大象传媒

EU-zone bailout fund.

I am willing to bet that Osborne is today spitting feathers at the EU.

It seems the euro-zone bailout fund has now spread to include non-Eurozone members including the UK.

Peston warned of this and I admit I for one did not think the EU would go beyond the Euro-zone nations for the fund.

The Lisbon treaty (which the UK was not allowed to hold a referendum on) apparently contains a clause allowing such a fund to cover 鈥渘atural disasters or exceptional occurrences beyond its control.鈥�

The Eurozone members are arguing that the market reaction to the Greek debt is an 鈥渆xceptional occurrence beyond its control.鈥�

The reality of course is that the Greek debt has always been under the total control of the Greek government but this is being glossed over to enable the Euro-zone members to share their misery and liability across the rest of us.

Apparently the UK liability is now to be 10% of the whole or 12bn EUR!

The stitch up, because it has been just that, must, we can only hope, be refused out offhand by our next government despite the majority voting that we also let the EU slip over on us.

Thank you for that investment advice. I'll look out for the announcement and then commit my life savings.

"a British financial contribution" = UK tax payers
"鈧�50bn or so in toto of finance for emergency loans to financially stretched eurozone members" = throw good money after bad
Never mind proportional representation if you ask the tax payer in the UK Germany or America "do you want to keep footing the bill?" the answer is probably no!
As Robert Higgs said about this so called stimulus its like taking water from the deep end of the pool and pouring it into the shallow end and hoping the water level will rise.
For years the Japanese government has been throwing stimulus packages at their economy dropping interest rates to zero, preventing liquidation and trying to prop up prices and bad debt. It all obstructs the correction that has to come and will come in the end. Japan has done everything America and Europe now want to do resulting in an economic depression of well over a decade. Why cant we learn from the Japanese ie dont make the same proven mistakes. Allow correction to occur.

'with the money to be raised by bonds sold against the security of the European Commission's annual budget.'

The EC's annual budget is raised from the EC members, half of whom seem to be in current or imminent danger of financial collapse, what kind of security is that and what would the market price the risk as ? (given that the books are opaque and have not balanced for years).

Surely the market will say
'We price the risk of lending to Greece etc. as 13.9%, would we price the risk of lending to the EC so they can lend to Greece as any less risky ?'

This coulb be the straw that breaks the cammels back and starts the uk's withdrawl from the EU if we are railroaded into proping up the Euro

George Osborne and the ECB
It may be a sense of anxiety within the ECB that if this man becomes Britain鈥檚 next Chancellor of the Exchequer, he will call on the IMF to audit Britain鈥檚 books and see exactly what has gone wrong to cause the huge UK deficit. This would be a wise move, except for the involvement of the IMF. Any audit should occur from EU financial experts, not the IMF which is mostly American backed.
Osborne also promised (I think in July, 2009) to scrap the FSA, which I thought at the time demonstrated a huge financial gap in his reality. It鈥檚 not less regulation that is required but more regulation. I couldn鈥檛 believe that Osborne was really serious. Did he think, does he think NOW, that he can scrap Britain鈥檚 financial regulator and reconstruct something else, or worse 鈥� not reconstruct anything in its place? This too would be a highly Americanized approach.
The FSA must have its hands full already without any thought about its deconstruction. The very thought that the Bank of England could've handled the financial crisis any better is just not reality. After all, it was the failure of old-boy network under the Bank, the Securities & Investments Board, and the various sub-regulators like the Securities & Futures Association, that necessiated the the FSA in the first place.
Effective financial regulation is about effective communications 鈥� here and abroad. It鈥檚 also about detailed understanding of technical matters that need oversight, if not outright elimination, like low-interest derivative trading and cedit default swaps.

GO does not, of course, know how big the black hole of government finances is that Alastair Darling is both sitting on and is keeping quite about.

The European Finance Ministers obviously do not APPEAR to know the precise financial position of other EU countries otherwise there would not be this amateurish round of meetings and questions.

How can the EU do anything financially when it has no overall indication of the individual and collective liabilities of EU nation states? What a farce!

Would GB even benefit from the bail out fund being outside of the Euro currency?

My guess is that GO will be more circumspect and disciplined as UK Chancellor than anything we have seen for more than 13 years ... with our taxpayers money.

It seems Osborne and Darling have little room to manoeuvre.
From the LibDem manifesto (probably under copywright but I'm sure they won't mind a quote from it)
"And we will put Britain at the heart of Europe, to ensure we use our influence to achieve prosperity, security and opportunity for Britain."
Well, he who pays the piper calls the tune. Just shows what happens when you put Libdems in control. If UK doesn't stump up, what influence?
I wonder if Ken Clarke is keen to bail them out. What a pity all our money has been spent. Oh, I'm forgetting - it's not real money of course.

Does anyone realise how big our official and hidden deficit are. As of today over 拢165,000 per private sector worker in the UK. That's over a 6.5 multiple. Even at the most foolish phase of the lending craze there wasn't a bank that would lend at that multiple, not officially anyway.

Perhaps commentators would like to explain how this worker is going to create the wealth to pay off this govt debt and his own mortgage, and save for a pension, while paying taxes at the current rate. Because at 6% over 25 years that's 100% pa gross salary without taxes, pension and food. It's unsustainable.

Without a mandate for the conservatives, the markets will impose the solution.

News from France is that Darling has already said "No" to any hope of the UK joining the Euro "safety mechanism", whatever it might be. @ Paul Weighell : the basis of the whatever it's going to be will have to be EU-wide, I understand, and it will need a qualified majority vote of the EU to be carried. Given that there are 16 eurozone members out of 27, those members don't necessarily need the UK's support. But could the UK offer anything other than moral support? My understanding is you're broke ; (

NB today is Europe Day!

Nobody really knows what the true debt in Europe is and yet there are these "financial experts" who want the tax payers to give them more money (if it still exists) to give away to people, one could argue, who do not have the faintest idea what they are doing. Its like turning the bath tap on hoping to fill the bath up knowing the plug has been pulled out, with no idea of the size of the plug hole!

"communautaire" spirit I'll drink to that and make mine a large one before the VAT plus duty goes up

Here we are-two days after the election with no real leadership and with world financial markets teetering in the most volatile way.

As a relatively minor story in today鈥檚 media, we are told that even though we are not in the Euro, Britain must pay several Billion pounds into a new European fund to prop up countries that are in the Euro.

When is Cameron going to act like a man and realise that the nouveau Conservative policy of political correctness on European integration is what has actually stopped the Conservatives getting that all important overall majority.

The Conservatives should not be wasting time talking about Proportional Representation and doing deals with the Liberals. Cameron should act resolutely and should be preparing a Queen Speech that proposes that we should give up our Euro-enthusiast legal obligations under the Lisbon Treaty so as to prevent the UK Taxpayer from being even more in debt to support this failed currency and the failed European federal model.

I suspect that this would be voted down by Labour and Libdems 鈥搘hich will then mean we have another election. Cameron will be free to go to the Election with a less politically correct Euro passive agenda . The Conservatives have it within their grasp to step back from this failed European project NOW and protect British interests.

Is my understanding correct. The markets decide what rate to applu to UK Gilts, then some of the money raised from these is paid to the EU, and because the EU now has a revenue stream, they are going to issue bonds on that.

That seems just a little strange.

Wouldn't Euro Finance Ministers be better reading The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism, Naomi Klein rather than talking to someone who hasn't finished the Dummies Economics book?

Germany and France and north countries are going to have to leave the euro

This will enable club med countries to devalue (like UK sterling has 25%)and their debt to be devalued.

They will then be able to become competitive again and provide one of the things they have provided well for many years: A place for all us northerners to go in the sun to rest from all this havoc. (rumours suggest we are now heading for Turkey instead as its cheaper and less riots- this makes things worse)

They then have a chance of repaying debt.

I feel this is now the only endgame.

The global finance system needs complete root and branch reform. We cant have hedge funds/banks betting against tax payers and impoverishing the poor because politicians move too slowly (and then the banks being repaid by tax payers when they get the bet wrong). There will have to be a big repayment from the rich to the poor to pay for this. failing that its probably instability and global war. The human race will have finally self destructed due to everyone overplaying their hand

I never understood why bonds worked on a coupon-only until maturity rather than a gradual repayment basis (compare repayment mortgages). This makes the system inherently brittle under stress. Anyone know why this is? Its a ridiculous way to run a 11T dollar system

mereEngineer

The ministers of the Eurozone cannot seriously expect the U.K. to provide funds to prop up those failing economies. It is not realistic.

Plus the fact that the U.K. is broke anyway and hardly has enough money to pay its own debts.

I always believed that charity begins at home.

Don't the clowns ever learn?

What do you do when your Ponzi scheme is about the fail....?

- simply set up a new one!!

On the bright side we might only be doing a day week next week as it could be all over by Thursday.

So many things are happening - I forget it's a Sunday. We're missing some of the BIG events - like the injection of 2 Trillion Yen into the Japanese Economy and the unwinding of the worlds largest carry trade.

If we keep our shirts on Monday then we should count ourselves vey lucky.

I have begun nailing boards over my windows....

Why don't the European Finance ministers get "Bernie" Madoff released on parole to help them convince people to lend them money so that they can pay money out to others.

I would also warn you all of this xenephobic picture being painted of the following:

1) The greeks / portuguese / spanish etc. are lazy and got themselves into their own mess
2) The EU has foced us into contributing to the bailout
3) The Argentinians don't like us drilling oil off their shores
4) The US are blaming BP - cited as a 'British' company for the oil spill
5) The chinese being blamed ofr currency manipulation
6) The Japanese protestng against US military bases

....all reasons to start wars folks, they're just lining up the options through propoganda.
Nations are going back to their most base instincts - which means you should all expect reasons like the above to be turned into a 'credible reason for war'.

Finally the internal option - the electorate are at fault for not picking a majority Government - i.e. civil war, citing the vote balance in England with the rest of the UK returning us to the conflicts of old.

The only war that needs to be waged is a class one - the rest are all deadly distractions.

What about Vince Cable's views - he's the possible chancellor with the most credibility in the UK, surely?

Well writingsonthewall if it is that bad we will have to call for thrashed Gordon to save the world II

A week is a long time to live in interesting times

Goldman Sachs should be charged with Conspiracy to Defraud, and Insider Trading, for hiding greece debts at the start.

By paying off greece debts, they will only want more, and the is going to send the european markets crashing like a pile of dominoes.

We should just get it over and let them default, because it will be less serious than what is to come.

As one of the most indebted countries in Europe, I think we should offer Osborne to our troubled Euro friends, and keep the 50bn to ourselves.

At a date when Europe is celebrating the end of World War 2, it is ironic that commentators are busy trying to bust up the European Union, from my perspective (75) one of the miracles of the postwar world. Yes, there is a major problem with Greece and the Euro (Goldman Sachs?), but that doesn't mean we should kick the European Community into touch. In the thirties, Britain (at the behest of the Tory press) stood idly by while fascism took hold. The last thing we should do now is to back away from the problem. We should give whatever support is appropriate. Hiding away in a cul de sac is not the answer. International co-operation is needed, not sitting on a fence throwing raspberries. The Hung Parliament in the UK has at least brought the Tories up with a jerk. Maybe they'll learn something from it, maybe they won't. I hope they do.

I'm surprised George had the time to talk to them. Presumably he was deep in conversation with his acquaintances from the banks.
He would have exchanged phone numbers when they met on some yacht on the Med.
Call it hedging your bets.
They are good at that.
It's what they do.

So, the EU rule book that has been pronounced sacrosanct in every matter becomes a loose, flexible, malleable tool as soon as Paris-Berlin-Brussels require it to be!

The duplicity, connivance & under-the-table machinations of this EUro-zone crowd knows no limits!

All in a totally flawed effort to maintain the ludicrous fiction of 'one-size-fits-all' & 'EU is good, all else is bad!'

Surely this latest bout of supra-National political chicanery to cobble together emergency 'subsidies' that cannot be called subsidy is the end of this destitute, rudderless organisation's temerity to call itself a 'EUropean Union'!?

There is another distinct blessing: No more having to read the utter drivel of 'pro-EU' about the benefits of 'strength of togetherness' & 'collective solidarity'.
They will know the response will be, 'GREEK/EURO CRISIS'! Enough said.

If Osbourne becomes chancellor,and its evens that he will,I'd be hoping that he'll delve head first into stricter regulation of financial markets.Previous regimes,notably the Blair/Bush fiascoes,effectively removed most regulatory mechanisms that allowed various morally,if not ultimately fiscally,bankrupt institutions to say with a cherubic straight face that the crisis wasn't their fault because they hadn't done anything wrong.They han't broken any rules because there weren't any.At the financial industrys' nudging,the pocket politicos had got rid of most of them.

The reason why we might have a minority government or even a coalition is because trust in politicians is at an all time low in Britain.That's fairly obvious.If any one party would seek to make headway in securing a majority it could well start with re-regulation of the financial sector.Too many voters have their lives shattered by the preposterous recession which should never have happened,all things being equal.

In these troubled times I would much rather see Vince Cable as Chancellor rather than George Osborne - but will Cameron ditch his old school mate in the country's interest? I think not - and thus his true colours will be shown.

Interesting to see the gradual pro-labour climb down in evidence Robert, a balanced commentary is what is needed going forward, less of the football style tribal attitudes will be a good thing. As for the next Chancellor making decisive decisions, a week is a long time in politics, open the books to see the profligate waste of the past few years and then one can make some concise measures to help rein it back. Best of luck to the new man is all I can say. Harry

So i hope Osbourne and Vince get a look at the books....bet thats a cure for insomnia. We cannot and should not join euro, this crisis will lead to poilitcal and fiscal union ala United States of Europe!
Priority is sort out fiscal debt/deficit issue first..that was my first requirement when i voted
Set fix term parliments, same number of constitutents and 10% fewer MPs. Redundancy for some MP's will be cheap as most have not been in service that long! Oh yes, sort out a fair way to prevent the Scots and Welsh MP's voting on English only laws until we get debt and a proper electoral reform including devolving more powers to Scots and Welsh up for referendum.

This is a weak article, I'm afraid. Which European finance ministers have contacted George? The list would be interesting.

Vince Cable for chancellor - perhaps that's the next demo there should be in Smith Square...

So what does this do for Iceland's hopes to join the EU and Euro to give it more protection from markets in the future. If Euro-zone tries to cover these debts by borrowing from within rest of EU then the risk and interest rates charged by market to rest of EU will go up. This will spread the pain across a bigger market and population (France, Germany, Italy) but it will mean these countries paying the price of issues Greece, Ireland, Portugal and Spain

Yep there is a real mess.
It has been a long time coming.
And the banks, hedge funds, traders positively want it to happen.
That way they get to make loads of money.

But here is the conundrum. We don't like the banks. We certainly don't like what they are about to do.
But we need the banks.
We will let them kick us in the teeth.
All to stop the real mess that has been coming for even longer from happening. For a wee while longer. And while we are at it we will make it worse.
But whatever happens don't frighten the voters.
Oh how the bankers must be licking their lips.

Somebody is going to make an awful lot of money in the next weeks.
It will all be at the expense of taxpayers.

If Osborne really gets appointed as the chancellor, he'll be a total disaster - the man is completely inexperienced -- the only real job outside politics he's ever held is counting the dead for the NHS.

20 writingsonthewall - "....all reasons to start wars folks"

My money is on China invading Taiwan as the starter. The US is obliged to protect Taiwan under various treaties and will no doubt call on the 'coalition of the willing'! Willing??!!

Anyway, here in Ireland, the sensible ones amongst us campaigned against the Lisbon treaty II (having already kicked it out once, we were then told to vote again until we 'got it right') and one of the reasons we put up was that it was so loose it could be interpreted in too many ways. It seems they are doing just that this afternoon by interpreting a clause that was put in to help non-Euro countries. What's that famous phrase? "I told you so."

1petpat2 is right.

BUT lets keep the EU (which we must all support and is a good thing) separate from the EURO which, like many people said it would be, is a disaster as it provides no safety valve for devaluation when a country loses competitiveness. This latter point is independent of politics (left or right)

Please correct me but the stability pact provides mechanisms for fiscal control (which were clearly not policed correctly) BUT not for loss of competitiveness. A monetary union needs a political union to do the latter and no-one has the stomach for that.

SO we have a huge problem now the pressures have been building up for 10 years and there is no safety valve.

Greece is just the first to fall foul of a half-witted Eurocrat and Euro-sheep. Before Greece joined the Euro they had a cheap and cheerful economy. Cheap holiday destination, cheap food and wine. Joining the Euro locked in their currency to that of the main players and forced a balancing process paid for by borrowing. Spain will follow Greece next.
The solution for Greece... opt out of the Euro-Zone and revert to the drachma then if necessary devaluation, the traditional way out of trouble. Greece will regain its place as a cheap holiday destination.

For Britain to bail out the mess will be like burning 拢50 notes on a bonfire.

#27, cool_brush_work,

Very well said, it's about time the head in the sand bunch suddenly realised that what was on the wall at the beginning was not only possible but likely at some time to happen. I just hope that they have not destroyed any hope of a decent future for us who live in Europe. Time to have a new salary regime for politicians in the EU, no performance means no salary and certainly no pension or expenses.

Robert,
Re. Osborne sounded out ...
Do empty vessels really make the most noise?

40. At 7:22pm on 09 May 2010, what-to-do-now

The joys of Capitalism are everywhere....



Rigged casino, human and environmental costs are ignored in the thirst for profit.
They don't need to prepare for disaster - they will simply leave any mess they create for taxpayers to tidy up.

Banks to Airlines to Oil - big business is killing us all for profit.

Robert
If you ever read these blogs you must be proud at the high standard of responses.
There's the odd exception that proves the rule, eg
"36. At 6:34pm on 09 May 2010, plamski wrote:
If Osborne really gets appointed as the chancellor, he'll be a total disaster - the man is completely inexperienced -- the only real job outside politics he's ever held is counting the dead for the NHS."
But even plamski makes useful comments. (Perhaps he'd prefer Ken Clarke then we'd definitely contribute to the Greek bailout!)
It's not a class war. On average the rich are more capable than the poor, but jealousy is the human condition.
Why did the small parties do so badly? Is it because at a time of crisis we need parties which can act and concentrate on the most important aspects, ie the economy, rather than devolution, immigration, saving the planet etc.? All important but we cannot eg save the planet if we're bankrupt. Perhaps the voters were concentrating after all!
Oh that reminds me, according to Ted Heath I voted for the EC, but from what I remember after all this time the only thing I have been asked to vote for in this context was THE COMMON MARKET. What about you?

European wide riots - world on fire.

If you don't heed this warning then they will make you suffer.



P.s. Notice the part where it's clear an off-road motorbike will be a distinct advantage!

Hilarious when we not only have to print money to bale ourselves out we are now expected to print the money to bail out the Euro.

If I didn't find it so funny I'd probably end up tearing my hair out.

Let the Eurobank print their own money. Or won't the Germans allow that?

Can't blame them. So do we all go down together? Or swim seperately?

How dare other governements 'sound out' Osborne

He is not the Chancellor. At the moment he holds no official position.

If the boot was on the other foot these other governments would be telling others njotmti interfer in domestic political mattters.

Until he is replaced Alastair Darling is the Chacellor of the Exchequer for the UK and other governments should and MUST respect that.

Here's an explanation of who exactly is getting bailed out by the EU.

The city has been fighting tooth and nail to destroy the Euro, after all prior to the formation of the single currency the currency speculators made lots of money out of manipulating currencies.
The banks and money markets work currencies like they worked any other commodity, its essentially another spiv tool.
You trade in currencies, but that all stopped when the Euro was born.
We have vested interest behind this western economy crash/slump.
They want to go back to individual currencies and carry on as normal with the speculation. Only trouble now is they are being investigated for market manipulation and abusing there power and demanding handouts from various governments around the world.
Banks run countries not governments!, they have way too much power and they need regulating or better still nationalizing.The I win you lose mentality has brought the western economies to the brink.

plamski wrote:
If Osborne really gets appointed as the chancellor, he'll be a total disaster - the man is completely inexperienced -- the only real job outside politics he's ever held is counting the dead for the NHS.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Pathetic comment, if you cannot behave in a mature manner than I suggest you post elsewhere.

#3 Dillers - are you suggesting 'facing up to reality' !!!!!!! What are you, some sort of revolutionary....

GB just borrowed 拢180bn for an election campaign... wouldn't that be a waste?

48 writngsonthewall

It is so obvious why can other people not see what is happening.

Gordon Brown has his faults but at least he did not sell half our gold.

Well it seems that the problem is everyones.

That is the cool part since the Greek Government or multiple Governments over the years constructed this problem. Mostly it seems by hiding the real extent of their lending (switching and hiding debt } and mis-reporting percentages of GDP borowing to get better lending rates.

Now that the EU and the rest of the world are in this thing, giving in to this black mail is one possible route.

The other is not rewarding Greece for this behavior.

If Europe's leaders are not strong enough to resist this pressure maybe they should stand aside. If not they may be elected aside by their own people as may happen in Germany.

52. At 9:09pm on 09 May 2010, virtualsilverlady wrote:

"48 writngsonthewall

It is so obvious why can other people not see what is happening."

....oh everyone can see....some refuse to believe it - despite the mounting evidence.

#53, truths33k3r,

Re "Gordon Brown has his faults but at least he did not sell half our gold."

Take a look at Labour's favourite newspaper the Guardian, 5th March 2008,
"Gordon Brown's decision to sell half of Britain's gold reserves nearly a decade ago was coming back to haunt him last night as the price of the precious metal looked poised to break through the $1,000 an ounce barrier for the first time."

Since then it has become apparent that not only did he sell the UK's gold but he announced he was going to do it sometime before he did it, what a clown, or who in your mind did actually sell half's the UK's gold at a rock bottom price, the fairies and elf's at the end of his garden?

The penalty for politicians going against the people is now 'standard'.

"with the money to be raised by bonds sold against the security of the European Commission's annual budget."

Is this the same budget for which the final accounts have not been signed off for years? Hmmm, I can see investors raising the spreads here

53. At 9:10pm on 09 May 2010, truths33k3r wrote:

"Gordon Brown has his faults but at least he did not sell half our gold."

....well he only sold half of it - he was merely following in the line of previous Governments who sold off our assets in order to maintain the pretence of 'balancing the books'.

Imagine how much Gold we could have got for BT, BR or the other national industies that wer sold off in the 80's.

They're all the same - drowning in debt, just like the rest of us.

All the wealth has 'landed' in the laps of the banks - taken from the sheepole by the coalition of finance and Government.

Sounds like a Ponzi scheme Berine would be proud of!

Buzet23 - I was being sarcastic.

Gold is money - paper is lies.

Isn't George Osborne so rabidly opposed to the EU and all its works that he will cut off his own face rather that do anything with anybody in the EU even if by doing so he cripples the country?

PS does GO (exactly the same abbreviation as California's defaulting 'General Obligation' by the way - can this be just a coincidence?) even know where Europe is? I am not convinced he could tell you even though he has spent time with his friend Peter Mandelson on an exotic yacht holiday off of the Greek cost. I suppose I should give him a chance or am I right to be exceedingly sceptical about his knowledge and skills?

By the way 50 bn to the euro fund now, may well be far less expansive that bailing out our own banks if any euro default occurs!!! It may well be a very cheap option! (If it works!)

Lets just hedge our bets and keep talking to anyone. Its all a gamble but hidden as trading.

I really hope they have already prepared an action plan including shutting down the stock market for whatever time it's needed to put the house in order. During the war time the speculators were not tollerated. Well, I don't think we are in a much better position now.

Does everyone out there remember Gordon Brown's 'This is no time for a novice' speech, MMM, let me see. He, being the Iron Chancellor sold off our gold for a ridiculously and insultingly low price,( needed in case something bad happens.) borrowed and taxed and taxed and taxed, threw the money at just about every conceivable corner of the economy, and to what end? No guarantee of an increase in efficiency, no increase in the quality of sevice ANYWHERE! A massively bloated Public Sector, which will need to be cut down in view of the economic crisis we face. And, above all, no way of being able to justify more taxation to help service the interest on our Nat.Debt let alone defecit reduction itself!! Look at the facts, Gordon, YOU were the TIN-POT chancellor, presiding over possibly the worst,idiotic and totally self-obsessed government i've ever voted for. Yes, i switched from Tory to Labour in '97. I feel sick... I voted Tory again in '01 and '05 and on Thursday, my penance is done! Now get out of No.10 and do yours!!

C麓mon people. The gold deal is almost certainly not as straightforward as it appears. It suits the interests of the powerful to portray Brown as some bumbling idiot, but no-one can be that stupid.

Precious metals are alleged to have been subject to long term price suppression, co-ordinated (can you believe) by large banks. JP Morgan is finally under investigation for manipulation of silver prices.

This whole deal has likely run its course and it is about to blow big time. Brown was just a plank in a strategy.

my last post was obviously removed by the moderator. who objects to the truth? Writingsonthewall agrees and it IS relevant. Smell the coffee...

I fail to see how the EU rescue package will make any difference whatsoever. It's another finance bubble being blown up to pop at some point in the future. Will this reduce the deficits of Greece, Spain, Italy, Ireland or the UK? Will this reduce unemployment? Will this address any of the underlying ailment of global economics?

Are we not talking about the people(Markets) who's judgement about debts was so good that we are footing the bill and they are still taking bomuses(Piss)?

What level of exposure do the UK nationalised banks have to Eurozone govt debt?

By the way, congratulations to the EU ministers for being able to locate GO.

He'd have to "see the details" - for that read he'd have to "give it so someone who actually understands economics to evaluate it and provide him with a recommendation". I cannot believe this idiot is being let anywhere near the British economy. in the name of all that is holy, somebody stop him.

Having just spotted this item, it seems to me that the best and only solution to both UK and EU jitters on the financial scene would be to make Ken Clarke Chancellor again. He would calm the markets, and boost the UK's standing on the European stage in one fell swoop. Safe pair of hands, and a mellow positive European outlook.
Osbourne could be found something else to do - in charge of a minor department perhaps.

Being someone who lived through the 2nd world war, the people of Britain must realise we are more or less in the same state financially as we were then and have got to accept the hard times that they are going to have to put up with for a few years.
All this talk about PR is at this time irrellevent. The financial crisis is the main thing on the agenda, nothing else. PR is not going to get us out of this mess. Those on the Conservative side and the Libdem side who can't put their own party dogma to oneside have no interest in what is best for the citizens of this country. They are just putting their own selfish interest first, and in my mind are traitors.
You have a rude awakening to face, they haven't told you how bad this really is.

Perhaps all EU countries should default on their loans to money/bond markets and currency speculating gangs? What are these money gangs going do - sue the planet - find a lawyer to sue countries that stand together - go figure? We are all being driven into the ground by day after day - by whom? Will they show their faces?

Perhaps all democratic countries should start their own banks with decent savings and lending rates?

Also, these people's banks will employ the best people, fully and openly audited accounts and performance. Full legal protection for the savers whose money to be invested in real building and commerce. From economic history, isn't that what banks, building societies and friendly societies were originally set up to do?

It's obvious that there is more progress and stability to be learned from the past? Let's face it - as things stand right now, banking in it's current form has taken us all to a hell we must all turn our backs on and refute their so-called fraudulent contracts which should be null and void?

Osborne should be hounded out - by his own party, if they want to be taken seriously.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.