大象传媒

Why wouldn't Gordon Brown just take this idea and use it himself to raise a bit of extra revenue? After all, the Tories couldn't very well oppose it now they have put it forward themselves.

It would have been worth you pointing out that for many of these 'super-rich' people, 拢25k per year may be a tiny level of taxation... in millionaire-income cases perhaps equivalent to 1 or 2% taxation on foreign earnings... and that the 'competitor economies' you mention are likely to tax them more highly than that.

You also should more explicitly recognise that the 'wealth-generating skills' are not simply brought to this country as they could be to any, but exist here because London is a financial/business/legal crossroads on the world map where people can do business in the English language.

Robert Peston says "Once upon a time, the Conservative party revered those wealthy individuals who live in the UK but claim non-domicile status and pay precious little tax here. In fact, the party raised more than a bob or three in donations from these jet-setting plutocrats, a few of whom - by sheer chance - ended up with honours"

So it was only the previous Coservative Government(s) who did 'cash for honours' ??!!!

No mention about the current Labour Government for the last 10 years 'sucking up' to the super rich - a few whom - by sheer chance - ended up with honours or prefential treatment !!
'Cash for honours' or 'Cash for preferential treatment' has been going on for years/centuries in one form or another - not exclusively to just one political party.

The Conservatives seem to be utterly clueless. Nice but dim springs to mind.

They either have no idea how money works or they're completely unable to criticise Gordon for his policies because they plan to follow similar ones.

The money supply is increasing at 14% a year... Any tax cuts are completely irrelevant compared to that fact. In just 6 years, the value of someone's wage packet will have almost halved, you'd better get your wealth into some other commodity. Since Gordon came to power and made the Bank of England independent the wealth of the average person in the UK has gone into free fall.

An average house at 拢210k is now nine times the average salary at 拢23k. If you managed to get off this downward elevator good for you. This is at the same time sending the wealth of the super rich into the stratosphere relative to the rest of us.

Why are they not challenging Gordon on the effect of this inflation?

Are the Liberal Democrats and Conservatives truly this incompetent or are they simply as cynical as Gordon?

The sarcasm of the opening sentence confirms once again that the 大象传媒 tends to take a left-wing point of view (the other day another 大象传媒 writer called opponents of IHT "hysterical"). Does the 大象传媒 even try to avoid left-wing bias, or is it so confident it will continue to get away with it that it just doesn't care any more?

Pojnt 4....

Its figures like these that seem to bypass most people and are a clear indication that this country is heading for recession. Any elected govenment needs to state how they will limit liability of an event that will happen. Who ever gets into power at the next election is going to have a tough time. Camern should hand it to gordon on a plate and let him win... then watch him as he is beaten by the press for dragging the country down, through no real policy fault of his own.... if the blues were in we'd be in the same financial situation....

Colin Smith

But Gordo has told the BoE that house price inflation isn't real inflation so it can't be taken into account when setting interest rates..

Sorry -what I meant was that the City told Gordo to tell the BoE that otherwise their mortgage portfolios would begin looking a bit sad.

As to this annual 拢25k pay off then the sensible super rich will already be asking themselves whether they can get a discount if they pay ten years worth up front.

Didn't David Cameron say a year ago that every new Tory policy would be tested by its effect on the poorest? How many poor people stand to inherit half a million quid in the next Parliament?

Is this blog hitting new lows?

"Taxes paid by the dead"?

Whatever happened to impartiality?

I've always favoured a flat 20% income tax rate. Everyone pays it, no fiddles, no allowances, no arguments and everyone knows where they stand.
It would save filling in those damned Self assessment forms too!
Of course Gordons' tax-lawyer and accountant friends wouldn't like it, and we wouldn't be paying for so many inland revenue numbercrunchers, but.....

Personally, the most interesting tory tax cut proposal is the elimination of stamp duty for first time homebuyers on any property below 拢250,000.
I know this stamp duty tax cut can have a housing inflation side effect which could raise average house prices above 拢250,000 but I still like it.

The fact that the Tories are willing to abolish the inheritance tax is enough for me.
I was always left wing (easy to be growing up under Thatcher), but this Labour Government is nothing but a right wing US protectorate nowadays. Populated by PC idiots who would laugh at me because of my (upperclass) name, but have no hesitation in wasting billions of the publics money on the war in Iraq or sucking up to the non dom rich at any opportunity. How else to do you explain why nothing is still being done about these Russian billionaires whose internal squabbles have led to several murders and certain areas of London now glowing in the dark?
Despite the soundings of Labour to be so "down and cool with the 'people'" (can't wait to see Gordon on a skateboard), they are very quick to let the super-rich off the hook, while at the same time hammering the British that work to make something of themselves, and handing out benefits galore to just about any refugee that washes up on our shores.
Yep, it's time for a 'party of the people'. I just never thought it would be the Conservatives.

I work in the City, however I was not born in the UK, I don't own a property in the UK, I have never lived here for more than 3 years at a time and I do not intend remaining here permanently. Hence I am non-domiciled under UK tax law. I pay full tax on my salary and bonus, as well as tax on my investments in the UK. Where I don't pay UK tax is on those offshore assets that existed before I ever came to the UK, and which I have no intention of every bringing into the UK. To me this is a fair situation, I already pay a ridiculous amount of tax towards many services that I will never take advantage of, the money was never earnt in the UK and will never be spent in the UK.

I do believe that there are significantly numbers of people that use non-domiciled status to avoid tax on their normal income and I agree that something needs to be done about this. However, a blanket 拢25 000 charge for anyone that is non-dom doesn't really hurt the super-rich, however for someone like me who saves a couple of thousand pounds a year in tax, it would mean I would have to give up my non-dom status. I would then have little incentive to keep any investments onshore in the UK and there would be no reason to keep any cash in the UK banking system.

I think the proposal does not address the true propblem, which is that UK source income is being converted into offshore income through various schemes in order to take advantage of non-dom status. It certainly doesn't really do that much to the rich donors, who have generously supported both labour and the conservatives!

Any idea how much UK tax is paid by "non doms" and would be lost should they leave?

It is only the foreign income we are not getting the tax on.

If you exclude the out and out tax avoiders a lot of this tax would be covered by Double Tax Treaties anyway if the individuals became UK Dom and so no payments due in the UK.

Just more tinkering with an ancient tax system when what we need is a total (simple) rewrite.

Well said Nic

These guys (Lab and Con) have no idea how the nuts and bolts of Tax works in the real world.

A lot of Non Dom tax would be covered by Double Tax treaties anyway. No net take to the UK.

People should pay the right tax not just some arbritrary figure because we cannot be bothered to upset them.

All that will happen is if I can save over 拢25k I will go Non Dom otherwise I will be UK Dom or leave all together.

Sounds like a 拢25k golden ticket for the super rich.

inheritance tax is a tax paid by the living on wealth they inherit from the dead.

it is not paid by the dead.

'Flee these shores' ?? where exactly are they going to go? To France to pay the wealth tax (also calculated on an annual basis)?

It's great news that the Tories have finally got you and Gordon on the run as Gordon oes't understand enough about where else wealth could be created to understand that these people could be taxed a lot and suffer no material loss of living standard.

Inheritance tax is robbery of money that is already taxed and now is taxed again when transferred. typoical labour stealth tax. all self respecing pensioners with any knid of savings who ae planing to pass soem on to the children shoul be rejoicing at this proposal as it puts Flash Gordon seriously on the back foot.

The Tory policy of abolishing stamp duty for first time buyers seems counter to the whole concept of capitalism - that of allowing market forces - supply and demand - to dictate the price of good and services.

By making it easier for new home buyers to get on the housing ladder, surely they intend to artificially prop up the housing market and postpone whatever inevitable price fall should occur naturally as a result of falling demand.

Who is this helping in the long term?

I can only comment to agree with Antonio and Oliver Chettle above.........you would never say anything so dismissive and sarcastic about New Labour despite their appalling record the last few years (try Jack Straw and right to defend yourself as just one volte face let off the hook among dozens).

The 大象传媒 seem to be so fawning to New Labour and against any of it's critics left or right it really is hard to tell the difference.........
the shame is we all have no choice but to pay for it.

I dont have a strong view on Ex Non Doms. It seems to me that people who have made 100's of millions, somewhere else in the world and chose to live here, are not a drain on the NHS or claim child allowance or get a bus pass when 60 etcetc. Their prescence to me would seem a positive. I assume they pay top price to builders/decorators at Restaurants to Maids, Chauffeurs, florists .... I wish one would buy a House around the corner from me.. maybe that would add 20 or 30 thousand to my place. The UK I assume must have a standing in the world of Stability, Democracy (Just..) and be a civilised place to live in a world of turmoil, for very rich people to want to be here. I am sure they pay tax in an indirect way that does not detract or hurt UK Tax Payers. They ask for nothing. But the Politicians do. The Tories have lost their way... Why do they want to raise Taxes in order to Cut Stamp and IHT ? Dont Government already raise too much tax... Spend it wisely, review, realocate. Get on the voters wavelenght.

Nice to see the tories following the Liberal Democrats yet again.

Nic is quite correct. There are so many "chippy" people who post things on this board..... purely "politics of envy"

The City of London is a success and part of the reason is that it attracts talent from all around the world. Even Gordon Brown understands this.

I am neither rich/non-dom nor work in the city but I do understand how stupid politicians (who often have never had a real job) can destroy industries by badly thought out interventionist policies (eg SOX in the US which led to many listed companies leaving the US and listing in London.

Let's not shoot ourselves in the foot!

Who said politics is boring ? I turned on the radio today to hear that George Osborne proposes to tax
"condoms". WHAT !! Are the Tories so desperate for Catholic votes that they now want to tax contraception ?
The news was repeated later, and I now understand that Osborne wants to tax "non-doms". Just goes to show how important good enunciation is. Politics IS boring after all !!

A poll on another site asks people whether they are in favour of raising the IHT threshold to 拢1m, and not surprisingly the result is something like 76/24 in favour.

But if (big 'if') there is really an easy 拢3.5bn to be picked, I wonder what the response would be if people were offered a choice of tax cuts, e.g. x pence off income tax; take y million people out of tax; raise IHT threshold to 拢1m .... I can't help thinking that if asked this, the vote would not be for a major change to IHT. Perhaps the 大象传媒 could run a poll with some costed options?

Nic, Andrew and others call people who say there should be a re-balancing of the non dom loophole "chippy".

In fact, every other country charges tax on worldwide income. We are the odd ones out. The only place to go to avoid the 拢25K charge would be Geneva (dull market town) or Monaco (would cost you a lot more than 拢25K!).

So this really brings us into line with the international scene and means people would pay a fair share for the cost of running the UK. What's wrong with that?

I'll leave out the "what the heck are these parasitical non-dom-pom-poms doing here鈥� rant (for the time being) and focus on the points you have raised.

I feel quite sorry for the down-market end of the 鈥渘on-dom鈥� stratum, because 25 big ones to those poor little guys might impose an undue hardship (e.g. only one skiing holiday per hemisphere each year). On the other hand, the same sum per annum to a member of the super rich 鈥渆lite鈥� is a mere trifle and barely worth mentioning.

These circumstances usually call for a pro-rated scale, say 10 percent of global income. Then make them declare it and put some private dicks on the case to catch a few liars if they can. That would create a new industry and make some great entertainment in the tabloids that would easily make up the shortfall when these 鈥渢alented鈥� individuals scram. We don鈥檛 need 鈥榚m anyway, my granny would have said. But she lived in north Wales, not London, and rich non-dom鈥檚 just inflate the house prices there, and naff all else.

Another 大象传媒 reporter on the payroll of Nulabour.
拢2500o is small change for a millioniare to live in this country and enjoy its freedoms.
NuLabour isnt exactly shy at sucking up to non domiciles and even prone to dishing out the odd peerage.
Lord Paul , a non domicile has stated that he will fund NuLabour at the next election.
Did you not think that worthy of a mention Mr Peston?

Two points from an ex-city trader who used to work with lots of Europeans/ N Americans:-
1. Non-domiciles come to London because it is the centre of global finance and it is where they can further their careers. Asking them to pay tax in the UK will not be enough to persuade them to return to more provincial centres in Europe or America.
2. It is galling for Brits in the City to sit next to people doing the same job who might be paid the same amount before tax, but they take home much more of it. I never objected to paying my contribution to the running of the country, but I do object to non-domiciles salting their money away in offshore tax havens and contributing to nobody.

In response to some responders.

This will become Labour Policy. As a magpie it relies on Conservative Policies. The only problem is it adds gross incompetence, misleads the voters and tends to make matters worse.

It will become labour policy just before the next election.

It's own homegrown policies have proved to be dangerous and costly to this nation (think Iraq, NHS, education, family support, tax credits, off balance sheet financing like Enron, collapsing banks, single parents, regional expenditure etc).

First, The UK has one of the largest networks of double tax treaty i.e. over 100. For those who are not conversant with the workings of the double taxation treaties, they are conventions between two countries that aim to eliminate the double taxation of income or gains arising in one territory and paid to residents of another territory. Therefore the tax due in the UK is unlikely to be high.

Secondly, it is not the non-domiciled individuals who have contributed to the mismanagement of the economy. In fact they have been net contributors to the economy. They not only pay higher taxes (both direct and indirect,but they also provide employment to a number of people.

Thirdly, not all non-domiciled individuals have millions and billions (or else they all would have made it on to the rich list). This perception of rich non-tax paying non-domiciled individuals is a red herring carefully employed by those who wish to misinform others.

The government should target those who have 鈥淯K sourced income鈥�, which is not taxed in the UK.

I believe that the government should provide a true assessment of the pros & cons of non-domiciled individuals living in the UK to the UK economy.

From a concerned reader鈥�..

From a concerned reader......

First, The UK has one of the largest networks of double tax treaty i.e. over 100. For those who are not conversant with the workings of the double taxation treaties, they are conventions between two countries that aim to eliminate the double taxation of income or gains arising in one territory and paid to residents of another territory. Therefore the tax due in the UK is unlikely to be high.

Secondly, it is not the non-domiciled individuals who have contributed to the mismanagement of the economy. In fact they have been net contributors to the economy. They not only pay higher taxes (both direct and indirect,but they also provide employment to a number of people.

Thirdly, not all non-domiciled individuals have millions and billions (or else they all would have made it on to the rich list). This perception of rich non-tax paying non-domiciled individuals is a red herring carefully employed by those who wish to misinform others.

The government should target those who have 鈥淯K sourced income鈥�, which is not taxed in the UK.

I believe that the government should provide a true assessment of the pros & cons of non-domiciled individuals living in the UK to the UK economy.

My wife is Australian and non-domiciled. I am British and domiciled. She already pays tax on her UK income at the marginal rate of 40% and has no income from overseas. If I understand the propoal correctly then I am concerned this means she would have to pay this 'levy' regardless of the fact she has no income from overseas. I am deeply concerned by this. If the Tories get elected and implement this proposal then we would have to leave the UK, taking our tax revenues with us.

Not content with a 150% rise in the values of their properties, the electorate now seemingly believes it is entitled to pass these "hard earned savings" on to their kids free of tax, presumably so they can rent out the property and help with the mortgages their grandchildren can no longer afford.

The solution lies not in increasing the threshold, it lies in returning prices back to normal. But I guess that's not a vote winner.

Not content with a 150% rise in the values of their properties, the electorate now seemingly believes it is entitled to pass these "hard earned savings" on to their kids free of tax, presumably so they can rent out the property and help with the mortgages their grandchildren can no longer afford.

The solution lies not in increasing the threshold, it lies in returning prices back to normal. But I guess that's not a vote winner.

I would rather they had the balls to restructure a benefits system that seems to favour non-tax payers (in some cases NEVER-tax-payers) rather than a tiny minority of people, many of whom already contribute to the UK economy in other ways (businesses etc).

I would also like them to be rid of the NHS entirely. I would prefer my spare tax cash be spent on a good quality private healthcare policy, rather than treat premature illegitimate son number 6 of that cigarette chomping 15 year old that the government seems to love to sponsor.

post 36 Chris S,

You are right in sayingthat house prices returning to a normal value is the correct way to address the issue, and not a rise in the IHT, but this is an impossible situation that can not be alowed to happen in real terms. This wuld put the country into a major down turn leaving many people in a dire state with negative equity. not too mention the financial market with all it's loand bundeled and secured on the back of the property boom!

Inflation in house prices has to slow significantly too allow everything else to catch-up and how long will this take, look at the underlying rate of inflation, with a target 2% year on year, it will take a long time and be painfully slow for many people.

I can't afford 拢25k a year!!!

Might have to vote red!?

On a day when Invisible Brown has make a misleading statement in Iraq about the number of our troops returning for Christmas it is difficult not to be very cynical about Nouveau Labour and their pals in the Beeb. The virulent attack by the Newsnight gang last night on Tory policy to reduce the death tax by levying a charge on wealthy non doms must have greatly cheered our dear leader. As Tartan Jim on the Today programme carried on the good work this morning with forensic questioning of DC with a view to exposing inconsistency in Tory policy it is clear that the Beeb is gearing up for its usual unbiased coverage of the Brit political scene. Do we really believe Alistair Darling has fully investigated the idea of levying a charge on non doms? I seem to recall Invisible raising the subject in the distant past but amnesia is an essential part of the new Labour wardrobe. Is it possible that a wealthy and close adviser to Invisible is a non dom? Watching Beeb hacks leap to the defence of non doms has been most touching.

Andrew need not be concerned about his Australian wife.This is not an obligatory tax on non-domicile status, just on earnings. She would only have to pay if she had overseas earnings and wanted to protect them from a UK tax charge. Even if she did have such earnings, she could still elect to declare them and have them taxed at normal UK rates. So, unless any overseas earnings were in excess of 拢62,500 it wouldn't be worth paying the fixed tax charge. No worries, mate!

The trouble with this one-size-fits-all approach is that it doesn't fit all.

Certainly some non-doms are unfeasibly wealthy and could write an annual cheque for 拢25,000 without even noticing the money was gone.

Then there are many more non-doms who have trivial offshore income. Paying 拢25,000 to keep it tax-free is clearly absurd, but paying tax on it requires an additional swathe of accountants' fees to declare and pay a few pounds in tax. I certainly wouldn't want to pay an accountant an extra 拢50 to find out I needed to pay 拢3 in tax on offshore income.

Perhaps if the 拢25k fee was waived, along with any tax due, for anyone with assets below a certain threshold offshore that would be a better solution.

Subhash Vij wrote:
"I can't afford 拢25k a year!!!
Might have to vote red!?"

How can a non-dom vote ? Mr. Subhash Vij, quioted from above, certainly thinks he can! We must therfore conclude that our electoral role needs to be guarded with greater carefully if it is not to be abused by self confessed foreigners.

Alistair Darling on the 大象传媒's Politics Show said that the Tory proposals were unsustainable as the money from Non-Domiciled Residents would not cover the costs. As a result the Tories would have to borrow and this was unacceptable.

Clearly, you should judge his forthcoming statements on the economy by this standard.

If these indicate the government will continue to run a deficit and, particularly, if this is expected to increase you need to hold him to account for he will be shown to be a hypocrite and that this government continues to be Blairist in their spinning.

I think the Tories need a dom-to spank them!

I am amazed at how everyone thinks non dom's are rich. I am a non dom because I have had to live here to look after my mother, and I only have an income per annum of less than 15.000拢 so how are people such as I, and there are many who have small businesses, supposed to pay 拢30,000. I am not the only one talking about leaving, some are going to close their small businesses putting people out of work, and I will have to leave my mother to be looked after by the state. We are not all multimillionaires. Think!

I just dont understand why high incomes automatically entitle you to paying less tax?
Why is it that the billionaires in this country, non-dom or not, earn a combined 拢54 billion and pay only an estimated 拢15million in taxes?

Now a 拢30,000 tax is causing a mass exodus of uber rich?

That seems absurd and immoral.