大象传媒

Message 2 - Anak Bandung!!

Posted on: 01 July 2004 by anak-bandung

Dear Josephine
Just discovered your reaction to my mother's stories. Look forward having a chat with you after the 4th.
I went back together with my mum in 1972, just for a visit. I had hoped to have some hidden memories bubble up, instigated by some sounds or smells, but none were forthcoming. I must say I felt a little sad about that.
I have an idea that quite a few memories must have been surpressed - must have seen some awful things, and some do reveal them in dreams sometimes, such as the latrines - I was present when mum disappeared into the cess-pit and was understandably hysterical.
We'll talk a bit more when you are back
Rob

Message 3 - Anak Bandung!!

Posted on: 01 July 2004 by ODYSSEY

Rob, I am looking forward to our chat.
I had a chance to re- visit my old hunting grounds,but I thought I would'nt recognise it and be very diappointed.
A niece(3x times removed??)went to Bandoeng.The way she described it was just what I was afraid of.So I am glad I did not go.TOT ZIENS,Josephine.

Message 4 - old hunting grounds

Posted on: 03 July 2004 by anak-bandung

According to my mum, with whom I did return in 1979, not a lot had changed then. We had a very small group (about 12) and she sat up front and the whole company was living her memories with her: 'o look, my old school; o, there is my father's bookstore. O my God, it still IS a bookstore'
That latter was really impressive, as the store had not changed one iota inside, still the same glass vitrines, and in the office hung (great emotion) a large photograph of the main street with her father as large as life on his bike.
We all cried that day.
Later the visit to the war graves where I witnesed her laying a flower at each cross bearing a name in my dad's squadron - a very poignent moment. A whole bunch of flowers was used! My dad's body was never found, but he and many others is represented by a broken propeller at the cemetory in Bandung.
Since that visit there has been a gradual dominance of muslim religion over any christians,making their lives extremely difficult. Also tourism has finally fed the greed of those lovely people, who so spontaneously and without thinking of gain would welcome you. That visit in 1979 was absolutely magic to me. It also was some kind of catharsis for my mother. After that visit she has been back twice, but saw slowly a change setting in and would not want to return anymore. Shame that.
However, the visit had done some good in so far that her terrible nightmares diminished somewhat.

It certainly was a first for me reading how she actually witnessed my dad's plane coming down. She had never spoken to me before about that, only that he was lost and never found. As a child I always had phantasies of him suddenly regaining his memory and was waiting for that knock on the door. Totally ignoring the chaos that would cause, as mum had by then remarried and I had two other siblings! But a 14-year old can dream!

Josephine, so you went back there after the war to help out as a nurse?
That must have been very traumatic for you as well. Or was it the other way around. I am slightly confused at the moment. Must have a good read again of all your stories!

Speak to you soon
Rob

Message 5 - old hunting grounds

Posted on: 04 July 2004 by ODYSSEY

Hello Rob,I had a heck of a time finding you again.I put in your ID #,did not go.But I finally got you.It is about 6 p.m. in England?It is s09.09 here.Do you talk dutch?or did you forget it?Well, since we use this forum to communicate we might as well do it in english. Did you have a chance to find my warstories?
I told you,I think, that I was born also in Bandoeng.My parents went to the"Colonies'post WW1. My father had a degree in chemistry and worked in the lab of the "Kinine Fabriek"in Bandoeng.We ,4 kids, were born in Bandoeng.The youngest in Borromaeus Ziekenhuis, your mother must have known.
I took care of concentration camp victims in what was a Military Hosp. opened up for that reason.
The Indonesians took out everything that wasn't screwed down(.I flew from Australia in a B 25 bomber:I had a choice seat in the turret under the pilot.When we flew over Borneo the green vegetation looked like Boerenkool.Ever had that?)When we landed in Kemajoran we were shot at by the "Peloppors",Sukarno's people.
The women I took care of were from" Camp Tjideng".Some had lost any vestige of humanity.
I remember 3 women:The pat. in the middlle was on the verge of dying.She had a silver spoon and an embroiderd tablecloth saved.Her neighbours were bickering who would get what before she was dead.
We had to put them on strict diets.A normal portion food would have killed them.We did not have anythig to serve them the pitifull portions.We used our mess tins and cleaned them between patients.Some of these women took their anger out at us.Called us all sort of names and threw the mess tin in at us accusing us of eating their food.You wrote that the Tjideng camp was a camp for punishment.That must have been horrendous,knowing how the Japs treated you guys.
To work with those patients was very stressfull.
If you did not find my stories:a short update on how I ended up in Australia.My family-my father was dead-lived in the province Limburg.I worked in a hospital in N. Brabant.I got a message that my family was bombed and were dead.You have to read my stories how I signed up for the Dutch Indies.As a child in Bandoeng life was fantastic:In the morning we walked to school .We came home in a deleman, had lunch and had to go to our room till teatime.We went to many vacations in the mountains where it was cool and where we ,at times wore a wool sweater.I always wanted to go back.I had a chance to sign up as a nurse for the D-In.and did so.We went via London ,Wolverhampton.boarded a troopship in Liverpool on VE DAY and sailed via the Panama Canal to Sydney.We waited till the Japs capitulated and were flown to Batavia.
I had signed up for the duration of the war+ 6 months.The first 5o girls liberated by the Allied signed up to go to ,eventually Java.There were not many R.N.'s
most were secretaries etc.The R.N.'s were divided in 2 groups:one to work with the civil servants, the other as military nurses.I ended upin the miltary group.No choice.
So, now you know a liitle more about me.At present I live in the NW of the USA,have 3 sons,all married.My husband died here.(he was in the underground in Holland, but I never met him till the underground people formed a batallion to fight Sukarno.)
I loved the stories about your mother.Too little is known about what happened in the Far East as far as the mil. battles go and what happened to the people living there.I hope many will read the stories you wrote .
This is going to be all for today.I am sure we will write each other more.So long Rob,tell me something about you.Josephine.

Message 6 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 04 July 2004 by anak-bandung

Hi Josephine,
You were spot on with the time difference between us. I was just busy reading your post when my husband Jack came to warn me it was getting late and he was feeling hungry (it was by then half seven and I had not realised the time). We had been to a party and come home at half two in the morning, so the whole day seem to have shifted along.
.....en natuurlijk spreek ik nog steeds Nederlands. Ik zou me diep schamen als dat niet het geval zou zijn. Ik heb zelfs 18 jaar hier op de avondschool Nederlandse les gegeven...
I do find though that my Dutch has simplified over the almost 40 years I have been living in the UK, as I only speak it when I go home for a holiday or when they come to me.
I was 24 when I married Jack after a fortnightly to-ing ad fro-ing across the English Channel for half a year: me once every month on half fare to Britain (I worked with the Dutch railways then) and Jack every month by thumb and ferry to me.
We married in Holland, but not before I attended court together with my mum, grandmother and two friends of hers who had been there when I was born. They had to swear to the Judge that the person sitting (not in the dock) overthere was indeed me and I received then a acknowledgement of birth (the Japanese never issued a birth certificate). I now existed (hurray!) and could get married. My mother was congratulated by the judge on producing such a bouncing baby and presented her with a pair of baby socks. When we left the court, people looked rather strange at us, as we were in such a convivial mood instead of cowed or whatever your demeanor should be at a court!
I have led rather a 'dull' life compared with you - but I am not complaining. I am sure that a lot of your experience you would have been gladly without!
Before and after having two daughters, I had several jobs, such as secretary, managing a card and gift shop and doing the buying as well (great fun), then from doctor's receptionist to under-management ar the same surgery until I retired two years ago. During that time I taught Dutch as well until I got fed up with all the bureaucracy and I started to learn modern Greek for five years - thoroughly enjoyed that challenge. When I retired I started to study biology at the Open University - not really to get a degree, but for pure enjoyment and to keep the grey cells active. I am also researching our very complicated family tree - to leave for my daughters.
Jack is also retired and we just potter along together.
My eldest daughter lives in the UK and is a forensic scientist and the youngest lives in Holland with her partner.
That is us in a nutshell.

Your childhood must have been as idyllic as my mother's. In her memories she describes delightful stories of her childhood.
Why did your parents return to Holland?

Camp Tjideng! Although no internee camp has been dreadful, apparently Kampong Makassar was one of the two extremes: an Eden with lots of fruit and vegetables for our Japs and was the only work camp apparently; then the other extreme' Tjideng' where we luckily never have been. The few women leaders from Kampong Makassar had come from Tjideng and were therefore 'trained' to obey the Jap to the letter and promptly. They had learned in that camp that, should only 1 person rebel, the entire camp would be punished relentlessly and in the most horrific fashion.
Some of this can be read in the book 'Het verbluffende kamp' by Ko Luijckx. The Dutch spelling in the book is still so oldfashioned - with double vowels where now-a-days we would use one, and 'sch' instead of just an 's'. As the Dutch never put a date of publication in their books, I can't tell when it was published, but I guess soon after the war. I expect the publishing house no longer exists either. However, the book is fascinating reading and describes what went on in camp Kampong Makassar.

I think I'd better shut up now. It is becoming a volume otherwise.
Tot schrijfs
Rob

Message 7 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 07 July 2004 by ODYSSEY

Rob,Ik vond net je lang epistel,heel veel dank.I think I'd better continue in english.I was really glad to hear from you.I'll answer your letter in more detail later.
I am somewhat short on time.
Who ever would have thought to find somebody who also comes from the former "colonies" via the 大象传媒.My parents went back to Holland as my father became co-director of the Kinine fabriek in Maarssen.We brought a baboe with us:Baboe Kuwira ,a so called" Zee baboe" used to travel between Java and Holland.She wanted to be paid in gold coins.She sewed those in her "kutang"-i.e. bra-pretty smart as it was safer than under her pillow.My youngest sister learned to walk in Montreux and baboe took care of her.:OLD KOLONIALISTS we were called.
I better quit before I keep on writing.Tot straks ,Josephine.

Message 8 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 07 July 2004 by anak-bandung

Just read your reply - look forward to the rest. By reading my previous 'volume' I noticed I made a typo. I wrote: 'Camp Tjideng! Although no internee camp has been dreadful,' Of course it should read... although ecah internee camp has been dreadful...

I know the smell of the kinine fabriek well! My mother and my step-fathere settled in Utrecht where I lived until I married and my mother still lives there!

The 'kutang' suddenly threw up a small memory whenh mum and I went back for a visit in '79. We were in Bali and mum was interested in some sarong or other. The stall holder said she would like to barter it for mum's kutang, who she reckoned was her size (they both had quite a bit to show) and amongst the slender Balinese that size was probably difficult to get hold of. Mum promised her she would give it to her when we were leaving - until then she needed it herself!
tabeh!
Rob

Message 9 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 10 July 2004 by ODYSSEY

Hello Rob, We are going gangbusters with our stories I knew what you meant about
Camp Tjdeng: took only 2 braincellst to figure it out.
Yes, the smell of the Kinine fabriek was terrible when a certain wind blew: an East wind?One can't remember a smell only that it was good or bad.We used to live in Maarssen when we returned to Holland.The house's name was "Valuas" The Giant who built Venlo. We had to go to the school there and the nuns beat you with a ruler if you did something wrong.Since then I have been allergic to nuns.I had to learn also to darn socks for Pete's sake and "maassen". Your mam will know what that is. Do you know that when you answer a letter you can read what the other person wrote by scrolling down /or up the blue bar at the right side of the page.That way it is easier to know what you want to answer.Bartering with kutang:Fine,.Did it work??
Your mam still lives in Utrecht? my nephew and niece,children of my youngest sister live in Utrecht,Erik is an M.D. and Dani毛lle is nurse anaesthesist in the Openheart afdeling of het Kinderziekenhuis I think.But several hospitals fused and I only know that the result is that the Hospitals are not what they used to be:Too many managers who know beans about medicine but still will toot their horn and do as if they know everything and have constant meetings to prove how important they are.Politics my dear.Erik has something to do with solving problems all over Holland of patients who have respiratory problems:" Beademings "something or other I was in Holland last year,but they come home in the weekend and then I see them.I hope it isn't too confusing for you.
You are sound asleep: slamat tidoer. till the next instalment. Josephine.

Message 10 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 10 July 2004 by anak-bandung

Well Josephine,
who is busy 'boh-boh'ing now? It must be...oh, about 2 in the morning for you, unless you are one of those nightowls. 'Ga maar boh-boh' was what mum always used to say to me when she wanted me to go and sleep.
Yes, duh! I know all about the scroll bar - what made you think I didn't?
Talking about stinks - did 'De Weduwe', the glue factory reach as far as Maarsen in right wind conditions? Now, the kinine factory was fragrant compared to that. I remember one hot summer when there was a plague of blue bottles in Utrecht due to that awful factory and the windows were encrusted with them - and we lived near the town centre and all!
Mum still lives, or is supposed to live, at the Oudenoord. She is in the nursing home Rosendael with a hip replacement that went wrong and will not be able to return to her home again. We are now looking for a care home she likes. She is very sensitive to atmosphere and knows immediately, when she steps over the threshhold, whether a house is 'happy' or not.
She also firmly believes in 'guna-guna' having experienced it in Bandung when a waringin tree was removed from their garden at the request of her father who wanted to grow dahlias, and she and her brother stole the delicious offerings. The next day it was raining 'sirih pruimen' (in case you can't remember what that is: a leaf rolled around some chalk and a betel nut and chewed by the natives like chewing tobacco, making their saliva all red) clattering against the door and in the corridors. The next day the house was bombarded by stones. Although the house was surrounded by police after the first event, nobody saw a things and could explain what had happened.
Her babu, who was very 'takut' (afraid) moaned that the ghost in the waringin were upset by the desecration. Mam and her brother were then terrified!
The result was the whole family moved house!
Is the house in Maarssen still there? If so I will go and have a look for you next time I am in Holland.
I don't have to ask my mother what 'masen' is. I have done it myself, and quite well, I must add. Until the socks became nylon and it was no longer useful to spend time and energy on it. Mam used to 'maas' the whole squadron's socks, but refused to do the 'dikke knollen', until a few slipped through again and she used to applique a lovely flower pattern or a check pattern on the offending heels. This was discovered by the Wing Commander one day when they were polishing the wings and had to stand on them without their shoes. He came and complimented my mother for looking after the boys so well!
Well, I'd better finish again. What you think, are we taking up too much space here on this site? I can always set up an email address and we could chat through there, if you like?
tabeh again
Rob
p.s. the 'kutang' was exchanged for a lovely sarong - both women happy (mum still had a spare one to wear home)She also still has the sarong!

Message 11 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 10 July 2004 by ODYSSEY

Sunday,2 p.m.Rob thanks for your soerat.Hoera for boh-boh.I probably was not boh-boh:I used to be a nightowl but not anymore, I did not know about the scrollbar till Frank told me.I have an iMac,not a PC.I do not lke Micro soft. Outlook express let all my e-mail disappear twice.You problably say it must have been:your own fault.Who knows,but I use Safari now:Knock on wood,No problems.I am not a computer xpert.Ny son gave me his old iMac and it was sink or swim:no classes for iMac owners.As long as I can write,read the newspapers from Europe.get jokes from my son and pictures I'm not complaining.Just before I retired from Nsing our hospital installed computers,so I never really learned the ropes.The "Weduwe"???where was that.?A glue factory must have stunk to hi heaven. What are blue bottles??Bugs??
How sad that your mum broke her hip and had a bum job with the repair.I think it is gift to feel the atmosphre of a house or feel what people are like.Sixth sense??I have no experience with guna -guna,but I heard quite some interesting stories about "a" g.g in Indi茅 whose daughter was involved with it.Chopping down a waringin tree is not such a good idea.I was always told that it was a place for ghosts.
I know what sirih pruimen is and takut is also a word I know.When I went via Australia to Batavia and had to help set up the 800 bed Military Hospital I had to learn the native language again, also if I wanted to find out what the complaints of the patients were.It was amazing how the sounds still must have been in my brain from childhood,as I picked it up fairly fast and with the proper pronunciation not `氓la hollands.
As far as the house in Maarssen is concerned:It must still be there At Kerkweg 19.After my father died we moved to Venlo where he was
buried.Our house was used as a convent after we left,a wall was built around it I was told.We had beatifull wild chestnut trees around it and a sloot between our house and the meadow -with cows-belonging to Boer van Eck.That part is full of houses I am told.
What an invetive mother who closed "de knollen" with appliqu茅s.There is a french way of sewing the knollen toetoep.My granddaughter was very intrigued when I showed her how to darn socks: "Why don't you throw them away?"We can take as much space writing as we want.If they throw us out , we can e-mail.Tot de volgenede.J.

Message 12 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 10 July 2004 by ODYSSEY

Sunday,2 p.m.Rob thanks for your soerat.Hoera for boh-boh.I probably was not boh-boh:I used to be a nightowl but not anymore, I did not know about the scrollbar till Frank told me.I have an iMac,not a PC.I do not lke Micro soft. Outlook express let all my e-mail disappear twice.You problably say it must have been:your own fault.Who knows,but I use Safari now:Knock on wood,No problems.I am not a computer xpert.Ny son gave me his old iMac and it was sink or swim:no classes for iMac owners.As long as I can write,read the newspapers from Europe.get jokes from my son and pictures I'm not complaining.Just before I retired from Nsing our hospital installed computers,so I never really learned the ropes.The "Weduwe"???where was that.?A glue factory must have stunk to hi heaven. What are blue bottles??Bugs??
How sad that your mum broke her hip and had a bum job with the repair.I think it is gift to feel the atmosphre of a house or feel what people are like.Sixth sense??I have no experience with guna -guna,but I heard quite some interesting stories about a g.g in Indi茅 whose daughter was involved with it.Chopping down a waringin tree is not such a good idea.I was always told that it was a place for ghosts.
I know what sirih pruimen is and takut is also a word I know.When I went via Australia to Batavia and had to help set up the 800 bed Military Hospital I had to learn the native language again, also if I wanted to find out what the complaints of the patients were.It was amazing how the sounds still must have been in my brain from childhood,as I picked it up fairly fast and with the proper pronunciation not `氓la hollands.
As far as the house in Maarssen is concerned:It must still be there At Kerkweg 19.After my father died we moved to Venlo where he was
buried.Our house was used as a convent after we left,a wall was built around it I was told.We had beatifull wild chestnut trees around it and a sloot between our house and the meadow -with cows-belonging to Boer van Eck.That part is full of houses I am told.
What an invetive mother who closed "de knollen" with appliqu茅s.There is a french way of sewing the knollen toetoep.My granddaughter was very intrigued when I showed her how to darn socks: "Why don't you throw them away?"We can take as much space writing as we want.If they throw us out , we can e-mail.Tot de volgenede.J.

Message 13 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 10 July 2004 by ODYSSEY

Sunday,2 p.m.Rob thanks for your soerat.Hoera for boh-boh.I probably was not boh-boh:I used to be a nightowl but not anymore, I did not know about the scrollbar till Frank told me.I have an iMac,not a PC.I do not lke Micro soft. Outlook express let all my e-mail disappear twice.You problably say it must have been:your own fault.Who knows,but I use Safari now:Knock on wood,No problems.I am not a computer xpert.Ny son gave me his old iMac and it was sink or swim:no classes for iMac owners.As long as I can write,read the newspapers from Europe.get jokes from my son and pictures I'm not complaining.Just before I retired from Nsing our hospital installed computers,so I never really learned the ropes.The "Weduwe"???where was that.?A glue factory must have stunk to hi heaven. What are blue bottles??Bugs??
How sad that your mum broke her hip and had a bum job with the repair.I think it is gift to feel the atmosphre of a house or feel what people are like.Sixth sense??I have no experience with guna -guna,but I heard quite some interesting stories about a g.g in Indi茅 whose daughter was involved with it.Chopping down a waringin tree is not such a good idea.I was always told that it was a place for ghosts.
I know what sirih pruimen is and takut is also a word I know.When I went via Australia to Batavia and had to help set up the 800 bed Military Hospital I had to learn the native language again, also if I wanted to find out what the complaints of the patients were.It was amazing how the sounds still must have been in my brain from childhood,as I picked it up fairly fast and with the proper pronunciation not 脿la hollands.
As far as the house in Maarssen is concerned:It must still be there At Kerkweg 19.After my father died we moved to Venlo where he was
buried.Our house was used as a convent after we left,a wall was built around it I was told.We had beatifull wild chestnut trees around it and a sloot between our house and the meadow -with cows-belonging to Boer van Eck.That part is full of houses I am told.
What an invetive mother who closed "de knollen" with appliqu茅s.There is a french way of sewing the knollen toetoep.My granddaughter was very intrigued when I showed her how to darn socks: "Why don't you throw them away?"We can take as much space writing as we want.If they throw us out , we can e-mail.Tot de volgenede.J.

Message 14 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 10 July 2004 by ODYSSEY

Sunday,2 p.m.Rob thanks for your soerat.Hoera for boh-boh.I probably was not boh-boh:I used to be a nightowl but not anymore, I did not know about the scrollbar till Frank told me.I have an iMac,not a PC.I do not lke Micro soft. Outlook express let all my e-mail disappear twice.You problably say it must have been:your own fault.Who knows,but I use Safari now:Knock on wood,No problems.I am not a computer xpert.My son gave me his old iMac and it was sink or swim:no classes for iMac owners.As long as I can write,read the newspapers from Europe.get jokes from my sons and pictures I'm not complaining.Just before I retired from Nsing our hospital installed computers,so I never really learned the ropes.The "Weduwe"???where was that.?A glue factory must have stunk to hi heaven. What are blue bottles??Bugs??
How sad that your mum broke her hip and had a bum job with the repair.I think it is gift to feel the atmosphre of a house or feel what people are like.Sixth sense??I have no experience with guna -guna,but I heard quite some interesting stories about a g.g in Indi茅 whose daughter was involved with it.Chopping down a waringin tree is not such a good idea.I was always told that it was a place for ghosts.
I know what sirih pruimen is and takut is also a word I know.When I went via Australia to Batavia and had to help set up the 800 bed Military Hospital I had to learn the native language again, also if I wanted to find out what the complaints of the patients were.It was amazing how the sounds still must have been in my brain from childhood,as I picked it up fairly fast and with the proper pronunciation not 脿la hollands.
As far as the house in Maarssen is concerned:It must still be there At Kerkweg 19.After my father died we moved to Venlo where he was
buried.Our house was used as a convent after we left,a wall was built around it I was told.We had beatifull wild chestnut trees around it and a sloot between our house and the meadow -with cows-belonging to Boer van Eck.That part is full of houses I am told.
What an invetive mother who closed "de knollen" with appliqu茅s.There is a french way of sewing the knollen toetoep.My granddaughter was very intrigued when I showed her how to darn socks: "Why don't you throw them away?"We can take as much space writing as we want.If they throw us out , we can e-mail.Tot de volgenede.J.

Message 15 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 10 July 2004 by ODYSSEY

Sunday,2 p.m.Rob thanks for your soerat.Hoera for boh-boh.I probably was not boh-boh:I used to be a nightowl but not anymore, I did not know about the scrollbar till Frank told me.I have an iMac,not a PC.I do not lke Micro soft. Outlook express let all my e-mail disappear twice.You problably say it must have been your own fault.Who knows,but I use Safari now:Knock on wood,No problems.I am not a computer xpert.My son gave me his old iMac and it was sink or swim:no classes for iMac owners.As long as I can write,read the newspapers from Europe.get jokes from my sons and pictures I'm not complaining.Just before I retired from Nsing our hospital installed computers,so I never really learned the ropes.The "Weduwe"???where was that.?A glue factory must have stunk to hi heaven. What are blue bottles??Bugs??
How sad that your mum broke her hip and had a bum job with the repair.I think it is gift to feel the atmosphre of a house or feel what people are like.Sixth sense??I have no experience with guna -guna,but I heard quite some interesting stories about a g.g in Indi茅 whose daughter was involved with it.Chopping down a waringin tree is not such a good idea.I was always told that it was a place for ghosts.
I know what sirih pruimen is and takut is also a word I know.When I went via Australia to Batavia and had to help set up the 800 bed Military Hospital I had to learn the native language again, also if I wanted to find out what the complaints of the patients were.It was amazing how the sounds still must have been in my brain from childhood,as I picked it up fairly fast and with the proper pronunciation not 脿la hollands.
As far as the house in Maarssen is concerned:It must still be there At Kerkweg 19.After my father died we moved to Venlo where he was
buried.Our house was used as a convent after we left,a wall was built around it I was told.We had beatifull wild chestnut trees around it and a sloot between our house and the meadow -with cows-belonging to Boer van Eck.That part is full of houses I am told.
What an invetive mother who closed "de knollen" with appliqu茅s.There is a french way of sewing the knollen toetoep.My granddaughter was very intrigued when I showed her how to darn socks: "Why don't you throw them away?"We can take as much space writing as we want.If they throw us out , we can e-mail.Tot de volgenede.J.

Message 16 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 10 July 2004 by ODYSSEY

Sunday,2 p.m.Rob thanks for your soerat.Hoera for boh-boh.I probably was not boh-boh:I used to be a nightowl but not anymore, I did not know about the scrollbar till Frank told me.I have an iMac,not a PC.I do not lke Micro soft. Outlook express let all my e-mail disappear twice.You problably say it must have been your own fault.Who knows,but I use Safari now:Knock on wood:,No problems.I am not a computer xpert.My son gave me his old iMac and it was sink or swim:no classes for iMac owners.As long as I can write,read the newspapers from Europe,get jokes from my sons and pictures I'm not complaining.Just before I retired from Nsing our hospital installed computers,so I never really learned the ropes.The "Weduwe"???where was that.?A glue factory must have stunk to hi heaven. What are blue bottles??Bugs??
How sad that your mum broke her hip and had a bum job with the repair.I think it is a gift to feel the atmosphre of a house or feel what people are like.Sixth sense??I have no experience with guna -guna,but I heard quite some interesting stories about a g.g in Indi茅 whose daughter was involved with it.Chopping down a waringin tree is not such a good idea.I was always told that it was a place for ghosts.
I know what sirih pruimen is and takut is also a word I know.When I went via Australia to Batavia and had to help set up the 800 bed Military Hospital I had to learn the native language again, also if I wanted to find out what the complaints of the patients were.It was amazing how the sounds still must have been in my brain from childhood,as I picked it up fairly fast and with the proper pronunciation not 脿la hollands.
As far as the house in Maarssen is concerned:It must still be there At Kerkweg 19.After my father died we moved to Venlo where he was
buried.Our house was used as a convent after we leftA wall was built around it I was told.We had beatifull wild chestnut trees around it and a sloot between our house and the meadow -with cows-belonging to Boer van Eck.That part is full of houses now I am told.
What an invetive mother who closed "de knollen" with appliqu茅s.There is a french way of sewing the knollen toetoep.My granddaughter was very intrigued when I showed her how to darn socks: "Why don't you throw them away?"We can take as much space writing as we want.If they throw us out , we can e-mail.Tot de volgenede.J.

Message 17 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 10 July 2004 by anak-bandung

Josephine, just before I will go boh-boh (it's 11.30) a quick reply.
FYI: bluebottles are those horrible bluey-green flies you definitely do not want landing on your sandwich!
The Weduwe has long since gone, thank God, and was somewhere close to the Rooie Brug (near the red light district at the Vecht).
By the way, I've set up an email address. You use my pseudonym here with an underscore sign instead of the hyphen and is at hotmail puntje com, begrijp je?
Tomorrow we are hoping to go to a gamelan workshop followed by some proper gamelan music. We have our yearly festival, taking a fortnight, here and the last two days is taken up by music from all over the world 'The Rhythm of the World'. The guys playing the gamelan are from Sumatra. Should be interesting, hopefully we can get in.
Welterusten
Rob

Message 18 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 11 July 2004 by ODYSSEY

Goeie morgen Rob.You better write your e mail address as I am supposed to write it,if that is ok with you.You run a chance that lots of people will use it and I am not keen on that at all.I have finally gotten rid of" junk" mail. i.e. mail from people I am not imterested in at all.
Any problem with using this site??When I wrote my answers to Frank he told me that some answers ran into >100 . Soooo....Let me know.J.

Message 19 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 11 July 2004 by anak-bandung

Hi Josephine
Had a most amazing afternoon today. I wrote about the gamelan performance we were going to attend. Unfortunately we were not able to take part in the gamelan workshop itself, they only wanted 15 people and before I could even get up the 15 were already upfront, so we just listened. Very interesting though. It appears we have gamelan teaching practically on our doorstep. Unfortunately it is quite a bit of money per hour, otherwise I might have had a go, but being a pensioner now (still can't quite get use to that!)it is a bit much to fork out every week, plus the commitment. Shame that. However, we spent a nice afternoon listening to the real thing afterwards.
Aren't you able to puzzle out the address I gave in the previous post?It's ready if you want to give it a try. It is not the one I regularly use anyway, I specially created it. I could always scrub it after giving you my regular one.
How long have you been living in the USA now? Is it a nice part of the country?
Did I understand correct from a previous post from you that you were having your nephew Eric over this weekend? If so, say hello from one ex-Utrecht bewoner.
tabeh
Rob

Message 20 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 11 July 2004 by ODYSSEY

Sunday,11 july 3.53 PDT.Just found your note about the gamelan experience.I wonder why it is so expensive?To make it more attractive?Beats me.
I know these green blue flies:We called them horse flies,They could sting too.
No, I couldn't figure out your e-mail address.I am weary to use it as I had bad experiences.
I have been living in the US since 1956 after Sukarno kicked the dutch out.My husband worked for 150 y. old business firm in Batavia: a British Firm.After we got kicked out-my husband was an"O.V. W."'er-Know what that is??- a member of a batallion put together by underground people of the area where he lived.
We could have been transferred to Rhodesia -glad we did not go there- Hong Kong(british first!) Singapore ( british first too)A'dam and London.We did not want to live in Holland and England was not such a nice place to re-establish one self in those years.We had American friends who suggested we go to the USA.,we knew only from the Sat.Eve. Post.
The culture shock was horrendous even after having travelled extensively all over .But Holland peolple are the best in emigration we were told.Presently I live in the NW of the US.Beautifull country, a climate as Holland more or less,plenty of water for sailing,lots of evergreen trees, nice people.Not like the deep south and several states I will not mention.No, Erik is in Holland and goes to see his family in the weekends, where I saw him often last year.
Time for a cup of tea, slamat tidoer for you.J.

Message 21 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 12 July 2004 by anak-bandung

Josephine
We Dutch are such an adaptable race, we can settle everywhere without any difficulty. Compared to other nationalities we do not need to group together, we blend in, easily learn another language, absorb other cultures and keep our own intact. I can imagine though it must have been a shock at first for you. Didn't you both ever contemplate Australia or New Zealand? That would have been my choice, especially New Zealand. I had very little problems though settling in the UK as the people here are very much like the Dutch, although a bit more reserved and not quite so gregarious. We Dutch mean it when we say to someone: come and see me some time. You expect them to pop round, but here you have to spell it out: day and time, otherwise noone will come.
It did take me by surprise when I just lived there, when I asked someone over for 'a cup of tea' - thinking Dutch of course, around 3.30-ish for exactly that and a biscuit or two. To my horror (as I was not prepared for that!) she arrived with two children at 4.30 and expected 'tea' - the full works! I can't remember what made me suddenly realise what she took as for granted: to be fed. My brain racing I remembered some tins and various other things I had in my store cupboard for special occasions, which were duly dug up!
I have become more English now and am also no longer surprised not to have people just pop in on your birthday. That spontanuity I missed very much in the beginning, now I am all for a quieter life!
Like today, I am one year older and will celebrate that together with my Jack in a Thai restaurant (no good Malay restaurant nearby alas). My eldest is busy with her work and cannot be there unfortunately, and the youngest is in Italy on holiday. Had some cards and some emails, and that suits me fine now.
What I do miss and I usually gorge myself on whenever I pop over to Holland is the 'zoute haring', especially the 'Hollandse Nieuwe'.

Blue bottles are not like horseflies, though. They do not sting, at least the European variety does not. They evolve from eggs laid in meat (food or cadavers, they aren't fussy)and make an awfully irritating buzzing noise when trapped in the room. They certainly awaken my killer instinct!

I can't quite remember what slamat tidoer (or tidur as it is spelled now-a-days in bahassa) means again. I also remember slamat pagi and there was another one. One meant morning, the other evening and the afternoon I have forgotten. Have to ask mum when I ring her tonight, I can only get in touch with her at 6pm her time, when she has just finished her evening meal. Other times seem to be far more difficult. I do hope she soon gets out of that place and will have something to call her own. The problem is that you are wishing someone else to die to make room for her, horrible thought that!
Well, once again I am rambling on. Bye the way, the gamelan lessons are 拢6/hour, which are reasonable compared with most lessons, but it is not just for a few weeks. If I were to learn it I would need to do so for several years and I am not sure whether I can give that commitment, apart from having to be careful with the pennies, as they say. Besides, once my mum has settled in her new care home and feels happy, I will pick up my science studies again with the Open University. That will take a large lump of my spare time.
Well, in any case, I am looking forward to slamat makan tonight!
Take care
Rob

Message 22 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 12 July 2004 by ODYSSEY

Hello Rob.Happy birthday,but what date??Let me know.Slamat tidur is:wel te rusten of Lekker slapen(Beter).Yes, I did think about New Zealand. I met quite a few guys on the troop ship and they are more like the British than the Aussies.
But when my contract with the army had expired I was on the verge of marrying and to let my husband loose that good job he just started was not in the cards.And who would have thought that we would be kicked out??We have to thank Australia-the U.S and also Britain to thank for that.We were a small country and when they said:Jump ,there was no choice for us.I don't know whether your mam remembers anything about that time.We had a General Spoor who had beaten back the peloppors i.e. the Sukarno Communists: It wouldn't surprise me. The big brothers lost their colonies,so we were not allowed to have any either.And look what they got for it?Nothing but trouble.
Yes, we are very adapatable.I had to laugh about your guests expecting a High Tea.In a way it is nice that people are reserved,but one has to get used to it.Did you enjoy your Thai food?We like it here too.My oldest son and his wife live in Bend(Or.)I am going there with my granddaughter,Karina, at the end of this month.We celebrate our b'days also with going Thai.Love it.
Now I know what blue bottles are:the amount of bugs in corpses can tell how long ago a person died.And I think the blue bottles play a role in that as well.No b.b for me:I want to be cremated.
Nieuwe Haring:YUK YUK I detest anythig out of the water,but I am allergic to the critters out of the water Salt or Sweet WaterWhen my mother was here and we went out for dinner she always ordered Zeetong but said they do not know what it is:Tongue 脿 la meuni猫re.
Slamat pagi is :good morning.Slamat malam is :good evening.拢6/hr. for g. l essons is not cheap especially if you have to commit yourself for a long time.I cannot say that I am familiar with gamelan.I associate it with Lebaran:the indonesian New year where they all have to have new sepatoes but take them off after an hour walking in them. After our 6 months-paid leave-.I brought a small Hoover washing machine with us and if baboe tjoetji took a notion not to come in for whatever reason I was not stuck with a pile dirty clothes.I hope your mam gets out of that Nursing Home soon.It is so depressing. I.spent 5 weeks after that vicious dog attack in a Rehab and Nursing Home Center.I had a large private room and was not involved with Alzheimer pat's.Only when they got very noisy at nite I woke up.
Are you going to live in Holland for a while if you are going to the Open Universiteit?
When I got older a quieter life suited me.I am a very private person anyway and some peole I do not care to associate with.Snooty??I don't care to talk about koetjes en kalfjes and go around the neighboorhood visiting and drinking coffee.To each his own I suppose.
I would love to eat some Tai food, you made me hungry!!
I'll have to settle for a dadar?Remember that??Till our next visit.Greetings to your mam ok?Josephine.

Message 23 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 13 July 2004 by anak-bandung

Hello dear friend
My birthday was the 12th. I spent it nice and quietly playing on the computer and finding several relevant websites for archives both in the UK and Holland for my family tree search. Who am I kidding? tree? It has become more of a small wood with all these different branches entwining. You can't call the different branches incestuous, but it almost seems that way, so closely connected several different family names have become! Fun though looking all that up!
Loved the Thai food last night. We were the first in the restaurant, we had not been for quite a while one way or another, and after we chosen our dishes, the waiter asked whether we were sure we wanted both the noodle dishes (he is used to British stomachs I suppose). I assured him that I would manage my Pad Thai quite nicely, thank you, but could not vouch for Jack of course. He then told me to be sure to keep some room for the dessert for he had my special one for me: the sticky rice with a sort of bean paste inside (sort of salty-sweet taste, served with coconut milk, all on a pisangblad) I was gob-smacked, I had not expected him to remember that, for it is something which is not on the menu and the last time I had it he had given his own! Aah! Maybe that's why.
In a way it reminds me a bit of an Indonesian sweet my mum often use to make, it is totally different but has also that sweet and salty combination: made from coconut milk and guladjawa, bi-coloured: white and brown. The white tastes salty and the brown because of the guladjawa, of course sweet. I believe it was called Kweetalem or something like it!
Mum has just been taken to a pasar malem in Den Haag and bought herself a book there about her country. She still does not feel Dutch after all those years, and who can blame her?
Yes, my daughter could tell you a thing or two about blue bottles in corpses, although she is more geared to DNA and fire accelerants. I am very proud of her as she has just been commended for her work in a large profile case.
The zeetong reminded me of my father who always refused to eat ossentong, as someone else had it in his mouth before, as he claimed.
Thanks for the malayan lesson, I now remember the slamat malam, we used to sing these three greetings out when we walked along the lovely flower edged path in Bali where we stayed in '79,whenever we met some of the people who worked there.
I have saved all our correspondence and will take it over to Holland for my mum to read. I have already mentioned you to her and she was very interested.
Can you remmeber any other names when you lived there. I suppose it is a lot to ask, as you were only nine. You probably won't remember Toko Visser, the large bookstore. Her faher, Herman Elfring was a very tall man.
The Open University is a self-study university and I study from home and have regular tutorials in a nearby college. People all over the UK, also abroad, can study with them and they have a great variety of subjects. I just pick and choose for I am interested in many things, but my greatest fascination is how the brain works.
I am also a very private person, read a lot too. Don't much care talking about koetjes en kalfjes either. Both Jack and I are what you could call loners, we amuse ourselves quite happily. Love travelling, but are now sadly curtailed financially but we have seen a bit of the world, so am quite satisfied, but that does not mean I can't dream to travel to various places.
Dadar, that is what mam often makes when she wants something quick and easy. Aduh, lekker toch?
Time to finish again. Slamat pagi still!
Rob

Message 24 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 14 July 2004 by ODYSSEY

Slamat malam.we are kindred souls in our mental make up: loners,no koetjes en kalfjes.like to read etc.When you are in Holland go to a bookstore and ask whether they have a book":Tanah Air Kita":a book on Country and People of Indonesia by N.A.Douwes Dekker.
W. van Hoeve, Ltd.The Hague Netherlands-Bandung Indonesia.
It makes you homesick for the old Indonesia.Your mother will love it.The pictures are beautiful in black and white. The text we have is in English as we wanted our friends-the few really ones- to read it.So your husband can read it too..
I still leaf through it and I am gratefull to have lived in that country ,although the peloppor time prevented us from traveling where would have liked to.
Not till much later did we have more freedom to travel.The firm had a vacation home for the staff in Tr猫tes. Practically next to the house was a small graveyard.Margo was a christian,more a nanny,not a baboe.She went everywhere with us and I remember that she told my sons that there were"Momo's"(ghosts roaming at nite) and never to step on the graves.Correct?
We lived in Manado, Semarang and Djakarta of course. I visited Padang when my husband was there in the Army.He had a Pilot License and flew over the area to spot bombs that were pulled on a rope and then exploded
when dutch troops were on patrol.Just like they are doing in Irak now.
I have several books written in dutch like :Heren van de Thee" about tea plantations in the Preanger.I recently got it for my b'day.
I never had the sticky rice with the beanpaste ,but I do remember the "Ketan balletjes";sticky rice and inside gulah Djawa(lekker op flensjes!!).I don't remember the book toko, although my mother must have gone there.But I DO remember:Maison Bogarye" where we had icecream in those heavy "hotelsilver" ice cream dishes after we returned from :Rhytmishe Danslessen I still can taste it.I remember the smells from arang from trees they grow here too.The name escapes me right now.My oldest son also remembers different smells. I still can taste the tamarinde koekjes. That guy is a good business man remembering what you liked.I love gado gado from a warong in a pisang blad.The names I remeber are from people who were friends of my parents. I remember going to a Passar Malam in Bandung and getting glass pens with vitriolic coloured fluid in them:Gif groen and Hot Pink and Purple.That intrigued me.
I retired from nursing when I was past the retirement age here and really enjoy doing my own thing.I am never bored.Love music,reading, working in the yard altough my activities
after the dogattack really have been limited.I still have to walk with a cane and do weight exercises.
I am going to make a daddar,sit in my favourite chair and enjoy the memories we both still have.Let Hickory out,he is my Cairn Terrier and a real joy.Slamat tidur Rob.I'll put your b'date on the b'day calendar that we hang in the bathroom and any one who makes a visit can fill in his name etc.

Message 25 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 14 July 2004 by anak-bandung

Wed 14.07.04 Aduh seh, Jospehine, I remember reading 'Tanah Air Kita' at home - mum has had it for years. Yes, quite a nostalgic book. For my vicarious nostalgia, as unfortunately I do not remember the old times, but heard of course a lot from my mother.
Mam often talked about Maison Bogarije and their lovely things to eat. Mum used to buy me tamarinde whenever I had my period: was good for the blood, her baboe Una had told her.
She often went to the swimmingpool Tjihampelas, and actually met my father there in a painful way: she dived in, he was in the way.
Of course, being Dutch, you have a 'plee kalender'! When is your birthday? - I will put you on mine. People here are always surprised we have a plee kalender, but it is the best place in the house to have them and there is NEVER any excuse to forget someone's birthday!
Oh, it's time to prepare dinner, not sure what we are going to have. I hardly ever plan what to eat, raid the fridge and throw something together. I have some prawns, will make a stir-fry with sambal peteh.
You mentioned several times you have been attacked by a dog! How did that come about? Did that dog try and attack Hickory and you got bitten when you tried to separate them?
Must have been quite a shock and painful! Take care now
love, Rob

Message 26 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 14 July 2004 by ODYSSEY

Hello there,just came back from a boob sqeezejob(hope men don't read this)Everything neg.Had lunch and some desert:strawberry shortcake.Yum!
The dogstory:I always walked 2x /day:my survey walk to see whether it was safe to take H. outOn Sat.31st drizzle falling I went on my walk..A friend passed me in her car.We waved at each other.Suddenly I saw a big black dog being releasd from the second story of a house-notorious for bad dogs 脿nd kids-running down the outside stairs.he must have broken the gate and was on top of me taking a bite out of my forehead-it took 30 stitches to repair it-and pushed me on the street,This broke the neck of my L. femur; My friend saw this,turned around in the car,tried to chase the dog away with the help of a guy in another car.In the mean time the dog broke 2 bones in my R. hand,tore appr. 25 cm. in laceratios and several deep puncture wounds(dog bites are notorious for infecion) the dog tried to attack the daughter of the guy who tried to chase him away. All in all it was bedlam.i did not loose consciousness
have an MI or Stroke:I was in shock,a good thing:one does not feel the pain.An ambulance took me to the hospital 1o mi. away. I had 2 major surgeries in 24 hrs.
R. arm in "gips", 3 screws to repair my femur + a morfine pain pump wich made me hallucintate.
You are the only one who knows what happened.I'll tell you later what this has to do with my war stories.After the hospital stay I went to a Nurssing/Rehab center for 5 weeks where they had to teach me to do my normal things like walking etc.I had a beautifull private room and could have visitors around the clock,i did not really care for.
March 19 I came home with a wheelchair-i did not use- a Walker and later a Cane.The physical The Ph Th..lady came to my house to rehabilitate me more.- I had just started to write some stories about WW2 in Holland.You can read them by clicking on my pen name Odyssee if you want to.
One of the researchers read them and contacted me . I just told him that writing was good therapy after what happened with the dog. No specifics.I had quite a correspondence with him and a lot of help.
This guy quit after a stuck up guy questioned his war record. This nitwit is under 50 years and has never been in any war.Well dit muisje heeft een staart,a long one.
One day I might tell you . My son made my backyard escape proof as I could not walk H. any more.
I have not been on the street for a walk:I am scared for loose dogs as you can imagine. I was finally allowed to drive my car.Nothing is worse than having to depend on other people.I have to drive 6 miles to get a decent loaf of bread.My flowers,in short my yard was in shambles.I couldn't plant my sweet peas,burpless cukes, my lettuce and so.Slowly but surely I am getting the yard weed free: Good therapy. I have a guy to mow the yard,I always did this myself.So, this is what happened.The owner of that dog-he was destroyed by law -never apologised. My sons have an excellent lawyer.She has to pay all my bille and then some.- End of story.
Room soezen in Maison B.en Croqetten met mosterd. Swimming in Tjihampelas ! what a lot of shared memories: Tamarinde 脿nd de plee kalender-it makes a nice present, if one tells the people where to hang it My birthday is 25 th this month; a Leo and you a Cancer?
I usually cook nassi for 4 days, no problem heating it up in the micrw.With gravy (Knorr has good gravies!) since I cannot eat meat I have to make gravy that way;can add mushrooms etc to it and then in the summer with a big salad: klaar is Kees.Or a baked potato with veggies.I am not married to food and hate to cook since all the men are out of the house.
Pet猫h:stinkbonen but s贸贸 good and healthy. Do you use trassi in the nassi goreng?Talking about stinking.My husband loved ikan teri.
I am so glad that you have Tanah Air Kitah. We had it also years ago already.
It is 14.02 PDT now.I have to go outside with H. and a big glass Tonic-NO Gin- sit on the deck and think about all the things we discussed. Who ever would have thought that we found each other this way??

Message 27 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 14 July 2004 by ODYSSEY

Rob, the dogattack happened the31 st of Januari,Forgot to mention it.

Message 28 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 14 July 2004 by anak-bandung

wed 14/7 11.30pm
Josephine, aduh, kassian you! What a dreadful experience! Did I understand correctly, you had a stroke or something as well? I am aghast and appalled for you. Wished I could be there to give you a hand, bit too far for that. In thoughts a big hug instead.
Glad your big squeeze was ok. I have just had mine and they also gave me a clean bill of health after I had bc six years ago, also detected in time by the mammo. Wonderful invention that.
A short reply this time, I am bushed and have to be fit to meet relations (lots of them, some I have never yet met - great excitement!) first my sister and her husband, but in the next few days quite a few unknown cousins, some of them I have recently met by email.
Anyway, slamat tidoer to you. Ik ga boh-boh!
Rob

Message 29 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 15 July 2004 by anak-bandung

Thursday 15/7
Just a quicky to meet you when you wake up! I wanted you to <cheerup> and am sending you an armfull of @->--
love
Rob

Message 30 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 15 July 2004 by ODYSSEY

Thu. Rob ,you are sweet! No, I did not have a stroke or an MI-myocardial infarct,sorry for not explaining-.
These are side effects happening quite often to older people after a major insult to the body.Thanks for the Roses.
I will be healthy again-stubborn dutch!- but I have to be patient,something I have sometimes in short supply.
Yesterday I saw your questions to Peter and read all the different symbols.I have to keep returning back to the page since I don't have a printer.
I'll close this scribble so I can read your previous note about visitors??
It looks that the extra pages you mentioned have been removed.I mentioned the same thing to Peter.So he must have taken care of it.There is another way of making correctios without using "the arrow". Frank told me about it.It works like a charm .I'll relay it to you as soon as I find it.Love, josephine.

Message 31 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 15 July 2004 by anak-bandung

Fridaymorning, veeeery early: 41 mins past midnight - way past my beauty sleep. Beauty sleep, who am i kidding? Just back from my daughter and some other family members. Just popped in to say hallo.
No, the extra messages may have been removed from your side, but there are still 5 extra in mine. Never mind.
The weather here in the UK is atrocious. We have no summer at all. We are hoping to take our Dutch visitors punting (i.e. on a boat trip with a punter, the guy who moves the boat along like they do in Venice) on the river in Cambride. I only hope the weather will co-operate!
Well, slamat malam to you, must be about 4 o'clock - tea time, but slamat tidur from here.
<sleepy> Rob

Message 32 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 16 July 2004 by ODYSSEY

19.27PDT Rob,did you catch up on your sleep?Where do all these families come from you wrote about yesterday??
Where does your daughter live,must be in Holland?You must have just crossed the pond? to go and see her? I don't have much family left:on my husband's side all dead.My older sister died of esophageal ca.(terrible death)Her husband,a nice guy.an m.d is dead too.(.We did a lot "shoptalk"since I was a coronary care nurse, something they did not have yet in Holland.)The husband of my youngest sister & he were brothers. Nobody can just jump the pond to come and see me: too much soesah!
So,I am very much on my own,one gets used to that.
But I have a feeling that I have a lot of new friends since I srarted to write my warstories.You are # satu.
I wrote David a note and asked him a few questios.I also told him that I could'nt believe my eyes when I saw:"Anak Bandung".it was not a given of course that we would hit it off so well.
Are you familiar with Deepak Chopra??I read an article by him:"How to make the most of seemingly Random Events."We all experience coincidences, he believes they are profoundly meaningful. He calls them examples of "synchronicity" He was working in a lab of a very wellknown endocrinologist,Who was a ...(fill in a nasty word)One day this nasty guy said something really cruel.Deepak spotted the news paper open with a Wanted Ad.He had looked at that same ad. before ,but since his dream had been to work in this world renown lab, he ignored it,but when he saw it a second time he admitted to himself that this lab job was wrong.He applied for the emergency room position and discovered he Liked helping patients.
He says the world is full of synchronicity .One has to nurture this:How?:Learn to be still.He talks about meditation of course( gives some advice How to.)Also: train your senses.Explore coincidences;keep a journal about coincidences.Be open to new experiences and:Be gratefull: Think about all the things and people in your life to be grateful for.So true and important.
I am going to the library and see whether they have his book"Harnessing the infinite Power of Coincidece."
After this philosophycal "Talk", i am going to stop.When I wrote David that note I was going to try to put a Smiley face at the end:it is one with it's mouth wide open:meaning??Take care.It's my turn to go to sleep soon. The TV programs are worthless.I like ":Law and Order." and E.R, but they are all repeats. We have a few british comedies : irmembder off hand:"Are you being served?" and the one about that insufferable woman:Mrs.Bouk茅-as she pronounces it.:Snob!
Toodeloo.

Message 33 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 16 July 2004 by ODYSSEY

Hi Rob,Did you read Helen's note yet?
I found the message from Frank :"How to make corrections in one's STORY".I tried it on a previous written story by me.But this DOES NOT WORK ON MESSAGES.
So, the only way to correct something in your message is to click on the BACK ARROW(to the left of URL,) make a correction and then click "Post message". But I have an idea if you bring the message up 4x to make a correction and press:Post Message" again one gets 4x the corrected message.
If this is not so somebody will find my explanation and tell me:WRONG!"
But try it with one of the stories you wrote.
Busy entertaining your family??J.

Message 34 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 16 July 2004 by anak-bandung

Fri 16/7 21.20hrs
Well, sleep was far, probably had the lasagna cooked by my daughter too late (almost 10 at night). Feel rather bleary eyed <sleepy> |-I and would make a good zombie impression. Early turn in for me tonight!
Family: The daughter of my father's brother is getting married in UK. She is Dutch but settled with a Brit, divorved and met her future husband. Been with him for quite a while, lived in Cairo and now Amman (Jordania) and is getting married here. Other family members are coming from Vienna, Austria, various places in Holland. When mum and I arrived in Holland after the war, we lost touch with that side of the family, and only recently I got acquainted after my half-sister fell in love with my couisn, the son of my father's sister (are you still following?? I did say before my family is complicated). They married recently, so my cousin is now also my brother-in-law. He is one of eight siblings, now al with wifes, husbands and children.
You know the Dutch habit of kissing three times? Well, I have never kissed and been kissed so many times when my sister married and will again this Sunday when my cousin marries! I won't have any cheeks left! From my mother's side all my kin have died.
Tomorrow Cambridge, looks like in the rain. The wedding is hopefully sunny. I will report back later.
I have heard of Deepak Chopra. I have never tried TM, too many thoughts flitting from neuron to neuron, but I can see the use and benefit of being still and reflect. I have done some yoga in the past and found it beneficial - need to take that up again.
I am always open for new experiences, I think you are never too old to learn and appreciate things, besides it keeps you mentally fit. I will have a go in my library and see if I can find something of his.
I love reading thrillers and crimes. Kathy Reichs is one of my favourites, and Geoffrey Deaver. I am a sucker for SF - good ones, they must have a good scientific basis. A good novel I enjoy. As long as I can read I won't feel bored. If I feel poorly I may resort to a 'stuiverroman' but it does not really satisfy and I always wonder why I bothered. There are so many interesting things and the computer is also addictive, like this site for instance!!!!
Helen, my daughter, has a large kodok in her pond. Then to think I have eaten those in the camp! Maybe that's why I always liked them - to look at or to hold, I would not eat them now, though I have done once with a 'rijsttafel' out of curiosity, as I could not remember what they tasted like! (like chicken)
About the 'confused' issue and the repeats - I have given up and thanked Peter and Helen.
Better be off now. Been <online2long>
slamat tidur, Rob

Message 35 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 16 July 2004 by anak-bandung

Josephine,just a few minutes later. I forgot to tell you I have one daughter living near me, about an hour's drive - she works in forensics. Our youngest lives in Den Haag, done the exact same thing I did, went to the country to perfect the language, fell in love and she now has been living there for more than 4 years and is fluent in Dutch.
Tabeh for now, Rob

Message 36 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 17 July 2004 by ODYSSEY

Hi Rob,You don't like Kikkerbilletjes.?We ate them a lot when we lived in wherever on Java,or Sulawesi ,where the natives also eat tree rats with a lot of sambal.
I'll reread your letter with your family relations later:too complicated.It is21.00 ,since it is hot I am going to bed early:Either read or watch "Law & Order"Both make me fall asleep when it is warm.Hickory sleeps at the foot of my bed.He is such a good little dog and good company.
Helen asked whether we had resolved our problems with Repeat Letters, but we shouldn't worry about it.We were
just curious.I did tell you in a previous scribble how I thought it happened( you have to go back to a few ##'s -in our correspondence-.I better knyp af.I am starting to ramble.And then to think I was once a night owl. Even as a tiener on vacation from boarding school my aunt and I stayed up till all hours drinking little glasses with brandewyn and suiker.Memories!! I hope I never get Alzheimer.We better keep our gray cells working.D氓脿氓ag;Slamat tidoer! J.

Message 37 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 17 July 2004 by anak-bandung

Sat 17/7 slamat tidoer to you to. Just came back from our trip in Cambridge and had a nice punting trip on the river Cam. There were loads of tourists,and students too who were having their graduation day - so many gowns and mortar board hats and proud parents. It was such a nice armosphere and not a drop of rain in sight <magic>
O, I do love kikkerbilletjes, but no longer like to eat them as I have been told they are tastiest when they are cut from live frogs! That made me shudder, so I keep to chicken instead and just send them a small prayer to thank them for keeping me alive. I do have a fondness for the whole kodok, as an animal.
Tomorrow the 'bruiloft', must not forget to take my camera, need to eternalise all those new family members of mine! I am really looking forward to it. Also nice to be able to natter in Dutch, although I sometimes forget I do it, like today, I started chattering to my daughter's boyfriend, who looked at me glassy eyed till my daughter poked me in the side and hissed: 'English, mother!' How tolol can you get!
So you like a little nip, then? brandewijn met suiker indeed! Would you believe that MY tipple is Jim Beames? As a teener I used to drink cola tic, cola met jenever, and then we would discuss all things under the sun, very deep and profound we were, putting the world to right!
It's fun though, looking back, don't you think? Some memories can make you a little uncomfortable, but there are plenty to grin about <devil>!
slaap lekker, Rob

Message 38 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 17 July 2004 by ODYSSEY

O7.17-'04/16.30.Rob, dank voor je antwoord,although you are so busy with in-and out laws.No rain,you lucky duck.I never knew that you had to cut the billetjes from live frogs:Ykes! poor things.I don't eat meat as I'm allergic to it,so I don't miss it.My son,d.-in l. and grandd. arrived from Holland.I got them a bunch of anjers , a big chick/garlic etc pizza, 2 boxes of blueberries, a gallon of :"das blaue Wunder" alias No Fat Milk!-must be tasteless!,a good whole-wheatloaf of bread. One is pooped after such a long trip:all the way from Groningen to Schiphol and the +9 hrs, in a cattle car,alias economy class. And it is hot and sticky here,so cooking is not something one would like to do.And pizza alway tastes good.Connie-my d-in l. always makes me a veg .pizza, with lots of mushroomsbawang putih- and merah , artichoke hearts and what notfor my b'day.
No more brandewyn for me anymore:Can't get it here anyway.I like a glass of good sherry before dinner , a glass wine with dinner-if I don't have to drive that is.I don't want to land in ditch,- a "Dommetje" after dinner: No better life than a good life.
I hope you have a lot of fun tomorrow.I suppose your mum cannot come?.A pity.
You like Jim Beam???Yes, booze makes us want to discuss all kinds of interesting topics.We could heal all the troubles in the world if... they just would listen to us.Well, I think you are in Morpheus arms by now.DON'T forget your camera.Have Fun and till the next soerat.J.

Message 39 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 19 July 2004 by anak-bandung

Monday morning 19/7. Josphine. slamat pagi! Slightly champagned-over. The wedding was great, had lots of fun. Jack, ususally a retiring fellow, at one point of the evening somehow wore the flowery straw hat of my aunt's and that made his evening: several women thought he looked very Monet-like and got quite interested. That made HIS evening!
I made lots of pictures, met loads of family and we received an invitation to come to Vienna!
We are now just about to set off to my daughter's where I will stay for a couple of days to be company to my aunt, while her son and my sister go off together to York. We plan to visit a raptor centre and tomorrow a lovely garden. London was on the books as well, but as Helen lives out in the sticks and to enter London by car is a very expensive option now a sort of toll has been introduced to keep cars out, so we will have to take trains and buses as well,it would be a quite long and tiring business to get there. She is reasonably spritely but I am worried we are tiring her out far too much, as London equates with walking for miles - abd she just cannot do that anymore. The spirit is still there in abundance, but her flesh, or rather her bones, are protesting.
I don't think I will be able to go on line until wednesday. I will speak to you then again.
In the meantime, have a nice day with a glass of stroop soesoe or whatever.
Do you know I miss 'karnemelk' - you can't get that here in the UK.
Well, this was a very short soerat this time.
How are you healing? It takes a long time to recover, doesn't it, and especially the mental scars caused by this attack must be difficult. Take care for now, my friend. Until we speak again
Love, Rob @->--
p.s. did you know the Dutch call the @ sign een 'apestaartje'?

Message 40 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 19 July 2004 by ODYSSEY

Dear Rob,It is still the 19 th appr. 14.00 hrs. Thanks for writing after a hectic couple of days.You know my husband had the same retiring personality like yours.I still have a picture of him at a party with a straw hat and a cigarette dangling from it-trying to get at it I think-But he only behaved like that after some scotch got him going.
Boy, tou have quite a program to" work off".
Your family relations are hard to keep track of.I can see that getting your familytree in order will be hard work.
Yes, I read about the hefty amt.of money one has to pay to enter London by car.Isn't the reason to diminish pollutiom?
Karnemelk?.....Not for me.My mother loved it.I'm sure when you go to Holland you can get a culture to make it yourself.Your mam might know.
It is going to be in the 90's:I would love to sit on the deck with a glass Rozenstroop,/Vanille stroop. I loved to drink that Stroop soesoe??don't remember that.
I miss the fruits we had:The manggistans,the rambutans and the large mangga golek.Esspecially when it gets hot here.
Yes, I know the name "apenstaartje" , very appropiate I think.
I am in the same predicament like your Aunt: spirit willing but the old bones protest now,but were fine before the accident.It takes about 1/2 hr before they do what they are supposed to do after I get up.
Slamat djalan Rob. I'll be looking forward to your next stories.I am going to look for something like your rose
to finish a letter.It looks s贸 nice.Love J.

Message 41 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 21 July 2004 by anak-bandung

wed. 21/7 Back home again - Dear Josephine, done my 'djalan-djalan'. While my newly-wed sister and her husband sussed out York and surroundings, we took aunt out to the raptor centre, very interesting. We saw a young falcon doing his first flight, rather erraticly. The next day we went to see some nice gardens. She had hoped to go to London, but she needs quite some time getting ready, not helped by that she forgets what she is supposed to be doing and gets sidetracked. We cancelled London, as my daughter does not live near a station and things take a little too long. She had better come another time with one of her children and stay in a London hotel, then she is close by all the sightseeing stuff. Anyway, I think she enjoyed herself. Was upset though that Britain does not have any 'koffiemelk' and some instant coffeebrand you can only get in Holland.
I picked her brain for some more family details and got a few gems out of her. No great skeletons or any juicy stories unfortunately!
Was a little tearful saying goodbye to my sister. We have grown quite a bit closer of late since our dad died last April. When we were younger the age difference (6 1/2 years) was rather great, but it shrinks with age!
Must search Easyjet for a cheap flight again.
I am going to bed in a minute, glad to be sleeping in my own again.
The 'rose' can be done by typing @->.-- but omit the dot I have inserted. Without the dot you will get the rose
Slamat tidoer
Rob @->--

Message 42 - Your Mum's Stories

Posted on: 22 July 2004 by elviraberyl

Hello Rob.
No this isn't Josephine but she and I have been keeping in touch for a while. Lovely lady.
I hope you will forgive me but I started to read your correspondence with Josephine when I wanted to tell YOU about your stories. They were wonderful. We all seem to be in different places on the site... and looking around is so interesting.
I told Josephine I had enjoyed your Dutch memories and wanted to write to you, so, here I am.
Your Mum's memories are so vivid and moving. I had tears in my eyes more than once. What awful experiences. She must be a strong lady.
If only different nations and their people could meet on here. I'm sure we would understand each other and not just criticize. We have had enough of wars and fighting.
Sorry, this is a very depressing letter. I've just written to Peter on his thread with a very silly message.

Message 43 - Your Mum's Stories

Posted on: 22 July 2004 by elviraberyl

Rob
I seem to have run out of space in former note. I read it again... What a garbled piece of writing.
Anyway I'll leave you in peace.
Bye
Elvira

Message 44 - Your Mum's Stories

Posted on: 22 July 2004 by anak-bandung

Hi Elvira, just answered you actually under the 'nursing' heading of Josphine's tale, where I found you first. I then went on to see whether Jospehine had written any more messages here and found you!
Bye for now. Rob
p.s. I am glad you enjoyed my mum's stories. She is a plucky lady.

Message 45 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 23 July 2004 by ODYSSEY

Hello Rob,Glad you are back.It is amazing how little things like "koffie melk"can upset older people.
But first :I wrote a note to David how to find "who wrote what to whom".
I found a letter from Frank dated 14 April to you about the Queen and you returned a letter.Is Hans Gramps you grandfathet,?
I thought first that Frank had returned to the fold:no such luck.
I also found a letter from you as response to something I wrote.You talked about all the dumb paper work in hospitals right now.I answered you about that too.
I did not find your note -this one-till a few minutes ago.i wonder whether it would be a good idea if we dated our correspondance.Today is the 23 July..
I also found quite a conversation betweenB.P and the staff.He got his nose wiped and good too.
And then a letter from Elvira.She had trouble finding you
Where can I find the CousinAn story?
My youngest sister and have an age diff, of 8.5 years but that is erased when you get older.
I wonder whether the instant coffee brand is from Albert Heyn?Thanks for the" Rose" I wrote it down.
Till the next scribble.It is 10.30 hrs PDT. now.Coffee time!!What did they day way back when:Bloker's cacao time??Josephine.

Message 46 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 23 July 2004 by anak-bandung

23/7 Hi Josephine, the bad penny has returned. All our messages are in this post. They are put in batches of twenty: 1-20, 21-40, 41-60>> We are now in the last batch. You just have to click on the last one.
To find cousinann, you can either type that in the search slot, or her user ID number which is 520816. Or, if you have difficulties, go to my personal page and click on her in my 'friends' page.Unfortunately she has not replied to my message. Maybe she just wrote her story and that's it. The same with Gramp Hans, user ID 521277. I was curious when I saw the heading 'saving the queen' and then discovered Frank had replied. That triggered a memory of the Queen Wilhelmina I had. He is no relation of mine, just Dutch.
I have yet to hear from Elvira, but I expect she will.
The time 'PDT' is that morning or evening? Here in the UK we say for example 10 am (morning) or 10 pm (evening) - or to be precise 'pm' is between 12 noon and 11.59 at night. At the moment it is 6.36 pm and time to prepare a meal. Salad tonight, as it has been a hot day today!
When are you setting off for your break? Are you driving by yourself or do you have company? You did not say whether you have totally recovered now.
tabeh, Rob {{{}}}

Message 47 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 24 July 2004 by ODYSSEY

I FOUND YOU!! Dear Rob, I know about the different batches.But yesterday the 41-60 did not show up; that's what I wrote David too.Later it just popped up.:Heatsstroke??It was 35 C. here yesterday,but the humidity was low 29%,thus bearable.I found your notes to Elvira and vice versa.There must be a decent way to find each other.May be David has a solution.
I did type in cousinann in the search slot:nothing came up.I'll try with the ID #.
When I read the story about Q,W, and saw that it ws written by Frank,I wondered whether he had retturned to the fold:no such luck.PDT is :Pacific Daylight Time.We have several time zones in the US.The diff. between New Y. and us is:N.Y. is 3 hours later than we.
I know about the a.m and p.m.I used it in letters to you. It is terribly hot here too:yesterday it was between 32 and 35 C.Can't wait till fall with rain and storms.Ihad too much tropical heat . And here :no servants,so I just don't do all the silly house work.It will still be there when it gets cooler.Hang on:I am going to get a big glass djeroek sap,ice cold!!
My granddaughter and I fly to Bend (Or.)this coming Thursday..It takes only 45 min. flying time or at least 6 hrs.by car.I cut down on driving:the traffic is total insanity.I used to drive 5+hrs from Salem (Oregon) to my son here with 2 cats in the back in a travel cage and..... a revolver on the passenger seat.( My kids gave me shooting lessons so I wouldn't kill my self)There are too many nuts on the freeways.And seeing a revolver for everybody to see(That is the law)I hoped they would think twice before accosting me.
No, I have not completely recovered,I still have to use a cane when walking.Getting up in the morning is the pitts:It takes about 1/2 hour before my joints do what I want them to do.It will take time I was told.Plenty of that.But I miss my gardening and daily walks.Next year better,I hope.There are worse things in life.I could have cancer or some other terrible disease.Right??I am very healthy,that's what they told me in E.R.after the dogattack.I did not have any infections after the dog bites (and they are notorious for causing that.)I had 25 cm. tears in my R, arm and deeppuncture wounds. So it could very well have happened.
I am going to try and find cousinnann. Sometimes I think I spent way too much time reading all the war stories.But it makes me realise there were worse things than what I went trough.Do you talk to your mam on the phone?Give her my regards will you? Love,Josephine.

Message 48 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 24 July 2004 by anak-bandung

Sat 24/7 - Hello my friend. If you go to my personal page, you will find cousinann amongst my friends. You can pick her up from there, if you haven't found her yet.
Elvira came up with a good heading for us under which we can contact each other. I have started one to her, so if you pick that one up from my ww2 forum: 'Two tulips and a daffodil'. The two tulips are us Dutchies of course and the daffodil is the Welsh Elvira.
Scary thought that, Josphine, a revolver next to you on the car seat! Living in such a peaceful (relatively) country here, this is a mind-blowing idea! And this being the law as well! You still do that?
Have you read the story by Elizabeth yet? You can also pick that one up from my page. Very moving.
So long, see you perhaps later on the tulip and daffodil place! Dag hoor.
love
Rob

Message 49 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 27 July 2004 by ODYSSEY

July 26 16.50 PDT
Dear Rob, I just left you a note under' Bunch of roses"
I got stuck on the computer.the"arrow" wouldn't go any where.I got my old mouse out and th脿t worked.So now I am at your Page.
Still have to go to Elvira's Personal Page.
No, I don't drive anymore with a revolver next to me.It still is the law. I cut down on my driving:no more 5 or 6 hr. trips.That is why we fly to my son.
Yes, I did read E. story.It is so good that all these stories come out;most peopl don't have a clue what went on in occupied countries.The Japs had refined torture.The N.Koreans were worse.I think the 2 diff.races had a lot to do with the hate.
When we landed in Kemajoran from Australia we were shot at instantly by the "peloppors" Sukarnos's communist boys .
One thing I really detested was that the Japanese had to protect us in the Hospital.:Their obsequious bending and saluting every time we passed.
But we would have been" tjingtjangt" otherwise.
I worked in an 80 bed peds ward and those peloppors fired their guns from across the kali thru the -what was left- of the screens in the windows.
Hope you find this note and the other one Hope to find you in the "Two Tulips and a Daffodil'Place.Love,J.

Message 50 - From one anak Bandung to another!

Posted on: 27 July 2004 by anak-bandung

27/7 am - slamat malam - while I have been hammering the keys it has slowly crept into midday. It's fun this chat we three are having.Nice to chat to two kindred spirits, although this one (me) is the baby of the three of us!
We have a magazine here for over 50s, called 'Saga', a very nice magazine (I usually don't like magazines, they are not satisfying I find, but perhaps because this one is geared to the more mature people, it has interesting articles. They also have a site where you could meet like-minded people to 'chat' with on line and I had a search. A lot unfortunately are geared towards finding a companion rather then a penfriend. One guy baldly stated: I want a woman'. I blinked. Wat? Some wanted to write but could not spell for toffee, and I do not mean typos, real bad writing. One lady had me both feeling sad and giggle. She said she wanted to write to someone, for her husband is now retired and is only silent. She is desperate to talk to someone. Anyway, I think I rather talk to the two of you!
I am so glad you no longer have that gun visibly next to you. Surely, that must also incite to violence on the other person's part? This is one part of American culture I do not like.
Elizabeth just emailed me and sent me an article she has just read where it stated that the Japs were experimenting with cyanide on the POWs.
My mother and I were at least spared being attacked by the peloppers as we were repatriated so soon. I love to hear all the malayan words coming back. Mum used the word 'tjingtjangt' as well. Her favourite expletion was ' aduh seh, tai kutjing'
Hope your mouse did not look too deep into >-| and has recovered.
banyak terimmah kassi for the email address. Will send you one from anak_bandung email.
luv R @->--

Message 2 - Campo Makasur through the sewers

Posted on: 10 August 2004 by anak-bandung

10/8 - Hi CheerfulHelen, as you may have read in Nel's Story Part III, my mother and I were interned in Kampong Makassar on Java. My mother told me quite a few stories from that time and of course before that. I do remember her mentioning that she had gone outside the camp several times through the sewers to get drugs for the camp hospital. She certainly had good reason to do so as I nearly died several times from dysentery. Whether this was together with other women I don't know. Will have to ask her that. I am sure there were quite a few more brave women in that camp which housed approximately 3500 women and children. I think that seeing their children suffer, many a mother must have found that courage from somewhere. I also would have to ask her whether that was during our stay in Kampong Makassar or in the previous camps.
I do know that she was one of 16 women who protested in July 1945 (in Kampong Makassar)about the increasingly diminished and bad corvee rations (from 110 grams down to not more than 60 grams). The baking was done by a baker outside the camp. The camp leader was asked to request an audience with the Jap for them to present their complaint and many other women gathered around as a sign of solidarity. Unfortunately she took the request without an interpreter and the Jap thought this was the beginning of a rebellion and a two-day hunger day for the whole camp, including the hospital, began as a consequence, also with water supplies cut off where possible. The sixteen women, all from hut 14, were severely punished and maltreated. All the food was given to the pigs and also buried.
Do you happen the have her first name at all? Mum might recognise it.
I hope you post her story on this website. I will be very interested to read it - after all it is part of my heritance
Rob

Message 3 - Campo Makasur through the sewers

Posted on: 10 August 2004 by anak-bandung

Hello, anak-bandung again. My mother did not come from Tjihapit. She had already arrived in Kampong Makassar in March 1945 from Kota Paris and I believe two months later 1500 women and children arrived in K.M. from Tjihapit thereby swelling the numbers of internees to 3500. Despite the great numbers this lady and my mother Nel Halberstadt, nee Elfring may have known each other.

Message 4 - Campo Makasur through the sewers

Posted on: 17 August 2004 by cheerfulhelenb

Thank you very much for your reply about Makasur. When I next meet my contact who had been there, I will ask her permission to give you her name. As I am going away, I won't be able to do this until the end of September.

Message 5 - Campo Makasur through the sewers

Posted on: 10 September 2004 by jeannehuisman

my mother Jeanne van Leeuwen born April 3 1918, then married to Jacob Huisman, and their daughter Hetty (Agatja Jantje- born March 11 1941 Tjimahi)) were both in Tjihapit and Kampung Makassar.
Just this week we have started a webgroup.
It is a ngobrol group for Dutch-Indies people from all over the world. So come and have a look at ^{About links}

Join our ngobrol kumpulan!

Ineke

Message 6 - Campo Makasur through the sewers

Posted on: 10 September 2004 by anak-bandung

10/9 Hallo Ineke, slamat malem. I have just visited the 'blote kakkies' site and mosed around a bit to get the flavour. Clicked on the 'general' pinboard (can't use the Dutch version here: too rude for English eyes)and was curious to see the heading 'japse ervaringen van 大象传媒 site geplukt'. I must say I was very astonished to discover that it was the third contribution of my mother's experiences in the internee camp Kampong Makassar.
I have joined and passed the blotekakkies site on to two other Dutch women who are on the ww2 site as well. I am now waiting to be found acceptable by the powers that be!
Your sister and I differ about a year in age and may well have slithered together through the red mud. One of the other ladies here, rose-of-java also was in Kampong Makassar. We could start an esclusive KM group here!
From the information you have given here I assume you were born in Holland and your mother may have remarried, like my mother did.
By the way, did you read Nel's Story Part I and II as well?
Regards, Rob @->--

Message 7 - Campo Makasur through the sewers

Posted on: 10 September 2004 by rose-of-java

Hallo there, fellow Kampong Makassarians. Reading your stories. the first line of a song just popped up
In die brandgang, in die brangang
daar ontmoet je iedereen.

Do you know it? I also remember the first part of a song about trading with the people outside. It is in Malay (which I can neither speak nor write, so bear with me)

Dialogue

Tok,tok,tok
Sapah itu?
PBO buka pintu
Soedah boleh, appa belon?
Toengoe sebantar, ada Nipppon

Knock, knock
Who's there?
PBO (no idea. a rank? open the door
Is it possible, or not yet?
Wait a minute, there's a Jap

It is amazing what the stories on this site trigger. I haven't thought about these songs for ages.
Anak-bandung, the website you mentioned refuses to respond. I'll try again to-morrow.

Message 8 - Campo Makasur through the sewers

Posted on: 10 September 2004 by anak-bandung

rose, look at post 5 (see above) and thee is the 'blote kakkies' site. It has some interesting things on. Wait, I can send you a recommendation email and you can respond from there.
Liked your poem!
tabeh love, Rob @->--

Message 9 - Campo Makasur through the sewers

Posted on: 11 September 2004 by rose-of-java

Hi Rob
Just to make matters 120% clear: it is not my poem, but something that must have been sung so often that it was stored for more than 60 years.
Read it to your mum, she may start singing it.
This song has triggered some more musical memories: In Tjihapit a group of women gave performances for the children. I remember a Disney like blue fish, and a Cabaret number;
Tholen en van Lier (Tolen?)

It must have been right at the beginning, they wore tuxes. Not the sort of thing you drag with you in your one suitcase.

"Ik ben Tolen"
"En ik ben van Lier"
"Wij komen hier samen en maken veel plezier"

(I am Tolen, and I am van Lier. We have joined forces to amuse you)

I wonder if these songs were ever collected and published.
Thanks for the link Rose.

Message 10 - Campo Makasur through the sewers

Posted on: 11 September 2004 by anak-bandung

11/9 Rose, I have just sent mam a card enclosing the little song. Wonder whether she will remember it.
Rob XXX @->--

Message 11 - Campo Makasur through the sewers

Posted on: 17 November 2004 by thecheerfulhelenb

Dear anak-bandung
I am sincerely sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Unfortnately not a great deal to relate - my subject isn't familiar with any of those names - she said there were so many people in the camp it's hard to remember. I don't think she would like to have her story posted. Actually she's not very well at present.
Thank you for replying to my original message. I read these accounts of the camps with great interest.

Message 12 - Campo Makasur through the sewers

Posted on: 17 November 2004 by anak-bandung

17/11 Hello Cheerful Helen
As an aside: this is a nice pseudonym to use, it does not fail bringing a smile to one's face!
I can well imagine our names were not familiar to your contact; after all there were about 3500 women and children and it was not really the type of place where one did a lot of entertaining. I suspect that most of the time the women were very introspective or only focused on their immediate small nucleus.
I am sorry to hear that the lady in question is unwell and hope she will soon regain her sense of wellbeing again. If you speak to her again give her my best wishes.
Thanks for trying to connect us.
Regards, Rob @->--

Message 13 - Campo Makasur through the sewers

Posted on: 07 December 2004 by maryloulinaa

Oh, I wish I could read Dutch I found that site with so many messages. Is there a site like that where they speak English?
Maybe I will learn some Dutch if I meet with you all often enough?
Could the Japanese speak Dutch or did you all have to learn Japanese?
Mary Lou

Message 14 - Campo Makasur through the sewers

Posted on: 08 January 2005 by maryloulinaa

Are any of the ladies who were writing to me around today? Mary Lou

Message 15 - Campo Makasur through the sewers

Posted on: 11 January 2005 by anak-bandung

Mary Lou, you keep on popping up in the wrong places. Click on my name (anak-bandung) and you will get into my personal page. The scrol right down and find the 'return to the fold' title. If you click on the date there you will get on the message site we all use.
Hope you are keeping well. regards, Rob

Message 16 - Campo Makasur through the sewers

Posted on: 15 February 2005 by Lia's-Daughter

Hi Cheerful Helen!
My mother was at this camp, and used to tell me that she too would crawl through the sewers, sometimes to get food, other times to listen to the radio, and bring back news to the camp. Her name was Cecilia de Keijser. Unfortunately she died five years ago. Her own mother was Johanna Voorzanger, formerly de Keijser. I wonder if any of your contacts knew the family?!
Lia's Daughter

Message 17 - Campo Makasur through the sewers

Posted on: 16 February 2005 by anak-bandung

Hello Lia's daughter
I will visit my mother again in a few week's time and will ask her whether she knew a Cecilia de Keijser or a Johanna Voorzanger (de Keijser). Her memory is not so good any more and as there were about 3500 women and children in that camp, you probably would only know those in your own hut. We were in hut 14. I'm not quite sure how many women and children were housed in the hut, but I believe it was somewhere over 150.
regards, anak-bandung

Message 18 - Campo Makasur through the sewers

Posted on: 16 February 2005 by anak-bandung

Hello lagain, Lia's daughter,
If you click on my name (anak-bandung) at the beginning of this post, you will get into my personal page and you will be able to pick up my mother's memories of how the war started and how she, with me, survived the camps, of which Kampong Makassar was the worst. It will give you some idea what your mum and 'oma' must have gone through. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask.
If you are on my personal page, you might also like to visit some of my friends mentioned there. For instance, Rose-of-Java was also in Kampong Makassar and she was seven years older than me, so experienced it consciously, unlike me who was born in 1942 and can not remember anything, only have one recurring dream that points to the camp.
regards, Rob (anak-bandung)

Message 19 - Campo Makasur through the sewers

Posted on: 16 February 2005 by Lia's-Daughter

Hi Anak-Bandung, and thanks for he swift reply! I never realised there were so many in the camp. From programmes on tv and films, where they focus on just a few women, the camps looked so much smaller. I have no idea which hut my mother was in, though her sister, Beppie, is still alive, so I will ask her.
Thanks again,
Lia's Daughter

Message 20 - Campo Makasur through the sewers

Posted on: 16 February 2005 by Lia's-Daughter

Thanks Rob, I will do that. My mum did tell me a lot about her experiences, but nothing about the camp in general. There's some powerful, moving stuff in these pages.
Best wishes
Sally (Lia's daughter)

Message 21 - Campo Makasur through the sewers

Posted on: 03 April 2005 by thecheerfulhelenb

Sorry about the delay in replying. I'll check with my contact re Cecilia de Keijser. I know she used to go through the sewers with four other Dutch women. All the others were single, I think.
The reason I got involved with this World War 11 story was that I was writing a play based on the true life experiences of three women during the war:
the Dutch woman who was interned in Java
a German woman who grew up in Germany during the rise of Hitler
an Australian woman who was in the Australian women's Army.
I took oral histories from the women then wrote the play, which was staged last month in Perth W Australia.
The Dutch woman came to the last performance (she is 88 and in a nursing home), as did the other three women. It was very emotional when the actors presented them with flowers afterwards ie the one who played the Dutch woman presented to Dutch woman and so on.
I'd been so busy directing the play, that's why I didn't see your message till today.
thecheerfulhelenb

Message 22 - Campo Makasur through the sewers

Posted on: 04 April 2005 by anak-bandung

Dear Helen
Congratulations on your play! Hope it will be very successfull. Nice that the women concerned were able to attend as well.
regards, Rob@->--

Message 2 - Kampong Makassar through the sewers

Posted on: 25 June 2005 by anak-bandung

Hi Oebiwal
My mistake. Thanks for pointing this out! By the way, I am not Nel. That was my mother who I was talking about and I mentioned actually the wrong camp, where she went through the sewers. We started off in Kare毛s in Bandoeng and it was there she did this to collect medication for me and other sick children. I nearly died several times having severe dysentery.
Do you originally come from Bandoeng or were you transported to one of the camps in Tjimahi from somewhere else? Kare毛s was of course not the only part that was fenced off and made into a ghetto. Unfortunately, or should I say fortunately, I was too little to remember anything. I was born there in 1942 and we were the first ones to be repatriated to Holland in December 1945, arriving on the first of Jan in '46.
I will go and have a look at your site in a second. Hope yo hear from you some time.
Regards, Rob

Message 3 - Kampong Makassar through the sewers

Posted on: 25 June 2005 by anak-bandung

Hi Oebiwal
Back again. I just visited your personal page and see that you would like to know the gate in Kampong Makassar. If you go to www.japanseburgerkampen.nl/Kampong_Makassar you will find amongst other things a small map of the camp with the layout of the barracks and the gate. This was originally taken from the book 'Japanse burgerkampen in Nederlands-Indie'by H. Beekhuis.

On the same site there are other camps mentioned and some have maps as well.

When were you repatriated?

Regards, Rob (female, despite the name)@->--

Message 4 - Kampong Makassar through the sewers

Posted on: 26 June 2005 by oebiwal

Hallo Anak Bandung

Thanks for your reaction on the subject of the layout and location of Kampong Makassar internment camp. Up to date I did not find the precise location,place and sizes of the camps housing compound perimeter and its outside gardens. The same goes for the internal layout of the of the housing area.

The best effort thus far was undertaken by H.A.M.Liesker et al. See: Geillustreerde Atlas van de Japanse Kampen in Nederlands-Indie 1942-1945. Deel II. Earlier efforts by Liesker (et al),from before 2002, were , however, far off the right track. Unfortunately, publications on the camp prior to 2002 used often these wrong data on location andd layout. The improved sketches by Liesker are, however, still not showing the exactness and details of the situation as it was.

I am trying to reconstruct as much as possible the exact location and layout. Unfortunately so far I could not find aireal photos for elucidation. It is therefor that I, as a first start, asked for the exact place of the main gate. With a few more pegs I might be able to improve on the Liesker sketches.

Thanks for your advice and hear from you. Regards, Oebiwal

Message 5 - Kampong Makassar through the sewers

Posted on: 26 June 2005 by oebiwal

Hallo (2) Rob

Since my father was an officer in the KNIL, we had to slog it out through Bersiap and first Police Action. After a prolonged stay of three months in Kampong Makassar, we stayed in Bandoeng, Balikpapan and Batavia. From the latter place we repatriated in June 1948 to The Netherlans, where we initially, for some months, were living in the house of my grandparents in Oosterwolde.

I also just joined ''opblotekakkies'' and there I intruduced myself in Dutch. You might have a look there as well.

Regards, Oebiwal.

Message 6 - Kampong Makassar through the sewers

Posted on: 26 June 2005 by anak-bandung

Hallo Oebiwal
I am also a member of Opblotekakkies, Voorvaderenopblotekakkies, Indieinformatiepunt and Onderdewaringin. My name there is anak-karees1 (somehow it did not want to accept the name I use here!). One seems to bump into the same names on all these sites, which all have someting different to offer. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of time to spend visiting them. I dip in so now and then.
Did you stay in Holland or are you, like me, an ex-patriat twice over? I grew up in Utrecht but married a Brit and now live in the UK (39 years!) Thanks to Easyjet I often jump across.
Are you contemplating to write a book about your experiences?
Regards for now, Rob

Message 7 - Kampong Makassar through the sewers

Posted on: 27 June 2005 by oebiwal

Hi anak-bandung,

Thanks for your swift reply.

No, I did not repatriate for a second time. I went to the HBS, militairy service and agricultural university in The Netherlands. I studied 'Tropical crop production and irrigation'. I worked for the UN, the Dutch Government and private firms in many countries in Africa and Asia ( a.o. in Indonesia). Since my retirement sixs years ago I live in the countryside in Friesland. About four months per year I spend abroad, often visiting the places I worked.

Yes, at present I try to put my story on paper at the request of my three children. And that story includes my boyhood years in NI. Hence my remarks and questions in this forum, in order to try to get the picture as exact as possible. On certain matters there are gaps in the knowledge of the camps and these can not be retrieved from the existing literature or institutions. For example, there is hardly any info on my first internment camp 'Baros-Willemstraat' in Tjimahi and ,my question in this forum, concerning location and layout of Kampong Makassar. I hope to get some of my questions answered by a two-way info exchange via the internet: I know this and you know that.

Best regards, Oebi

Message 8 - Kampong Makassar through the sewers

Posted on: 27 June 2005 by anak-bandung

Hi Oebi
Someone told me long ago that Kampong Makassar no longer exists, but whether this is true I cannot say. I have been back once, in 1979, together with my mother and visited our place of birth, Bandoeng, but as we were part of a package deal we did not linger too long and went on by bus towards Jogjakarta and then on to Bali. Unfortunately there was no opportunity to see whether we could find the camp and at that time I don't think my mother was mentally prepared to do so. Strangely, then I was more interested in the country and the people itself then in my past. I am quite annoyed with myself that I did not pay more attention then.

Next month I will be in Holland again to visit my mother and will endeavour to jog her memory re the outlay of the camp. Maybe she will remember certain things, though I can't guarantee it for her memory is starting to fail. There is also the question whether a picture of the map may jog her memory of whether she will say that this is how it was.

It must be this urge to establish exactly where our roots are and our background, once we reach a certain age. We are getting more interested in our own past and begin to be busy with genealogie and our children starting to get to an age as well where they are becoming more curious.
I am also still full of questions and am hoping to fill in many gaps in the story she has been telling me,though there is always the fear in the back of my mind that I may upset her too much. I suppose I have to pick my moments.

Which Baros camp were you exactly? My uncle was transported to Baros 6 when all the boys over a certain age had to leave Kare毛s. As you ended up in Kampong Makassar this must mean that you avoided being put on boys' transportation?

Although it must be very painful to think back to that time and what had happened to you there, being able to put it down on paper must bring some closure in your mind. It must have mentally scarred those children who consciously lived through that period and also after during the bersiap time, although you may not have realised that at the time. I suppose I am lucky that I was so very young and have absolutely no memory of it all. Though, looking at myself, there are still symptoms I could say stem from that period: insecurity, the urge to please those in authority, fear of the unknown and a recurring nightmare, to name a few.

Anyway, I will ask around and see whether I can come up with some more information.

Regards, Rob

Message 9 - Kampong Makassar through the sewers

Posted on: 28 June 2005 by oebiwal

Hi Rob,

Thanks for your often moving observations and your intentions mentioned in your last reply.

First let me try to answer your questions. Kampong Makassar (KM), the internment camp, was dismanteled around 1953. On the grounds of KM we now find a rather chaotic complex of a new police hospital, the 19th century mansion in which our Japanese guards were housed and a hotchpotch of houses, huts and warungs. For more info please see my reply to rose-of-java on my pp.

Your mother might be in a position to answer the still pending questions of
many ex KM-internees, like:
-where was garden 3
-where was the main gate
-where were the inside and outside office huts of the ladies who were our campheads
-the compass direction of the barracks
-the road and passways around KM
I think you ought to be careful and non-pressing in questioning your mother. To ask directly the questions that I pose, i.e. KM layout and exact in-situ location, could be too much and could shy her off.

Concerning the women/children camp Baros-Willemstraat. This internment camp, also known as Baros I, was our first camp. It was located in the southern end of Tjimahi. As a w/c camp it was used from Dec.'42 to Jul.'44. Afterwards boys and men were interned in this camp. There is substantial info on the b/m period, but strangely hardly anything on the foregoing women/children period. Hence my question. I turned ten on 19/8/45 and therefore narrowly escaped being sent to a camp for 'men'.

Regards, Oebi

Message 10 - Kampong Makassar through the sewers

Posted on: 29 June 2005 by anak-bandung

Dear Oebi

Have you read Ko Luijkx鈥檚 book 鈥楬et verbuffende kamp鈥�, published in 1945? Here she tells about her experiences in Kampong Makassar. My mother has a copy but I think it is no longer available unless they reprint all those books, written so long ago, for this occasion now it is 60 years ago! I translated it so it would be easier for my two daughters to read.

She seemed to have written it reasonably objectively and talks for instance about the camp leadership. She has not mentioned the two women concerned by name, only their initials, although, from the 鈥榡apanseburgerkampen鈥� we now know Mevrouw W. was Mevrouw M. Witvoet. She handled the general camp business, but the latter, a Mrs. P.S. (British apparently by the way she called them 鈥楳evrouw鈥� and 鈥楳rs.鈥�) was the executive administrator of the Japanese food department and consequently controlled the kitchen, bakery, the 鈥榯oko鈥� and the 鈥榞udang鈥� (storage place). Apparently, both ladies came from the infamous camp Tjideng and Ko feels that was why they were governed by fear and had never known any different than to execute the orders of the Jap with the most haste as possible, for they had learned from personal experience that, with the slight resistance of 1 person, the whole camp was punished severely and often maltreated. Mevrouw Witvoet鈥檚 advice was that as long the women did 鈥榯enko鈥� and 鈥榢eirei鈥� deeply to the Jap鈥檚 satisfaction, they would notice little of the Japs.
In Ko Luijkx鈥檚 book, Mrs S. however came for much criticism. She is accused of failing to supervise the food supply and this gave rise to disgraceful bartering of food that should have been distributed amongst the women. Also the leadership was not united harmoniously.

Whatever, I expect their duties can鈥檛 have been easy and like other people in authority, will always be criticised. I also expect that a person who is responsible for distributing the food will be hated unequivocally.

She also mentions the gardens but unfortunately not in as much detail regarding as to their location as you would want to. Garden 1 was around the pig sties, garden 2 was situated behind hut 14 (where we were housed), at the highest part of the camp, which part was always suffering from shortage of water. Watering was dependent on the hut's cess pit and the 'water' left over from the morning's ablutions. This garden was also scorching hot for there was hardly any shadow to be had. Garden 3 had a few trees casting shadow and was only separated from the outside world by a 鈥榢ali鈥�, also the garden's water supply. At the other side of that water was the outside world the natives could be seen going on with their business.
Apparently gardens 2 and 3 were very 鈥榣aku鈥� (in demand) because you had the opportunity there to trade the little you had for some eggs, fruit or tobacco. I expect that by that time you were quite adept in doing that too!
Garden 4 was inside the camp, adjacent to the tenko area.

That鈥檚 all the information I know so far, Oebi. Next month I shall ask my mother what she can remember. The first question being whether she is comfortable in answering my questions. I feel I must ask her face to face. This is essential for reading her body language and facial expressions. Asking all this over the telephone is just not an option.

By the way, that was an auspicious day to celebrate your 10th birthday: 19th August!
Regards, Rob @->--

Message 11 - Kampong Makassar through the sewers

Posted on: 29 June 2005 by oebiwal

Hallo Rob,

Thank you for your reply. As I can see from your other messages on this and other forums, you are really doing a good job to try and grasp the stories ,feelings and querries of fellow persons hit by that terrible war, and also a good job in trying to bring the story of your mother Nel and your own.

Rob, during the last decade I collected almost all the existing books and other documentation on the internment camp where I was with my mother and smaller sister, i.e. Baros I, Bloemenkamp, Tjihapit and Kampong Makassar. The book by Ko Luijckx (Het Verbluffende Kamp)is by far the best, most elucidating and objective publication that exists today on KM. The book is still available in antiquariats. The KJJB has ideas to reprint the book and distribute it to schools as historical literature.

For me it is therefore not that I need facts and data that are already
available in presentday documentation or at the institutions dealing with the subject. No I am only looking for some specific info that might only be available by my fellow camp sufferers or by sources that I am not aware of. That specific info is needed to give my story as much as possible historic and factual body.

That is the reason why I posed specific questions in my pp. And I can be of help to many who do not have such a substantial data base or who do not have vivid memories any more.

Rose, you will be surprised how much, for you interesting info, there is at the libraries of NIOD, COGIS, Indisch Huis and other institutions in The Netherlands. We all like to grasp as much info as we can, and hope in this way to answer our astonishing question: can we still streighten out our distorted youth?

Thanks again, keep it up and regards.
Oebi.

Message 12 - Kampong Makassar through the sewers

Posted on: 01 July 2005 by anak-bandung

Hello Oebi
It looks as if you are well organised and have loads of info at hand. If I can mange to get something from my mother that may be of interest to yoy, I will pass it on.
Good luck and regards,Rob