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Thursday 13 October 2011

Verity Murphy | 17:20 UK time, Thursday, 13 October 2011

The independent watchdog for health and social care says a fifth of NHS hospitals are breaking the law, when it comes to properly feeding and treating elderly patients.

The Care Quality Commission visited 100 hospitals, and found cause for concern at more than half of them.

Tonight we examine what was said and how much of this a reflection of how the elderly are treated in Britain more generally.

Peter Marshall has a report looking into who are the backers who raised funds to pay for Adam Werritty to act as Defence Secretary Liam Fox's adviser, and David Grossman will have the latest developments on the story.

We have a live interview with former Barnsley MP Eric Illsley who was jailed for expenses fraud.

Susan Watts reports on the new obesity strategy for England in which the government has tried to stress the importance of personal responsibility.

And we have a report on how garments labelled "designed in Scotland" and sold by UK high street chain Edinburgh Woollen Mill are actually being made by North Korean labour in Mongolian factories.

Comments

  • Comment number 1.

    "how garments labelled "designed in Scotland" and .. actually being made by North Korean labour in Mongolian factories."

    Rather better that fake branded lighters sold in Singapore labelled "Made in British" (I refer to the historical, probably apocryphal, situation, not recent times.)

    One has to ask however why can't we make the garments here? Our labour costs too much and our rents are too high - but what this actually means is that the Mongolian tögrög is undervalued against the Scottish pound (by the way what will they call it?) An hour of a skilled workers time is an hour of his time be he/she Mongolian or Scottish.

    Who is responsible for taking Scottish jobs away - well the perfidious Bank of ENGLAND that's who. The 'ald enemy' (scots)! Bankers are to blame!

  • Comment number 2.

    All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

  • Comment number 3.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 4.

  • Comment number 5.

    "....The independent watchdog for health and social care says a fifth of NHS hospitals are breaking the law, when it comes to properly feeding and treating elderly patients."

    Would that it were just the elderly. Of course, often they are the most vulnerable but across the board hospital patients, being vulnerable, in pain, in fear, confused and...........................are being let down by a box ticking, process managing inhuman system.

    Something is very rotten in the state of the NHS. And in the way we largely treat the most vulnerable in society. Most of the needed changes cost nothing - but the problem is they cannot be recorded and measured on a graph and show financial rewards.

    I am not a number............... I am a free (wo)man!

    and

    "..... reports on the new obesity strategy for England in which the government has tried to stress the importance of personal responsibility..... "

    This I suspect is a result of the 'news' today that excess weight makes arthritis more likely (to the extent of certainty) rather than an unavoidable result of ageing. I have news for Susan and the viewers. This is not news. It is just facts that many people do not want to hear.

    Sometime in the late 1980's, someone very close to me was featured in 'Jimmy's, the fly on the wall Hospital series from the St James' in Leeds telling an overweight patient requiring knee/hip replacements to return when they had lost 3 stone - no surgery (there were 4 reasons I recall why it would be delayed) until weight had been reduced.

    Would be good news if a new initiative succeeded where all else has failed. Any way to make individuals responsible once again for their own actions is to be applauded, regardless of the topic. I am not holding my breath.

  • Comment number 6.

    WHY DID 'ALLOWANCES' BECOME TERMED 'EXPENSES' IN MEDIA REPORTS?

    Was it a deliberate elision? Did fiddling 'expenses' sound more like 'ALL IN THIS TOGETHER' whereas ALLOWANCES might ring alarm bells in the ear of the have-nots?
    I was very aware that, at the outset, reporting MADE CLEAR that it was the ALLOWANCE system of Westminster that OPENLY INVITED abuse, as Margaret Thatcher had wanted to raise MP pay without the rubbish people being aware. Have I got that about right? It all adds up: one piece of chicanery covered by another - ALLOWANCES became EXPENSES by media collusion. WHO FIXES ALL THIS DECEIT? Does the ´óÏó´«Ã½ (et al) get a briefing note from Westminster - No 10 even?

    One thing is sure: it is not transparency or democracy - just hypocrisy.

    Nuff sed

  • Comment number 7.

    When is the ´óÏó´«Ã½ going to devote as much attention to the expenses "problems" of Lord Paul and Lord Taylor and Baroness Uddin as it did to white British parliamentarians...... and why is the Commission for Racial Equality looking into the ´óÏó´«Ã½`s apparently racist practices in this case?

  • Comment number 8.

    NOT JUST ABUSING PATIENTS - BLOOD RELATIVES TREATED WITH CONTEMPT (#5)

    Some recent report says we are all jolly and happy.

    I'd be a lot happier if I knew the caring brigade would let me die BEFORE going through Hell.

    Nuff sed

  • Comment number 9.

  • Comment number 10.

  • Comment number 11.

    I can see this alleged cut obesity project turning in to a neat excuse for manufacturers to cut individual portion sizes but still charge for the full original amount. Furthermore, it will probably be the case that a single portion is not quite enough for a main meal, and therefore people will be encouraged to buy two, then throw some away or eat the lot and become more obese than ever. I have always had problems controlling my weight and when Morrison's cut the size of their individual meals fro 450 to just 400g I found that I was eating an extra sandwich to compensate. I don't eat that much anyway ( only spend about 25 quid a week ) but I found that on some occasions I ate two portions of the smaller version in one meal. I've stopped buying them now anyway and now my weight is fairly stable, my main problem is that I can't get enough exercise due to my disability.

  • Comment number 12.

    INTERNAL DEVALUATION IN GREECE MEANS CLASS WAR

    Greek Austerity - Michael Hudson discusses how democracy has been subverted




    "Socialism in Europe is ultra right wing, it's fascist"

  • Comment number 13.

    Sorry brossen99 but we all haven't yet had our brains washed enough to sign up to facebook so not all of us can read this.

    Re: The food industry labeling / fat, salt and sugar content / what we are allowed to eat and constant attempts to avoid any measures to get them to come 'clean' on what is actually in our food. How far do we need to go on this one? The bottom line is that fat creates taste in food (ask any decent chef!) and sugar and salt are seasonings to further enhance taste. OK so the healthy food lobby want to force the likes of McDonalds etc to reduce anything that is unhealthy but at what cost? Totally bland, tasteless foods! A certain well known baked bean company reduced their salt, fat and sugar content years ago and the result has been totally tasteless beans (to which I add my own sugar and salt!)

    My view is simple. GIVE US THE REAL FACTS of what is in our food so that we can make a proper informed decision as to what we eat instead of the 'lower sugar' / 'healthy option' (when it isn't) or reduced fat (when we had no idea how much was their in the first place).
    The worst offenders in my view are the soft drink / cordial manufacturers who market drinks as no added sugar (but full of artificial sweeteners, some of which are known to have adverse health effects) OR 'no artificial sweeteners' which usually means the drink is full of sugar!

    Add this to the 'designed in Scotland' issue which is widespread and I challenge anyone to find one large company in this country that is the slightest bit honest!

    At the end of the day business and profit takes priority over everything else.

  • Comment number 14.

    #2 Disappeared

    That made me laugh. The day that Eric Pickles takes responsibility for his eating habits and reduces down to waist size 32, or to be fair 40, is the day I will give up smoking, drinking and probably life in general.

    What is it with this 'modern' world. People are what they are, Chief Medical Officer, Sally Davies. It's called LIFE. Everybody has their 'failings'. I wonder what are hers. It's probably something terribly daring, ha, ha. Possibly salmon with lashings of salad. Naughty!

    Was gobsmacked by:

    "Slovakia's largest opposition party, after a bit of parliamentary gamesmanship, cleared the way Wednesday for the country to endorse changes to the €440 billion ($600 billion) euro-zone bailout fund that European political leaders have deemed essential to the bloc's efforts to beat back the sovereign-debt crisis."

    That's £340 billion approx give or take a bob or two. Where does all this money come from? These are unimaginable sums. A fraction would build us new hospitals, modern schools and much needed infrastructure.

    How come the EU can just summon up these amounts? Especially after all the expenses of their committee meetings, junkets and summits full of sound and fudge, signifying nothing. The taxpayer, that's how. But it's getting a bit thin on the ground now. Eurocracy.

    Vive le difference!

  • Comment number 15.

    Ah! now we find out who was paying Liam Fox's best man Adam Werritty.

    "Financial backers linked to Israel and a private intelligence firm helped fund the travels of Liam Fox's close friend Adam Werritty, according to reports.
    The Times claims they helped channel £147,000 into a company set up by Mr Werritty, who used it to join the defence secretary on trips abroad.
    The lobbyist is due to be questioned again later as part of a probe into his relationship with the minister."



    Now which lobbyist do think will be questioned for public consumption?

  • Comment number 16.

    'Thousands of children' sexually exploited by gangs

    /news/education-15289012

    "Ms Berelowitz said that although there was a lot of anecdotal research, there was a serious lack of reliable data."

    "The issue reaches across all races and classes, said Ms Berelowitz."

    Logically contradictory statements, the second being a strange one to make when the enquiry has only jus been launched.

  • Comment number 17.

    On Radio 4's Today programme this morning, Evan Davis pushed (rather gently imo) Ms Berelowitz on the issue of Pakistani gangs being prevalent in the grooming of young white girls, even citing what Jack Straw had reportedly said about this problem last year. However, Ms Berelowitz went out of her way to say that there was no one group of males mainly repsonsible for these paractices. She said they occur all over the country and by all races/groups. She categorically said it was a universally wide problem. She then went on to say black girls are also at high risk as well.

    She seemed more concerned about the race issue than about the actual sexual exploitation of children by gangs.

    Very strange indeed. She appeared to have been well briefed in pc.

  • Comment number 18.



    "The average amount of profit being made by energy companies has risen to £125 per customer per year, from £15 in June.
    But the energy regulator Ofgem has predicted that the profit margins will fall back to about £90 next year.
    The average dual-fuel bill is now £1,345 a year following recent price rises from all the big suppliers.
    Ofgem has also confirmed it will force suppliers to simplify tariffs to make it easier to compare prices."

    Now how long have we been hearing that for?

  • Comment number 19.

    Listen to how Ian Marlee, from Ofgem, says they are planning to force suppliers to introduce simpler pricing structures - to help customers to identify the best deals.



    This is a masterclass in obfuscation and toothless excuse making…"it's not my responsibility guv!"

    Note the stressing of the importance he places on his only mandate is in ensuring the proper functioning of a free energy market (predatory capitalism?...caveat emptor).

  • Comment number 20.

    'The Care Quality Commission visited 100 hospitals, and found cause for concern'

    I'm currently AS concerned about the quality of the CQC.

    Now 2 years into a complaint on a care home that these guys were up to the necks in, and have just swatted back the latest 'we can't find anything, but then again we were too busy and underfunded to ask' attempt from the latest Ombudsman to swallow bazillions that could go to care on backside covering (badly).

    And what is the difference between a 'live' interview and any other kind when the trust in those controlling the questions and the edit suite is on par with the interviewees?

    Stressing public responsibility is quaint, when accountability across the establishment is zero.

  • Comment number 21.

    I hear this morning, that energy companies are making more money than ever out of us, not to mention loads of that profit goes abroad, (foreign owned companies).

    What is it £125 profit for each of us, or was it households, sorry not sure.

    How are they making all this profit, I thought it was going to be invested in so called "green" energy, another scam to rip money out of us.

  • Comment number 22.

    '16. At 09:09 14th Oct 2011, museV wrote:
    /news/education-15289012
    "Ms Berelowitz said that although there was a lot of anecdotal research, there was a serious lack of reliable data."
    "The issue reaches across all races and classes, said Ms Berelowitz."
    Logically contradictory statements, the second being a strange one to make when the enquiry has only just been launched.'


    This is why I like the internet.

    I learn stuff and am exposed, often for free, to aspects of issues highly paid, and often charging media fail to raise, either through incompetence or other factors.

    '18. At 09:23 14th Oct 2011, museV wrote:

    Now how long have we been hearing that for?


    Ditto.

    I wonder what Newsynighty will be 'examining' and 'discussing', and with whom, tonight?

  • Comment number 23.

    Absolutely gobsmacked by the cabinets response to oliver letwins dumping documents in park bins.

    Its ok because they were not sensitive !!!

    How do they know?

    Did they assign a security cleared secretary to pre- pack the stuff he took to the park to make sure there was nothing sensitive in it before he gave it to the guy carrying the green bag?

    Ok Ollie .. this one is ok to go in the park bin.. oops this one is of national strategic importance... nearly missed it...only 1 page long...sneaked in there little monkey !! better shred that one ollie.

    OK off you go, we have shredders and recycling bins here but if you want to just casually drop them into general waste bins in apublic park becasue you are oliver letwin and above any of that.. no problem .. off you go ollie.

    He should be sacked on the spot.

    What an absolute buffoon, compounded by an idiotic response from cabinet.

    This is gross misconduct for someone in his position end of and gross misconduct for anyone who tries to defend it.


    What a bunch of incompetent, idiots, make no wonder bankinbg and corporations like them so much as their easily manipulated apologists of choice.

  • Comment number 24.

    I don't know whether to laugh or cry, security in government, yes when it comes to telling us how they spend our money, but whatever you do don't write a letter to this man

  • Comment number 25.

    '21. At 09:40 14th Oct 2011, ecolizzy - I thought it was going to be invested in so called "green" energy, another scam to rip money out of us.

    My household is currently being inundated by solar panel advertising, via email, DM and telesales.

    So far I have seen two 'reps' (called them munchkins (I'll risk the day shift) in a previous email, and a ´óÏó´«Ã½ employee is still seriously trying to suggest this is why it was purged as I was using hostile words about a guest, as opposed to them being tetchy about public broadcast support for such schemes. Meanwhile, conflict of interest severity wise... ) and the only thing they did know about was the FIT subsidies.

    So.... a horde of bandwagon jumpers are making a quick buck based on money they get from the government, who gets this cash from whom... who gets it from whom?

    Answers on a green fuel tariff flyer...

    This was interesting:



    It's the Graun, so hopefully they will feel it is a URL that is allowed.

  • Comment number 26.

    Great modding today so far! Speedy. Keeps things 'feisty'.

  • Comment number 27.

    '24. At 09:59 14th Oct 2011, ecolizzy


    My 'least bad' basis for seeking proxy representation in 'governance' slips a further few notches.

    Any entity that still allows such as this man, Fox or Huhne near the running of this country does not deserve my support.

    And before any get tribally excited, I am well aware too of the calibre of what lurks hoping to capitalise on short memories.

  • Comment number 28.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 29.

    #28

    No it did NOT break the house rules, you just dare not print it because it is the truth put in an engaging humorous yet hard hitting way the ´óÏó´«Ã½ surrender monkeys would not want to upset the apple cart.

    You should be ashamed of yourself to support these incompetent idiots in government.

    Let me take some of the edge of for you ´óÏó´«Ã½.

    David Cameron must be the Normal Wisdom of character judgement.

    Andy Coulson

    Rebekah Brookes

    Oliver Letwin

    The defence secretary Andrew Weri..... erm i mean Dr Liam Fox.

    Yet he is allowed to run the country and we are (seemingly ´óÏó´«Ã½) NOT allowed to point out how ridiculous that state of affairs is.


    Will that do mods?

    Sanitised enough for you now?

  • Comment number 30.

    #28

    AND ANOTHER THING

    If you bounced my post 28 on the basis 'it may cause offence' what ever offence it may cause is nothing compared to the offence against the population of the UK this government represents and in such a context it is entirely reasonable and democratic to publish it.

    We have cabinet ministers wandering around public parks dropping government documents into bins like the KGB version of Santa Clause and you acuse ME of being offensive!!!

    Wake up idiot moderator.. who do you work for?


    Oliver letwin or errrm you know... the people of the Uk who pay your wages..

  • Comment number 31.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 32.

    #31

    There you go ´óÏó´«Ã½ my case is proven, you truely are apathetic institution as well.

  • Comment number 33.

    WE GOT OURSELVES ANOTHER ONE (#28 - 32)

    Another Prime Minister - of the same Westminster ilk.

    Another party-of-power - of the same Westminster ilk.

    Another government - of the same Westminster ilk.

    Another set of bizarre behaviours - of the same Westminster ilk.

    All because we have failed to:

    SPOILPARTYGAMES - DISMANTLE WESTMINSTER - INSTALL INTEGRITY

    It can be done. England has around three-and-a-half years to plan the downfall of the Westminster malaise; i.e. BEING BOUGHT WITH DIRTY MONEY at General Election.

    PRE-SELECTED CANDIDATES ARE MERE ROSETTE STAND CIPHERS - SHUN ROSETTES.

  • Comment number 34.

    May people who work in offices would like to do some of their work in a park instead. Just imagine if someone from ANY other walk of life had gone what Mr Letwin did: it would have been instant dismissal.

    And also, just imagine is a senior executive from a major company had been having sponsored meetings with freelancers and other company reps without the knowledge or approval of the CEO.

    And then politicians blatantly apply different standards to their own side than to their opponents, and think that the public is too stupid to notice?

    We should follow the example of one of Terry Pratchett's imaginary countries: "An odd quirk of the Fourecksian government is that they immediately put their politicians in jail as soon as they are elected. According to the locals, "It saves time" "

    At least we've moved on from the stupid cat stories of the Tory party conference. One can give a cat a mite too much importance!

  • Comment number 35.

    "Scandal that many MPs have no idea what they're voting on""

    A very interesting article from Caroline Lucas:

    "I've seen Members literally being physically propelled through the ‘Aye' lobbies by the whips."

  • Comment number 36.

    Why is it that everybody is quick to jump on the success of a Scottish company? The garments are designed in Scotland according to the label and most companies manufacture abroad these days. Ìý

  • Comment number 37.

    AH! SUCH HONOUR AND INTEGRITY (#35)

    I notified Caroline Lucas of the void state of this Parliament, in consequence of the Conservative Party breaking election law with the Liar Flyer



    and of 10 sitting MPs committing Misconduct in Public Office, through its distribution.

    She did not reply.

    Nuff sed

  • Comment number 38.

    35. At 12:07 14th Oct 2011, Sasha Clarkson wrote:
    "Scandal that many MPs have no idea what they're voting on""


    37. At 12:43 14th Oct 2011, barriesingleton wrote:

    She did not reply.


    No excuse for being rude, but maybe as you are not a constituent she has 'priorities'?

    On matters Whip, my MP now has another issue to address, though he's on shaky ground simply by who he calls boss and associates with.

    Because the Whip aspect cuts across my acceptance of proxy.

    I have given him mine, for my constituency, based on what he claimed in person. He then gets to vote in Parliament.

    That contract gets blown apart... there is no point.

    So if any MP has a Whip system, they don't get my vote.

    Simples.

  • Comment number 39.

    An harvard "cancer expert" -who looks about 12 years old - said if Steve Jobs had've taken conventional medicine he'd still be alive. Really! pancreatic cancer for eight years, plus his previous cancers that go way back mid 90s. What would his chances on Chemo have been I wonder? something tells me Steve Jobs lived as long as he did with cancer was because he avoided the chemo quacks.



    Workers sacked for being British:



    I've just watched the Steve Coogan video. He railed against the Daily Mail and how it panders to the fears of its readers. Maybe Coogan don't know what those fears are really like. I recall an interview with Coogan on Parkinson. He once worked at a factory after leaving school and how he sneered at the other factory workers in the canteen for reading the Sun Newspaper whilst he sat on his own reading the Guardian. It seems Coogan was already sanctimonius way back when he was a teenager. Add that to the years he worked at the Beeb ..is it any wonder he's a prat. You can be a comic genius and still be a prat you know!

  • Comment number 40.

    WESTMINSTER CITADEL DEFENCES ARE PHENOMENAL (#39)

    The MPs have a protocol that prevents engagement with the constituent of another MP.

    Not unreasonable.

    But, being HONOURABLE, they may NOT bend that protocol in the service of WILFUL BLINDNESS when informed of a serious infringement of election law.

    BUT THEY DO.

    And they have a range of other defensive mechanisms. I am probably unmatched in my knowledge of these. This is the root of Westminster's arrogance and contempt of the ordinary prole. Hence my repeated call:

    DISMANTLE WESTMINSTER - INSTALL INTEGRITY

  • Comment number 41.

    What is this story about - is it about the North Korean workers or is it about Scotland? What about the other Countries this company make sweaters for - why is Newsnight just picking on the Scottish? Let us PLEASE look at the bigger issues not the micro issues that risk weakening our economy.

  • Comment number 42.

    #25 "My household is currently being inundated by solar panel advertising, via email, DM and telesales."

    Ah Junkk, I've found the answer to the telesales kids, they say why don't you invest in solar panels, and I tell them I'm far too old for it to ever profit me, I'll be dead before they pay me anything back, they are lost for words! ; )

  • Comment number 43.

    #33 "WE GOT OURSELVES ANOTHER ONE"

    Dead right Barrie, I think I'd include the whole 650 of them!

    I'm astonished at Letwins behaviour, and then there's the little matter of Liams best friend, you couldn't make it up!

  • Comment number 44.

    #39 Unfortunately Kev I think there's nothing can be done about pancreatic cancer yet. I expect they're working on it, but it always seems to be a death sentence however positive you are.

    And as you point out Jobs survived a long time all in all.

    I'm reliably informed by someone who works with insurance policies, that men have to be very careful about their health between the ages of 52 to 65. If you've got a suspicion you're not well, go to the doctor quickly! Remember Spikes phrase, "I told them I was ill"!

  • Comment number 45.

    42. At 14:10 14th Oct 2011, ecolizzy - I tell them I'm far too old for it to ever profit me, I'll be dead before they pay me anything back, they are lost for words

    Cursed rather with a personal and professional eye to making the future a bit better for all kids, including my own, I am persevering on matters renewable past my own best by date.

    Part planet, part paternal. The 'value' 'should' be transferable...Ìýif the enviROI adds up. That's a measure I created that accepts it may not 'make' money, but can contribute positively to the overall GHG situation. There is also a lower limit, below which money is being poured in a green hole, when it could be more usefully directed elsewhere.

    Oddly, that seems to be the one most gov policy is focussed on, ably supported by our science and engineering-bereft, agenda-guided media.

    Not so keen on wind therefore. Still looking at solar, if ROI and enviROI add up. Which, without the FIT, they don't.

    '44. At 14:18 14th Oct 2011, ecolizzy -
    I'm reliably informed by someone who works with insurance policies, that men have to be very careful about their health between the ages of 52 to 65.


    At 55, and with a 'scare' last year that took the NHS a week in hospital to get from heart attack through a hiatus hernia to possible pulmonary embolism to 'probably pleurisy', and a very eye-opening time in an elder ward, I know you're right but dread the consequences.

    With a family history I keep asking about checks for prostate issues, but the doctor simply tells me it's not worth it.

    Between the 'worried well' dismissals and the 'don't risk checking' warnings, I do wonder if it's time to go private, in the same way we had to move our kids' education. Paying on top whilst still paying for a service I don't dare use is frustrating, if the unique ´óÏó´«Ã½ antennae can cope with that notion.

    The 'ideal' too often spun by those more motivated by dogma than duty can be less credible than the reality.

  • Comment number 46.

    Fired for being British!

  • Comment number 47.

    ...and Liam Fox has gone

  • Comment number 48.

    #45 I'm not a climate change denyer Junkk, but I don't think the little things we do will make much difference in reality. I think it's just a natural trend, and we will have to learn to live with it, or die. But on the other hand we could all be more careful with the energy we use, like sitting on a computer, writing mindless thoughts on a blog! ; )

    The worst crime in IMHO is the growing population, the world can't sustain comfortably so many people. My sister came up with a good control on it, one I'm sure the poorer women of the world would appreciate. Every time the woman has a baby, fit her with a birth control implant, the poor woman wouldn't get pregnant for 3 years, which would give her a break, and give the baby just born a good chance of a good life. There you are Bill Gates, start pouring your money into that!

    You can insist on a PSA test Junkk, but be wary of the results, read a lot, and then talk to your male friends about your results, men get a bad deal often out of the NHS.

  • Comment number 49.

    #46 I can tell you of a local case of why did the english worker leave Mistress.

    The local garage was bought by some Asians, suddenly the english workers left, and were replaced with non english speaking asians, a coincidence or what?

  • Comment number 50.

    Friday 14 October 2011

    'Plus David Grossman will have the latest on what has been happening in Westminster and whether the continuing drip, drip of stories is making Liam Fox's position increasingly untenable.'

    Fox has just resigned.

  • Comment number 51.

    WESTMINSTER WEASELS (#37)

    I have emailed a few germane points to Caroline Lucas (including the Liar flyer) in response to her paper on Parliamentary reform. NO ENGAGEMENT WITH ME WAS REQUESTED.

    I have received the usual "we need your address to deal with the matter properly".

    Au contraire - they need it to pull the protocol scam, as described in my #40 above.

    You are SOOO right Lizzy. 650 MPs - and not ONE with honour.

    I have deleted the reply from Caroline Lucas; honour is as honour does.

  • Comment number 52.

    '48. At 16:27 14th Oct 2011, ecolizzy wrote:
    #45 I'm not a climate change denyer Junkk, but I don't think the little things we do will make much difference in reality.


    Never thought you were. Healthily sceptical maybe?

    And denying the climate changes seems one of the sillier rallying cries deployed by those curiously uncurious on matters science and engineering.

    I have to respectfully disagree on little things, as like journeys of thousands of miles those steps can add up.

    I am highly 'enviro', but equally take a very chilled approach to things, even in areas green that are my passions.

    Persuade by example is as far as I go in imposition, and even then usually by osmosis than flag-waving. Hence my getting in hot water with the green activist fraternity when not appreciating the 'or else' approaches of those 'who know better'.

    I am also pragmatic. Stone age revisionism is silly, and the most ardent advocates always founder on the rocks of their own hypocrisy. Decrying those seeking to travel the world to experience as much as they can in a 4 score and 10 window cuts little ice when composed on the latest iPad from often very clement locations paid for by others.

    While some decisions made here are a nod to green, more often it's simply a matter of reducing waste and improving efficiencies, and often that saves £.

    Hence my Mac mini is very unthirsty and I telecommute, so staying in touch via a connection does slurp server juice, but not as much as popping hither and thither if not really essential. Swings & roundabouts.

    Little here do I find mindless, and often worthwhile to expand my horizons from in front of a screen.

    Population is a huge issue, but so charged with passions and preconceptions (excuse the almost pun) I tend to steer clear of discussing as the reward/effort ratio is so low to not warrant getting into that one. Cowardly I know, but I leave it to others. Sadly, even those at the top seem equally less inclined to go near it, preferring plastic bag campaigns to wondering why the NHS is at bursting point.

    The PSA test has a pretty poor reputation for reliability, and I have heard the view that it can lead to things worse than simply keeping calm and carrying on.

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