world class players? when johnnys about hes a bit of alrite but who else is there? lets be honest the scots the welsh and the english havent really stepped up this year! Ireland for the championship! not quite sure whso gonna beat france tho!
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Pretty fair team though i would of had Alun Wyn Jones myself....
I cannot believe there are people suggesting Phil Vickery given how pathetic hes been so far, hes been penalised 5 times for illegal binding and isnt even fit, yet another example of English players living off reputation and not form.
As for Skrella instead of ROG, thats laughable.
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I never thought I would lose the fight to support the Welsh players or team.
Alas, I cannot find any member of the current team to justify inclusion this includes the coaching team members as well.
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I'd agree with that on the whole, maybe a mention for Clerc but otherwise pretty good. The reason for there being no English, Scotish or Welsh players is because they haven't played well enough or consistently. I've heard campaigns for Wilkinson, Robinson and Vickery and the first two have played reasonably considering their return to the international stage is recent, but Vickery has not shown himself as a starting prop let alone a good captain. The Welsh second rows have a case but they have not been dominant enough to boot out the starting pair mentioned above. As for Chris Paterson, a good kicking game and a few good runs would deserve a place on my bench but no more than that really. Ok so here's my go at a team.
1.Andrea Lo Cicero
2.Raphael Ibanez
3.Martin Castrogiovanni
4.Paul O'Connell
5.Marco Bortalami
6.Simon Easterby
7.David Wallace
8.Dennis Leamy
9.Alessandro Troncon
10.Ronan O'Gara
11.Christophe Dominici
12.Gordon D'Arcy
13.Brian O'Driscoll
14.Shane Horgan
15.Girvan Dempsey
Replacements
16.Rory Best
17.Olivier Milloud
18.Lionel Nallet
19.Alix Popam
20.Pierre Mignoni
21.Chris Paterson
22.Christophe Dominici
What do you reckon???
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Hahahahahaha
You get paid for this right? Well thats another reason to scrap the licence fee. Really such genius as Connell who lets not forget was roundly slated for limp performances in the first 2 games, one storming match later he's the world best, compared to Nallet who comprehensively outplayed him in their head to head. I could go on but I would just angry
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Okay, I get it, the only purpose of this ridiculous selection is to attract a record number of protests ; here is mine : as a french supporter, who has seen his team produce two good games, and one average (vs Wales) , with three wins, I can only laugh at seeing only 3 bleus in your XV
, 8 irishmen... who won the other day at Croke Park ?
A more sensible XV
1.Andrea Lo Cicero
2.Raphael Ibanez
3.Martin Castrogiovanni
4.Paul O'Connell
5.Lionet Nallet
6 Simon Easterby
7.David Wallace
8.Sebastien Chabal
9.Alessandro Troncon (but Mignoni has been awesome too)
10.David Skrela
11.Jason Robinson
12.Gordon d'Arcy
13.Brian O'Driscoll
14.Vincent Clerc (the outstanding player of the tournament so far, to leave him out is simply nonsense)
15.Clement Poitrenaud
6 frenchmen, 5 irishmen, 3 italians and one englishman, that's more balanced, wouldn't you agree ?
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Wilkinson would absolutely tear Ronan O'Gara to pieces if he was;
1) Behind a winning pack and
2) Not injured (as he clearly was against Ireland)
Neil Best should be on there and Robinson instead of Horgan (What has he done this six nations?)
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Wilkinson would absolutely tear Ronan O'Gara to pieces if he was;
1) Behind a winning pack and
2) Not injured (as he clearly was against Ireland)
Neil Best should be on there and Robinson instead of Horgan (What has he done this six nations?)
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Michael.
Chris Paterson hasn't justifed his place in the team? What? Scoring nearly all our points isn't justification?
In fact, the only way he hasn't justifed his spot on the wing is that he's probably played even better at 10 in the tournament...
Why does everyone love Horgan? The guy was obviously too soft at school to play in the forwards....:-)
The anti-frenchness is pretty clear also. Ireland have palyed well, once. (Against a very average England side)
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On a point of order - this was the best XV, not the fairest. The selections were made on the basis of best man for each position based on form so far, not on the basis of picking a team that represented all six countries.
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You have picked the best XV of the last round rather than the tournament so far
Well, you are only as good as your last game...
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I'd simply select the English XV. Firstly to give them another chance to warm up and secondly just because they are the world champions!!!!
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Id agree with most of that team apart from skela at stand off, parisse at eight, problem is no one is playing really outstanding rugby consistently, all teams have had a good game and a bad game, bar wales and scotland, i dont think new zealand will be worrying to much
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Aye James Elliott,
Jonny "chocolate man" Wilkinson must play......only after an hour or two in the fridge to harden him up a bit!. I give you - there are a few contentious selections here - but all can be justified. Wilkinson....no-where it on performances to date. Skrela as back up O/H.
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Some of these comments are astonishing. The only contentious selection is that of Horgan ahead of Robinson or Clerc.
As for the WC, I expect Ireland to have their revenge against France and dump them into a quarter final against the ABs.
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Wow...some interesting responses.
I think others spoke to this, but it seems the objective as to pick the best 15, not a representative team from all 6 squads. In that case you could argues that it should be an all French affair as some of our bloggers seem to think that the possibility of winning a grand slam nullifis the performance of all other teams and players.
Speaking of the French...Ireland lost by 3 points...I would hardly call this a "clinical dismantling of Ireland" or the Irish being "crushed."
Also, there might have been more French included if LaPorte would stop tinkering.
Yes, i am irish, but I do have to question the inclusion of Easterby and O'Connell...both are game winners, but apart from the England game, they have both been quiet in the tournament so far.
Wilko did have a great game against Scotland, but struggled against Italy and was all but invisible against Ireland...I am sure he will return to greatness, but he is not there yet.
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o'driscoll has none nothing yet in the 6 nations and the same for d'arcy and horgan.
1. lo cieco
2. ibanez
3. castrogiovani
4. o'connel
5. bortolami
6. serge betsen
7. bergamasco
8. chabel
9. troncon
10. skrela
11. domonici
12. bergamasco
13.jauzione
14. robinson
15. paterson
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i think popham should be in the back row somewhere, he is one of the welsh who have really shined through despite the teams bad form in previous matches
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James...
two mighty big if's...neither seems likely to happen in the near future.
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As an irishman i'm amazed at the lack of french on the team. The Italian's have won one game...correct? and Scotland practically gave that to them on a plate. 4 players...if you're picking on form i think that's crazy. Best no.9 by a mile is Mr.Peel and Kevin Morgan has played incredibly well too.
My 15 you ask?
1.Andrea Lo Cicero or any Frenchie
2.Raphael Ibanez
3.Castro Giovanni or any Frenchie
4.Alun Wyn Jones or any Fre 2nd row
5.Paul O'Connell
6.Dennis Leamy
7.David Wallace
8.Sebastien Chabal
9.Dywane Peel
10.David Skerla or Wilko
11.Jason Robinson
12.Gordon d'Arcy
13.Brian O'Driscoll
14.Christophe Dominici
15.Kevin Morgan
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I'd generally agree with the composite team. I'm not a welshman but the one person i'm surprised hasn't been mentioned is Kevin Morgan for Full Back. He was brilliant against Ireland and one of the few welsh players not to look a complete idiot against scotland before he was injured.
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...No really did'nt see the same match, Neil R....we should have won it as the first half, in fact...and with all respect I have for Irish team, how can you say that your defeat hasn't " MUCH TO DO WITH FRANCE" '!!!
...just a team you didn't beat since 2002.
another interesting point, folks : what to say of a team that is capable of changing so many players at each match, and still remaining so efficient ? what to say about the value of each of those players ?
Well, let go on not to select them( or so few) in your selection , will be a good sign for French Team ;-)
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Re: Pete and Micoutis i generally agree with those teams but not sure about Dempsey who has been solid but nothing out of the ordinary (Poitrenaud or maybe Paterson in there instead), Easterby has worked hard agreed but certainly not stood out (tho not easy when you have the class of Ireland's back row) so id have betsen in there and id say Dominici to get the nod at 11 as well...difficult to merit Horgan (as good as he is) with a place there as he has only had one great game especially as you have Clerc there too (though not sure about comments labelling him the player of the tournament so far!)...Leamy/Chabal = tough call
nine-fifteen: D'Arcy over-rated! lol seriously watch him play next time he is world class...Phil Vickery in that team, you are having a laugh! Dewey has played excellently, as has
Jauzion but still think the Irish midfield should get the nod...
Anyone who doesn't include Wallace is having a laugh...i thought he was very unlucky not to get MoM against England...and O'Connell's performance against the English was that good he deserves a spot (he had only be playing poorly previously judged against his own high standards and i certainly don't think the French took him to pieces either)
To Richard...O'Gara and D'Arcy had a bad game against England did they? funny that, i must have been watching a different game as well!
Good to see a couple of Italians in the front row, richly deserved i'd say as they've caused major problems both against the English and Scottish
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James - comment 32 - what are you on about saying neil best should be in the selecton? he's only played around 25 mins in total so far - I'm a fan of his but you can't get in the team on that alone. As for all you d'arcy-bashers out there - himself and o'driscoll are the best centre partnership in europe without question - you gotta have them both on. I agree there should be more french in the team but in the front 5 rather than in the backs
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Ireland will have a hell of a job to dump france into a quater final with NZ! If they cannot beat the French at home with fantastic support at Croke Park- what chance do they have against France in France with the immense pressure of the World Cup in the balance? It would be a huge by pleasant upset however!
Oh, and the 大象传媒 clearly have not got a clue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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So far the best team would be:
1 Marconnet or Milloud - Laporte has switched them around, but both have performed well.
2 Ibanez - The only quality hooker in Europe AT THE MOMENT.
3 Castrogiovanni - Backed up his performances for Leicester with domination in the scrums so far.
4 Bortolami - Good leader, and has been part of an excellent Italian scrum.
5 Wyn Jones or O'Connell - Wyn Jones has played well in all games, whereas POC has had only one stormer, unfortunately against England.
6 Easterby - Has been quality in all the games so far.
7 Harinordiquy - Great in the lineout, although he is probably better at 8.
8 Leamy - Done lots of work, one of Ireland's best players so far.
9 Mignoni - Why hasn't this bloke played before? He has been amazing.
10 O'Gara - Playing behind an advancing pack has helped him, and his positional kicking is currently excellent.
11 Robinson - 3 tries in 2 games shows great finishing skills.
12 D'Arcy - Playing as well as he has ever done, though Jauzion could start to push him close.
13 O'Driscoll - No explanation needed.
14 Clerc - Horgan has had only had one good game, whereas Clerc has been consistent, and what about that try vs. Ireland.
15 Poitrenaud - No outstanding candidates, and he has proved a solid, counter-attacking player.
What do you think?
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Re: Ed,
What have u been watching?????
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ref Post 2- worst ever team?
If I had the opportunity to select a team forthe British Lions the first 2 I would pick would be D'arcy and David Wallace.
I think the journalists have got it pretty accurate.
Haven't seen much of France ( except in Dublin from the terrace!) but I didn't watch a demolition of Ireland!
Kevin Morgan of Wales impressed me.
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its seems some people are watching the wrong sport if they think Girvan Dempsey deserves to be on the xv . i am an irish fan through and through.. an to think that people here think that gd is a player withsomethin to offer other than falling to the floor is astounding . but it is not his fault he is there that prize goes to Eddie O sullivan , along with the loss to france too. its no doubt that he is an excellent organiser but his selection decisions are shockin , to put darcy,horgan, and murphy out of position single handedly lost us the gs.
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I'm a bit surprised Jason Robinson didn't get in ahead of Dominici, without Robinson England are rather toothless! Vincent Clerc should probably be in ahead of Horgan. In fact I'd say Dennis Hickie has been more consistent than Horgan.
O'Gara deserves his spot, Skrela has been great and probably more consistent but he's hasn't been as great as O'Gara (who has been at times worse, see the first quarter of the France game).
It's difficult to argue against picking the entire Ireland backrow, who have been outstanding all tournament. There have been some amazing backrow performances this year (Chabel vs. Italy, Williams vs. Scotland, Parrise vs. Scotland/England) but the Irish backrowers have been class throughout.
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ED, to include 1 Irishman in the starting 15 is stupid you clearly are just an upset Englishman who happened to be supporting a team that lost by 30 points, and O Gara has been the best out half in the tournement so far, I was surprised with the amount of Irish and Italians, but very few scots, English or Welsh would get in the team, I could only argue that the french should have one or two more at the expence of Ireland to balance it up but overall it's pretty fair, and If Ireland keep up that level of performance there will only be more Irishmen in the final team.
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If you had to select a team for the 'Britsh' Lions then those Irish players would not be in it! Makes me wonder about the standard of education in Britain these days.
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Much more realistic than the first team.
To those who have criticised having so many Irish and talking about our performances against Wales and France, remember this: we strangled a confident Welsh team in Cardiff in the best game of the weekend, and a week later we were very unlucky to lose to France after a brilliant second half.
Had France not had that bounce of the ball would the Ireland critics here be quite so vocal? It smacks of jealousy ;)
Regardless, here's to Vickery recovering, and England stealing it in Paris - all of Ireland will be cheering you on :)
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good team i reckon possibly with the exception of horgan on the wing and easterby at 6. i think the irish contingent are well deserved, and the english need to stop comlpaining, they have 2 world class players wilko and robbo and thats it! they beat 2 terrible teams and got thumped by a good one.
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What have you based this on?
Seems to me that its only the last games. Also why arnt there any english in the squad because wilko has been outstanding for most of the tournament. This is even more impressive seeing as he hasnt played in an english jersy for a couple of years. Robinson has also been great.
As well as this why are there four italians i dont think any of them have stood out so far.
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the only real issue up for debate here are for out half, were three players have played well throughout,
at no.11, were shane horgan hasnt really played that well is up against jaon robinson, but iengland choked in their big game,
and at 15, were kevin morgan had a blinder against ireland and then played well against scottland until he got injured
david wallace has been supreme and there is no debate that he deserves a spot ahead of Mauro Bergamasco
and also Gordon D'arcy has been immense so far and although Jauzion has played well D'rcy has played better
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Honest Tim (1), you really have written some c*%p in these blogs. You can't be a rugby player or supporter, you obviously have no rugby brain or otherwise. For all you lovely English fans that can't stand your World Champions team to get the biggest drubbing since they lifted the webb ellis, read my XV and understand that it is only fitting that the team to do it is the one you haven't beaten home or away since Sydney 03. Also the team that will worry the ABs come the autumn. I was at Croke, last week and was overjoyed by the irish display, and had they played in the same mindset against France, they would've won comfortably, not as big a margin, but won, no doubt.
15 Girvan Dempsey, Safe as houses
14 Shane Horgan, awesome under cross field kicks, and forearms on David Strettle, aswell as spotting gaps opened by BoD
13 BoD, ave i mentioned him?
12 Gordon D'Arcy, the most effective centre partner for BoD and amazing work rate. Jauzion, not even close, he's been played out of the games by good defence so far, and has been awful in the HC compared to what he has been.
11 Andrew Trimble, not given the game time thus far, due to great form by D Hickie, however closest to him would be Rougerie or Dominici.
10 RoG, no not Jonny, not even close.
9. Pierre Mignoni. Closely followed by Dwayne Peel or Alessandro Troncon, heart beat of the azzurri.
1. Sylvain Marconnet. Excellent all round
2. Rory Best. The most consisent hooker, closely followed by his replacement Jerry Flannery, solid.
3. Martin Castrogiovanni, on rep more than overall performance, followed by John Hayes on performance only.
4. Paul O'Connell, Immense against England.
5. Donncha O'Callaghan, Logical partner to the ginger giant, and has performed admirably, closely followed by Marco Bortolami.
6. Neil Best. Not enough game time, but has more to offer than Simon Easterby, closely followed by him.
7. David Wallace, followed by a long way off, Immanol Harinordiquy, the rest don't register, perhaps Lewis Moody would have been my only English selection had he not been injured. Williams was ok against France, but nothing special otherwise.
8. Denis Leamy, Hands like shovels, the ball is safe when Denis has it, his hard yards are immense.
Very Irish and French XV, because, quite frankly they are the 2 best teams in the NH, by a royal mile. Anyone who knows even a little about the game will pick from these 2 sides.
Wake up guys, Ireland are the form home nation, get behind them for the World Cup in the autumn.
Maybe they should be called the All Greens!!
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Not too bothered by the forwards but backs
Peel
Wilko
Robinson (3 tries in 2 games- can horgan match that? no. Because he is a tall, unskilful brute who has the rugby brain of Grewcock)
D'arcy (absolute class)
BOD (Best back in world rugby along with Dan Carter)
Clerc (I would say Dominici but considering there is noone I would rather see spear-tackeled in world rugby I wont)
Lewsey (dependable, hard as nails and given half decent service will find the form of '03)
Coach? Probably Andy Robinson- just to see if where he how far out of position he would pick the players.
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"13 Brian O鈥橠riscoll (Ire) (all)
I think this boy has potential and could one day develop into a decent player - Andrew Cotter"
Just thought I'd pull out this quote from Andrew Cotter from the top of the page and have a laugh. BOD is arguably the best centre in the world, northern or southern hemisphere. How much better does he have to get to fulfil this potential? :)
Also my understanding of "decent player" would be "ok", "not bad", "average".
Yep, keep trying Brian, you never know boy, one day...one day LOL!!!!
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I got as far as O'Gara and lost the will to live!
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good selection, i'm scottish and bar rob dewey and simon taylor none of them really deserve a place in the best six nations team. o'gara HAS to go for skrela although i would put a few extra french players instead of italians in the front row. yes they beat scotland, but think about it, do you really think italy would've beatin scotland had scotland been utter S@!T in the first 6 mins.
!!!C'MON FRANCE AGAINST ENGLAND!!!
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Wee Man I'm Irish myself but that side you've picked generally seems to be based more on your strong passion for Ireland rather than a level headed opinion on the overall performances of the players from all nations involved! e.g. picking Neil Best, Andrew Trimble and to a lesser extent Shane Horgan who have barely featured thus far...
That being said i totally agree with your comment about honest tim he really has said some c*%p as you say!
I believe Ireland are right up there with France in terms of quality in their team at the moment and if they played like they did against England i think the result could have been different but i do think there are a few French players in the back of my mind that could have got mentioned in your team there!
Also please Tom don't fool yourself into thinking Wilko has been excellent most of THIS tournament, i think he has been average overall, reliable at goal kicking though and with a decent performance against a fairly poor Scotland team...that being said theres still world class quality in him and given the chance he could put in some performances for people to be proud of very soon
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As a neutral not even from Europe and therefore not bound by any strong alliegances I think that's a decent list.I disagree with Horgan being "head and shoulders" above the other wingers and would have Robinson ahead of him and think Skrela edges ROG and not the other way round but if it were possible(and it's not it seems)to put your country alliegances aside u'd realise that that list isnt that far off the mark.
This isnt a peace treaty it's a list of arguably the best players in the tournament so representation is irrelevant,for those looking for token selections.And there are those saying it's a HORRIBLE list...then suggesting 1 or 2 other players who are already acknowledged as close seconds anyway.Not that it's not slightly amusing to see some reactions.
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um....i was kinda thinking, they should all be irish! as for the loss against france, can anyone really say we didnt deserve it? i think the bull [john hayes] has played really well this 6 nations, but prob not good enough for the first 15
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I think wilkinson was unluky not to get in ahead of O'Gara, but Lamont has broken the gain line almost every time he gets the ball I'd put him in ahead of Dominici. As for the centers I think that Dewey might become even better later on in the tounament but right now i think Darcy is probaly the best choice
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I think that none of the english or scottish players really merit inclusion in the team, perhaps alun wyn jones and alix popham though with regards to wales - as they have been exceptional so far.
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Chabal is twice the player Leamy is end of story. SEABASS all the way,a true 8
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To be able to honestly say that every one of those players deserves to be ahead of any English player in their respective position depresses me slightly. It also astonishes this rugby fan's mind that the whole of the back row is, rightfully, populated by the Irish; it was very unfortunate they lost to France, but the only reason they managed to claw their way back into that match was due, in no small part, to an incredible second half performance by the Irish back row.
The real let down for me was the performance of the Welsh team; from grand slam to possible wooden sppons before the WRU can say, "Let's appoint a second-rate coach and hope for the best".
Having said all that, there's still a couple of matches left and I for one fully expect a few more suprises in the coming matches.
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Trying to be as fair as possible (and admitting that not being fair is half the fun):
15 Kevin Morgan
14 Horgan (??? Clerc)
13 D'Arcy
12 O'Driscoll
11 Dominci
10 O'Gara
9 Mignoni / Troncon
8 Leamy
7 Wallace
6 Easterby
5 Bartolami
4 O'Connell
3 Castrogiovanni
2 Ibanez
1 Marconnet
For the English who probably cannot fathom the lack of their team-members in the selection, I would ask that they read recent comments from Will Greenwood and Joe Worsley (and forget the idiocy of some such as(no name mentioned to avoid embarassment) who, on 大象传媒 RAdio 5 Live forecast an English World Cup Final place on the basis of a victory against a truly poor Scottish team. Wilkinson has been, on balance, mediocre, the pack rumbling around as usual but to little effect, Farrell shouldn't be there, Morgan and Strettle look like finds, Vickery shouldn't be playing much less captaining...I could go on.
I think the Welsh have unearthed a star in Wynn-Jones, Popham and Martin Williams outstanding, together wih Peel close to my team.
Scotland (well forget it, really, even against an an ubeleivable Welsh selectin, could have played the rest of the year and wouldn't have scored a try...) The French are pushing my selection in most positions, but they only won in Dublin throuhgh Irish choking)
Well that's my view
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Is everyone commenting Irish? The Welsh have played some good rugby and Jason Robinson ahead of Horgan for sure!! However, for all those O'Gara supporters out there, he has performed much better than Skrela throghout the tournament. Here's my team:
1. Lo Cicero
2. Ibanez
3. Castrogiovanni
4. Bortolami (better over 3 games than O'Connell)
5. Wyn Jones
6. Easterby
7. Wallace (player of the 6nats so far)
8. Leamy
9. Peel
10. O'Gara
11. Dominici
12. D'Arcy
13. O'Driscoll
14. Robinson
15. Lewsey
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Has everyone forgotten that France has not 'clinically dismantled' every team in the 6n. Ireland played a brutal first half against these boys and still could have one. A last minute try was all there was in it. Ireland beat Wales 'pulling away' and let's not even discuss the England game. Would be still be complaining if Ireland prevented that last French try?? Think about it....
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no 7 steve howse are you seriously saying you'd pick david skrela over ronan o gara?! what a joke. o gara is the best fly half in the world aside from dan carter. ireland may have lost to france but o gara was fabulous and out classed skrala in every way. plus skrala is very unpredictable like many of the french players. to be world class you have to play well regularly. ronan has accomplished that. frnace havent got the best fly halves.they over hype themselves. i mean where is michalak now? ronan is definitely the best northern hemisphere fly half.
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The team is totaly justified as Scotland have been a shambles, Wales too and England are a one man team ie. Johnny Wilkinson. Italy have a strong pack that nearly always performs yet only for their backs they don't produce a bigger impact on the field. Ireland have been the team of the tornament by far, yes they were slow against Wales but had the character to provail when not at their peak. Against France they started slow but once the occasion passed they were easily the better team ( if it wasn't for the fact that the game was played at Croke Park they would have ran out comfortable winners ), only to fall down to a last minuet try....big deal, don't make them a bad team or mean France can beat them again in the world cup, which brings me to my next point that, if Ireland beat France in the world cup, which i expect them to do, then i think a NEw Zealand vs Ireland final is on the cards. O'Gara is better than Wilkinson and O'Driscoll and Darcy are the best pairing in International rugby today!!!
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Wee-Man: I do accept your argument that The Irish and the French are the best two NH teams by a country mile. As a logical progression of that, the team will be dominated by Franco-Irish names. However to suggest that the entire back line-bar troncon should be an all Irish affair is ludicrous! Do you really think D'arcy is better than Jauzion?? Does Horgan credit a place at Vincent clerc's expense?? Has trimble had enough game-time to oust Robinson from the line-up?? Best over chabal??? Dempsey in there at all????!!! And finally most disturbing, you leave out the best and only quality hooker in the NH in the name of Ibanez (he's the only hooker who wouldn't get eaten for breakfast by NZ's Kevin Meelaumu) The Irish are a good team but do us a favour and stop puttin them on a ridiculous pedestal that they will surely fall off come the autumn.. BTW this is from a neutral onlooker.. Very French and Irish, but ridiculously so some (especially in the Irish quarters) not on merit for WHOLE championship.. Sort ur life out son...
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There are far too many who clearly have not played the game of rugby and who have not watched the games in any great detail.
Gordon D'Arcy has made more yards than any other in the tournament, more line breaks and gets through more work at the breakdown than most flankers. O'driscoll while not having made the impact you would normally associate him with, has similarly to D'Arcy been immense in defence.
The irish back row has been selected because it has been the most balanced and effective in the tournament. Simon Easterby has turned over and spoiled so much ball, Davis wallace links play between the forwards and backs better than any other No.7 in the tournamnet and Denis Leamy has consistent broken the gain line and won ball on the ground. The irish players are not glamourous but they are extremley effective this is so often overlooked. Look at the irish front row, everybody said they would be destroyed and they were not, similarly against england the irish front row more than held their own.
At present scotland are attrocious, wales are simply not clinical enough (no point throwing the ball around if you always loose), England have been playing the same type of rugby that won them the world cup but without the players to do it. They are extremley labourious and slow. France are more consistent than they used to be, seems Lporte is trying to rotate like NZ before the WC to test out players.
At the moment Ireland and France are well ahead of the rest of the 6N teams, but if a few key players go missing from any of the teams it all changes. Come the WC if key personell are fit both England and wales are equal to Ireland and france in a one off game!!
But at present Irelands 12 & 13 are the best centres in the world and Easterby, Wallace Leamy are as effective and as balanced as Back, Hill, Dallagio were in 2003!!
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how can you put o connell in????yes he had a great ame against england but against in the 2 other games he was missing.not a wise decision.
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I am getting sick and tired of all this Peel-worshipping. He has done nothing to put himself ahead of Ellis this 6 nations. Peel has had 3 decent games. Ellis has had one outstanding game, and two decent ones. Against Italy, England struggled, yet he still provided good service despite the pack going backwards. It was similar agianst Ireland, where he still made several halfbreaks and provided good service. People don't give him enough credit because there is a natural bias against him due to a poor six nations last year.
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Guy, I'm with you - Wee Man, take off the green tinted glasses.
Ireland were lucky not to be 20 pts down at half time against the French, yes we ground them down in the second half but we bottled it. While playing very well Ireland defeated a disappointing English side who I doubt will perform as poorly again. And to open we struggled to beat a very game Welsh side whoe were short 4-6 first teamers - Ireland were close to full strength.
France are using the 6N to build a squad of 30 players who can compete at a very high level - very difficult to see them foregoing to anyone on homesoil save the Kiwis this year.
England apart from the very welcome returns of Wilkinson and Robinson have been disappointing, Wales- enigmatic, Scotland, what's going on up there?! and Italy - brutally tough and entertaining!
I'd question, Easterby's, Horgans, Truncon's inclusion, and O'Connell apart from England was below par. Peel is an immaculate 9. However anyone questioning O'Gara as the fly half of the 6N to date need to reflect on this. Find a world class rated 10 who has does not operate behind a go forward pack? Wilkinson in WC 2003 and before, Dan Carter, Rob Andrew, Michael Lynagh, grant Fox, they all played in good/great teams predominantly behind strong packs. Their ability to control a game was key and more importantly they were impeccable goal kickers - huge for any team. O'Gara is that for Ireland just now and few are close to him today. Best of luck for the rest of the year guy's.
France will win the championship and Ireland will again finish nowhere...
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I've read down the various comments; 1) Wilkinson as first choice out-half - are you serious? 2) Jason Robinson arguably as a winger, but the team as a whole is there on merit (including all the Italians) and I think it's there or thereabouts.
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Quite simply what does Paterson have to do to get into a mixed team. First not picked for the Lions and now not picked here (quite different I know). Chris has been consistently superb for the last couple of years and has raised his game further this year ie. won teh game for us against Wales, excellent against England and brought us back to teh point where we should have beaten Italy. I suspect he wasnt picked because he is being judged on his captain duties, which he isn't, but noone can deny he is one of teh most consistent performers in the six nation. credit where credit is due eh??!!
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" The French...but they only won in Dublin through Irish choking " !!!?
Honestly, reading some comments ( not all but the large majority )from English speaking side of 6N, one can wonder what those would be if any other team had had the same 3 victories in a row (2outside)
Irish lost against France by 3.BUT THEY LOST !!! AT HOME !
They crushed England BUT IT WAS ENGLAND. NOT FRANCE.
Folks we don't want to be consider like the best in the world. ABs are and by far...But a little bit more of honesty and fairness would be appreciated.
When France lose, we lose and we don't hide ourselves behind "IFs", " CHOKING" and "BAD BOUNCE".We consider that the team in front was better and the French work hard to be better next time. Humility is one of the secret of that French team, i guess.
That's why we prepare for a very tough venue in Twickenham.English will be ready. GREAT GAME !
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As a scot I can't complain none of us have been picked but I don't like the team. The big issue for me is on the wing where Clerc and RObinson have been in excellent finishing form and for more than just one game. I would love to say Patterson as well but wont as I don't want people thinking I am being biassed, just honest...Anyway the rest of the team is a fair reflection although can O'Connell really get the nod after one good game?
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Selection of Horgan has to be a joke - it isn't 1st April is it? Quality wingers in defence and attack need strength sure, but pace and elusiveness as well. Horgan really should only make the 2nd XV bench i.e. about 4th choice!! I agree with many of the comments that suggest it's a team based on the last game, not the 3 to date. Troncon? Hardly - ironically, Stringer misses out in an otherwise over biased Irish selection, and has the Irish backrow en bloc deserved selection. The English one was very poor last time around, and I'm not suggesting their selection at all, but their eclipse doesn't warrant the selection of all 3 Irishmen.
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To answer a question not directed at me :)
"Do you really think D'arcy is better than Jauzion?"
100% absolutely: yes. He's even better technically than BOD right now.
(BOD brings other qualities like leadership, which I wouldn't have attributed to him a couple of years back.)
Have none of you guys been watching the Celtic League and Heineken Cup?
Watching Leinster lazily take opposition teams apart without breaking a sweat is awesome.
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To all the ones who believe that Irish team has been robbed by the French, I would say that a rugby match is 2 times 40 minutes and wether you score in the last or the first minute doesn't make a difference in the end. France had guts to get back to the fight, Ireland was exhausted...
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I agree with some of the chioces you have but England have some key players so does Wales granted Wales have not been on form recently but they are missing quite a few key players and not to mention the outstanding form of Jonny Wilkinson who has had very little game time and still performed at a level any professional would be proud to play at.Italy have been playing terrible and there is no excuse for that the only reason why they beat scotland was because of the mistakes of one or two scotland players.I love good rugby and want to see a bit more english and welsh pride.
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Ayo A,
You are really showing your lack of knowledge of the game and the players positions, It's actually Leamy(not Best)over Chabal, and yes i would pick Denis Leamy everytime. It was Best over Easterby, both Irish players, so what does that tell you. Hard not to be biased really when England haven't performed, who am i going to pick Tom Rees? Have a word! Vincent Clerc has had one moment of flair which cost Ireland the game in Dublin, (also helped by a bit of luck from the bounce and shocking defence)and yes, perhaps my selection would've been somewhat different had Ireland played differently against England, but teams get selected on form, all the back line for Ireland put their hands up that day. Have a look at lineouts won/lost for the championship so far and you'll find that Ire and Fra are pretty equal. Before Last weekend, Ibanez would have figured, but after Best's performance in Dublin (flawless), he's the man. Best already has come up against Mealamu and did absolutely fine last summer. Face it matey, the Irish team will top their group in the autumn when they beat France and Argentina, and will face Scotland who should come second in theirs behind the ABs, and we'll be on our way as England were, down the path of least resistance so Jonny could kick them the whole way to the final. And even if they don't, and they face the ABs, they'll be the best opposition the ABs will have faced in a long time. The All Greens!! You English fans love it!! ;)
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If I was selecting a representitive team from the 6N this is what I would go with ...
1. Marconnet
2. Ibanez
3. Hayes
4. Thion
5. O'Connell
6. Harinordiquay
7. Wallace (C)
8. Leamy
9. Peel
10. O'Gara
11. Clerc
12. D'Arcy
13. O'Driscoll
14. Robinson
15. Patterson
Replacements (for impact) - Castrogiovanni, Flannery, Neil Best, O'Callaghan, Ellis, Wilkinson, Dominici
This is a real "set piece/lineout selection though" up front, and I cannot imagine any team in the world defending against that backline... O'Gara at 10 is exceptional with the placed ball, kicking from hand and releasing his backline. He prefers go-forward ball and a defensive back row - but thats par for the course with a traditional stand-off ...
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I think that this would be the 6 Nations team of the Tournament. These are the only players that i think have help there teams perform at the level at which they have done so, so far in the 6 nations
1.Andrea Lo Cicero
2.Raphael Ibanez
3.Martin Castrogiovanni
4.Paul Vickery
5.Alun Wyn Jones
6 Simon Easterby
7.Mauro Bergamasco
8.Dennis Leamy
9.Alessandro Troncon
10.David Skrela
11.Jason Robinson
12.Rob Dewey
13.Brian O'Driscoll
14.Christophe Dominici
15.Clement Poitrenaud
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1. I think this team was chosen, consciously or not, based not on the last round, but on the AIs AND the 6N so far!
2. To all the tetchy people going on about which team won which match: this kind of team is chosen not on match results but on individual performances, otherwise there would be no point!
3. It should be pointed out that Ireland are the only team who have played the "top" three teams (according to pre-6N predictions) so far. We'll know a lot more about France and especially England after this coming weekend
Let's focus rationally people! Too much emotion clouding the comments
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#76 - two points:
1) where is michalak now? Injured. Otherwise he'd be in the team. We miss him, just like you have missed O'Driscoll from time to time.
2) French players inconsistent? No more than anyone else's players. But keep perpetuating the myth if you want! And what counts is, the TEAM is extremely consistent, almost regardless of selection. Check the results since the 2003 World Cup. Which is the one NH team that HAS been as consistent as Ireland? France. By the testimony of several of your fellow Irish supporters on these blogs, Ireland have failed to be consistent even over 80 minutes of a single game (the one against France) but they tend to choose to believe that the second half display and not the first was the "true Ireland". Odd, that. Rugby is not golf: you don't play the course, you play another team who are trying to stop you performing. And that's what France did in the first half, but not in the second. It's a funny thing, perspective, innit! But maybe we can agree that if you're "slow out of the blocks", or if you concede a last minute try - tough. Points count the same throughout the 80+ minutes. That's reality. Do you really want me to drag up last year's France-Ireland match as a golden example of inconsistency? Do not O'Connnell's performances in this championship answer that description?
3) I agree with you that O'Gara has been better than Skrela in this championship, and I think that ROG is the more talented fly half, full stop. I am pleased with Skrela's performances anyway, but he is efficient rather than brilliant.
More generally: I agree with a couple of posters who have pointed out that French players are currently disadvantaged in these polls because of Laporte's rotation policy. But based on what we've seen so far, I would pick the Irish back row and midfield en bloc:
1 Milloud
2 Ibanez
3 Castrogiovanni
4 Nallet
5 Bortolami
6 Easterby
7 Wallace
8 Leamy
9 Troncon*
10 O'Gara
11 Robinson
12 D'Arcy
13 O'Driscoll
14 Clerc
15 Poitrenaud**
*Or Mignoni. Two very different scrum halves with very different priorities.
**Or Morgan, or Leamy Pleased to see Poitrenaud back, but he hasn't done anything special so far. And neither has any other full back.
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THe six nations is the beginning of the end for England and France. The central system in Ireland will see them becoming the All Greens of the Northern Hemisphere. England have TEN times the playing population of Ireland and are getting pasted by them.I would say that Wilkinson is a supreme player but Vickery(i`ll fight til i`m tired)is a disaster.Julian White should be starting.Based on the beatings Ireland will deliver and my prediction of results the final 15 will look like this
1.Lo Cicero
2.Ibanez
3.Hayes (For Lineout Work and Loose play aswell as holding his own in the scrum)
4.O Connell
5.Bortalami
6.Betsen
7.Wallace (Player of the Tournament)
8.Leamy (Chabal injured, Corry no match,Jones crap)
9.Troncon
10.O Gara(Easy games ahead)
11.Dominci
12.Darcy(being a centre is also about gaining yards)
13.Driscoll
14.Horgan(lots more tries to come)
15.TBD????
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I agree with Ayo A, the Irish are playing well (most of the time), but no credit is given to the French. The best team won, people are still going with their pre-tournament predictions about Ireland going for the slam. The Irish defence was pathetic at the end, which goes to show that at international level you cannot afford to let your guard down.
1. Lo Cicero
2. Ibanez
3. Castrogiovanni
4. O'Connell
5. Bortolami
6. Betsen
7. Bergamasco
8. Chabal
9. Stringer
10. O'Gara
11. Dominici
12. D'Arcy
13. O'Driscoll
14. Strettle
15. Poitrenaud (no outstanding full-back so bias instead)
I rate Lewsey highly, especially as a runner, but he epitomizes 'butter fingers', bad choice at full-back.
Whatever, all the players in these lists are excellent when 'in form', even the English (just teasing).
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can't beleive people are criticising paul o connell. sure he had mediocre games against wales and france but the man is a legend. he is without doubt one of the world's best 2nd rowers and if he was englsih or french he'd stroll into their teams.his presence alone is still enough to intimidate many players and just because he wasnt at 100 % for once in his career people start criticising him. seriously fickle people. he wasn't responsible for the french loss. the man is one of the greatest of our time. i agree he was below par on 2 occassions this year but for god's sake he isn't a robot. to those who criticise,fair enough, but bet you'd still want him on your team.
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I agree with Ayo A, the Irish are playing well (most of the time), but no credit is given to the French. The best team won, people are still going with their pre-tournament predictions about Ireland going for the slam. The Irish defence was pathetic at the end, which goes to show that at international level you cannot afford to let your guard down.
1. Lo Cicero
2. Ibanez
3. Castrogiovanni
4. O'Connell
5. Bortolami
6. Betsen
7. Bergamasco
8. Chabal
9. Stringer
10. O'Gara
11. Dominici
12. D'Arcy
13. O'Driscoll
14. Strettle
15. Poitrenaud (no outstanding full-back so bias instead)
I rate Lewsey highly, especially as a runner, but he epitomizes 'butter fingers', bad choice at full-back.
Whatever, all the players in these lists are excellent when 'in form', even the English (just teasing).
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Since you're two-thirds there already, why don't you just make it the whole Irish team? That would probably be a lot better than your current selection.
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post no. 17 by Richard, what are you talking about, because the bbc is british they should have some british players in, even if they have been pathetic so far, honestly political correctness is going too far. Also you must not have watched the ireland england game, o'gara playing bad, if 8 out of 8 kicks is bad, sour grapes if i ever seen it.
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Look, most people posting are horribly biased to their own teams.
France has been the team of the tournament, ireland a close second.
scotland, the worst team by far, wales a close second, at least wales has some talent.
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100.
you're not wrong
come on england, beat france, if you have the stomach for it.
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1-milloud
2-ibanez
3-de villiers
4-nallet
5-thion
6-bonnaire
7-nyanga
8-chabal
9-elissalde
10-michalak
11-heymans
12-jauzion
13-fritz
14-clerc
15-castaignede
16-marconnet
17-swarzeski
18-pelous
19-harynordoqui
20-skrela
21-dominici
22-poitrenaud
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The Irish pack struggled in Wales, was bullied in the first 40 mins by France and threw away the re-start to cost them the match. Yes they were excellent against England but France have been clinical throughout. Why Chabal and Betsen do not make that team is beyond me.
Ireland may have dismantled the world champions but let us not forget they are not the best team in the world - far from it.
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Wow, well you got a reaction at least!
It's not necessarily the best guide, but another rugby site that shall be nameless is running a fantasy league. Scoring is as follows;
Try = 5 points
Assist = 3 points
Scoring kick = 1 point
Yellow card = -1 point
Red Card = -2 points
Full match = 2 points
Part match = 1 point.
On that scoring system (imperfect though it is) your suggested team would have scored 149 points. However, if you picked the player with the most points in each position you would have 206 points. 149 points wouldn't get you in the current top 200 in the fantasy league.
Of your players, only O'Driscoll, Dominici, O'Gara, Wallace and Ibanez are the top points scorers in their respective positions.
As for the rest of your selections, they fare as follows;
Your FB - Poitrenaud. Only scores 8 points - Patterson has 28 points !!Jason Robinson, Josh Lewsey and Dempsey all do better than your choice, although not all their games have been at FB.
Wings - Dominici has the most points and Horgan doesn't fare too badly but is on par with a number of others.
Centres - O'Driscoll scores well but Jauzion, Robertson, Dewey and J Robinson (Wal) are all in double figures - considerably better than D'Arcy with only 6 points.
Fly Half - O'Gara is top with 35 points. Wilkinson comes next with 29 followed by Skrela (22), Scanavacca (22) and Stephen Jones trails with a poor 18. Can't really give a score for a Scottish fly half until they pick one!!
Scrum Half - Troncon comes in third behind Ellis (14) and Mignoni (12). Dwane Peel is the biggest disappointment here, coming behind Troncon (10), Cusiter and Stringer (both with 9).
Forwards - You only have Wallace and Ibanez who have the highest points total. I'm not going to go through each position (losing the will to live now)but the best scoring forwards are;
Wallace (14), Chabal (12), Ibanez (11), Lund, Nallet, S Taylor and A Popham (all on 10 points).
Now, before the screaming starts, I'm not saying that this kind of crude ranking is the most complete way to assess players contributions. I know it takes no account of defensive contribution or contribution in crucial set pieces such as scrums and line outs. Hence, backs generally get better scores than forwards. However, it's probably not a bad indication of form and consistency over the 3 rounds so far.
On that basis, given that you scored 149 out of a possible 206 (72%) I'd have to say your team isn't bad.
Personally I'd swap Patterson for Poitrenaud, Jauzion for D'Arcy and Ellis for Troncon.
In the forwards you need to change Bortolami and Easterby for any of Lund, Taylor, Popham or Chabal.
The front five is harder to call because of the scoring system but I would definitely keep Ibanez and get Nallet in there as well.
The most disappointing thing for me is that, on form, I could only put Ellis and Lund in from England. And I'm an England fan...
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every-one is entitled to their opinion but NINE-FIFTEEN's comments take the biscuit..... Dewey at 12.. the guy wouldn't make a Lions womens touring team..enough said......Vickery- even the English boys reckons he should be dropped.....buddy- stick to watching hockey
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As an Irishman, I'd say that it does seem somewhat unfair that so few French are in the team. The fact is that they have played just as good if not better rugby then us (we were lucky not to go in at half time against them 15-20 points down), and as such deserve their fair share of players on the team. However there are 2 Irish players that i don't honestly think there can be any argument about; O'Gara and Wallace. Wallace has just been immense so far and surely is in with a shout of player of the 6N (no mean feat for a back row player). The hard yards and work at the breakdown has been excellent & to stand out whilst playing with Leamy and Easterby speaks for itself. O'Gara has been nothing short of supurb, save of about 20 mins against france. Despite what people have posted he has not done anything wrong defensivly (despite nearly always being singled out as a weak link by opposing teams) and has looked creative going forward. His place & positional kicks have been top drawer also.
With regards to O'Connell being put in because of his last performance, the fact is he has underperformed by his own high standards but has been solid and done not much wrong. Its worth remembering that it is far easier to stand out playing ok in a team that is playing pretty rubbish rugby (England-Wilkinson, Wales-Williams, Scotland-Patterson), then in a team playing well.
For what its worth, Here's my XV
1 Milloud
2 Ibanez
3 Castrogiovanni
4 O'Connell
5 Nallett
6 Betsen
7 Wallace
8 Leamy
9 Mignoni
10 O'Gara
11 Dominici
12 D'Arcy
13 BOD
14 Clerc
15 Poitrenaud
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Ah, the Johnny-WIlkinson-tinted glasses brigade are out in force. I am a big fan of Wilko, but even at his best he was not playing as well as O'Gara is at the moment. And, I have been one of O'Gara's biggest critics over the years. His positional kicking is easily the best in the world, his place kicking is second to none (apart from Patterson statistically speaking if you're being pedantic-check it, he has the highest percententage of completed kicks in the past year), his distribution is brilliant and he has learned, eventually how to tackle. Horgan has been one of the most destructive wings in the world for the past couple of years, but can no longer play at centre. I would have Robinson on the other wing.
And for those of you that are bleeting on about there being only 3 out of 6 teams represented, there is no minimum requirement for representation here; if you're good enough, you get in. Apart from Robinson, there is noone from the other teams that have played themselves into this team.
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Some of these comments leave me wondering about the lack of the usual
fair-mindedness of the Irisk supporters. Boys, some of you are displaying the very arrogance that the English are usually (& wrongly) accused of!
Ireland, undoubtedly a very good team, played superbly against England and were by far the better team on the day. I'd be very surprised if that level of performance could ever be repeated - there was something in the air that day that transcended sport and England were overwhelmed. But, even so, a careful analysis of the match video shows that the game turned on a couple of key moments. (Grewcock's sending off and Tait's 22 clearance kick called back behind the point he kicked it just before half time). That's the margin of success and defeat at Test level. 14 points to Ireland and out of sight just before half time. No way back for an English pack that was already under pressure.
The Irish centres, back row and O'Connell at his best are currently the best in the NH;
The Italian/French front row, Bortolami with O'Connell, Mignoni, O'Gara, Robinson, Dominici, probably Morgan at full back would be my team so far. (Although objectively you could not pick that back three to actually play a game - far too small).
As an England supporter I don't have any difficulty agreeing that very few England players deserve to be in the team of the tournament so far; Sunday's game is very important for the development of this England team, and I'm hopeful that one or two players will stand up and be counted.
Ashton needs to continue to pick his best team and stick with it, even if results initially go the wrong way. But one more trouncing and the wheels could come off.
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Wee Man im Irish myself and i have to say ur comments are so biased, this blog is the best team of the six nations so far, rite ok r u listening not pick my favourite Irish players if i was manager. How can Best even be considered he hasnt played (20 mins). Hes a great player but hes done nothing in the six nations cus he hasnt been playing.
Then trimble good player hasnt played much hasnt done anything either, uv named him in place of robinson who was the stand out winger before getting injured.
The mind boggels. Then Rory Best ahead of Ibanez, dont think so.
I mite take a wild guess and say u r located in the north of Ireland.
Be realistic the Irish players who trully deserve der place on performances over two or three matches are:
Wallace
Darcy
O'Gara
O'Driscall
Leamy
O'connell (Maybe)
And To ED Please take ur finger out and watch Wallace Or Darcy next time they play Because how the hell can u leave them out is beyond me, just in case ur watching cricket its rugby the teams been selected for.
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no 95 i didn't mean the whole french team are inconsistent, i meant that their system of choosing who to play at no 10 has been very inconsistent over the last few years. however ireland can be inconsistent, the french game said it all but i still feel that france generally have been inconsistent over the years, as in playing badly when they travel but this year they are much improved. themselves. there isnt much to choose between ireland and france. they are both the best teams in the northern hemisphere and that is a fact. seriously england, it'd be fantastic if ye beat france. i still rate england and think they'll be a force to be reckoned with at the world cup. they weren't that bad against ireland, rather ireland didnt let them play. harry ellis and david strettle impressed me. also poor phil vickey getting a slagging. i think he's better than julian white and has a better temperament.
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109.
Give examples mate.
what english players deserve to be in the team, Wilkinson was boxed out by O'Gara in a one on one, so he's out, and he's the only real contender.
What scottish players deserve to be in there, when compared to their counterparts.
Peel may edge scrumhalf, but not on the last 2-3 performances. AW Jones too, I'd say he edges Bortolami
Nobody edges Darce, nobody, I mean, look at his speed, technique and power, it took 4 men to stop him from going over vs wales, he's only 14 stone, 5 11, you can't take him down, he always makes ground, he's playing inside when he should be playing outside. He's a legend.
We Irish don't overestimate ourselves, I don't think any of us think any normal fans are arrogant, it's the press that make england look bad, and perhaps the press in ireland is going slightly that way
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Is it not a little bit ridiculous discussing a supposed "all-star team" whilst we are only 3 games into the tournament. Granted Wales have been very poor, Scotland seem to have collapsed slightly and England were taken to pieces against Ireland, but the tournament is still reasonably open. If England beat France at Twickers, which is by no means an impossibility the outcome of the tournament may be in doubt. And lets not forget that although everyone was delighted by Italy's first away victory they could still end up with the wooden spoon. The beauty of the Six Nations, which in my opinion puts it above any other international sporting tournament including the World Cup, is that nothing is guaranteed. Upsets can and invaribly do happen. Lets wait a couple more weeks before we start handing out winners medals and "player of the tournament awards" please.
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Bryan the Pirate....
I think your post wasn't meant for me, number must have changed. Although I realise that I didn't make my thoughts about D'Arcy clear, he has been one of the best centres in the world since 2004.....Six Nations Player of the Championship that year. For any of you doubters, just re-watch any of his performaces this year, he makes ground like no other player out there, forwardo r back, is tackling is amazing and his loose play is only equalled by O'Driscoll in terms of backs and I would suggest that there are very few forwards that can match his turnover rate.
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109 seems to have shifted to 110
anyway
Best moment : Italy Thumping Scotland
Best non try: Wilkinson vs scotland, would have been one of the great tries, but wasn't, although the greatest try has a forward pass (barbarians), so there you go
Best try: Horgan vs England. Much like Harinordoquy a couple of years ago vs engerland, the cross field kick produces classic tries
Best Player so far: David Wallace
Worst game: Wales vs Scotland or England vs Scotland.
Best Tackle: BOD on Olly Morgan, slightly illegal, but ouch, great technique, or Mark Jones tackle, I think on Paterson
Best Game: Ireland vs France, you have to admire a team that never gives up. France were immense, Ireland nearly snatched it, what more could you want, except a victory of course.
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106 "Sorry", I am glad that your name indicates your position on your rather ridiculous, crude you called it, assessment method. By your standards, anyone who turns up and happens to score has had a good game, despite the rest of their game. Yes, you did ommitt the minor issue of defence. Rugby is not football and therefore cannot be assessed using such a silly system. It is a very complicated game. By your measure, D'Arcy would score minimally, despite arguably being the best centre in the tournament.
The main thing that makes a mockery of your system is that you would have Ellis, who had one "good" game against a very poor Scottish pack where he had enough time to stop and have a snack if he so felt due to their backrow leaving their boots on the bench (Stringer chewed him up), in your team.
Oh well, enough ranting.....back to work.
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Chris, yeah it changed, bloomimg bbc.
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leamy is a legend! we have waited for a legend rugby player from the premier county and there he is. I can't believe his inclusion was not unanimous!
TIP-PER-AR-RY, TIP-PER-AR-RY, OH-A OH-A OH-A!
TIP-PER-AR-RY, TIP-PER-AR-RY, OH-A OH-A OH-A!
TIP-PER-AR-RY, TIP-PER-AR-RY, OH-A OH-A OH-A!
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That fantasy rugby scoring is rubbish, strings got 5 from the first game, peel got -2, that says it all, not that he had a bad game, but not 7 points better than peel, who was mighty dangerous
It's brutal, poor in comparision to the fa premierships fantasy footy
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wee man,
on the basis of one game in the WHOLE championship you pick best over ibanez, who was instrumental in the irish loss, and played very well in the two games either side?? If you look at most of the other posts on here who is their hooker???? hmmm reality check. You will beat France come the Wc?? You couldnt even beat them at home and you profess a high likelihood of return in the favour this autumn.. and dont give me that "dodgy bounce, bad defence" trifle concerning clerc, because besides that moment of magic, throughout this tournament clerc's defence has been reliable and YOU obviously obviously know what he can do with ball in hand. he's not only scored against the irish you know!! Not trying to pick on you excessively, wee-man but be fair.. THIS IS MEANT TO BE A TEAM OF THE TOURNAMENT SO FAR, NOT TEAM BASED ON WHO JUST HAMMERED ENGLAND!!! pick the team on that basis!!! ps. easterby is a better blindside than best in any case, his work rate and work at the break down is not far off to richie mccaws, he is possibly the best blind-side in the northen hemisphere behind SA's schalk burger and NZ's Jerry collins..
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Firstly, great fun reading these comments. Feels like the guys selecting the teams just posted it and almost stood back as if pulling the pin from a grenade! France i think need more representation but again, a sign of a well balanced team is one where they have played really well as a team with no one shining light. (reality they have had a few that are that little bit better)
Ireland have had some varied stars over the three games which have allowed them to creep onto the team but contrast to France, have not done it consistently until possibly against England. Defeat was hard to take for the Irish against the French. Agree that the match is an 80 minute game - and on balance I think both teams had a shout for victory. (France first 40, Ireland second 40) Fair play to France for snatching it in Croke Park - not an easy thing to do.... i'm hoping we can repay the favor for the WC! There was one comment about the French standing up when they have been beaten and not hiding - great that they do that. At what point do you think that losing in our country's 'womb', not making any excuses to the public and going out to make ammends on the next outing constitutes as 'hiding'?
England have two or three exceptional talents - clearly in a team game you need all 15 firing on the day, I hope for their sake they realize this before the next 80mins is up. Wales, Italy and Scotland still have some work to do for the world cup to contest in their pools but am sure they will turn it around. I think all teams have their work cut out to tackle the AB's - but looking at it from a kiwi perspective, I don't think they will be happy either way with who the runner up in the Ireland/France group is.... not to mention the Pumas!
God I love rugby......
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I think the selection is mostly fair, as an Englishman it pains me to have to admit that we probably don't have any players worthy of selection at the moment!! My only problem with the lineup is actually with O'Driscoll!! Don't get me wrong!! Absolutely world class, but hasn't done much so far in this competition!! On his day he's the best 13 in the world by some margin.. But if you're going on form i dont believe his selection is just.. Maybe question marks over Darcy too!!
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mike,
thats what this whole blog is about!!
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Alot of people bleating about one - eyed Englishmen - no surprise there.
However, reading alot of the Irish posts one can only assume that Ireland have won all their games by 20 points! They seem to forget that against France they should not have been close at half time and only a lack of precision from the french meant they had a prayer in the 2nd half.
Were France clinical? Yes. They needed a try in injury time. Won the restart, spread it wide right, made 30 metres in a couple of phases, spread it left, isolated a forward on a winger and bingo, there goes the GS. Ireland were not, robbed, unlucky or chokers. They lost.
Yes, Laporte has rotated the squad, but the likes of Nallet, Thion, Clerc have had at least one more good game than their irish counterpart
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15. Kevin Morgan
14.Clec
13.Brian O'Driscoll
12.Bergamasgo
11.Shane Williams
10.O'Gara
9.Troncon
8.Popham
7.Wallace
6.Easterby
5.Paul O'Connel
4.Alun Wyn Jones
3.Castroginnavi
2.Ibanez
1.Milloud
Subs
Hayes
De Villiers
Ian Gough
M Williams
Peel
Horgan
Hook
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lads its definately a fair reflection of the way things have gone, the only person i would think has been hard done by is Girvan Dempsey at fullback. with regard to england, they dont have one player that would make the irish starting 15 and that is the reality of it, most of them are not even good enough to internationals, as for playing for the so called world champions well that is a complete joke. wales and scotland have nothing to offer going into a world cup year, and it makes one ask they have all had four years to prepair and they have done absolutely noting, sorry but wales gramd slam has ment noting, as for england they are going to get humiliated in the world cup, and its a pit the irish wont get the chance to do it!
ireland and newzealand the world cup winner its as simple as pick one!!
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1. Castrogiovanni
2. Ibanez (maybe Chuter)
3. Milloud
4. Thion
5. O' Connell
6. Easterby
7. Wallace
8. Leamy (maybe Chabal at 8 or 6)
9. Dwayne Peel
10. Ronan O'gara
11. Sean Lamont
12. Gordan Darcy
13. O' Drisscoll
14. Shane Horgan
15. Poitrenaud Or Morgan or Dempsey
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122.
At 12:11 PM on 06 Mar 2007,
Stu G wrote:
What Darce? question marks, bod?
what, please explain further, people always make claims, no evidence to back up these claims. Examples please.
124.
At 12:15 PM on 06 Mar 2007,
Dan wrote:
Wrong, shaggy was out of position, and clerc spotted the gap, hayes was merely the second line, but the gap was already there. Thats why we missed bod, but thats how it goes, you loose a world class player, these things happen. Thats sport.
The first half against France was poor, lacked passion, we won the second half, same against wales. France are a good team, you can't do that and get away with it, it's a pity, but sure, hopefully we'll learn from it, it was a step up from the first half last year, so improvments have been made
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I gotta say I love this Irish confidence in some of these posts. If they had been supporting a team in white they would be classed as arrogant.
We might just have to play our first team against you Irish this time should our paths meet in the WC.
There is one team in green that may be taken with caution this year(provided their coach actually picks the right combinations) but that team isn't from the emerald isle.
Poitrenaud has been a class act at FB this 6N and to one of the posters who doubted his inclusion in this XV I wonder just what the hell you have been watching.
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Wow didnt think so many Irish would get in. I would agree with the Pack en-bloc but would have Clerc on the wing instead of Dominici. Thats it really
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I'll bet if you combined all the teams selected again, it would nearly be same as the original team selected. Ireland have the best team in the 6 nations (as in the best 15). France have the best panel. O'Connel is the best 2nd row in the world,(nominated as world player of the year). O'Gara is the 2nd best 10 in the world. Graham Henry himself said he would pick O'C, Leamy,BOD, and D'Arcy on the allblacks team if he could. England are still not a good team, they simple dont have the quality. Scot, wales, When italy beat scot easy and are favourites to beat wales that says enough. France have 30 world class players. Ireland will need a huge portion of luck to win the WC as in no injuries.
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I'll bet if you combined all the teams selected again, it would nearly be same as the original team selected. Ireland have the best team in the 6 nations (as in the best 15). France have the best panel. O'Connel is the best 2nd row in the world,(nominated as world player of the year). O'Gara is the 2nd best 10 in the world. Graham Henry himself said he would pick O'C, Leamy,BOD, and D'Arcy on the allblacks team if he could. England are still not a good team, they simple dont have the quality. Scot, wales, When italy beat scot easy and are favourites to beat wales that says enough. France have 30 world class players. Ireland will need a huge portion of luck to win the WC as in no injuries.
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Here's a 15 for you:
John Hayes
Marcus Horan
Rory Best
Donncha
Paul O'Connell
Leamy
Wallace
Easterby
Stringer
O'Gara
O'Driscoll
D'Arcy
Horgan
Hickie
Dempsey
....any complaints? If English players want to be in the team they should start playing better.
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130 Wellington Hurricane.....
Please don't play your full team against us.
Or if so, at least let us have a couple of your reserves.....your North Island used to be part of Ireland after all.
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Christopher (117)
See, I knew when I posted it that someone would bite - although the reaction hasn't been as rabid as I expected.
Thank you for re-iterating all the limitations of the scoring - despite the fact that I pointed them all out in my original post - "doh"
To be honest I wouldn't have bothered responding at all except I didn't understand the comment about my name and read my post again - it's not MY system and I'm not endorsing it - I just thought it would add to the debate, which is what I thought this was all about.
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I disagree in part with the selected line up. There is certainly an anti England bias based on one game at an emotional croke park in which on that day it appeared Ireland would have beaten anyone. Wales have lost every game so far yet have more players nomiated than Scotalnd or England.
1 Lo Cicero (class)
2 Ibanez (stood out in strong pack).
3 Martin Castrogiovanni (part of excllent front row)
4 Lionel Nallet (O'Connels one good game from 3 not enough)
5 Marco Bortalami
6 Serge Betsen (a colossus)
7 Marco Bergamasco (consitent!)
8 Alix Popham (The one welshman to stand out so far)
9 Harry Ellis - Remeber the scotland game !!!! The stand out scrum half in a 3 rounds of games
10 Johnny Wilkinson - After 3 1/2 yrs out the difference against Scotland and Italy and none to shabby against Ireland either.
11 Christophe Dominici (consistent try scorer)
12 Gordon D'arcy (overshadowed O'Driscoll so far)
13 Rob Dewey (an emerging talent)
14 Jason Robinson (back to his best in the first 2 games)
15 Clement Poitrenaud
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Well I may not actually be a true Rugby man but I love the 6Ns and European Cup Games. I don't pretend to know all the rules inside out but can tell a good game from a bad one, and it's fair to say that the best game in each round has involved 1 common thread - Ireland.
Going back a bit but I must point out to John (post 56) that you're right! The 8 Irish men wouldn't make it in a "British" Lions! But they would be included in a British AND IRELAND Lions squad!! Along with most of our current squad. I may be a novice at the old Rugby but I do know who the last Lions Caption was, which is more than can be said for you... It's BOD in case you're pulling out your hair in frustration!
And Sorry (post 104) Yes you are sorry. Sure most XV's are full of bias. They're opinions, not facts, after all. But it you're just going to rhyme of the whole French squad at least cut & paste it so you get it right. Pelous is injure and not even expected to play a part in this year's 6Ns.
I come on these blogs looking for info on the game from people who know it. Best go out at lunch a get a hefty bag of salt so I can take a lot of these posts with a good pinch!
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No 31
Wilkinson would absolutely tear Ronan O'Gara to pieces if he was;
1) Behind a winning pack and
2) Not injured (as he clearly was against Ireland)
Can we now discount supermans performances up to and including the last world cup?
It鈥檚 also worth remembering that if you auntie had balls she鈥檇 be your uncle.
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SAM 48
Ireland France in the WC - Itz a revenge mission, and we're over the pressure of our first game in Croke Park or Choke PArk as it was that day.. In all lightlyhood we will have as much if not more support than the french tha day, as with most Munster matches ever staged in France and also as with Ireland France Soccer World Cup Qualification in Stade Francais.... There will again be another 16th man there tha day and as long as we start the game well(we dont have to score we just have to start without giving the french our usual 10 - 15 point head start) Ireland to top the group and france argentina to fight out second place and a quater final against NZ
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Just to back up my combined 15 with just a single irishman. Ireland were battered by Wales for most of game 1 and beaten at home by france game 2. As massive pre tournament favourites with the bookies they have hardly set the tournament alight bar a period in the england game in which england had 14 players and a try was scored from a terrible decision on Mathew Tait being outside the 22 when he cleared the ball.
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John J, I Agree. Next time France will be the ones under pressure as host nation with the weight of a very expectant and demanding French Rugby Public. I believe we can and will beat them in the WC.
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* 141.
* At 02:02 PM on 06 Mar 2007,
* Howard Pothecary wrote:
what, his front foot was over the line, he jumped up and back, carrying the ball behind the 22.
also, what was the score again in the wales england, and we lost, narrowly to france.
battered by wales, no tries, 9 points, hello, it's called defense. no points, thats, no points for wales, none, even against a poor poor Scotland
yup number 31, what planet are you on, tear him apart, thats 1-0 to rog so far, played once, won once
* 137.
* At 01:21 PM on 06 Mar 2007,
* Howard Pothecary wrote:
Dewey ahead of BOD, that sez it all, rubbish
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142 Bryan the pirate.
Take your irish blinkers off for one moment !
This is a 6 nations team and this 6 nations maybe due to injury BOD as you call him has done precious little !
Rob Dewey has stood out in a much poorer Scotish team and has just been signed by one of the top teams in Ireland so some of your irish counterparts obviously agree with me !
All Wales lacked against Ireland was cutting edge they had much more ball and territory. Had it not been for a gift try in the first 50 secs they could well have won !
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1 Marcus Horan
2 Jerry Flanery
3 John Hayes
4 Donncha O Callaghan
5 Paul O Connell
6 Denis Leamy
7 David Wallace
8 Antony Foley
9 Peter Stringer
10 Ronan O Gara
11 Ian Dowling
12 Trevor Halstead
13 John Kelly
14 Anthony Horgan
15 Shaun Payne
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Antho (138.)i've posted this list cause i saw a lot of post like "irish will revenge for the world cup...even it's in france...france & argentina to fight out second place and a quater final against NZ ... blablabla ... the best players in north emisphere are irish...blablabla" and if you look at this list of 22 players (cause now a match is won by 22 and not only 15 players) you'll see that a lot of key players was missing when we beat you (and the others;-)
key players that show great things since the last world cup like:
-swarzewski (2)
-pelous (5 & cap)
-martin (6)
-nyanga (7)
-elissalde (9)
-michalak (10)
-castaignede (15).
so, saying that we gonna fight out with argentina for the second place, when we've just beat you (and it's like that since 5 years) whitout 7 of our number one players ... our shining lights for patrick (post122)?
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What a joke of a XV!!
Ireland came good against England but not in the first 2 matches. France have rolled throught each team they have come up against. My team would be;
15. Clement Poitrenaud
14. Vincent Clerc
13. Gordan D'arcy
12. Rob Dewey
11. Jason Robinson
10. David Skrela
9. Alesandro Troncon
8. David Leamy
7. David Wallace
6. Alex Popham
5. Alun Wyn Jones
4. Marco Bortalami
3. Martin Castrogiavanni
2. Raphael Ibanez
1. Andrea Lo Cicero
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* 144.
* At 02:46 PM on 06 Mar 2007,
* Howard Pothecary wrote:
wrong,
19 - 9 = 10 points, a charge down try is as good as any try. If england didn't score all those tries and penalties against scotland, scotland could have won, thats how sport works. What are you trying to say here
Dewey stood out in a rubbish scottish team, so doesn't make it into the dream xv, he's not the best outside center, he may be 3rd placed
come on
Ulster brought him in yes, but they would prefer BOD, ahh, theres not much else to say here. Not much in way of a point made by you really
Wales lacked a cutting edge, what else is there to say, no stand out players, bam
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How many cutting edges did you need Howard? We apparently had 3!! And if you take away the "gift" try I believe we still would have won....
Anyway, what gift? The man used his "cutting edge" skills to block it, not knock on, control it and touch down!
And as for you dismissal of the BOD (as we do indeed like to call him) issue, well what can one say?! The French were in a winning position due to the contribution of only one player also - Chabal. Perhaps we wouldn't have driven their maul yards if he were still on the pitch? Perhaps we'd never have gained the lead had he stayed on that day, so immense was his contribution. He would be in my XV anytime ( and that's based on only games.) And the biggest one-man team of them all is England with Jonny at da helm.
So yes, one man (especially when he's the Lions Captain) can make that much difference in a game.
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further argument to allow argentina join the 6 nations (if they don't eventually join the tri-nations): highly likely contenders for key postitions in this all-star XV.
contepomi, pichot and hernandez to name a few. plus, they've a mighty pack which would permit backs to excel and of course members of the pack earning positions in their own right.
recent news: they properly defeated the barbarians over the weekend which consisted of 12 french squad players. no offence to italy but argentina would have had an instant impact on the 6 nations had they been given the nod ahead in lieu and after 7 years may have won titles! honestly, as an irishman, i'm more scared of our clash with the pumas than the french hosts in the WC...
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FAO: Bryan the pirate...
In my opinion, both Darcy and O'Driscoll are yet to show what they are clearly capable of!.. Both are class acts, don't get me wrong (i stipulated this in my last entry!). but neither have really set the competition alight yet have they?.. Both are proven greats, and on form would fit into ANY team.. But this is on current international form.
The question mark regarding Darcy is there as i don't believe that if you were selecting a first xv entirely on six nations form, he would be first choice at 12!?.. The guy is top quality - but i'd currently side with Jauzion. I've always wondered if he'd actually be the player he is if you took away O'Driscoll though.. Having a modern day genius outside you will always benefit how your percieved!!
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Biased against england to right, they have been RUBBISH! i like the team although i would put more frenchies in the front row they are immense in the front five, with o'connell the only non frenchie there. Troncon scrum half nah would have to be peel or ellis. and robinson should figure somewhere in the backs
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I'm not quite sure what Howard Pottyhead (POST 137) has been watching, but its certainly not the same 6N as ther rest of us. In the Wales Ireland game whilst Wales had slightly more territory, they didn't have any more ball then Ireland. Granted Ireland didn't play well that game but it was hardly a battering. It did end up 3 tries to nil after all! Popham has indeed had a decent 6N so far, but in a rubbish side that lost to an even worse Scottish. To say he has been better then Leamy is nonsense. Even more silly is that Bergamasco at 7. Now I rate him highly, but to say he has been playing better then Wallace is rubbish.
You also include Ellis and ask if we'd seen the Scotland game, but then put next to O'Connell that he's only had one good game?!?! Huh?!
As for Dewey ahead of BOD, I can only think that your a wind up merchant. Sure He's an emerging talent and he's got lots of potential, but he hasn't played better then BOD in this 6N. You also are using the fact that one of our top teams (3 out of 4 of our teams would be considered "top") singing him as some kind of vindication of his place in your team. That鈥檚 rubbish. They have bought him a a player with a lot of talent and potential, but his place in Ulster's XV is by no means certain considering the quality they have up in Ravenhill at the moment.
I'm not sure what you've against Ireland (Sour grapes, Jealousy, embarrassment at your own teams woeful performances perhaps?) but I think most if not all would question your sanity in having only 1 Irish player in that team.
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i have reading some sarky comments are about the irish being arrogant. it's not true. for a few years we'd prefer to forget, we were among the most rubbish rugby teams in the world. so now that we have a team and coach to be proud of, we are shouting it from the roof tops. i don't think its fair to call any team arrogant. the englsih won the world cup and were rightly proud of their achievements. also if a tea (ireland, england, france, nz or whatever) feels they are good enough to beat any team, then that is not arrogance, it's competitiveness. something the englsih team could do with at the moment but they'll be back and hopefully against france. irish fans arent arrogant, we are just proud of our team! england fans arent arrogant either. french fans are not arrogant, they just have a good team etc etc.no one should be deemed arrogant just because they are proud of their team.
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1. Andrea Lo Ciciero
2. Raphael Ibanez
3. Martin Castrogiovanni
4. Ian Gough
5. Marco Bortolami
6. Alix Popham
7. David Wallace
8. Denis Leamy
9. Alessandro Troncon
10. David Skrela
11. Christophe Dominici
12. Gordon D'Arcy
13. Gonzalo Canale
14. David Strettle
15. Chris Paterson
O'Connell was outstanding against England and a bit average in the other 2 games. Popham has emerged as Wales leading 6 in a position where they have a lot of depth. Wallace = player of the tournament. Skrela over O'Gara as France beat Ireland. I've gone for Canale at 13 because he's quietly become an incredibly effective player. Breaks tackles, makes yards with ease. (I don't feel BOD has been as impressive as usual, but in my mind he's easily the world's best centre).
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Just a quick note on Darcy.... while I think there are probably too many Irish players, too few French but the just the right amount of Scottish, Welsh and English..... I do think Darcy is the one Irish player that truly deserves his spot. First centre isn't always about setting the game on fire or making huge breaks. Darcy consistently breaks the gain line providing forward momentum for his team, his defense is rock solid and his work at the breakdown is excellent. He's definitely worth his place on the team.
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I find it strange that the people who are saying Horgan and O'Connell shouldn't be there because they have only had 1 good game so far, are those that are vindicating putting in Wilko and Robinson - who both only had one good game so far.
People need to wake up to Robinson. It's preception by reputation - in the last year, against a decent side, he gets the easy tries - watch him when he gets the ball in his own half or mid-field - he'll spend more time puffing his cheeks and going sideways or backwards rather than forwards.
As for the O'Connell bashers - if you offered any 6 Nations team boss the chance to field O'Connell instead of their own lock, they jump at the chance.
Chris Patterson? most overrated player of the tournament - all this 'statistically best Out Half in the world' Well, yes, but if I went on for 1 match and kicked a penalty, then statistically, I'd be the best. It's a joke.
Anyone that wants Lewsey or Lamont on that team needs to waken up too.
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What a nonsense! Surely if someone looked at this without any knowledge of the current table they would have to assume Ireland were top. Clearly France, with only three players in the team, cannot be undefeated going into matchday 4 can they? What is with this current need to inflate the ability of the Irish players and team?
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15. Kevin morgan
14. Dominici
13. brian O'driscoll
12. Tom shanklin
11. Shane williams
10. Wilko/skrela/o'gara
9. Dwayne peel
8. Alix popham
7. Martyn williams
6. Colin charvis
5. Paul o'connel
4. Ian gough
3. Castro Giavani
2. Raphael Ibanez
1. Julian White
Replacements
16. Mefin davies
17. chris horseman
18. Nick easter
19. Martin corry
20. Troncon
21. chris paterson
22. Gareth Thomas
That is personally What i think is the best team, Kevin morgan should play because he is possibly the best openfield runner in the whole championship.
My captain would be brian o'driscoll. Shane williams because he is one of the silkiest runners in the game.
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What about a worst xv of the 6 nations? Here's my choices and why:
1. Perry Freshwater, was taken apart at scrumtime by the Castrogiovanni, then struggled against notoriously poor scrummager John Hayes, hasn't really provided much in the loose. England need for Sheridan or Stevens to be fit again or pray that Tim Payne can step up.
2. Rhys Thomas, not as much of handful in the loose as he has been, lack of accuracy at lineouts is costing Wales. Matthew Rees has looked better.
3. Chris Horsman, supposed ability in the scrum has not been present.
4. Louis Deacon, been completely anonymous in this six nations or whenever he dons the white jersey. Needed to be dropped in favour of Palmer (which thankfully has just happened.)
5. James Hamilton, didn't add the strength and aggression to the pack that Scotland needed, that came when Nathan Hines was brought in. Also takes an age to get around the park.
6. Martin Corry, gives 100% but hasn't looked effective.
7. Magnus Lund, slow to breakdowns, hasn't turned any ball over for England. Doesn't get the ball back quickly to get quick ball or build a good platform to attack on. Hasn't been as effective in the loose as I'd expected him to. Had my vote for worst player on the pitch against Ireland. Incredibly dissapointing.
8. Elvis Vermeulen, the blonde Chabal? Doesn't seem to carry the ball with much power. Hasn't impressed at all.
9. Chris Cusiter, one of my favourite scrumhalfs in world rugby. But played a shocker against Italy. All the 6 nations scrumhalfs have looked impressive bar Cusiter, Perry and Ellis (after his great display against Scotland).
10. Phil Godman, while his creativity on and with the ball is good and definetly beats watching Dan Parks for 80 minutes. His kicking has been dire.
11. Chris Czekaj, haven't seen his pace being put to much use. Looked a bit caught out defensively and made ill-advised pass to Stephen Jones for Ireland's first try.
12. Mike Tindall, England's new style of trying to get the ball wide to the backs doesn't suit Tindall's style of crash and bash. He doesn't look effective at all.
13. Marcus Di Rollo, has not looked world class at all ever.
14. Sean Lamont, my pick for player of the tournament last year. Is making mistakes he shouldn't be and hasn't looked effective with ball in hand.
15. Hugo Southwell. Like Di Rollo, he's never looked up to it at international level. If Paterson doesn't get moved to 10, he should get moved to 15 with Rory Lamont or Nikki Walker coming in at 14.
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I agree with alot of posts that claim this team has been picked based on the last round which explains all the irish seeing as they were supreme and yes it was sweet. But anyway back to who deserves it over the 3 games. O'connell was weak in the first 2, horgan was weak against france. O'driscoll was excellent against wales, injured against france and decent against england but not spectacular. Therefore here is my team.
1. Milloud
2. Ibanez
3. Castrogiovanni
4. Nallet
5. Bortolami
6. Leamy
7. Wallace
8. Chabal
9. Peel
10. O'Gara
11. Dominici
12. D'Arcy
13. Jauzion
14. Clerc
15. Dempsey
I know i'm cheating with leamy at 6 but i think he's been better than easterby and chabal's been better than betsen. Dominici just edges robinson, and dempsey is obvious for me. He's been transformed this season. As for Chris paterson, he's a great kicker and has good pace but he's very lightweight and just not a good enough finisher in my opinion, would he even be on scotland were it not for his place kicking?
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Ayo A, (121)
I have been waiting on your response, i'm sorry my mistake, have a little look at post 134 and Jim O'Irish's comments, perhaps i made a few mistakes in my line up. His is much better!! And he has put Rory Best at hooker, so the majority has picked Ibanez, big deal!! Reality Check will come in the autumn, when Ireland turn over France in the stade, the 2 top teams in the NH going at it. I'll be there, will you Ayo A? On your last post, you showed lack of knowledge in the difference between No6 and No8, and this time you think Simon Easterby is the best blind side in the NH (behind Burger and Collins). A) Burger and Collins play in the SH, (clue)when you look at the map of the world, the NH is the one above the SH. Don't worry Ayo A, we'll all help you out!?! B)Either your English or your Geography needs some serious work.
Don't worry matey, as you bit on the last wind up, I'm totally expecting you to bite on this one too. Enjoy little fishy!!
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I wouldn't have picked O'Gara over Skrela @ no.10.
Skrela is an outstanding player and we 'aint seen nothing yet'.
He'll be the player to watch this weekend.
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I think there are alot of things to consider here and while everyone leaving a comment may be filled with national pride and outraged by the original XV suggested consisting of 3 nations I think you need to remain objective.
The fact England are struggling as a team doesn't help the suggestion that any of their players should be in, I'm not really sure why anyone is suggesting Phil Vickery, the English scrum buckled against Ireland and apart from that I haven't seen anything outstanding from him. Robinson is the most valid case for selection but the fact he didn't play in the Ireland game harms his chances. As for Wilkinson anyone who says Paterson shouldn't make the team just cause he can kick should consider this argument just as valid for why Wilkinson shouldn't be selected apart from an in touch try against Scotland has he done much else? Please don't give me all this he hasn't played for ages stuff the FACT of the matter is he hasn't been the best fly half in the tournament which completely justifies the choice of Skrela or O'Gara.
Also Chabal is an obvious choice for the team and Poppum has been very good especially in terms of making a mark on the international stage. The issue of Chris Paterson is intersting as a winger he has no right to this XV or even the bench however if you don't have a great kicker then he is a solid option. I won't leave my own XV as I agree with alot of what has been said however I am alarmed to see some people putting Rob Dewey at 13... as "creative" as you make think you are Dewey is not a 13 nor is he even close to a starting place in a 6 nations all star team. Hope people find this interesting and if you reply to it I'll try and check back!
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wee-man,
in reference to our petty dig at my lack of geographical knowledge, i was actually pointing out that easterby is the best in th NH, BUT still behind the two SH blindsides aforementioned, perhaps you didnt see their country of origins written in short hand?!?!?! additionally i was using them as an example in terms of ranking blindsides generally and also pointing out your stupidity fot placing a blindside that doesnt even start above easterby in the line-up.. easterby i can accept because i rate him very highly, the best in his position in the NH!!!! Ill leave ur in ur delusions to grandeur concerning Best over Ibanez, everyonelse seems to have.. As for post 134, well, i dont need to comment,ur not winding me up... i know how high and mighty countries get when their team performs, and ill give you the benefit ofthe doubt because the english were less gracious than the irish in general, except you.. The baits gotta be bigger than an all irish team.. the french are winning this tournament incase you didnt realise..!? :)
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wee-man,
in reference to our petty dig at my lack of geographical knowledge, i was actually pointing out that easterby is the best in th NH, BUT still behind the two SH blindsides aforementioned, perhaps you didnt see their country of origins written in short hand?!?!?! additionally i was using them as an example in terms of ranking blindsides generally and also pointing out your stupidity fot placing a blindside that doesnt even start above easterby in the line-up.. easterby i can accept because i rate him very highly, the best in his position in the NH!!!! Ill leave ur in ur delusions to grandeur concerning Best over Ibanez, everyonelse seems to have.. As for post 134, well, i dont need to comment,ur not winding me up... i know how high and mighty countries get when their team performs, and ill give you the benefit ofthe doubt because the english were less gracious than the irish in general, except you.. The baits gotta be bigger than an all irish team.. the french are winning this tournament incase you didnt realise..!? :)
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doubt anyone's still reading this, but here's my two cents...
1)Lo Cicero - seems to be the consensus here.
2)Ibanez - By a mile. offers a solid line-out and more in the loose than any other hooker thus far.
3)Castrogiovanni - Italy's scrum is miles better than anyone else's. there's a reason for that...
4)O' Connell - only one great game, but what a game.
5)Bortolami - Italy could really have pushed England had he not been sin-binned. Offers unriveled stability and leadership.
6)Poppham. the only welsh player to have really impressed. edges out Easterby.
7)Wallace - No contest. has excelled himself
8)Leamy. More consistent than Chabal
9)Troncon. Edges past Mignoni, but only just.
10)O' Gara. Just ahead of Skrela
11)Dominici. There is no 11 in NH rugby who has been anywhere near this bloke for some time now.
12)D'Arcy. That pick up for Irelands first try against england would merit it alone, but has been consistently better than Jauzion or Dewey
13)O' Driscoll. No explanation required
14)Clerc. Best 14 around. Horgan is good, but Clerc set up one try vs Ireland, scored the other, and has been faultless in other games
15)Robinson. Lack of impression from 15s so far so Robinson gets the nod.
by the way, I'm French
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Ayo A (165),
Oh, Oh, I think i'm getting a bite, YES! He's on. Honestly mate, it's like shooting fish in a barrel. i Love it, and everyone can read it. I think we should change your name from Ayo A to NEMO. Laters little fishy!!
The future's green!
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are people still saying skrela is better than o gara? that's a load of rubbish. i'm not saying he's not a good player but who has been the number 1 northern hemisphere fly half over the last 4/5 years. o gara! o gara played better than skrela during the france game. skrela is good but missed a few vital kicks whereas although ireland lost, ronan's kicking was much better. he's fantastic and i would always have ronan as the 1st choice fly half. skrela is no doubt a good player but come on. even most french people would admit ronan is the complete article.
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Basically everyone will choose a few players from their home country because you are always going to be slightly bias. I think
1.Marcus Horan
2.Raphael Ibanez
3.Martin Castrogiovanni(maybe)
4.Jerome Thion
5.Donnacha O'Callaghan
6. Simon Taylor
7.Mauro Bergamasco
8.Sebastian Chabal
9.Harry Ellis
10. Ronan O'Gara
11.Cristophe Dominici
12.Yannick Jauzion
13.Brian O'Driscoll
14.Jason Robinson
15.Chris Paterson(for his goal kicking expertise I know i have o gara but im putting in players who have been playing well).
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Lets face it no 6 nations team is going to come near to winning the World Cup which is a real shame. All the home nations seem to have taken a step back especially the Welsh it's so sad I was hoping for a welsh resurgence back to the heady days of the likes of JPR and JJ Willams, Gareth Edwards, John Dawes etc etc and I'm English. I so want the home nations to be competative, which I think means a radical shake up of the premiership etc, our players play far to much which is why we lack sharpness on the pitch.
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there are some ridiculous comments here, some people clearly need to learn about the sport! so here's my best xv...
1.Lo Cicero
2.Ibanez
3.Castrogiovanni
4.Nallet
5.Alun Wyn Jones
6.Easterby
7.Wallace
8.Leamey
9.Mignoni
10.Skrela
11.Robinson
12.D'Arcy
13.Di Rollo (just kidding- O'Driscoll)
14.dominici
15.kevin morgan
Replacements
Milloud, Rory Best, Bortalami, Popham,
Boss(a super-sub), O'Gara, Jauzion
if it makes any difference to your opinion of my team, i'm scottish. sometimes you've just got to hold your hands up and admitt we're not good enough!
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there are some ridiculous comments here, some people clearly need to learn about the sport! so here's my best xv...
1.Lo Cicero
2.Ibanez
3.Castrogiovanni
4.Nallet
5.Alun Wyn Jones
6.Easterby
7.Wallace
8.Leamey
9.Mignoni
10.Skrela
11.Robinson
12.D'Arcy
13.Di Rollo (just kidding- O'Driscoll)
14.dominici
15.kevin morgan
Replacements
Milloud, Rory Best, Bortalami, Popham,
Boss(a super-sub), O'Gara, Jauzion
if it makes any difference to your opinion of my team, i'm scottish. sometimes you've just got to hold your hands up and admitt we're not good enough!
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WHAT HAS PEEL DONE TO BE PUT IN FRONT OF ELLIS?! He has had a very average tournament so far, whilst Ellis has had an outstanding game, followed by two solid ones. I can't stand this natural bias towards Peel.
1. Marconnet
2. Ibanez
3. Castrogiovanni
4. Alun Wyn Jones
5. Bortolami
6. Leamy
7. Wallace
8. Chabal (unlucky Parisse)
9. Ellis/ Mignioni
10. O'Gara
11. Robinson (unlucky Horgan)
12. D'Arcy (unlucky Jauzion)
13. O'Driscoll
14. Dominici
15. Poitrenoud (unlucky Paterson)
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WHAT HAS PEEL DONE TO BE PUT IN FRONT OF ELLIS?! He has had a very average tournament so far, whilst Ellis has had an outstanding game, followed by two solid ones. I can't stand this natural bias towards Peel.
1. Marconnet
2. Ibanez
3. Castrogiovanni
4. Alun Wyn Jones
5. Bortolami
6. Leamy
7. Wallace
8. Chabal (unlucky Parisse)
9. Ellis/ Mignioni
10. O'Gara
11. Robinson (unlucky Horgan)
12. D'Arcy (unlucky Jauzion)
13. O'Driscoll
14. Dominici
15. Poitrenoud (unlucky Paterson)
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WHAT HAS PEEL DONE TO BE PUT IN FRONT OF ELLIS?! He has had a very average tournament so far, whilst Ellis has had an outstanding game, followed by two solid ones. I can't stand this natural bias towards Peel.
1. Marconnet
2. Ibanez
3. Castrogiovanni
4. Alun Wyn Jones
5. Bortolami
6. Leamy
7. Wallace
8. Chabal (unlucky Parisse)
9. Ellis/ Mignioni
10. O'Gara
11. Robinson (unlucky Horgan)
12. D'Arcy (unlucky Jauzion)
13. O'Driscoll
14. Dominici
15. Poitrenoud (unlucky Paterson)
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Thanks for all your responses to our 'mid-tournament' Six Nations XV.
It's always a thorny topic, and much of the subsequent debate seems to be around whether we're picking a team based on who we think are the best players in that position, or the players we feel have played the best in that position so far. I've tended towards the latter in my XV - I picked Welshman Alan Wyn Jones at lock, for example, even though he didn't make it into the combined XV from myself, Nick Mullins, Andrew Cotter, Jim Stokes and Sean Davies. And if you ask me who's the best scrum-half in the Six Nations, I'd say Dwayne Peel, but Alessandro Troncon has made the biggest impression in that position so far. It's true we can be swayed slightly be our most recent memory, and Ireland thrashing England was the stand-out match of the tournament so far. It will be interesting to re-visit the subject at the end of the tournament, and see if eight or nine Irishman still make the final XV!
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Thanks for all your responses to our 'mid-tournament' Six Nations XV.
It's always a thorny topic, and much of the subsequent debate seems to be around whether we're picking a team based on who we think are the best players in that position, or the players we feel have played the best in that position so far. I've tended towards the latter in my XV - I picked Welshman Alan Wyn Jones at lock, for example, even though he didn't make it into the combined XV from myself, Nick Mullins, Andrew Cotter, Jim Stokes and Sean Davies. And if you ask me who's the best scrum-half in the Six Nations, I'd say Dwayne Peel, but Alessandro Troncon has made the biggest impression in that position so far. It's true we can be swayed slightly be our most recent memory, and Ireland thrashing England was the stand-out match of the tournament so far. It will be interesting to re-visit the subject at the end of the tournament, and see if eight or nine Irishman still make the final XV!
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Thanks for all your responses to our 'mid-tournament' Six Nations XV.
It's always a thorny topic, and much of the subsequent debate seems to be around whether we're picking a team based on who we think are the best players in that position, or the players we feel have played the best in that position so far. I've tended towards the latter in my XV - I picked Welshman Alan Wyn Jones at lock, for example, even though he didn't make it into the combined XV from myself, Nick Mullins, Andrew Cotter, Jim Stokes and Sean Davies. And if you ask me who's the best scrum-half in the Six Nations, I'd say Dwayne Peel, but Alessandro Troncon has made the biggest impression in that position so far. It's true we can be swayed slightly be our most recent memory, and Ireland thrashing England was the stand-out match of the tournament so far. It will be interesting to re-visit the subject at the end of the tournament, and see if eight or nine Irishman still make the final XV!
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how about this for a six nations lemon's xv
15 balshaw (ashton's love child?)
14 strettle (horgan's punchbag)
13 di rollo (italian reject)
12 farrell (tortoise)
11 paterson (take the 3 pointers!)
10 godman (luckily for jones)
9 cusiter (did he really pass that?
8 me (can't think of a bad 6n one)
7 brown (my mum's more of a 7)
6 taylor (penalty gifter)
5 grewcock (yellows a speciality)
4 sidoli (way out of depth)
3 welsh hair bear (duncan)
2 hall (lightweight)
1 welsh hair bear (adam)
hon capt o'connell (think line out!)
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WHAT HAS PEEL DONE TO BE PUT IN FRONT OF ELLIS?! He has had a very average tournament so far, whilst Ellis has had an outstanding game, followed by two solid ones. I can't stand this natural bias towards Peel.
1. Marconnet
2. Ibanez
3. Castrogiovanni
4. Alun Wyn Jones
5. Bortolami
6. Leamy
7. Wallace
8. Chabal (unlucky Parisse)
9. Ellis/ Mignioni
10. O'Gara
11. Robinson (unlucky Horgan)
12. D'Arcy (unlucky Jauzion)
13. O'Driscoll
14. Dominici
15. Poitrenoud (unlucky Paterson)
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WHY ISNT CHARVIS IN THE STARTING LINEUP FOR WALES? IM AN OSPREY SUPPORTER BUT I THINK HE IS MUCH BETTER THAN RYAN JONES ON FORM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Booby, how can the selections be sexist? If you know something we don't please enlighten! It's also technically possible for one set of players to have been better than all the others and I think providing a range of three shows how good the tournaments been. Still think you guys are not rating Kevin Morgan highly enough and the Toulouse Wing arguably proved against Ireland alone that he should be there instead of Horgan
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i would tend to agree with 178, but have ryan there on the bench. he would certanly be an impact player to put on after 40mins and smash any poor english men in his way. i would also bring in parker if match fit and have hook on the bench, he again.. what an impact he should be. have jonesy kick them back all 1st half then have young hook dance his way around um...and possibly do this with alfie..have him on first half to smash ball up through middle then swap him with kevin or lee and let them lads dance through the english flat defence..
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Bortalami - why? Been yellow carded and hasn't been able to lift Italy unlike Troncon who has been the player of the tournament.
Ellis great going forward but that is never a test for a scrum half. Peel always more of a danger as Cusiter.
Wilkinson better than O'Gara.
Poitrinaud awful in two games then awesome against Wales - let's face it not difficult.
Horgon - did he turn up against France? Played a half decent match against a u21 but was outpaced by him - has to be Robinson.
Patterson????
Watch the games again.......
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How can any 6N team be without Alessandro Troncon? He has been the fire in Italy's hearts despite only picking up one win, and so far he's got to be a contender for player of the tournament.
Also, just because the Welsh, English or Scots haven't been amazing shouldn't mean they're all omitted from the Irish... sorry, fantasy XV.
Finally, i cannot beleive that people are still putting Wilkinson in their top fifteen, jeez, you english are so desperate for a hero you'll pick one who isn't even match fit! O'G has been the best and not even your blind patriotism can save your precious jonny now. Btw i threw a paperclip at his hamstring and now he's injured. what a surprise
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Sorry Bryn Palmer but its Alun Wyn Jones not Alan Wyn Jones!
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To 176: Ellis has had one good game against Scotland what else has he done?Come on France on Sunday!!!!!!!!!!
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1.lo cicero
2.ibanez
3.castrogiovanni
4.o,connell
5.bortolami
6.easterby
7.wallace
8.chabal
9.troncon
10.skrela
11.robinson
12.hook
13.o'driscoll
14.clerc
15.poitrenaud
5french, 4irish, 4italiens, 1english, 1welsh
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I belive it is fair to insert players of all teams: independently they are winnig and loser in this RBS 6N. In every team there are very good players. The best team for me is this:
1 A. LO CICERO (sub. J.White)
2 R. IBANEZ (sub Best)
3) P. VICKERY or J. EYES (is very difficult to choose,! I鈥檓 Italian, but Castrogiovanni is still too much young)
4) P. O鈥機ONNEL (He Is a Great Warrior!) (sub Dellap猫)
5) I. GOUGHT ( sub Thion or Harinordoqui)
6) CHABAL (sub Popham)
7) Mauro BERGAMASCO ( sub M. Williams)
8) M. CORRY (he have great coraugeous!) (sub Parisse,- is a talent but he is still too mach young)
9) A TRONCON (capt.- in Italy we call him friendly 鈥渢he centurion of the italian pack鈥) (sub Cusiter)
10 WILKINSON or O鈥橤ARA(is very difficult to choose! But onestly Wilkinson is clever) (sub.S. Jones)
11) C. DOMINICI (sub )Lamont
12) D鈥橝RCY (sub TINDALL) ( they are good Players!)
13) S. HORGAN (I see Horgan in this role !) (sub Traille)
14) J ROBINSON (sub Shane Williams)
15) C. PATTERSON (he is an intelligent player, but the best in this role is Gareth THOMAS)
If you want know the players will stay at last in this 鈥渓eader team鈥, for constancy performance, I Think: Lo Cicero, Ibanez, Vickery or Eyes, O鈥機onnell, Troncon, Dominici, Gought, Horgan, Robinson,Thion, Betsen and others I don't Know now.
The best 鈥淩BS 6N 2007 player鈥 will be O鈥機onnel or Troncon.
Grazie (thank you) 大象传媒. Pierpaolo (PeterPaul)
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MY CURRENT LIONS SQUAD ON 6 NATIONS SO FAR:-
1. HORAN (JENKINS)
2. R. BEST (CHUTER)
3. HAYES (VICKERY)
4. O'CALLAGHAN (HINES)
5. O'CONNELL (MURRAY)
6. EASTERBY (WORSLEY)
7. WALLACE (WILLIAMS)
8. LEAMY (TAYLOR)
9. STRINGER (ELLIS)
10. WILKINSON (O'GARA)
11. HICKIE (ROBINSON)
12. D'ARCY (DEWEY)
13. O'DRISCOLL (SHANKLIN)
14. HORGAN (LAMONT)
15. DEMPSEY (PATERSON
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pierpaolo what ever ur name is ur team is a joke. I think uve lost ur marbles what tournament are you watching
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Vincent Clerc should be in there
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Vincent Clerc should be in there
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Bryan the pirate:
"Scotland are the worst team by far"
Did you watch the game against Wales Bryan? How are the Welsh team better than Scotland. I admit our performance against a good Italian team was nothing but ridiculous but I don't believe we are the worst team in the 6N.
Wales have won none of their games & lie at the bottom of the table so that would suggest that they are the worst team at the moment. They will have a hard job against Italy & I think the Italians could give them some problems.
My 15 would be:
1. Lo Cicero
2. Ibanez
3. castrogiovanni
4. O'Connel
5. Bortolami
6. Easterby or Popham
7. Wallace or Bergamasco
8. Leamy or Taylor
9. Peel or Troncon
10. Skrela or O'Gara
11. Dominici
12. Jauzion or D'Arcy
13. O'Driscoll
14. Horgan or Lamont
15. Poitrenaud
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15. Kevin Morgan- consistantly a threat in attack and sloid in defence
14. Dominici- was tempted by Strettle but he's only played twice
13. O'Driscoll- despite a relatively quite 6 nations, he still grafts and is always a threat
12. D'Arcy
11. Robinson
10. Skrela- find of the tournament
9. Ellis
1. Lo Cicero
2. Ibanez- great ball carrier and a leader
3. Castrogiovanni
4. Nallet- underrated
5. Bortalami
6. Parisse- i know he's an 8, but you can't leave out Leamy
7. Wallace
8. Leamy
Bench; Milloud, R. Best, O'Connell, Easterby, Peel, Patterson, Jauzion.
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What is this manic blind obsession with Dwayne Peel? Is everyone watching rugby matches in some parallel universe or something?
He's thoroughly mediocre! Stringer, Cussiter, Blair...ok, let's face it, every other scrum half in the 6 nations is better than Peel.
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