Home Logic - October 2024
We contacted Home Logic and it said that it has made every effort to ensure that its customers and clients are never let down. Over the past 10 years, it said it has consistently stayed up to date with the latest installation methods for all the products it offers, in line with its numerous installer accreditations and certifications.
It said that currently every method of install for Spray foam installation is compliant as per PCA protocol (March 23) and HSE modelling (April 24) using BS5250:2021 management of moisture in buildings guidance. It said that since 2014, it has consistently installed spray foam in accordance with the most up-to-date guidance, certifications, and installer surveillance programs provided by BBA and KIWA BDA
However it went onto say that it has no control over the decisions made by third parties, which are currently causing significant frustration and negative impacts on consumers, and its business, its 20 thousand spray foam insulation customers and the 150 staff members who work daily at Home Logic.
It said that the current issue with spray foam insulation began in 2022 when surveyors were held liable by lenders in situations where borrowing was requested. It said the challenge arises when spray foam insulation is installed in the roof pitch, making it difficult for surveyors to determine whether it was applied to conceal structural issues or solely for insulation purposes. It said that understandably, this uncertainty has made surveyors hesitant to approve installations for lenders, as doing so could jeopardize their own indemnity insurance.
Home Logic acknowledged the position taken by surveyors, which is aligned with guidance previously released by their professional bodies. In the past, spray foam nsulation has been used as a roof restoration product. However, while it may extend the life of a damaged roof, it does not repair it. Home Logic believes it is important for new homeowners to be informed about this. It went on that some companies have reportedly used the product to conceal existing problems, and incorrect application or use of unsuitable products has been known to cause further damage. It said this is why the PCA inspection protocol, introduced in March 2023, was implemented - to address these issues.
It continued that in mid to late 2022, a group of stakeholders, including the Government's Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities (DLUHC), surveyor institutions and associations, certification bodies, manufacturers, lenders, and consumer groups, collaborated to create guidance aimed at addressing the concerns raised by surveyors and lenders. The goal was to ensure that, when spray foam installations were done correctly, lending could continue without fear of liability or recourse. All parties contributed and approved this guidance to provide clarity and reassurance.In March 2023 a professional persons Inspection Protocol was released by PCA (Property care association) after 6 months of discussions, this was passed and agreed as framework by all stakeholders. This was then the professional approved guidance for surveyors and lenders when spray foam products where installed.
Home Logic said that since March 2023, it has conducted all necessary checks prior to any sale, providing customers with documentation and evidence in line with the PCA inspection protocol. According to this protocol, Home Logic installations should be considered low risk.
It continued that in April 24 HSE brought out modelling on insulated pitch roofs when spray foam was installed, they used 2 UK postcodes with different locations, modelling different types of insulation methods for spray foam insulation with no named product used, this was simply computer-generated location modelling to establish the level of risks associated when spray foam is installed. They used the supported installation methods by current manufacturers of their product, this method of installation has been recommended and approved by agreement certification issuers BBA or KIWA BDA depending on what product type was used. It has been argued that, in some cases, the installation methods recommended by certification bodies such as BBA or KIWA could lead to condensation or long-term wood damage. The risk is typically higher when the spray foam is installed directly onto high-resistance (HR) roof coverings. These modelling scenarios were not product specific but were conducted on different types of spray foam insulation products. It was specific to spray foam products Open/Closed cell fitted with direct application to HR, LR, Sarking boards like is recommended within BBA, KIWA product agrement certificates.
Then the same modelling was done with a 25mm ventilation card and/or VCL covering to comply with BS5250:2021 management of moisture in buildings. Home Logic says it was obvious when BS5250:2021 was considered, on all occasions installing Spray foam insulation was low risk. When installing direct to HR roof covering without a 25mm vent card or VCL the risk was high on most scenarios within UK. Home Logic says this was based on computer-generated modelling, not real-life scenarios. Home Logic says that many manufacturers argue that the modelling was inaccurate or that the product did not perform as predicted by the models and that manufacturers have also pointed to a lack of product education as a contributing factor, which is true in some cases.
As a business, Home Logic says it accepted the findings of the modelling, despite it being theoretical, and took proactive steps. Together with members of the IMA (Insulation Manufacturers Association) spray foam committee, Home Logic says it initiated a remedial action program to prevent potential issues. This program is available for all Home Logic installations, following an on-site inspection, if required under warranty.
Home Logic says that all manufacturers’/ distributors of spray foam, who are members of IMA spray foam committee, also signed up to this course of action , this is readily available for all consumers who have spray foam installed. Some manufacturers’/ distributors will charge for this service.
When this modelling was published, some third parties treated it as updated guidance and widely publicized it, leading to increased confusion and concern in the marketplace. Home Logic says that this unfortunately set back months of progress it had made toward improving lending conditions.
Home Logic continued that many rogue traders posing as removal companies took advantage of the situation, using it as an opportunity to attract business.
The Government and HSE then issued letters requesting that the PCA inspection protocol be the only approved guidance used until further modelling, results and tests were completed , these are to be released later in the year from HSE.
Home Logic continues that PCA the issuers of the PCA inspection protocol, Chair of the PCA protocol released in March 2023 brought out an online article after HSE publication of modelling. See below link
In April 24 after viewing the HSE modelling Home Logic says it decided to implement the introduction of Vent cards or/and VCL as standard when HR covering was present even though this was not required under the KIWA BDA product agrement certificate when a hygrothermal/condensation risk report was conducted.
Home Logic says that recently the original PCA protocol stakeholders’ participants from 22/23 have reformed and started a new round of meetings, they are reviewing the released PCA inspection protocol from March 23, making amendments in line with HSE modelling BS5250:2021 management of moisture in buildings.
Logic Foam Ltd, the sister company of Home Logic UK Ltd, is an active member of the IMA spray foam working group and participates in select PCA stakeholder meetings. In this role, Home Logic says it provides input as a manufacturer and distributor of spray foam insulation products, contributing to discussions on proposed changes. Home Logic assumed this position to ensure its remains up to date and aligned with current guidelines as they evolve.
Head of compliance for Home logic, Leah Vella is also a Director of IMA (Insulation Manufacture Association) , this enables Home logic to be current at all times. The revised PCA inspection protocol for professionals is due to be re-released Early 2025 with amendments.
Home Logic continued that the PCA is set to release new guidance for consumers soon, which aims to provide reassurance for those unsure of what to do when spray foam has been installed in their home. This guidance is expected to be available within the next month and will offer valuable information for consumers facing limited options or uncertainty.
Home Logic says that ninety-five percent of spray foam installation companies that were in operation two years ago have now closed and ceased trading, leaving consumers without protection or support. This issue is critical, and the necessary measures are in the final stages of approval.
Home Logic says it strongly denys any claims that we are letting our customers down. This is simply not the case with Home Logic customers. Despite the challenging times, Home Logic says it remains open, up-to-date, and fully operational. It says it is here to assist and support our customers on a daily basis.
Home Logic says that as a business and industry need support of what is happening in the background, it is trying to find a solution for all consumers who have had spray foam insulation installed within their home in the last 10 years. It says that as a business it is doing everything as per this guidance as agreed in the PCA inspection protocol by all stakeholders March 23.
Home Logic says it is a family business and is as frustrated as its customers, 18 months on and it says it is still talking about problems with Lending . This was and should have been resolved with the publication of the PCA inspection protocol in March 23.
Home Logic says it would like to emphasize that it is currently seeing lenders approve financing when surveyors adhere to the PCA inspection protocol.
Home Logic says that the main problem seems to exist for consumers who have no paperwork with evidence, in that they can’t satisfy the PCA inspection protocol for Surveyors to sign off. Home Logic would suggest anyone struggling to contact Manufacturer of product used.
Since 2014, Home Logic says it has been approved under multiple certifications for pitched roof installations with recognized accreditations. It says it can provide documentation proving compliance with regulations at the time of installation. Home logic says that over the past 10 years, installation methods have evolved, and that it has consistently stayed current and up to date with industry standards.
Home Logic says that it can only attend appointments arranged from inbound enquiries for Spray foam insulation, and that it does not cold call.
Home Logic says that as a business since early 2022 it has displayed warnings regarding Mortgages on its main website. It says it also display warnings on all adverts, Contract of purchase, Brochures, social media and Website landing pages.
Home Logic goes onto say that although it now follows the PCA and HSE best practices for installation, over the past 10 years, it has encountered no cases of internal wood damage caused by low-density open-cell spray foam. It says it has seen many claims from third parties suggesting potential damage, often framed as possibilities—'it could happen' or 'it might happen'—but without certainty. Home Logic says that during its remedial inspections, it has found these claims to be unfounded. Home Logic says that in 10 years, no real cases of internal damage from open-cell spray foam have been presented to Home Logic. Home Logic says that it acknowledges that the product may have been incorrectly installed, and in those instances, that it took responsibility and corrected the issue under warranty. It says that as a business, its understands that mistakes can happen, though thankfully not often, and that it believes it's how mistakes are handles that truly defines them.
Home Logic continues that regardless of Spray foam insulation, it is a fact all types of insulation regardless of product installed in the loft will be damp at certain times of the year.
Open cell foam is vapour moisture permeable, when wet in winter months will dry out easily once the temperature rises. This can be shown easily on a hygrothermal condensation evaluation report. Home Logic says it supplies this to every customer and that it uses the latest technology and does not install in high risk areas. Home Logic says that currently rip out / removal companies are making false claims to consumers by saying their roof is damaged to gain business of removal.
Home Logic says that as a business it has had to put a warning on its website to warn people . It says that currently it is receiving lots of calls from worried customers. It says that in the event a legacy install has excess moisture it can solve this with more ventilation or by installing a VCL and that it finds negative effects rarely caused by open cell spray foam insulation.
Home Logic says that in most cases there is no need to remove spray foam insulation as demonstrated by this link:
Home Logic says that as a business it follows the current guidance, if the product is installed as per PCA protocol using BS5250:2021 management of moisture within buildings, HSE modelling guidance, the installation should be considered low risk and that lending should be available.
Home Logic says that some lenders may require a Chartered surveyor to view installation for confirmation using the PCA inspection protocol, and that it is in support of this as good practice and that this is also currently a proposal for the updated PCA inspection protocol 2025.
Home Logic says that spray foam is a widely used, endorsed, and approved insulation product in many countries around the world, and in some regions, it holds the largest market share for insulation. At a time when reducing homeowners' energy usage is a priority, it’s worth considering why this product isn’t more widely supported in the UK. The Government did endorse spray foam insulation through the Green Homes Grant from 2020-2022, but unfortunately, that support has not continued due to ongoing concerns related to lending
Home Logic says that as a business it is under lots of pressure to remain open, firstly to protect the 20 thousand Home Logic customers with Spray foam insulation installed , secondly so all Home Logic employees livelihoods remain in place. It says it prides itself on bringing high quality products to UK homes at affordable and competitive prices.
Home Logic says it acknowledges that there are ongoing issues within the spray foam market that need to be addressed. The framework established by the PCA does not assist consumers with legacy installations, particularly when the original installation company is no longer in business. This has left many consumers unable to secure lending, as they are unable to provide the necessary documentation required for surveyors to make an informed decision under the PCA inspection protocol. This is a significant problem, leaving tens of thousands of homeowners in a state of uncertainty.
Home Logic say that this is not the case with Homelogic, who say they are open, able to supply paperwork compliant to guidelines at time of installation, in most cases in line with PCA inspection protocol released March 23.
Home Logic does say that it is not in control of 3
parties or other installation companies who are working outside of the agreed PCA inspection protocol established by all stakeholders.
Home logic is keen to stress that it does not carry out any cold calling, and that all our multiple product enquiries are generated from inbound advertising via online channels or Building renovation shows.
Home Logic says that the starting price for 1m2 of Spray Foam is £118 . It says that it sells to retail customers, so this is total price with all costs included for 1m2 installed professionally by 2 highly trained operatives onsite with high end equipment. The cost per m2 reduces dependent on size of project.
Home Logic says that the costs associated with Spray foam installations has more than doubled in the last 18 months due to extra costs required to meet PCA inspection protocol guidelines, and that this has also increased again, since Home logic as standard is installing as per HSE modelling BS5250:2021 Management of moisture in buildings.
In the last 24 months Home Logic says it has invested over £400,000 in company research, training and development , it has had to build bespoke software within hardware which did not exist prior for mobile usage, this enables us to install at low risk every time without risk, whilst supplying pre-purchase documents with evidence to every customer as per PCA inspection protocol 23 prior to purchase. Home Logic says it believes it is the only spray foam installer UK wide to have this facility to offer.
Home Logic goes onto say that financially as a business it has lost more than £1 million pounds since April 1st 2024 largely caused by change of market place within the spray foam industry, and that it has remained open to honour its warranties, guarantees for all home improvements it sells.
It says it has continued in the belief despite huge losses, that in time the PCA inspection protocol will be followed by all stakeholders. Spray foam insulation would then recover becoming the accepted product like in most other countries. Home Logic says that this is the reason 95% of spray foam installation companies operating pre PCA inspection protocol and HSE modelling have now closed. Home Logic says that it believes the Spray foam marketplace is destroyed by negative press and will take many years to recover.
Home logic says it is committed to staying open, honouring its commitments to its clients, our 20 thousand Spray foam insulation customers, and staff. As a business it has over 30 thousand Home improvement product installations UK wide. All have warranties guarantees valid today.
In regard to Mr Hepburn it says that Home Logic agreed to a full refund after reviewing the complaint, order and circumstances, Mrs Hepburn decided to have the product remain in situ with a full refund, we then issued a full warranty pack complaint to PCA inspection protocol.
Home Logic says that if Mrs Hepburn is now requesting for the product to be removed, it would be happy to remove if required.
Home Logic says that Mr Hepburn signed a 14-day cancelation waiver notice which enables Home Logic to carry out works prior to the 14 days finishing. Home Logic says it takes this approach to ensure its installation team remains actively engaged. Home Logic says this does not affect the customers cancelation rights; and that the cancelation was requested within 14 days.
Home Logic says it offers various discounts which are valid for a period as per terms and conditions of contract. Home Logic says that the customer was issued at point of signing all documents, brochures by email.
After Watchdog got in touch Home Logic says it carried out extra training for its salesperson on identifying vulnerability , the salesperson-maintained Mr Hepburn was of older age but did not perceive him as vulnerable. It is common for retired people to contact us for Home improvements.
In regard to Mrs. Judd Home Logic says that in 2022 it carried out a documentary with Tim Shaw on spray foam insulation which it published on Youtube, and that it heavily promoted and advertised across all social media channels regarding the pros and cons of spray foam. Home Logic says that at no point has it ever hidden the issues surrounding spray foam and that it has been committed to being transparent and finding a solution.
Home Logic continued that when Mrs Judd contacted it in 2023 the PCA inspection protocol had been approved by stakeholders, and that it believed this was approved guidance to follow so the consumer was protected, and that it as a business had no reason to be concerned. It says it implemented this mythology into its daily business with confidence.
Home Logic says that the PCA inspection protocol was put in place to enable surveyors valuers to make impartial decisions from evidence without fear that the install had been done incorrectly or to mask roof defects. E.g. - was it installed to fix a defective roof or as an insulation product as described?
Home Logic says that as a business it is guided by current released framework guidance. It says it is confident it is compliant to all guidance currently available.
Home Logic continued that Mrs Judd contacted it in 2024 and it supplied paperwork and evidence as per the PCA inspection protocol and that this install should have been considered low risk.
It says that unfortunately the lender used by Mrs Judd, had at this point stopped lending when spray foam was installed. Home Logic says that it introduced Mrs Judd to a mortgage advisor who said he could help but this would involve another lender. Home Logic says that Mrs. Juss refused this because they wanted to remain with current lender.
Home Logic says that it believes it is out of its control if 3
parties are working outside of the PCA inspection protocol agreed by stakeholders March 23.
Home Logic describes the process of Mr. Hebpurn’s installation as follows:
Mr Hepburn contacted us to get a quote for additional insulation and it recorded the floor insulation at 150mm. Mr Hepburn indicated he wanted the work done straight away by agreeing to Waiver, please note this waiver did not affect Mr Hepburn cancelation rights or the ability to get advice.
Home Logic says it carried out a hygrothermal condensation report which passed when ventilation was added , the comments on the report with 150mm on floor are:
Interstitial condensation is not predicted to occur before a ventilated layer. Any condensation predicted outside of a ventilated layer should be disregarded.
Home Logic says it supplied at point of sale a brochure with alternative products so Mr Hepburn could compare in own time. When Mr Hepburn met Home logic for a quote for spray foam insulation Home Logic says it explained Spray foam is a premium product which is a higher purchase cost against traditional types of insulation.
In regard to Mrs Judd’s installation Home Logic says that at the time of purchase there was no reason to believe the house would return a nil valuation from lenders appointed surveyor. Home Logic says that as a business it has followed all guidance available at time of installation, have supplied updated paperwork with evidence compliant to current PCA inspection protocol to remedy the situation, Home Logic says that unfortunately it does not control 3
parties who act outside of the PCA inspection protocol.
In regard to our secret filming Home Logic says that the quoted price was the standard list price without any current discounts applied. After applying the available discounts, the price was reduced to £3,950, and that their salesperson determines which discounts are offered. Due to the current market conditions surrounding spray foam, there are times when larger discounts may be offered to attract business
Home Logic continues that the pricing provided by NIA is outdated and does not account for the additional training, equipment, and software development necessary since the implementation of the PCA inspection protocol. Home Logic says its software alone costs £100k annually to maintain, allowing Home Logic to generate Hydrothermal/Condensation reports on-site before a customer’s purchase. Home Logic says that this ensures it assesses the product’s suitability for each home, and that it will not proceed with installation if the report identifies any risks. Home logic says that these costs have unfortunately been passed back on to the consumer. Homelogic says it is an approved pitched roof installer under NIA , Logic Foam ltd is an approved manufacture of Spray foam products within NIA.
Home Logic says it is installing its product in accordance with PCA, HSE, and BS5250:2021 guidelines for managing moisture in buildings. Under the approved PCA inspection protocol, Home Logic says that the installation is considered low risk. Home Logic says that according to HSE modelling and PCA guidance, when the product is installed following BS5250:2021 standards, it is deemed low risk. Home Logic says that stakeholders supported the introduction of the PCA inspection protocol, and if compliance is met in all areas, lending should remain accessible.
Home logic says it is also unable to confirm if someones unique personal lending ability will accept additional lending. Home Logic says that its obligation as a business is to make sure every install is compliant to the current PCA inspection protocol framework.
Home Logic says that the customer made direct contact by phone, asking for a quote for spray foam insulation, not to add standard wool insulation to floor.
Home Logic admits that if there was already 220mm of insulation on the floor, a more cost-effective option would have been to add 100mm and that the salesperson could have responded by asking why additional insulation was needed, as the existing amount seemed sufficient, and whether there were plans to board the loft. Home Logic makes clear that it does not sell floor insulation; and that its literature does show alternative products to advise what’s available to consumers.
Home Logic admits that Spray foam alone will not reduce energy bills by 40%, but says that it can contribute to lowering energy costs when combined with other energy-saving measures. Home Logic says that the hygrothermal report indicated improved thermal performance after installation. When used alongside other energy-saving products, achieving a 40% reduction in energy usage is possible, but not with a single product alone. Home Logic wishes to clarify that if the salesperson stated otherwise, then it acknowledges that this could be considered misleading.
Home Logic says that is is disappointed to learn that the salesperson advised the customer not to seek advice from a third party and that it believes encouraging third-party consultation is a good practice. Home Logic says that the discounts offered remain valid, whether the purchase is made on the same day or not. Home Logic says that this situation is concerning for it, as it views this sales approach as high-pressure, which it does not support and that such behaviour is unacceptable.
Home Logic says it has installation teams based across the country, and to reduce costs, it aims to group installations together. It says that this scheduling may fall within or outside the 14-day cooling-off period, but that it does not affect the customer's right to cancel and that this is simply a cost-saving measure for Home Logic.
Home Logic says that the claim that the salesperson indicated a condensation percentage of 20% is concerning and that the product cannot be installed if the condensation level is higher than 20% as per KIWA BDA product agrement certificate, and speculates that this is maybe what he meant.
Home Logic says that the provided Hygrothermal report and pre-installation report, completed at the point of sale by the salesperson, indicate a reading of 4%, not 20%. It says it can verify this with data transfer timestamps if necessary. Home Logic continues that the documents generated on the tablet during the appointment indicate a 4% reading and that it would not be aware if the salesperson had provided misleading information.
Home Logic continues that when installed correctly, spray foam insulation can help improve a building's EPC rating, and all guidance suggests that a higher EPC rating can add value to a property. It continues that, an EPC cannot be improved by a single product alone and that it requires a combination of energy-saving measures. Home Logic says that if a claim was made that spray foam alone can enhance an EPC rating, this is inaccurate. Our brochures clearly state that a combination of products is needed to achieve this improvement.
Home Logic says that the salesperson kicking away present insulation to see what the make-up of 220mm is unprofessional and certainly frowned upon and that it finds this behaviour unacceptable.
Home Logic says that under the Hygrothermal / Condensation report produced on the day, the floor insulation needed reducing to 100mm, it was then low risk when pitched roof insulation was installed.
Home Logic says that the said salesperson has worked as a self-employed salesman for Home Logic a number of years, and that it has no reason to believe from past conduct that he has acted out of character. Home Logic says that it is now concerned, and it will stop any further sales appointments for said salesperson.
Home Logic says that said salesperson has never been a training manager but that for a short period last year he was a team leader for sales in the field and that all training is conducted from head office at Southampton with approved trainers inhouse.
Home Logic says that as a business, it has worked tirelessly to remain open during challenging times, and that is is fully committed to upholding its customers' warranties and guarantees without compromise.
It says that as a business it has invested heavily in training, equipment, and software to protect the consumer, believing with the introduction of the PCA inspection protocol March 23 would offer much needed protection to the consumer in their decision of installing spray foam insulation within their home without fear.
Home Logic says it has always acted in good faith, believing the introduction of the PCA inspection protocol established, created, and approved by stakeholders (Government, Surveyor associations and institutions, Lenders, Product Accreditation issuers BBA KIWA, Manufacturers, Insulation bodies and consumer groups) would protect the consumer, enabling customers to arrange lending when installed correctly and that this was the guidance released, approved by all stakeholders within the PCA inspection protocol March 23.
Home Logic says that as a business it has implemented HSE modelling BS5250:2021 guidance in to all our installs since May 24 for added peace of mind and that this is not a requirement under present PCA inspection protocol released March 23.
Home Logic says that Watchdog’s report and ongoing issues for consumers, Home Logic has made the decision to immediately cease all marketing, sales, and installation of spray foam products and that this suspension will remain in place until the updated PCA inspection protocol is released in 2025, after which it will review.
Home Logic says that as a business it will continue to warrant and guarantee all 20 thousand spray foam installations, completing any remedial works under warranty , updating when required all warranty paperwork to be compliant with guidelines at time of install, in most cases updating paperwork with evidence compliant with current PCA inspection protocol released March 23.
Home Logic says that this is a very sad day for its business as a whole.
Home Logic says that it believes that if the PCA inspection protocol, introduced 18 months ago, had been consistently followed by all stakeholders, the current issues around lending for consumers would be diminishing rather than becoming more prominent.
Home Logic also says that it advises any Home Logic customer having issues regarding lending to contact Home logic so it can update their warranty pack in line with guidelines at time of installation, and if possible update to current PCA inspection protocol 23 standards. Home Logic says it stands by the fact there is no reason to remove perfectly good well installed spray foam insulation.
Home Logic says that removal of spray foam should be the last resort for all consumers and that currently there is no recognised framework for removal of spray foam insulation and that on occasions removal can cause more damage, unlike Spray foam insulation methods which are highly regulated. Removal should be the last resort.
You can watch the VT here on iPlayer for 28 days - /iplayer/episode/m0024gr9/the-one-show-30102024
