´óÏó´«Ã½

You know what they say...

There's nowt as queer as folk

The last time I was in Dresden the Stasi followed me everywhere, think yourself lucky.

"Into which, we dont pass solids". Sorry ! couldnt resist!

That's what you get for traveling to the old East! ;-) I as (Western)-German don't go there and now you know why...

Be prepared for more absurdities.

Quoted from Wikipedia:

"To this day, there remain many differences between the former East Germany and West Germany (e.g. in lifestyle, wealth, political beliefs and other matters) and thus it is still common to speak of eastern and western Germany distinctly."

Yes, that's absolutely true. "Other matters" is a very polite circumscription. Germans from the former West like me typically use more drastic formulations... I suppose that people in Bavaria or Baden-Württemberg will pay for a round if you tell them of your bizarre adventures in Saxony, especially watching England against Ecuador in - really? I can't believe! - Dresden. Mainly for your courage...

I think it's fair to say what Scotland is to the English East Germany is to the Germans: A strange place, almost different country with some beautiful and stunning scenery, fantastic sights, people with strange and ugly dialects and manners... a nice place for a few days' visit ;-)...

I love Ost Deutschland....and im English! The people are usually friendly and was last in Dresden in Dec and hope to go back soon....been all over the East from Berlin downwards, never had a problem....would recomend any Englisch guy to go for a holiday, great beer and ok food....

Hey guys, the ‘Jaws’ theme song comes to mind. Consider yourself lucky, at least you got out alive!

Andreas, I think you may misunderstand the English/Scottish relationship. Most parts of Scotland and most Scots are great. OK, they may have a rather excaggerated dislike for the English at times, but generally it only manifests itself in Sports.

For example;
"I support 2 teams; Scotland and whoever is playing England!"

As for the language, well whilst Glaswegians (from Glasgow) certainly have a rather frightening accent, those from the East of Germany have very pleasant accents. Indeed it is said that in Edingburgh you can find the most perfect spoken English.

Or even worse - Herr Schmidt could have invited you to dinner made of road-kill. Why do I have the feeling as if I just insulted all those who have an appreciation for possum stew.

Fletch,
Don't worry, old buffer you may find in any part of the world - even in West-Germany ;-)
On your way if you got the chance stop by at the former borderline. It's sign posted "Gedenkstätte Deutsche Teilung Marienborn" on the Autobahn A2 Berlin-Hannover. A view back to a cruel world.

cu
Andre
(a former East-German)

@julian hales (#8)

There can only be 3 reasons why - as a foreigner - you've been able to move around unharmed in East Germany so far:

1. you speak accent-free german;
2. you have a black belt in some martial arts discipline;
3. you are of caucasian ethnicity ...

oops, I better shut up now ;)

@teutonicaUK

your #1 reason can't be valid. East Germans don't speak accent-free German.

In the South, in Saxony they can't even pronounce "Ya". When they mean "yes" they say "noo"... pretty close to their "nö" (ö is pronounced like the English "ir" in e.g. first) when they mean "nine" (no) ;-) Or just look at all those "tzsch"... Why bothering spelling your city "Leipzig" if actually the local pronounciation is "Laiptzsh"?

And in the North they add a "d" to pretty much every word. e.g. out of "eben" (exactly) they make "ebend" (exactlyd)... I understand consonants are free, you only got to pay for nouns... but still... welld ;-)

I have been and stayed in Berlin, Cottbus, Niesky, Riesa, Zittau and many other places, Most Germans my ago (35) or youger are ok with me, As i do try to speak German (which is not good), even the old ones are fine...i was once told a very old German would never speak a word to me, or like me (a grandfather of my ex German girlfriend) but once he found out i could outdrink him he was great, he even game me his old Military jacket!!! I was in Berlin in Apr/Mai and it was great(well part was, i was invited to a funeral of someone i knew) and i spent my birthday in Berlin, and when the German youg people of the hostel found out they were so kind...

I am PROUD to be English, i always wear a shirt with the English flag on (not British).

The only time i had trouble was in Italy when i was taking a girl to the airport to fly back to Germany (she was German) and 8-10 German (west) teenagers were behind be insutling me big time and they knew i was English but didnt know i spoke(understood German) so when i turned round and offerd them all a fight they soon shut up....but Germans i have found in many trips to be nice people, but i guess one day i will find not so nice ones, just like here i guess.

TeutonikUK has no idea what (s)he's talking about. Just spent three happy days in Leipzig enjoying the World Cup atmosphere. We found it to be the friendliest place we went to in Germany, as well as the city with the most attractive women. It's obvious that not everything is rosy in the garden - we didn't venture out into tough housing estates - but my first experience of East Germany was very positive.

Oh yeah i have been to Leipzig, went to the zoo on the first of May this year...when there was huge rioting!!! very friendly rioters i must say ;-)

Until 2 years ago i was very anti German...i hated them and would insult them if i saw them in England, but then i met a German girl here so theni met her family and was invited over....it changed my view on Germans...i even told them how for 30 years i hated them, but then found out how decent people they generally are..they even forgave my hatred..

There appears to be a split between the old West and East Germany (similar to the north/south divide in England)- does anybody know if that was the case before the enforced split, or if it's something that's developed since?

In most parts of East Germany foreigners have no more problems than in most parts of the West.
For example, almost all university cities like Jena, Weimar, Leipzig, Dresden, Potsdam are great - maybe you should be a bit more careful in Magdeburg or Frankfurt(Oder), though.
Problems are to be found mostly in very rural areas of Mecklenburg and Brandenburg, as well as - very sadly - in the otherwise beautiful Elbsandsteingebirge.

The East is where the most important events of German history took place - some of the most important Kaisers (Otto and Friedrich Barbarossa) lived there; Bach (Leipzig), ±áä²Ô»å±ð±ô (Halle), Goethe, Schiller (Weimar, Jena), Humboldt (Berlin) and many more lived and worked here; Shakespeare's works were first translated here (by Schlegel in Jena); Luther translated the Bible in Eisenach and started Protestantism in Wittenberg; most of the European kings and queens have roots in Gotha (in Thuringia, near Erfurt; see Saxe-Coburg-Gotha), and so on...

@julian hales

Hi Julian,

very interesting comment. Why did you hate Germany and/or the Germans? What was the rationale? As a German, who occasionally makes fun of the English for all the obvious reasons but deep inside shows great respect for them and who had the greatest time the night before England's first WC match in Frankfurt with all the England fans I would really like to know. Maybe this WC can help all of us to overcome our prejudices...

Andreas

Thinking in stereotypes. You WILL SEE what you WANT TO SEE (Self-sufficient prophecy). Open up your mind and you will realize that the world is much more interesting. Stereotypes provide stuff for jokes men nothing more.
If you only can feel superb by belonging to a group (east-west, black-white, english-german) what a poorness.

@#19: Thomas, I don't necessarily agree. I've heard that university professors at eastern universities actively advise foreign students not to study at their universities. Before the WC we frequently heard reports about neo-nazi violence in the east. That's not made up, is it?

@#19, DaveH:
I think the "split" only developed because of the separation after WW2.
I think it's going to take another 50 years for the border to disappear. I was born in Dresden, lived there for 9 years, then moved to West Germany where I spent the past 20 years. I must admit I have been only twice to Eastern Germany, and the people there are somewhat different...
But I hope the English audience will take the comments here with the mandatory grain of salt.

@DaveH

I can confirm from personal experience contact with East-Germans can be surreal ... but not necessarily in a negative way.
Still in his teens, my father fled from East Germany (Saxony) to the West in the mid-fifties, leaving behind his pretty large family.
I only got to meet a few of them well after reunification and there still are different mentalities/mind-sets in place, at least with the middle-age+ generations. Hmmm, maybe I can add a bit of perspective to the article.

West-Germans tend to look down on Easterners with disregard or even contempt, especially so for their unmodern views on society and lifestyles, often reminiscent of the 50s' way of life in the West. East Germans are portrayed as the stereotypical fuddy-duddy 'Spiesser', just like Herr Schmidt FTA - and there is more than a grain of truth to this stereotype.
A popular explanation for this 'retarded' state of society in East-Germany is the political system of the former GDR which indoctrinated its subjects with the political elite's dogmatic views on family and society in general.
The East German society also missed out on the West-German absorption of several decades worth of immigrants.
Combined with the often desolate situation of families and their perceived role as the German underdogs, foreigners are invariably received with hostility and even violence.

Still, all is not lost with the Ossis:
They tend to be more direct and sincere in personal matters and are less prone to exploit relationships for personal benefits, as one sees frequently with Westerners. They sure know how to party and their sex-life is said to be way better :).

Actually, my best friend is of East-German origin and he is a very sincere, modest and bright guy.

Of course, mentalities have been blended for almost twenty years now and in one or two generations' time the mind-sets will not differ more between East and West than between North and South, I guess.

Greetings from Bonn,
Dirk.

@DaveH

I can confirm from personal experience contact with East-Germans can be surreal ... but not necessarily in a negative way.
Still in his teens, my father fled from East Germany (Saxony) to the West in the mid-fifties, leaving behind his pretty large family.
I only got to meet a few of them well after reunification and there still are different mentalities/mind-sets in place, at least with the middle-age+ generations. Hmmm, maybe I can add a bit of perspective to the article.

West-Germans tend to look down on Easterners with disregard or even contempt, especially so for their unmodern views on society and lifestyles, often reminiscent of the 50s' way of life in the West. East Germans are portrayed as the stereotypical fuddy-duddy 'Spiesser', just like Herr Schmidt FTA - and there is more than a grain of truth to this stereotype.
A popular explanation for this 'retarded' state of society in East-Germany is the political system of the former GDR which indoctrinated its subjects with the political elite's dogmatic views on family and society in general.
The East German society also missed out on the West-German absorption of several decades worth of immigrants.
Combined with the often desolate situation of families and their perceived role as the German underdogs, foreigners are invariably received with hostility and even violence.

Still, all is not lost with the Ossis:
They tend to be more direct and sincere in personal matters and are less prone to exploit relationships for personal benefits, as one sees frequently with Westerners. They sure know how to party and their sex-life is said to be way better :).

Actually, my best friend is of East-German origin and he is a very sincere, modest and bright guy.

Of course, mentalities have been blended for almost twenty years now and in one or two generations' time the mind-sets will not differ more between East and West than between North and South, I guess.

Greetings from Bonn,
Dirk.

RE why i hated Germans...

Hi Andeas

I hated Germans because from a child due to WW1 and WW2....i thought they were all bad....my late grandmother said no, a lot of them did not want to fight, but the much later born people had no hatred and were just like us....i didnt belive her and still had bad feelings...

I have on the mantle piece (just over my fireplace where i can place things) i keep the 3 medals from my great grandfather from WW1 and the Somme.

When i first dated the German girl who came to my city to study in early 05 i was wondering that when she would come to my house for the first time, what she would say...and maybe she would be offended. I asked online to a plastic model forum i use and asked advice from Germans, they said no she would not be offended, but maybe would ask why...when she did visit she was fine.

Now i have met many Germans, and been many times in the past year and been treat very well.

When i was in Berlin for a funeral on the 28th of Apr i was treat with warth from the whole family of my ex, They said i should sit near the front of the seats, not at the very very back of the church where i said i would sit, then the next day i visited them for a few hours and they stood and sang happy birthday to me in English, German and Polish...very moving!

I have some pics of my visits the family.

The only time i have met one very unfriendly German was my first visit was last year, i was collected from Berlin by my ex girls brother and friend and driven to Cottbus to surprise her, we stopped for a drink and sat outside a bar...the waiter came with all the drinks and spilt them all over me...he did not say sorry or offer to give the drinks for free etc!! that was my very first vist!!!

The family of my ex girl came to my city last year and enjoyed it.

I am very proud to be English, but luckily changed my view of Germans.

Road Kill? Possum stew? Ouch, that sounds more like West Virginia.
Herr Schmidt does seem very eccentric but the really scary thing about him are his shorts.

As for Eastern Germany: a beautiful part of the world with very nice folks.
(Unfortunately, a small number of frustrated, unemployed, and socially inept give the region a bad wrap.)

One question though to Fletch and Ricco. With the ´óÏó´«Ã½ being the world’s largest broadcast network and having a multi-billion (Pound/Dollar/Euro) budget, how is it that they can’t provide two established, middle-aged sports guys with hotel accommodations? Is it that they want you to ‘rough’ it? Are you being reprimanded? Or are you just two nature-loving guys who seek the simple life? Well, I guess it’s okay as long as you each get your own sleeping bag. You do get your own sleeping bag, don’t you? Oh my God, the ´óÏó´«Ã½ is in financial crisis mode.

Road Kill? Possum stew? Ouch, that sounds more like West Virginia.
Herr Schmidt does seem very eccentric but the really scary thing about him are his shorts.

As for Eastern Germany: a beautiful part of the world with very nice folks.
(Unfortunately, a small number of frustrated, unemployed, and socially inept give the region a bad wrap.)

One question though to Fletch and Ricco. With the ´óÏó´«Ã½ being the world’s largest broadcast network and having a multi-billion (Pound/Dollar/Euro) budget, how is it that they can’t provide two established, middle-aged sports guys with hotel accommodations? Is it that they want you to ‘rough’ it? Are you being reprimanded? Or are you just two nature-loving guys who seek the simple life? Well, I guess it’s okay as long as you each get your own sleeping bag. You do get your own sleeping bag, don’t you?

Herr Schmidt is the scariest guy ever!

Herr Schmidt is the scariest guy ever!

Herr Schmidt is the scariest guy ever!

An important reason why you may find 'Spießers' around Dresden more 'spießig' (narrow-minded, square, antiquated ...) than elsewhere in East Germany is that this region was the "Tal der Ahnungslosen' or 'valley of the ignorant/innocent'. Until ~1990 it was the only part of Germany where West German TV and FM radio couldn't be received. So there was much less western influence than elsewhere to overcome the experience of a Kaiserreich and two subsequent dictatorships.

I am part German and have visited nearly every part of the country. There are good and bad folks to be found everywhere, but do have to say that I have always felt more comfortable in Bavaria and the Rheinland than in the East.

This is best summed up on a visit to the main railway station in the main cities - in Munich and Nuremberg there is a happy atmosphere of gemütlichkeit, while in Dresden everyone seems to be miserable - and you can often encounter small groups of urban camo-clad skins lurking about which adds to the somewhat uneasy atmosphere.

well, I don´t know how many fans are travelling over there around Leipzig, but here, close to three WC-Locations, we have mobilized EVERY possible camping site to provide enough space at affordable prices for low budget fans coming over to join the party.Public parks, industrial sites and even back gardens. The last weeks, there were a lot of fans from poorer countries here supporting their teams and most of them needed to be hosted at a low price.We haven´t expected so much fans coming in, but the more, the better.Its a special situation, but a lot of fun and- would your blog be so interesting , if you would write about Germany`s Holiday Inns?
You should try to continue your blogging journey with a B+B tour in the U.k., there are a lot of Herr Schmidt out there , they just call themselves Mr.Smith.Stayed at one, where you weren´t allowed to use the loo after midnight.
And to all who think they hate Germans: come over, join the party and see for yourselve. I Think, a lot of the problem with the people in the eastern part is due to the prohibition of travelling for 40 years.A lot of them have never contact to people from other countries , most of the older ones don´t speak english and therefore can´t get in touch with them. There are nice people all over the world, you just have to meet them!

I am from West Germany and I did my millitary service in 1999 close to the former border. Most of my comrades where from the east and they where realy great people. There was a sence of community there that is less pronounced in the west. They where howerver all educated people and many of them where complaining about ignorance in the east among the lesser educated.
I think the biggest problem is the migration from east to west that sees many intelligent people leaving and only the ones that are unable to deal with things as they are now stay back. This is a selection that now tends to even amplify itself.

As far as I know there used to be no such diference before the partition of the country. Prussias capital and the capital of the Weimar Republic was there and the east belonged to the most powerfull and advanced parts of Germany.

Congratulations on your entry Annette (blog #34). It’s always good to hear a voice of reason…and thank you for contributing to making this World Cup a great success not only for our nations but especially for all those who are visiting.

Indeed, there are nice people all over the world and you come across as one of them.

Enjoy the rest of the WC and the accompanying festivities.

P.S. I can’t get the image out of my head of Herr Schmidt continuously riding his customized lawn mower over the same patch of grass. :-)

Congratulations on your entry Annette (blog #34). It’s always good to hear a voice of reason…and thank you for contributing to making this World Cup a great success not only for our nations but especially for all those who are visiting.

Indeed, there are nice people all over the world and you come across as one of them.

Enjoy the rest of the WC and the accompanying festivities.

P.S. I can’t get the image out of my head of Herr Schmidt continuously riding his customized lawn mower over the same patch of grass. :-)

Now then, I just want to say how pleased I am that people are really entering into a serious discussion on how people of the former east contrast with thise of the former west.

To Annette - you are absolutely right, the B&B people of England are, being tactful, uninque.

But they are colourful and interesting - as was Mr Schmidt. As you have doubtless noticed, I did not say I wished I had never met him, just that the experience will llive with me for a long time.

Do I see an analogy here? Both Britain and East Germany are/were islands. Mr. Smith is surrounded by the sea; Herr Schmidt was enclosed by the wall. Isolation does create some strange/original/interesting behaviour sometimes.

Michael M, your ‘island’ analogy is interesting. You are in fact suggesting that it takes a certain amount of isolation for eccentrics such as ‘Herr Schmidt’ and ‘Mr. Smith’ to evolve. That is some of the most gobbledygook I have heard in a while. First of all, England has always been a seafaring nation with people constantly traveling to and from the ‘island’ - which in recent memory has been replaced by modern transportation technology. To compare that to the isolation that an East Germany experienced under communist rule is hogwash. Secondly, the ‘Herr Schmidt’s’ and ‘Mr. Smith’s’ can be found in every country on our planet. Eccentrism is the product of genetic disposition and (to a lesser extent) environment. I’m not suggesting that communist rule did not have an impact on ‘Herr Schmidt’ but it is not the underlying reason for his uniqueness.

Expanding on what Annette suggested, I welcome the Herr Schmidt’s and the Mr. Smith’s of the world. If everyone would be like you and me it would be sorry place. I still prefer the Holiday Inn over his back yard but running into characters like him adds to the experience of life.

I would also love to take issue with your analogy in entry/blog #32 but let me just say that reading your entries makes be think that the ‘Tal der Ahnungslosen’ (valley of the ignorant) may have possibly been a much larger geographical area than I first thought. I write that respectfully.

This must be due to my own isolation then, which again proves my theory. ;)

°Õ´Ç³Ü³¦³óé!

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